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Wild Horses/Mustangs

Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 03:23 AM

I have a question I am hoping someone may know the answer to about Mustangs. The Free roaming horse and burro act of 1971 defines free roaming horses and burros as

"(b) "wild free-roaming horses and burros" means all unbranded and unclaimed horses
and burros on public lands of the United States; "

Does that mean any mustang/burro who wanders onto private land could be captured legally? Or is there other laws that protect them?
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 03:28 AM

Don't know but...Interesting
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 03:30 AM

I would think on your own land once it was branded it would be yours.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 03:38 AM

I just found this reading the act

"If wild free-roaming horses or burros stray from public lands onto privately owned land,
the owners of such land may inform the nearest Federal marshal or agent of the Secretary,
who shall arrange to have the animals removed. In no event shall such wild free-roaming
horses and burros be destroyed except by the agents of the Secretary. Nothing in this
section shall be construed to prohibit a private landowner from maintaining wild freeroaming horses or burros on his private lands, or lands leased from the Government, if he
does so in a manner that protects them from harassment, and if the animals were not
willfully removed or enticed from the public lands"

Reading the act further I have found several places were the BLM is acting outside the law regarding horses. For example

"(C) The Secretary shall cause additional excess wild free-roaming horses and
burros for which an adoption demand by qualified individuals does not exist to be
destroyed in the most humane and cost efficient manner possible. "

The fact we are paying people $1,000 dollars a year to take a horse or burro and feeding tens of thousands more on the public dime is ridiculous.

I asked the original question because one of my life goals is to catch and train a wild horse, dont really want to "catch" one at the BLM holding facility.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 03:47 AM

You could always try one the reservations and see if they would let you catch a tribal horse.

My suggestion is start with one from a corral first, i can guarantee they are plenty wild . Congress has included a budget rider since 1971 saying no appropriated funds can be used to destroy healthy wild horses.

Also just like any other animal if the government claims it as wild it has protection under the act on federal lands or off. It maybe trespassing but its still protected on private ground

Just out of curiosity how would you go about catching a wild horse if you had the opportunity?
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by nvwrangler
You could always try one the reservations and see if they would let you catch a tribal horse.

My suggestion is start with one from a corral first, i can guarantee they are plenty wild . Congress has included a budget rider since 1971 saying no appropriated funds can be used to destroy healthy wild horses.

Just out of curiosity how would you go about catching a wild horse if you had the opportunity?


I have only trained two horses myself, one of them being pretty feral but I understand not the same. For whatever reason I have wanted to do this since I was a kid and now I am 30 and have the means to do it. I will probably Adopt one in the near future, I mean heck why not they pay you $1,000 to do it now.

As far as catching one, ill be honest I have a couple ideas in my head but it would be a stretch to say I had any real feasible plan at this point.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by nvwrangler
You could always try one the reservations and see if they would let you catch a tribal horse.

My suggestion is start with one from a corral first, i can guarantee they are plenty wild . Congress has included a budget rider since 1971 saying no appropriated funds can be used to destroy healthy wild horses.

Just out of curiosity how would you go about catching a wild horse if you had the opportunity?


I have only trained two horses myself, one of them being pretty feral but I understand not the same. For whatever reason I have wanted to do this since I was a kid and now I am 30 and have the means to do it. I will probably Adopt one in the near future, I mean heck why not they pay you $1,000 to do it now.

As far as catching one, ill be honest I have a couple ideas in my head but it would be a stretch to say I had any real feasible plan at this point.



If you want a truly wild one let me know ill help you get your wish how about a 5 year old freash cut stud? Any wild horse if feral no native horses to north America.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by nvwrangler



If you want a truly wild one let me know ill help you get your wish how about a 5 year old freash cut stud? Any wild horse if feral no native horses to north America.

Thanks! An interesting fact about horses is that they evolved in North America originally then traveled to Asia through the land bridge before becoming extinct in North America for whatever reason. I really feel like horses belong here, I just dislike the emotional management of them.

I appreciate the offer of the stud but I am not quite ready, need to upgrade my fences to make sure they dont go over. I trained a QH/blegian this fall, beautiful 6 year old mare who was a total bronc, I didnt know horses could throw a rider so high until I got on her the first time. After a couple months with her we were getting along well, she was becoming quite the saddle horse. Then she did a total horse move and pulled a tendon in the pasture so she is just a big pasture ornament at this point, needs a year to heal then light riding only, sending her to the next auction regretfully.
Posted By: CajunMan

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:06 AM

I just watched a show last weekend called Wild Horse, Wild Ride. Pretty good show about 100 trainers who get100 wild mustangs and have 100 days to break and train them. At the end of the 100 days they are all entered into a competition and afterwards are auctioned to the highest bidder. Most all were turned into some really nice horses at the end of the 100 days and went for some big money
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by CajunMan
I just watched a show last weekend called Wild Horse, Wild Ride. Pretty good show about 100 trainers who get100 wild mustangs and have 100 days to break and train them. At the end of the 100 days they are all entered into a competition and afterwards are auctioned to the highest bidder. Most all were turned into some really nice horses at the end of the 100 days and went for some big money



They ended up with about 75 or 80 horses that showed up to compete and only 25 to 30 had a reall good handle on them. Most of those in that event were 4 and 5 year old geldings that had been in the corrals for at least 2 years and were hand picked for size and temperament. They had an event a couple years ago and those had only been in a corral for 4 months way less showed up to compete.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:20 AM

Cool Thread
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by nvwrangler



They ended up with about 75 or 80 horses that showed up to compete and only 25 to 30 had a reall good handle on them. Most of those in that event were 4 and 5 year old geldings that had been in the corrals for at least 2 years and were hand picked for size and temperament. They had an event a couple years ago and those had only been in a corral for 4 months way less showed up to compete.


Do you find the Geldings are better to work with than the mares? I have started looking at horses in the BLM corrals online and it does seem difficult to find one with size, hard to get an idea of temperament from a quick video on the internet as well.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:25 AM

Ive had both geldings and mares , as long as i can do my job that day ive no preference. Each one is different when starting different things are harder to get past for each one.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:27 AM

Donner pm sent
Posted By: star flakes

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:51 AM

No you can not go out and catch your horses, as they are your property, but it is a racket.

For a bit of history and advice.

These are not mustangs. These are crossbred horses of American horses which escaped and interbred with the "mustangs". The Indian horses were so horrid that Col. Charles Askins used to shoot them for his pack of hounds back in the day. The best purpose for them was then pet food companies rounded them up and killed them for food.

My friend and his father who was a deputy sheriff, obtained 3 of these things. They literally climbed the walls of the barn, they never could do anything with them, and eventually sold them, which meant they were slaughtered. I strongly suggest that you look online as there were sites in people who attempt to train these animals. They built wood holding stalls higher than they could jump out of for starters. One guy had a castrated old stud, and the only way they could do anything with him, was the wood chute as that is the only place the animal would feel secure. The cattle out west are going "mad" because wolves and mountain lions are driving them that way. These mustangs are hunted by large predators and survive by being this wild. I read of a gal in Montana who had a "pet" curly stud, who one day decided to do what studs do and bit her hand, crushing it.

Most of these horses are small and inferior. If you read the history of the way Indians broke these animals in George Catlans journals, they would run these animals to ground, meaning exhaustion. Once they had them down, they would breathe into their nostrils, get on them and ride them to more exhaustion. It does not seem humane, any more than the other method of shooting them in the neck with muzzleloaders to stun them, but that is what Catlin wrote of, and mentioned a Comanche chief who was riding a stud horse, a Spanish bit had it bleeding from the mouth, and he had Mexican spurs on, and would jam them in, the horse would go wild, the chief would laugh and gallop across the plains. All that makes a person cringe now, but that is the history of this animal. They ate cottonwood bark and were abused.

There is a very good book by an American trainer that is free online from the 1800's. He had a method of roping and throwing horses to train them. There is a difference between training, gentling and breaking a horse. I have trained horses and while there are exceptions to the rule, I would advise not dealing with these animals. Teddy Roosevelt in his Ranchman and the Hunting Trail gave some statistics in if he purchased 20 horses, about 15 would either try to kill you, continue to buck or run off. He had two good horses on his ranch, one was too small and the other was an Indian trained horse he called Manitou.

If you are still wanting to do this, get your health insurance paid up, never trust that animal and never forget it was wild. You may get the 1 out of 1000 in a suitable horse. I hope it turns out for you, but there is a reason the federals had orders that people could not sell these animals, and that was because no one could handle them, and there is reason they are trying to sucker people into taking these horses, as no one wants them from past experience.
If you are looking for something to give you problems, just buy a Poco Bueno descendant, as my neighbor has one which bucked off his 70 year old dad and broke his shoulder, and I have a red roan who has attitude like a woman scorned. That is from the Quarterhorse line of race horses.

Lastly, quality hay is 35 dollars for grass and over 100 for alfalfa. 500 dollar from the government disappears fast and the 500 dollars for keeping that mustang past the first year in a second payment disappears as fast and the key word from the BLM is THE LIFETIME OF THE HORSE. What are you going to do if you have to keep that animal for 20 years, it turns out it is dangerous to people, and you have the BLM and Humane checking on you, inquiring why you are abusing that horse having it locked up all the time, because it keeps tearing through fences and you can't catch it.
There is nothing free in life and 18 years of feed at 500 dollars a year is 8000 dollars, plus the insurance if you mustang gets loose and hurts someone.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bureau...-you-1000-to-adopt-a-mustang-wild-horse/


So BLM did some simple math: Rather than pay $2,000 to care for a mustang for one year, they'll pay $1,000 to someone willing to adopt and care for a mustang over its lifetime.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:59 AM

Star most of what you wrote is false but to each his own. My comments are all based on first hand knowledge not old journals and hearsay.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 05:08 AM

I have a mare currently who is a decendant of poco, she is a total doll, alotta stereotypes do not hold true. As far as keeping a horse for it's lifetime, once you have it for a year you get the title to it and it's yours to do with as you please as long as you don't sell it for slaughter.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
I have a mare currently who is a decendant of poco, she is a total doll, alotta stereotypes do not hold true. As far as keeping a horse for it's lifetime, once you have it for a year you get the title to it and it's yours to do with as you please as long as you don't sell it for slaughter.



Partly correct once you have title after 1 year for an adopted horse you can do any with it you want including slaughter. You can not purchase a sale authority horse with the intention of slaughtering or transferring it to someone with the intention of slaughter.

My 23 year old daughter has started numerous poco breed horses and mustang's with no issues its all about knowing what and how to start and gentle horses.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 05:21 AM

If anyone likes this type of stuff and wants to watch some good history shows about how cowboying developed look up the " vaqueros" series by j&s movie

Great watching
Posted By: Allan Minear

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 05:43 AM

A friend of mine and I took his two mustangs elk hunting riding them all over the mtns they like any other animal had their quirks but they loaded up in the trailer well and hauled just as good .
Our Border Patrol uses mustangs to patrol our borders with mustangs in the hard to reach area's for motorized vehicles.

I've seen some of the adoption mustangs that were part draft horses with hooves as big as dinner plates , if I remember correctly a enclosed horse trailer is mandatory to pick up your mustang .

I wish you well on getting one personally I'd want a stud horse or a gelding have all mares or geldings have both and it's going to be a freight train wreck ha ha

Allan
Posted By: west river rogue

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by nvwrangler
You could always try one the reservations and see if they would let you catch a tribal horse.

My suggestion is start with one from a corral first, i can guarantee they are plenty wild . Congress has included a budget rider since 1971 saying no appropriated funds can be used to destroy healthy wild horses.

Just out of curiosity how would you go about catching a wild horse if you had the opportunity?


I have only trained two horses myself, one of them being pretty feral but I understand not the same. For whatever reason I have wanted to do this since I was a kid and now I am 30 and have the means to do it. I will probably Adopt one in the near future, I mean heck why not they pay you $1,000 to do it now.

As far as catching one, ill be honest I have a couple ideas in my head but it would be a stretch to say I had any real feasible plan at this point.
I had 3 for 20 yrs from the red desert in wyoming(rock springs)they were truly wild..they wouldnt even touch grain etc. I rode the mare in barrel races, Turned out to be good horses after about 2 yrs. Many of them really need a pro to put the first rides on.
I trained these using gentle methods as you cant bully them,they know how to fight. When I adopted them in 1989 they didnt pay you(you paid them) an adoption fee. They lived a full life here.
Posted By: danvee

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 07:03 AM

As much difference in horses as there is in a coyote from Saskatchewan and one from Florida there is a reason they have bred dogs, captive fox, cattle and yep horses. Look before you leap
Posted By: NvHermit

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 01:15 PM

I think there needs to be a season for wild horses
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by nvwrangler
Star most of what you wrote is false but to each his own. My comments are all based on first hand knowledge not old journals and hearsay.

I was thinking ....a whole lot of Conjecture there.
Posted By: TreedaBlackdog

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 01:34 PM

Only the Fed Govt would pay someone to take care of feral animals and pay millions to eradicate feral animals. I agree with Steve Rinella - do cows and horses not damage more land than feral hogs? It is all in ones perspective.
Posted By: MJM

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by NvHermit
I think there needs to be a season for wild horses

X2
Posted By: nightlife

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by nvwrangler
You could always try one the reservations and see if they would let you catch a tribal horse.

My suggestion is start with one from a corral first, i can guarantee they are plenty wild . Congress has included a budget rider since 1971 saying no appropriated funds can be used to destroy healthy wild horses.

Just out of curiosity how would you go about catching a wild horse if you had the opportunity?


I have only trained two horses myself, one of them being pretty feral but I understand not the same. For whatever reason I have wanted to do this since I was a kid and now I am 30 and have the means to do it. I will probably Adopt one in the near future, I mean heck why not they pay you $1,000 to do it now.

As far as catching one, ill be honest I have a couple ideas in my head but it would be a stretch to say I had any real feasible plan at this point.


Yes f going the adoption route try to get a yearling, or younger, believe me unless you have delt with wild horses you have little idea just how much of a training problem they are

And you will need solid fencing ie wood or metal to hold them in at least 6 feet to be safe
Posted By: west river rogue

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 02:27 PM

Depends on you as a horseman,had mine gentled within a month.....they would spin and fire those back feet in a heartbeat. I had native lumber corral 2.5 inch by 8 inch boards about 8 ft high...they would run right thru and over a metal gate.
Once gentled,they liked tame living.
trained 2 of them as stallions to ride because wild horses I discovered have a quirk(i believe to stop inbreeding)they drop one testicle then second doesnt drop until about 3 yrs old.
Regardless they are semi proud cut.
My youngest grew to 16 hands and showed thoroughbred lines.
Posted By: Leftlane

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
I have a mare currently who is a decendant of poco, she is a total doll, alotta stereotypes do not hold true.


This is true, I've ridden some Hancock and even Skipper W stock that was quiet, gentle and hard working w/o the drama but back in the feedyard we all rode outside horses and the mustangs that showed up could be serious handfuls.

If your mind is made up fine, if you are looking for my advice I would say get some more experience in the round pen before you step up to a wild animal and I say this for their sake as much as I do your own.
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 02:53 PM

Just watch Man from snowy river.You will be all set then grin
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by danvee
As much difference in horses as there is in a coyote from Saskatchewan and one from Florida there is a reason they have bred dogs, captive fox, cattle and yep horses. Look before you leap

X2
Originally Posted by MJM
Originally Posted by NvHermit
I think there needs to be a season for wild horses

X2

X3
They are feral horses not wild horses
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 03:51 PM

Some people grow up dreaming of a dall sheep hunt, it makes no sense really, it is expensive and dangerous and in the end you just get sheep (if your lucky)

Some people grow up dreaming of a Grizz hunt, again makes no sense when you really boil it down to the inputs and outputs

I grew up dreaming of catching and training a wild horse, even if it all went perfectly it doesnt make much sense, horses are not worth much and it would take a ton of inputs.

In all three of these scenarios it is not about the end game, its about the journey and if at the end you do have a nice "trophy" that is just a bonus.

I have started preparations on accomplishing my goal, I trained two horses so far and have begun constructing better fencing. Turns out building 6 foot board fences is outrageously expensive and a ton of work.
Posted By: west river rogue

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:12 PM

it will take a GREAT fence!!! When I adopted mine they came and checked it.
Posted By: 3togo

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:12 PM

I think NvHermit has the right answer.
I have hunted Wyoming for the last 23 years, last year being the most recent. First time I saw feral horses out there. A little research when I got home indicated that the population increases 20% per year. How long can that go on without more severely impacting native wildlife.
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:15 PM

Horses aren't worth much if they aren't good horses but truly good horses are higher than they have ever been. Good finished geldings $8000 and up. I know people that regularly sell there horse in 5 figures . Trouble is most people dont know what a good finished horse is there for never know the value of one. Tons of pet horses out there and that's why they are cheap. But if it's your dream honestly go for it but if you want a challenge take a horse and teach him to stop on his rear end at a lope, spin, sidepass, change leads on command and counter arch both ways in a halter on a lose rein.
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by 3togo
I think NvHermit has the right answer.
I have hunted Wyoming for the last 23 years, last year being the most recent. First time I saw feral horses out there. A little research when I got home indicated that the population increases 20% per year. How long can that go on without more severely impacting native wildlife.

Already happening in some areas
Posted By: west river rogue

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by 3togo
I think NvHermit has the right answer.
I have hunted Wyoming for the last 23 years, last year being the most recent. First time I saw feral horses out there. A little research when I got home indicated that the population increases 20% per year. How long can that go on without more severely impacting native wildlife.

im sure there are many killed yearly legal or not.
Posted By: cat_trapper_nv

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 05:15 PM

We need to stop calling the wild or free roaming. We need to call them what they are, FERAL horses and burros. They are the exact same as FERAL pigs. They do just as much damage as FERAL pigs. They are ruining Nevada's wildlife.
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by cat_trapper_nv
We need to stop calling the wild or free roaming. We need to call them what they are, FERAL horses and burros. They are the exact same as FERAL pigs. They do just as much damage as FERAL pigs. They are ruining Nevada's wildlife.

And waste a huge amount of taxpayer dollars supporting them without any control plan put in place
Posted By: frank1969

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:00 PM

What star flake said.
Good luck to who ever gets one good luck
Posted By: KeithC

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Some people grow up dreaming of a dall sheep hunt, it makes no sense really, it is expensive and dangerous and in the end you just get sheep (if your lucky)

Some people grow up dreaming of a Grizz hunt, again makes no sense when you really boil it down to the inputs and outputs

I grew up dreaming of catching and training a wild horse, even if it all went perfectly it doesnt make much sense, horses are not worth much and it would take a ton of inputs.

In all three of these scenarios it is not about the end game, its about the journey and if at the end you do have a nice "trophy" that is just a bonus.

I have started preparations on accomplishing my goal, I trained two horses so far and have begun constructing better fencing. Turns out building 6 foot board fences is outrageously expensive and a ton of work.


Did you ever see "Spin and Marty" on the old "Mickey Mouse Show"? I saw re-runs of it when I was a kid in the early seventies and got interested in trapping and training wild horses from it. The kids in the show were on a ranch and were trying to catch a white wild horse named Dynamite.

Keith
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by cat_trapper_nv
We need to stop calling the wild or free roaming. We need to call them what they are, FERAL horses and burros. They are the exact same as FERAL pigs. They do just as much damage as FERAL pigs. They are ruining Nevada's wildlife.


Horses were native then went extinct for unknown reasons, humans reintroduced them. I am not sure that is the same as feral pigs. As I said, I dislike horse management as it is emotionally based.

Thought ide throw up a pic of the fence I have been working on, this will be the pen that the horse will be moved to once gentled. The training pen will be the same as this except with 4 boards instead of three to keep them from trying to go through it. [Linked Image]
Posted By: west river rogue

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:07 PM

Yes because they can put head thru and bull thru
Posted By: west river rogue

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:10 PM

I have no regrets with the 3 I had...started them when I was 30..bought my place and built barn for them. Better luck with them than my ex of 33 yrs
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:21 PM

Are feral dogs native, because they came from wolves?
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:46 PM

The idea that the escape of horses, that have been domesticated for thousands of years, in North America is reintroduction of a species that has been extinct for 13,000 yrs is scientifically incorrect. You can't reintroduce a species that is extinct and the animals from the horse family that were in North America are extinct.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by KeithC

Did you ever see "Spin and Marty" on the old "Mickey Mouse Show"? I saw re-runs of it when I was a kid in the early seventies and got interested in trapping and training wild horses from it. The kids in the show were on a ranch and were trying to catch a white wild horse named Dynamite.

Keith


I never have, ill have to see if I can find it, my brother is having a baby in march, seems like a good gift.
Originally Posted by west river rogue
Yes because they can put head thru and bull thru


For sure, going to put electric hot tape up this summer in the gaps to keep them from messing up my fence. For now it is nice to be able to make them reach through for their hay because then they cant waste it.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by cat_trapper_nv
We need to stop calling the wild or free roaming. We need to call them what they are, FERAL horses and burros. They are the exact same as FERAL pigs. They do just as much damage as FERAL pigs. They are ruining Nevada's wildlife.


Horses were native then went extinct for unknown reasons, humans reintroduced them. I am not sure that is the same as feral pigs. As I said, I dislike horse management as it is emotionally based.

Thought ide throw up a pic of the fence I have been working on, this will be the pen that the horse will be moved to once gentled. The training pen will be the same as this except with 4 boards instead of three to keep them from trying to go through it. [Linked Image]


Which side of that fence will the horses be?

If you want a fence to first put them in when you get them you'll be better off buying heavy duty metal horse ( powder river type) and bolting them to your rail road ties 7 12 foot panels and one 12 bow gate panel attached to the required shelter for your state. Cheaper and way faster to build
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by cat_trapper_nv
We need to stop calling the wild or free roaming. We need to call them what they are, FERAL horses and burros. They are the exact same as FERAL pigs. They do just as much damage as FERAL pigs. They are ruining Nevada's wildlife.


Horses were native then went extinct for unknown reasons, humans reintroduced them. I am not sure that is the same as feral pigs. As I said, I dislike horse management as it is emotionally based.

Thought ide throw up a pic of the fence I have been working on, this will be the pen that the horse will be moved to once gentled. The training pen will be the same as this except with 4 boards instead of three to keep them from trying to go through it. [Linked Image]

Your emotional attachment to feral horse has let you to try to justify there existence in North America.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:59 PM

"For sure, going to put electric hot tape up this summer in the gaps to keep them from messing up my fence. For now it is nice to be able to make them reach through for their hay because then they cant waste it."

read the regs again electric fence is not allowed
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by nvwrangler


Which side of that fence will the horses be?

If you want a fence to first put them in when you get them you'll be better off buying heavy duty metal horse ( powder river type) and bolting them to your rail road ties 7 12 foot panels and one 12 bow gate panel attached to the required shelter for your state. Cheaper and way faster to build


They will be on the inside towards the barn, otherwise they would push the boards off. I agree with metal fence, this is right by the house though and I wanted it to look nice and have somewhere to hang all my random deer/skulls[
[/quote]
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Yes sir

Your emotional attachment to feral horse has let you to try to justify there existence in North America.


Do you want all the cattle off the range as well? How about sheep? Management is not ideal but if you think calling them feral and advocating for total removal is going to suit your end goal... well good luck.



Can you use electric once they are gentled or not until a full year has passed?
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 07:07 PM


Can you use electric once they are gentled or not until a full year has passed?

That all depends on who your compliance person is for the BLM and who trained the compliance person.
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by Yes sir

Your emotional attachment to feral horse has let you to try to justify there existence in North America.


Do you want all the cattle off the range as well? How about sheep? Management is not ideal but if you think calling them feral and advocating for total removal is going to suit your end goal... well good luck.



Can you use electric once they are gentled or not until a full year has passed?

All emotions aside and and sticking with the facts are they feral by the definition of feral? I bet we both can agree that management should start and be based of facts. Can there be a place for them somewhere on government ground? I think that's feasible but they need to be managed like a feral population and not like a native population. I enjoy horses more than most and probably have spent more time with them than 99% of the people on the forum but they are a feral animal by the definition of it. So let's start the managment of them off based off facts. Considering you enjoy horses and I enjoy horses and we both dont think they are managed correctly we both could probably find some common ground. Just because i call them feral doesnt mean they need to be removed from existence.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 07:23 PM

I don’t think they ever went extinct. I dont know how much trouble it was for the spanish to get their horses here in the 1500’s but its hard to believe it was a huge number. Yet we are told in just 200 years the west was loaded up with them. Grizzlys, lions, wolves, buffalo eating grass too all no matter. 200 years that handful of spanish horses numbered in the hundreds of thousands and the horses didnt look like their ancestors .


Once a brand peels whose to say where one came from
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
I don’t think they ever went extinct. I dont know how much trouble it was for the spanish to get their horses here in the 1500’s but its hard to believe it was a huge number. Yet we are told in just 200 years the west was loaded up with them. Grizzlys, lions, wolves, buffalo eating grass too all no matter. 200 years that handful of spanish horses numbered in the hundreds of thousands and the horses didnt look like their ancestors .


Once a brand peels whose to say where one came from



From my research there are no documented claims of hundreds of thousands of horses running free in the us in the 1700 or 1800 hundreds. The wagon train journals and trapper journals don't talk about those types of numbers but areas of horses that contained hundreds to a couple thousand . Its the activists that claim huge numbers of horses but there if no proof it ever happened.
The fossil records show the horse that went extinct was way smaller then any standard horse today like very large dog size. They are a reintroduced species that is feral.
Posted By: cmcf

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 07:39 PM

Brands peeling? Brands are a lifetime burn or chemical burn scar they don’t peel.
Posted By: west river rogue

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 07:40 PM

It's his business to do as he pleases..if its what u want go for it. I raised 3 until they died ,if i can help give me a shout.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 08:06 PM

All of them i ever saw the scab peels off
Posted By: west river rogue

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 08:07 PM

mine kept their brands their whole life
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
All of them i ever saw the scab peels off

But the scare lasts a lifetime
Posted By: MJM

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 08:27 PM

I was around some of those feral horses back in the early 1980's in SE Montana. The guy had about five or six studs that came out of Wyoming. They were between four and ten years old is what they said. Each one had to be in a pen by its self and if you tried to go in the pen they pinned their ears and charged you. It didn't take long to figure out you didn't mess with them. The guy was a rodeo stock contractor and had over a hundred head of horses. They were used to working stock and set up for it. We threw them by pulling their front legs out from under them, with a saddle horse and tied all four feet and castrated them. Two months later you still could not get in a pen with them. I have know several people that had them, that thought they were going to tame them. But I never saw anyone have a use able horse from them. But that's even true with all horses. If you don't know what you are doing with them the odds of them turning out go way down.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by west river rogue
mine kept their brands their whole life



yours were freeze marked not hot branded

All brands hot or freeze scab then peel about 2 or 3 weeks after being branded. The difference between brands and marks are brands are all the same and a mark can be different on each animal like the ones on the mustangs. Each mustang has a unique number that tell how old what state it came from and a tag number


Hot brands are 3rd degree burns that leave a scar Freeze marks generally use liquid nitrogen to freeze and kill the pigment in the skin cell and hair follicles so it comes back white, you can scar with a freeze brand or mark by leaving it on longer think freezer burn which is what you'd do with a white or lite colored horse
Posted By: west river rogue

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by nvwrangler
Originally Posted by west river rogue
mine kept their brands their whole life



yours were freeze marked not hot branded

All brands hot or freeze scab then peel about 2 or 3 weeks after being branded. The difference between brands and marks are brands are all the same and a mark can be different on each animal like the ones on the mustangs. Each mustang has a unique number that tell how old what state it came from and a tag number


Hot brands are 3rd degree burns that leave a scar Freeze marks generally use liquid nitrogen to freeze and kill the pigment in the skin cell and hair follicles so it comes back white, you can scar with a freeze brand or mark by leaving it on longer think freezer burn which is what you'd do with a white or lite colored horse

yes freeze branded they called it
Posted By: cmcf

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 09:11 PM

Yes the scab peels off. But your statement after brand peels who could say where one came from was what I referred to. Just like any burn after the scab peels off a permanent scar remains.

Was referring to branding caustic or hot iron not freeze marking.
In any case I wish the OP much success with his endeavors.
There is no doubt in my mind that my sister could gentle one if the animal was young enough when acquired.
I doubt very seriously that I could. I don’t love horses, she does. I don’t have the patience she does.
I’ve known a couple of people that adopted young wild horses and gentled then trained them successfully.
I’ve owned and worked with horses and worked with mules and understand them fairly well. I just don’t become attached to them the way some do.

Good luck and be safe they can hurt you real bad without trying and an older one can kill you pretty easy if they want.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/30/20 09:13 PM

To dispel the myth that you can't work them or be in a pen with them I've personally been around close to 50000 yes 50 thousand wild horses or burros for my job and have only seen one that was so dangerous that you couldn't work or get in the pen with. these horses are fresh from the range and have only been captured for a day or 2 when we get them. The blm adopts upwords of 6000 horses a year and if they were all rank unworkable we would have run out of adopters long ago. Not saying people are always successful but most people if they know what they are doing or hire the right trainer can get a reliable horse. I rode one everyday for 15 years no buck to her and have trained numerous ones that I also rode then sold or gave to friends and kids.

The mustang heritage foundation has the adult programs and youth programs that gentle and place horses every year along with 4H and FFA programs with the BLM. Are they managed well NO but its politics and activists that hamper management. Biggest issue that affected the program was the 2008 rescission as it killed adoptions and caused long term care of large numbers of horses as there was no demand also hurt the domestic horse world.

Donner plan a trip out west and go see a gather public is allowed to view and then visit a corral facility. I encourage all to do this as they are part of the west but knowledge is critical when forming oppions.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 01:33 AM

If you catch a wild horse and brand it, when it peels off the brand is good. A brand inspector will accept it. Its a wild animal. Its not stealing.


Why did you think i was saying a brand was not permanent ?
Posted By: snowy

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by MJM
I was around some of those feral horses back in the early 1980's in SE Montana. The guy had about five or six studs that came out of Wyoming. They were between four and ten years old is what they said. Each one had to be in a pen by its self and if you tried to go in the pen they pinned their ears and charged you. It didn't take long to figure out you didn't mess with them. The guy was a rodeo stock contractor and had over a hundred head of horses. They were used to working stock and set up for it. We threw them by pulling their front legs out from under them, with a saddle horse and tied all four feet and castrated them. Two months later you still could not get in a pen with them. I have know several people that had them, that thought they were going to tame them. But I never saw anyone have a use able horse from them. But that's even true with all horses. If you don't know what you are doing with them the odds of them turning out go way down.

^^That.
I would use them as breeding stock and get some colts out of them and work with the colts to make a horse.
Posted By: Range

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 02:44 AM

https://www.blm.gov/press-release/blm-host-wild-horse-adoption-jan-31-feb-1

Head to Challis tomorrow. There’s usually a few good looking ones that come out of that herd.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by Range
https://www.blm.gov/press-release/blm-host-wild-horse-adoption-jan-31-feb-1

Head to Challis tomorrow. There’s usually a few good looking ones that come out of that herd.

I am not quite ready to take on a horse yet. I have heard the Idaho herds have some of the better horses, alot of draft influence. It was reading about Draft horses being turned loose in Idaho that inspired me to write this poem.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: cat_trapper_nv

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by cat_trapper_nv
We need to stop calling the wild or free roaming. We need to call them what they are, FERAL horses and burros. They are the exact same as FERAL pigs. They do just as much damage as FERAL pigs. They are ruining Nevada's wildlife.


Horses were native then went extinct for unknown reasons, humans reintroduced them. I am not sure that is the same as feral pigs. As I said, I dislike horse management as it is emotionally based.

Thought ide throw up a pic of the fence I have been working on, this will be the pen that the horse will be moved to once gentled. The training pen will be the same as this except with 4 boards instead of three to keep them from trying to go through it. [Linked Image]


The European horse is very different from the 3 toed horse that went extinct way before Europeans came to the americas. Not only where they 3 toed, but they also only weighed 100-130lbs. They were also browsers and not grazers, so they impacted the land the same as deer, elk, and antelope. So they were not a reintroduction. It was the introduction of a animal which the landscape was not designed for. They are exactly the same as feral pigs. Out deer, elk, antelope, and bighorn sheep have suffered greatly because of them.
Posted By: cat_trapper_nv

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 03:47 AM

Originally Posted by nvwrangler
To dispel the myth that you can't work them or be in a pen with them I've personally been around close to 50000 yes 50 thousand wild horses or burros for my job and have only seen one that was so dangerous that you couldn't work or get in the pen with. these horses are fresh from the range and have only been captured for a day or 2 when we get them. The blm adopts upwords of 6000 horses a year and if they were all rank unworkable we would have run out of adopters long ago. Not saying people are always successful but most people if they know what they are doing or hire the right trainer can get a reliable horse. I rode one everyday for 15 years no buck to her and have trained numerous ones that I also rode then sold or gave to friends and kids.

The mustang heritage foundation has the adult programs and youth programs that gentle and place horses every year along with 4H and FFA programs with the BLM. Are they managed well NO but its politics and activists that hamper management. Biggest issue that affected the program was the 2008 rescission as it killed adoptions and caused long term care of large numbers of horses as there was no demand also hurt the domestic horse world.

Donner plan a trip out west and go see a gather public is allowed to view and then visit a corral facility. I encourage all to do this as they are part of the west but knowledge is critical when forming oppions.


I grew up in Fallon and a few years back when I went home for Christmas I trapped right outside one of those corral facilities.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 03:59 AM

Horses went extinct 7600 years ago and by then they had accomplished their modern form, they were no longer 3 toed browsers. I think most/all of us would change horse management in the west if we could.
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by cat_trapper_nv
Originally Posted by nvwrangler
To dispel the myth that you can't work them or be in a pen with them I've personally been around close to 50000 yes 50 thousand wild horses or burros for my job and have only seen one that was so dangerous that you couldn't work or get in the pen with. these horses are fresh from the range and have only been captured for a day or 2 when we get them. The blm adopts upwords of 6000 horses a year and if they were all rank unworkable we would have run out of adopters long ago. Not saying people are always successful but most people if they know what they are doing or hire the right trainer can get a reliable horse. I rode one everyday for 15 years no buck to her and have trained numerous ones that I also rode then sold or gave to friends and kids.

The mustang heritage foundation has the adult programs and youth programs that gentle and place horses every year along with 4H and FFA programs with the BLM. Are they managed well NO but its politics and activists that hamper management. Biggest issue that affected the program was the 2008 rescission as it killed adoptions and caused long term care of large numbers of horses as there was no demand also hurt the domestic horse world.

Donner plan a trip out west and go see a gather public is allowed to view and then visit a corral facility. I encourage all to do this as they are part of the west but knowledge is critical when forming oppions.


I grew up in Fallon and a few years back when I went home for Christmas I trapped right outside one of those corral facilities.



Lots of big healthy yotez i bet. North or south of town?
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 04:05 AM

Modern horses evolved in asia to resemble what we call horses the north American wild horse was more like what cat said based on fossil records
Posted By: NvHermit

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by cat_trapper_nv
The European horse is very different from the 3 toed horse that went extinct way before Europeans came to the americas. Not only where they 3 toed, but they also only weighed 100-130lbs. They were also browsers and not grazers, so they impacted the land the same as deer, elk, and antelope. So they were not a reintroduction. It was the introduction of a animal which the landscape was not designed for. They are exactly the same as feral pigs. Out deer, elk, antelope, and bighorn sheep have suffered greatly because of them.



You're young, I remember when Nevada didn't have elk or antelope but had wild horses.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by nvwrangler
Modern horses evolved in asia to resemble what we call horses the north American wild horse was more like what cat said based on fossil records

From what I have seen newer genetic evidence has disproven this and shown that modern horses and the horses that went extinct around 10000 years ago are genetically the same.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 05:28 AM

Quite the Read^^^

Interesting
Posted By: nvwrangler

Re: Wild Horses/Mustangs - 01/31/20 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by nvwrangler
Modern horses evolved in asia to resemble what we call horses the north American wild horse was more like what cat said based on fossil records

From what I have seen newer genetic evidence has disproven this and shown that modern horses and the horses that went extinct around 10000 years ago are genetically the same.


Double check where that came from activist groups try to make that connection to farther their cause but i do believe geneticly they are linked just not as close as you mention but close enough to be the descendants of those first equines
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