A red hat that says "Make America Great Again"? Mike Eruzione, caption of the 1980 Olympic hockey team is taking flack for wearing the hat while taking a photo with Donald Trump. People complained the hat is racist and shamed the gold medal olympian. Now Mike regrets wearing the hat and compares this to back during the Olympiad games and the cold war. What a shame that our country is so soft and full of crybabies.
Academically speaking, it would effective to state why it is not racist....
A group of people just nodding and agreeing with a statement isn't really interesting. There has been years worth of statements why people believe it is, I have yet to hear any explanation why it isn't other than comments such as those above.
The news media is one of the greatest threats to the U.S.A today!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: How is this racist? - 02/28/2001:57 AM
Well, the hat is red, which means anger. Angry at who? Well ha, if your colorblind it looks like a gray hat which offends us old timers because of gray hair. And Trump backwards stands for, Please Make Us Racist Today. Cmon, its plain to see .
People say things they don't like are racist because it usually elicits the favorable response they want. Most white people are no longer racist. White people who are racist are looked down on by most of society. We just need to judge people by their character and abilities and get along. Minorities can do great in today's society and millions of minorities are doing great. The ones who are not mostly have themselves or their parents to blame. All people need to be taught that their success is in their own hands, because it is.
Ratialists see racism everywhere they look. It is their purpose. Trump supporters recognize this. The more they hear this ridiculous claim, the more likely they will show up at the polls to vote for Trump. That is the huge mistake these "geniuses" are making without realizing how it will work against them.
A red hat that says "Make America Great Again"? Mike Eruzione, caption of the 1980 Olympic hockey team is taking flack for wearing the hat while taking a photo with Donald Trump. People complained the hat is racist and shamed the gold medal olympian. Now Mike regrets wearing the hat and compares this to back during the Olympiad games and the cold war. What a shame that our country is so soft and full of crybabies.
People say things they don't like are racist because it usually elicits the favorable response they want. Most white people are no longer racist. White people who are racist are looked down on by most of society. We just need to judge people by their character and abilities and get along. Minorities can do great in today's society and millions of minorities are doing great. The ones who are not mostly have themselves or their parents to blame. All people need to be taught that their success is in their own hands, because it is.
Keith
And all of this is according to who? A white guy named Keith making up statistics and claims about white people?
The internet is awesome. I'm going to start making stuff up to justify my beliefs too.
A red hat that says "Make America Great Again"? Mike Eruzione, caption of the 1980 Olympic hockey team is taking flack for wearing the hat while taking a photo with Donald Trump. People complained the hat is racist and shamed the gold medal olympian. Now Mike regrets wearing the hat and compares this to back during the Olympiad games and the cold war. What a shame that our country is so soft and full of crybabies.
If someone hated obummer as much as some people hate Mr. Trump the POTUS those people would have been labeled racist but the Trump haters are not racist (according to them). Which is about as stupid as someone moving away from Cali because it sucks and then trying to make the place they moved to like Cali which let left because it sucked so bad. You just Cannot Fix Stupid and there is plenty of Stupid to go around......
One well-crafted explanation of red hat symbolism is that it grants otherwise closeted minds just enough confidence to make comments such as those on this thread.
I've asked multiple times for someone to explain how it isn't without making up statistics or just agreeing with the post above them.
I also just pointed out that it serves as a rallying cry for people who would otherwise not comment on racial issues to start doing so on, say, a trapping forum.....
Explain how the hat is not racist. That is exactly what I said above except this time I did not use a contraction
A hat is not racist because it is a hat. Hats don't think so they can't have racist thoughts. They can't speak so cannot say racist things. The only message on the hat, Make America Great Again, makes no reference to racism. How's that?
I was more interested in the people wearing the hats instead of the literal hats. I didn't realize that needed to be clarified.
If no one is willing to admit that MAGA has been adopted by some as representative of reforms directed at people of color, then there won't be much of a discussion. By refusing to admit there is a percentage of people who think this way, there is nothing to talk about.
Its not rocket science.In the past america was racist. The hat says that the past was great and they want to go back to that racist past.The hat doesnt implicitly state that but that is the extrapolation of how people who were victims of racism see the past. That is how some people read it.
I was more interested in the people wearing the hats instead of the literal hats. I didn't realize that needed to be clarified.
If no one is willing to admit that MAGA has been adopted by some as representative of reforms directed at people of color, then there won't be much of a discussion. By refusing to admit there is a percentage of people who think this way, there is nothing to talk about.
So if I see a known Klansman wearing a KC Royals hat then I can assume those are racist too?
So because some fringe group wants to adopt the hat as something hateful, then everyone that wears the hat must follow that fringe groups philosophy? That’s just stupid.
By that logic everyone that ever dressed as a clown must be a serial killer because John Wayne Gacy dressed as one and killed people. Anyone that wears a black beret is racist because some Black Panther wore one. The list can go on and on. A MAGA hat is not racist just because a few fools wearing it might be.
Its not rocket science.In the past america was racist. The hat says that the past was great and they want to go back to that racist past.The hat doesnt implicitly state that but that is the extrapolation of how people who were victims of racism see the past. That is how some people read it.
So you're telling me that perceptions of racism are subjective?
Not to you only to those who suffered racism.Its like a slap in the face to them. Wearing a hat that says the past was great (but the past was racist)-no way will they want to go back to that.They see people who want to make america the way it was in the past as wanting to return to racism. Very easy to see their take on it, whether it means that or not to you, that is what it means to them.
Not to you only to those who suffered racism.Its like a slap in the face to them. Wearing a hat that says the past was great (but the past was racist)-no way will they want to go back to that.They see people who want to make america the way it was in the past as wanting to return to racism. Very easy to see their take on it, whether it means that or not to you, that is what it means to them.
Sure, I get that... But it could also be interpreted as a call to when Americans overcame the obstacles in their way, persevered, and made their own way without expecting the taxpayers to take care of them.
When the POTUS before Trump said "Americas best days were behind them" was he talking about slavery? Sounds pretty racist to me. I'm all for keeping America great. Now tell me that racist also.
To white people americas past was gunsmoke,leave it to beaver and the brady bunch. To black people americas past was discrimination,segregation and racism. And never the twain shall meet.This is the third time I have explained to you in plain english why some people see the maga hat and the slogan on it as racist.Me being a white man have no problem with it. If you dont get it why some see it as racist your awful thick between the ears.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: How is this racist? - 02/28/2004:49 AM
Why does the past success of the country have to include racism as part of the success? Make America great again means to me that we created so much we were even able to surplus and give to others who needed it more than us. It means we could have almost anything we wanted for Sunday dinner, at that dinner every night. It means we all get the opportunity to learn and earn and fulfill goals like home ownership. I get it but seems others want to dwell in the negative and wallow in suffering they didn’t even have to experience. America IS a great country and with the right collective thought process and determination it will remain. How a message on a hat can be racist is beyond me unless blantantly written.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: How is this racist? - 02/28/2004:56 AM
You know boco I’ve seen quite a few shows on the First Nations network about good ole Canada’s opposition to native success...so would it be safe for me to “feel” that anything with a Canadian flag logo on it represents racism? I kinda feel that way after seeing all things taken away from indigenous peoples even in modern times.
Because your past reality was not their past reality. Native people are their own nations they have their own symbols. Most use the maple leaf with a native warrior imposed on it as their flag,so I dont believe they have an issue with the maple leaf.Perhaps the union jack,but that is no longer our flag.
People who can't move beyond their feelings of victim-hood will remain victims. There are many examples of successful minorities in this country. Unfortunately we have a political party in this country who cares more about power than lifting people up. They are promoting failure for their own selfish reasons.
Anyway if one lets a hat or symbol dictate their thoughts they will fail at life.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: How is this racist? - 02/28/2005:20 AM
Funny story, I work with a black guy. He gave us all black names, mine is Leroy. Is he a racist? I think it’s kinda funny and so does he. We eat lunch together. He doesn’t have a car so he rides in my truck. He says he likes riding with me, it makes him feel like a “redneck” and he says he wants to do all the redneck stuff with me, “you know like huntin an fishin”. Man people are just nuts...arguing over a hat and how they interpret its message. Poor hockey player, bet he’s a good guy.
Look,it symbolizes the past to them which was racist.It does not symbolize that to you. How arrogant is it for you to tell them what it does or does not symbolize to them.You are not them.Your reality is different.
You asked why some people see the hat and slogan as racist-I explained it to yall 4 times now in plain english-You either dont like the answer or dont understand. Anyway-thats all folks.Tired of repeating myself.
Look,it symbolizes the past to them which was racist.It does not symbolize that to you. How arrogant is it for you to tell them what it does or does not symbolize to them.You are not them.Your reality is different.
Almost as arrogant as you thinking you're " their " spokesman , don't ya think ?
I never claimed to be anyones spokesman so you are way out in left field there.I explained why some people see the slogan and hat as a symbol of racism. Ask the ones who see it that way if you dont believe me.
Let's face it.... and then forget about it.... Those that yell RACIST the most are the BIGGEST racists... like the dems always do... watch this hand over here while I try and beat you over the head with my other hand. Just ask them in what closet they hand their white hood and robe... they are all KKK in one way or another.
Garry-
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: How is this racist? - 02/28/2005:55 AM
I think their point of view is skewed. Make it great again was really meant to stir the positive of the past into the present, not the negative. Some people just can’t see a great thing I guess...just fartin around life dwelling on something I’m willing to bet they’ve never been a part of.
There is nothing wrong with the "Make America Great" slogan or cap. I think its a great slogan. I think that people who see that slogan associate it with self-identified white supremacists who support Trump and tout the Slogan. Some instances that have led people to believe Trump is “racist” are his previous comments about Mexican immigrants and his slow response to neo-Nazis rallying in Charlottesville, Virginia. However, there are good people who support Trump and likewise, I think there are good people who support Sanders.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: How is this racist? - 02/28/2006:04 AM
If your ever in the hood you should come over boco...bring some lebattes or some puppers and some Canadian whiskey and we can sit next to the fire and talk or argue about beaver, the Cheeto and Trudy. I like the way you trap and you’re kinda fun to argue with.
The absurdity of this argument and the entire premise behind us is mind-numbing.
Cedarblock starts off with “Academically speaking, explain why a hat is NOT racist.” As said, that’s asking to prove a negative, which is about the most un-academic request one can make. It’s like “explain why that tree isn’t racist.” The premise is both counter-academic and illogical.
Then we have Boco reminding us 4 or 5 times that the issue is other people’s “historical reality,” as if we’re going to magically see the liberal light if he says it enough times. What does that have to do with someone’s choice of hat? Every single person has different history, and every demographic- race, sex, nationality, religion, occupation, and creed— has historical ups and downs. What Boco (and the liberal race-bating dividers) are proposing is that if someone makes a positive reference to the past, and that past includes hardship for any person or demographic, then that statement is thereby racist, along with the person making it.
So let’s put this principal to the test:
I got married in 2013. It’s a happy memory for me. Can I publicly celebrate that? Well let’s see. Alberta flooded that year, and Lac-Megantic blew up. Wouldn’t want to remind any Canadians of that trauma. Also a hurricane hit the Philippines and killed 5000 people. Let’s not forget the Boston Marathon Bomber. Way too much risk of flashbacks for too many people. Let’s not talk positively about 2013.
How about a bigger scale? What about a year like 1945, the end of WWII? Surely that’s something we could all celebrate right? The year we liberated Europe from Nazism, Asia from Japanese imperialism, freed hundreds of thousands from concentration camps, millions of soldiers came home, and the Allied nations were the most united in history? Well many of us could celebrate that, but what if you’re Japanese and your family was interned or bombed? What if your ancestors didn’t make it home? What if you’re Jewish and lost your family in the camps? Or what if you’re black and remember that the military was still segregated then? Can any of us celebrate?
We celebrate the 4th of July, our Independence Day. Is that racist? Since there was slavery then? That a group of white men dared to revolt against tyranny and forge a new nation unprecedented in model? Is the Constitution racist if there weren’t any minority signers?
Is there any period of history that doesn’t include hardship for someone? Is it ok to celebrate it anyway? Has the lie of political correctness become so pervasive that a positive reference to history can be seen as “racist” simply because history includes racism?
Is America’s whole history racist because it includes racism? Is it really unacceptable call a nation “great” if it’s history includes some ugliness? What is the definition of “great,” historical perfection?
Here’s the thing- if someone says something about a period of history that brings back trauma for me, that doesn’t make them a racist or mean they hate me. Maybe they had a good run and I had a bad run back then. Maybe I still am. Maybe my ancestors were treated wrong. It doesn’t mean it’s their fault. It’s not wrong for them to talk about it. They can celebrate something that I don’t. It doesn’t have to be fair; life isn’t fair. All it is is me choosing a victim identity.
Here’s what I think: my father isn’t perfect, but he’s great. My grandfather and my ancestors weren’t perfect, but they were great. The tough, salty folks who came home from “the war”, and every war, certainly aren’t perfect, but they are great, and the world is greater for for them. The folks who fought to end slavery, segregation and discrimination are great. And you know what, I dare to say we even had some racist slave owners who did some greatness in other ways, once upon a time. It doesn’t excuse their sin, but it also doesn’t negate their good.
This country of ours isn’t perfect. It never has been and never will be. We’ve treated people wrongly, and sometimes still do. But, God bless her, she’s also done a heck of a lot of greatness for the world. She was great, she is great, and we WILL continue to make her great. God Bless the USA, and keep making her great.
Everything in the country has become political and many people look to point fingers at anyone who does not see everything as they do. The MAGA hat is simply a pro-trump hat and is viewed the same as a campaign poster. I see nothing racist about it. If somebody wore a hat that said vote for bernie, or dump trump, many from the other team would be crying and finding fault with it.
Too many Americans look for any reason to hate other Americans. The divisiveness is bringing us down.
Academically speaking, it would effective to state why it is not racist....
A group of people just nodding and agreeing with a statement isn't really interesting. There has been years worth of statements why people believe it is, I have yet to hear any explanation why it isn't other than comments such as those above.
This country of ours isn’t perfect. It never has been and never will be. We’ve treated people wrongly, and sometimes still do. But, God bless her, she’s also done a heck of a lot of greatness for the world. She was great, she is great, and we WILL continue to make her great. God Bless the USA, and keep making her great.
IMHO.....She is the greatest experiment humanity has tried this time around....I'm very grateful to be here.
Originally Posted by gryhkl
Too many Americans look for any reason to hate other Americans. The divisiveness is bringing us down.
Exactly! And I wonder, deeply, if it is not being done deliberately. Now why would anyone want to see WE THE PEOPLE divided????? (that might be a rhetorical question)
I've been TOLD that only white people can be racist and that I need to shut up and listen......you can probably imagine how that went....
As I pointed out to them the bigoted and racist people that THEY ARE..... I'm still not moved although their position fills me with an urge to movement...
A racist hat huh? OK whatever you say. So I can promise that IF you assault me I will defend myself.....
On my riding leathers, my vest, I have a patch that say's "SPEAK ENGLISH OR GET THE F_&^ OUT"......I don't hear too many comments, at least not out loud..hahaha
I guess I'm just a racist biker trapper heathen piece of crap.......or not. I'm not loosing any sleep over it at all..
Academically speaking, it would effective to state why it is not racist....
A group of people just nodding and agreeing with a statement isn't really interesting. There has been years worth of statements why people believe it is, I have yet to hear any explanation why it isn't other than comments such as those above.
Just my initial thoughts.
Notice I quoted myself...….apparently I'm the only one who can do so without altering my words.
Also note that I did not mention the hat. While noting things, please also note that the bold sentence was omitted by everyone who continues to misquote me. When I used the word academically, I meant for me. EXPLAIN to me why it is not. I thought my question was polite.
The hat being a hat is not the issue for those who oppose it. The MAGA slogan is. I'm not asking to prove a negative. The red hat/MAGA slogan IS already deemed racist by some (refer to the bold sentence in my original quote.)
I used the word academic to suggest crafting an intellectual argument. Make a few points, use logic, etc. It was a response to the title of this thread and the first post on the page. Essentially, I meant use some words to explain yourself.
I politely asked a question about my INITIAL THOUGHTS and as a result have been misquoted and taken out of context for pages now.
There is nothing wrong with the "Make America Great" slogan or cap. I think its a great slogan. I think that people who see that slogan associate it with self-identified white supremacists who support Trump and tout the Slogan. Some instances that have led people to believe Trump is “racist” are his previous comments about Mexican immigrants and his slow response to neo-Nazis rallying in Charlottesville, Virginia. However, there are good people who support Trump and likewise, I think there are good people who support Sanders.
Maybe just maybe if the hat did have "Make America Great" instead of the "Again" included..This post would make some sense..
MNCedar I get what your saying as I do Boco, don't expect most here to get it..
The hat or slogan is not racist at all. Make America great again means Sovereignty, pride for our country, love for our flag, our anthem, our way of life. It means to stop sending jobs overseas and manufacturing here. It means getting jobs for all people, including the Blacks, Hispanics and all minorities. It means ending division, coming together not as hyphenated Americans, just Americans and that goes against the globalist agenda and scares the crap out of the left, so they scream racism. If a red hat or a slogan upsets you that much, you have bigger problems and should seek help imo because that's not how a mentally stable person should react.
Mac, how very condescending lol. It's not that we don't get what they're saying, we just know BS when we see it.
Academically speaking, it would effective to state why it is not racist....
A group of people just nodding and agreeing with a statement isn't really interesting. There has been years worth of statements why people believe it is, I have yet to hear any explanation why it isn't other than comments such as those above.
Just my initial thoughts.
Draw one parallel from a MAGA hat to racism, Just cause someone says it over and over does not make it so. Innocent until proven guilty. If you can not see that racism is just a catch word for the mentally challenged liberals to gather around then, YOU may be a liberal.
MNCedar I get what your saying as I do Boco, don't expect most here to get it..
Mac
Gee, I wish I was enlightened enough to get it or maybe we do get it and see it for the drivel it is. [/quote]
So it's just drivel if not valid that someone else can see it differently then you or others here do?
I can say I see the MAGA statement as drivel..I have someone who I respect if I say that to him I may well get punched.. And I am far from enlightened...just another dumb redneck ..
There is nothing wrong with the "Make America Great" slogan or cap. I think its a great slogan. I think that people who see that slogan associate it with self-identified white supremacists who support Trump and tout the Slogan. Some instances that have led people to believe Trump is “racist” are his previous comments about Mexican immigrants and his slow response to neo-Nazis rallying in Charlottesville, Virginia. However, there are good people who support Trump and likewise, I think there are good people who support Sanders.
Maybe just maybe if the hat did have "Make America Great" instead of the "Again" included..This post would make some sense..
MNCedar I get what your saying as I do Boco, don't expect most here to get it..
Mac
I get it, its all about hate. It was hate for Gov. Walker that drove people like Mac to vote a Dem gun grabber like Evers. Now we have to "make Wisconsin great again".
I'm 37 years old, white male and married to my high school sweetheart who is African American and we have 3 beautiful biracial children. When we started dating in 2001 I thought it was a great thing that a guy from the hills of east Tenn (which is predominantly white) could be with a African American woman and nobody seemed to have a problem with it( I'm sure some did). You didn't hear much about racism and it seemed the country was more united than ever. I didn't vote for Obama but told my wife it was pretty neat that a African American became president even though we didn't agree with his policies. Unfortunately though he seemed to put us in reverse as far as race relations instead of the opposite. So from my some perspectives the MAGA could mean that we are gonna erase the damage done by the last POTUS. In the eye of the beholder
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: How is this racist? - 02/28/2001:59 PM
If someone wants to hate another people who treated them and theirs unjustly, history is plum full of examples to draw from. Pick one. If you know history.
My wife is polish heritage and as such she is a "slav".... the medieval Latin word for "slave." The Greeks had a similar term. Today we call these nation groups Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Slovenes, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, etc. = a bunch of "Slavic" people groups. But they hadn't carved out nations much at that time period so there were just kingdoms more or less throughout the land. Why'd they call a vast region of people slavs or slaves?
Because starting around the 6th century, a couple centuries after Rome is sacked by the Visigoths and the Roman Empire implodes after a millennium of power the world had never seen before that, chaos now rules over the lands for centuries - and these groups of "slavs," existed in Eurasia, a bad spot as it turned out geographically.
Slavs were smaller bands of people, sandwiched between fiercer bigger, stronger, groups. They often lived in inhospitable places, trying not to be taken capture or killed. Mongols, Persians (Turks) and Huns from their east would raid the slavs and pillage and _______. Visigoths, Vandals, Angles, Saxons, Franks, from their west and south would raid the slavs and pillage and _______. Men were killed and tortured of course, or made "slavs." Women were often taken back, as spoils of war.... also as "slavs."
You can imagine how wonderful and rosy those days must have been like. "Little house on the eurasian prairie" kind of days no doubt.
There's a reason they don't teach history anymore. History might give someone a bit of perspective. Or you can teach pieces of history, that give your narrative precedence and serves a specific purpose. That's what they do in "American" history classes now.
Sadly, there are some who cloak their righteousness with ignorance. They don't know what they don't know. And sadly, sometimes they don't want to know because they like what they like about what they like and don't know! They may not know that the term ignorant wasn't a derogatory term historically.... until this recent century. It was simply a term meaning; a state of "not knowing." Call someone ignorant today and see what happens. Modernists have now deemed this word offensive, because it may burst a head knowledge bubble.
Simply, all people groups have a heritage of bad, bad stuff and good, good stuff, and we're all sitting here today as that progeny. If we choose to hate, it ain't hard to find a reason.
Thankfully, my wife doesn't hate me - because my Anglo ancestors probably had some of Donna's slav ancestors tending their stock, gardens, homes and more.
Exactly what do you mean when you use the term redneck? I may be offended..
Ol dad
LOL What ever definition of that you see it as...Kind of the point of this post.. Maybe we don't all see things the same..Don't mean the other persons point of view is not valid to them...
I just know I got called a "Redneck" many times when I was in high school.. So someone must have thought I was their definition of that?? Also got call called "Punk" a time or too by some older folks.. Even was called a "Goon" wha tever that is? So maybe I misidentify myself as a individual and need others to tell me who I'am?
Well it seems that the hat with the slogan MAGA is identified as racist by some people. So we are to explain why it is not. Some people identify the earth as flat, but it's not. Some men identify as women and some women identify as men, but biologically [academically] there're not. Also some people see the slogan MAGA as racist, but it's NOT. There I explained it in simple english for the people that are thick between the ears.
Academically speaking, it would effective to state why it is not racist....
A group of people just nodding and agreeing with a statement isn't really interesting. There has been years worth of statements why people believe it is, I have yet to hear any explanation why it isn't other than comments such as those above.
Just my initial thoughts.
Notice I quoted myself...….apparently I'm the only one who can do so without altering my words.
Also note that I did not mention the hat. While noting things, please also note that the bold sentence was omitted by everyone who continues to misquote me. When I used the word academically, I meant for me. EXPLAIN to me why it is not. I thought my question was polite.
The hat being a hat is not the issue for those who oppose it. The MAGA slogan is. I'm not asking to prove a negative. The red hat/MAGA slogan IS already deemed racist by some (refer to the bold sentence in my original quote.)
I used the word academic to suggest crafting an intellectual argument. Make a few points, use logic, etc. It was a response to the title of this thread and the first post on the page. Essentially, I meant use some words to explain yourself.
I politely asked a question about my INITIAL THOUGHTS and as a result have been misquoted and taken out of context for pages now.
Why is everybody so mad? .
Strange how you focus only on the responses that say an inanimate object cannot be racist while completely ignoring the responses that directly address the challenge you issued. At the top of page 4 KenaiKid gives an excellent response, yet you ignore it. There are also a couple of strong points on page 2 such as Mike in a Town's comment about a KC Royals hat. Again, crickets. So, how about a response to these comments that "Make a few points, use logic, etc."
I too have long wondered how the MAGA slogan is racist. Some posters on this thread have done a very good job explaining how it could be construed that way. This thread is also full of reasons why it is not. This whole thing boils down to whether or not you believe the following statement: One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
Just read this post.You have to be kidding me . People are wearing a hat that says make my country great again .And some one comes along attacking that ? Why? I think besides being a liberal dem. he is better at doing what James does than James is . Also here comes Boco who sees yet another chance to once again knock America . Have you read your own countries news lately? Oh by the way as you like to say these are just my initial thoughts. lol
Explain how the hat is not racist. That is exactly what I said above except this time I did not use a contraction
A hat is not racist because it is a hat. Hats don't think so they can't have racist thoughts. They can't speak so cannot say racist things. The only message on the hat, Make America Great Again, makes no reference to racism. How's that?
Exactly. ^^ Due primarily to their hatred of all things Trump, the haters are trying to associate a symbol(red MAGA hats) with something bad(racism) so as to influence public opinion in a negative way towards their enemy. There is no actual connection, just one that some people try to conjure up to besmirch someone that they don't like.
Not to you only to those who suffered racism.Its like a slap in the face to them. Wearing a hat that says the past was great (but the past was racist)-no way will they want to go back to that.They see people who want to make america the way it was in the past as wanting to return to racism. Very easy to see their take on it, whether it means that or not to you, that is what it means to them.
Illogic on display. ^^ Seeing a red hat with the MAGA phrase on it and then deselecting ALL OTHER possible meanings and choosing to focus only on one potential meaning(racism), which has never been officially associated with that subject, is a giveaway as to one's true motivations. When all you have is a hammer, everything then looks like a nail.
For one thing, even in the past, not everyone was racist. Just a few other things from "in the past" that many would identify with and may associate with a phrase that harks back to a previous "time":
1. Kids showing respect to their elders/parents. 2. People working hard and being on time, etc. 3. Respect for the flag and patriotism. Etc, etc, etc,
That some would take the phrase MAGA and then go straight to racism is their problem...until and unless there is any real connection established between racism and MAGA...and so far, there isn't one.
The absurdity of this argument and the entire premise behind us is mind-numbing.
Cedarblock starts off with “Academically speaking, explain why a hat is NOT racist.” As said, that’s asking to prove a negative, which is about the most un-academic request one can make. It’s like “explain why that tree isn’t racist.” The premise is both counter-academic and illogical.
Then we have Boco reminding us 4 or 5 times that the issue is other people’s “historical reality,” as if we’re going to magically see the liberal light if he says it enough times. What does that have to do with someone’s choice of hat? Every single person has different history, and every demographic- race, sex, nationality, religion, occupation, and creed— has historical ups and downs. What Boco (and the liberal race-bating dividers) are proposing is that if someone makes a positive reference to the past, and that past includes hardship for any person or demographic, then that statement is thereby racist, along with the person making it.
So let’s put this principal to the test:
I got married in 2013. It’s a happy memory for me. Can I publicly celebrate that? Well let’s see. Alberta flooded that year, and Lac-Megantic blew up. Wouldn’t want to remind any Canadians of that trauma. Also a hurricane hit the Philippines and killed 5000 people. Let’s not forget the Boston Marathon Bomber. Way too much risk of flashbacks for too many people. Let’s not talk positively about 2013.
How about a bigger scale? What about a year like 1945, the end of WWII? Surely that’s something we could all celebrate right? The year we liberated Europe from Nazism, Asia from Japanese imperialism, freed hundreds of thousands from concentration camps, millions of soldiers came home, and the Allied nations were the most united in history? Well many of us could celebrate that, but what if you’re Japanese and your family was interned or bombed? What if your ancestors didn’t make it home? What if you’re Jewish and lost your family in the camps? Or what if you’re black and remember that the military was still segregated then? Can any of us celebrate?
We celebrate the 4th of July, our Independence Day. Is that racist? Since there was slavery then? That a group of white men dared to revolt against tyranny and forge a new nation unprecedented in model? Is the Constitution racist if there weren’t any minority signers?
Is there any period of history that doesn’t include hardship for someone? Is it ok to celebrate it anyway? Has the lie of political correctness become so pervasive that a positive reference to history can be seen as “racist” simply because history includes racism?
Is America’s whole history racist because it includes racism? Is it really unacceptable call a nation “great” if it’s history includes some ugliness? What is the definition of “great,” historical perfection?
Here’s the thing- if someone says something about a period of history that brings back trauma for me, that doesn’t make them a racist or mean they hate me. Maybe they had a good run and I had a bad run back then. Maybe I still am. Maybe my ancestors were treated wrong. It doesn’t mean it’s their fault. It’s not wrong for them to talk about it. They can celebrate something that I don’t. It doesn’t have to be fair; life isn’t fair. All it is is me choosing a victim identity.
Here’s what I think: my father isn’t perfect, but he’s great. My grandfather and my ancestors weren’t perfect, but they were great. The tough, salty folks who came home from “the war”, and every war, certainly aren’t perfect, but they are great, and the world is greater for for them. The folks who fought to end slavery, segregation and discrimination are great. And you know what, I dare to say we even had some racist slave owners who did some greatness in other ways, once upon a time. It doesn’t excuse their sin, but it also doesn’t negate their good.
This country of ours isn’t perfect. It never has been and never will be. We’ve treated people wrongly, and sometimes still do. But, God bless her, she’s also done a heck of a lot of greatness for the world. She was great, she is great, and we WILL continue to make her great. God Bless the USA, and keep making her great.
If someone wants to hate another people who treated them and theirs unjustly, history is plum full of examples to draw from. Pick one. If you know history.
My wife is polish heritage and as such she is a "slav".... the medieval Latin word for "slave." The Greeks had a similar term. Today we call these nation groups Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Slovenes, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, etc. = a bunch of "Slavic" people groups. But they hadn't carved out nations much at that time period so there were just kingdoms more or less throughout the land. Why'd they call a vast region of people slavs or slaves?
Because starting around the 6th century, a couple centuries after Rome is sacked by the Visigoths and the Roman Empire implodes after a millennium of power the world had never seen before that, chaos now rules over the lands for centuries - and these groups of "slavs," existed in Eurasia, a bad spot as it turned out geographically.
Slavs were smaller bands of people, sandwiched between fiercer bigger, stronger, groups. They often lived in inhospitable places, trying not to be taken capture or killed. Mongols, Persians (Turks) and Huns from their east would raid the slavs and pillage and _______. Visigoths, Vandals, Angles, Saxons, Franks, from their west and south would raid the slavs and pillage and _______. Men were killed and tortured of course, or made "slavs." Women were often taken back, as spoils of war.... also as "slavs."
You can imagine how wonderful and rosy those days must have been like. "Little house on the eurasian prairie" kind of days no doubt.
There's a reason they don't teach history anymore. History might give someone a bit of perspective. Or you can teach pieces of history, that give your narrative precedence and serves a specific purpose. That's what they do in "American" history classes now.
Sadly, there are some who cloak their righteousness with ignorance. They don't know what they don't know. And sadly, sometimes they don't want to know because they like what they like about what they like and don't know! They may not know that the term ignorant wasn't a derogatory term historically.... until this recent century. It was simply a term meaning; a state of "not knowing." Call someone ignorant today and see what happens. Modernists have now deemed this word offensive, because it may burst a head knowledge bubble.
Simply, all people groups have a heritage of bad, bad stuff and good, good stuff, and we're all sitting here today as that progeny. If we choose to hate, it ain't hard to find a reason.
Thankfully, my wife doesn't hate me - because my Anglo ancestors probably had some of Donna's slav ancestors tending their stock, gardens, homes and more.
Just read this post.You have to be kidding me . People are wearing a hat that says make my country great again .And some one comes along attacking that ? Why? I think besides being a liberal dem. he is better at doing what James does than James is . Also here comes Boco who sees yet another chance to once again knock America . Have you read your own countries news lately? Oh by the way as you like to say these are just my initial thoughts. lol
All true, U.S.A. the shining light in a socialist world cesspool...So glad not to live in weak, helpless canada
Boco did a good job expaining how the MAGA slogan, that on the surface is a very positive message, could be percieved in a negative way by those with a different perspective on the past. However, I doubt the recent accusations of racism are in reference to the period of slavery and oppression in the distant past. It would take some extreme paranoia for anyone to imagine that the slogan is suggesting a return to slavery and oppression.
More likely the claims of racism are directed at the more recent past. The campaign slogan and entire campaign was intended to appeal to a large majority of Americans who believed this country was in decline during the previous administration. Being critical of the sitting administration is really the only way for an opposition party to campaign in order to get elected. However, the 2016 election was unique in that it required being critical of the first black president. Unfortunately, though the criticism directed at the liberal policies of that administration had nothing to do with race, any criticism of a black president was percieved by some as being racist.
If someone wants to hate another people who treated them and theirs unjustly, history is plum full of examples to draw from. Pick one. If you know history.
My wife is polish heritage and as such she is a "slav".... the medieval Latin word for "slave." The Greeks had a similar term. Today we call these nation groups Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Slovenes, Macedonians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, etc. = a bunch of "Slavic" people groups. But they hadn't carved out nations much at that time period so there were just kingdoms more or less throughout the land. Why'd they call a vast region of people slavs or slaves?
Because starting around the 6th century, a couple centuries after Rome is sacked by the Visigoths and the Roman Empire implodes after a millennium of power the world had never seen before that, chaos now rules over the lands for centuries - and these groups of "slavs," existed in Eurasia, a bad spot as it turned out geographically.
Slavs were smaller bands of people, sandwiched between fiercer bigger, stronger, groups. They often lived in inhospitable places, trying not to be taken capture or killed. Mongols, Persians (Turks) and Huns from their east would raid the slavs and pillage and _______. Visigoths, Vandals, Angles, Saxons, Franks, from their west and south would raid the slavs and pillage and _______. Men were killed and tortured of course, or made "slavs." Women were often taken back, as spoils of war.... also as "slavs."
You can imagine how wonderful and rosy those days must have been like. "Little house on the eurasian prairie" kind of days no doubt.
There's a reason they don't teach history anymore. History might give someone a bit of perspective. Or you can teach pieces of history, that give your narrative precedence and serves a specific purpose. That's what they do in "American" history classes now.
Sadly, there are some who cloak their righteousness with ignorance. They don't know what they don't know. And sadly, sometimes they don't want to know because they like what they like about what they like and don't know! They may not know that the term ignorant wasn't a derogatory term historically.... until this recent century. It was simply a term meaning; a state of "not knowing." Call someone ignorant today and see what happens. Modernists have now deemed this word offensive, because it may burst a head knowledge bubble.
Simply, all people groups have a heritage of bad, bad stuff and good, good stuff, and we're all sitting here today as that progeny. If we choose to hate, it ain't hard to find a reason.
Thankfully, my wife doesn't hate me - because my Anglo ancestors probably had some of Donna's slav ancestors tending their stock, gardens, homes and more.
Great post Mark! That's some serious truth right there.
I too am "Slav" and I'm also Italian and that's genetics, BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST I am an American. I don't hate Arab's or anyone else for what happened to my ancestors nor do I want reparations or even any apology. In fact the terrible things that have happened also resulted in my ancestors coming HERE to America so, it turned out well for me. So, to whom ever, THANK YOU, I'm now in a very good place.
Bigots are bigots and they come in the entire Baskin Robins set of flavors. Every "race" has horrible people and also has great people. The United States of America is a place, an experiment, where we will see if we can all live together OR NOT.....I surely hope so.
Liberals that say black people are showing there own racism. People are people no reason to label them black,Hispanic,Asian, or white a non racist would just call them people.
Liberals that say black people are showing there own racism. People are people no reason to label them black,Hispanic,Asian, or white a non racist would just call them people.
Most here cant understand why people with a different negative past life experience dont think or see the world like they do.They want things to change not go back to a time that was hurtful to their parents and grandparents.Thats how they see it and it is not wrong for them.They will never see things the same way that we see it. To tell people who live a different reality than you,how they should see and interpret things is arrogant to say the least.
Liberals that say black people are showing there own racism. People are people no reason to label them black,Hispanic,Asian, or white a non racist would just call them people.
That is the best ever truth. It's just like RM's post, he said his kids are biracial and I know he's just saying what is being said if that makes sense, he seems a good ole boy. I'm in my 50's and I don't think even 20% of us consider the term biracial anymore, it's antiquated. They are just wonderful and beautiful kids under the same sky. I think some things are being lost on conservative believes.
I could care less what people think about my MAGA hat. You spit in my face for wearing it and you will get more than spit coming back at you. I will say, the biggest racist are people like Al Sharpton (who is not really a reverend) who want to control the black community.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: How is this racist? - 02/28/2006:09 PM
Originally Posted by Boco
Most here cant understand why people with a different negative past life experience dont think or see the world like they do.They want things to change not go back to a time that was hurtful to their parents and grandparents.Thats how they see it and it is not wrong for them.They will never see things the same way that we see it. To tell people who live a different reality than you,how they should see and interpret things is arrogant to say the least.
Could we then agree that all peoples have been grieved historically by some other group? By someone who doesn't look or think like them, or maybe even by their own family member. Hating isn't hard. We're born to it.
Not hating when we tell ourselves we have every right to..... is hard.
Most here cant understand why people with a different negative past life experience dont think or see the world like they do.They want things to change not go back to a time that was hurtful to their parents and grandparents.Thats how they see it and it is not wrong for them.They will never see things the same way that we see it. To tell people who live a different reality than you,how they should see and interpret things is arrogant to say the least.
Blah Blah Blah lol, they sure do live in a different reality than normal people, they're nutburgers.
Most here cant understand why people with a different negative past life experience dont think or see the world like they do.They want things to change not go back to a time that was hurtful to their parents and grandparents.Thats how they see it and it is not wrong for them.They will never see things the same way that we see it. To tell people who live a different reality than you,how they should see and interpret things is arrogant to say the least.
Strange how you focus only on the responses that say an inanimate object cannot be racist while completely ignoring the responses that directly address the challenge you issued. At the top of page 4 KenaiKid gives an excellent response, yet you ignore it. There are also a couple of strong points on page 2 such as Mike in a Town's comment about a KC Royals hat. Again, crickets. So, how about a response to these comments that "Make a few points, use logic, etc."
I too have long wondered how the MAGA slogan is racist. Some posters on this thread have done a very good job explaining how it could be construed that way. This thread is also full of reasons why it is not. This whole thing boils down to whether or not you believe the following statement: One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
KenaiKid addressed me by the wrong name, misquoted me, added a word I did not say, and omitted the rest of my post that gave context. I did respond briefly to that, but I'm not going to reward that behavior with a response. The rest of his post was well thought out.
The KC Royals are not the current political administration nor are they campaigning for office. The Royals hat does not represent an ideology that is controversial in current politics. I did not respond to this because I did not see it as a viable comparison. No offense to anyone involved.
You stated yourself that the issues with MAGA lie in the way it is construed and there is logical reasoning for both sides. Well said. That was my whole point.
Strange how you focus only on the responses that say an inanimate object cannot be racist while completely ignoring the responses that directly address the challenge you issued. At the top of page 4 KenaiKid gives an excellent response, yet you ignore it. There are also a couple of strong points on page 2 such as Mike in a Town's comment about a KC Royals hat. Again, crickets. So, how about a response to these comments that "Make a few points, use logic, etc."
I too have long wondered how the MAGA slogan is racist. Some posters on this thread have done a very good job explaining how it could be construed that way. This thread is also full of reasons why it is not. This whole thing boils down to whether or not you believe the following statement: One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
KenaiKid addressed me by the wrong name, misquoted me, added a word I did not say, and omitted the rest of my post that gave context. I did respond briefly to that, but I'm not going to reward that behavior with a response. The rest of his post was well thought out.
The KC Royals are not the current political administration nor are they campaigning for office. The Royals hat does not represent an ideology that is controversial in current politics. I did not respond to this because I did not see it as a viable comparison. No offense to anyone involved.
You stated yourself that the issues with MAGA lie in the way it is construed and there is logical reasoning for both sides. Well said. That was my whole point.
Why don't you cut through and instead of using the Socratic method of conversing, like another on here, and just spill man? How bout that?
Strange how you focus only on the responses that say an inanimate object cannot be racist while completely ignoring the responses that directly address the challenge you issued. At the top of page 4 KenaiKid gives an excellent response, yet you ignore it. There are also a couple of strong points on page 2 such as Mike in a Town's comment about a KC Royals hat. Again, crickets. So, how about a response to these comments that "Make a few points, use logic, etc."
I too have long wondered how the MAGA slogan is racist. Some posters on this thread have done a very good job explaining how it could be construed that way. This thread is also full of reasons why it is not. This whole thing boils down to whether or not you believe the following statement: One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
KenaiKid addressed me by the wrong name, misquoted me, added a word I did not say, and omitted the rest of my post that gave context. I did respond briefly to that, but I'm not going to reward that behavior with a response. The rest of his post was well thought out.
The KC Royals are not the current political administration nor are they campaigning for office. The Royals hat does not represent an ideology that is controversial in current politics. I did not respond to this because I did not see it as a viable comparison. No offense to anyone involved.
You stated yourself that the issues with MAGA lie in the way it is construed and there is logical reasoning for both sides. Well said. That was my whole point.
Am I being Punk'd here? Is that what's going on?
This response starts with a list complaints to explain why a response will not be given and end by committing the same sins.
In your last paragraph you paraphrased a portion of my post in your own words which is to say you misquoted me and omitted the rest of my post that gave context. You also added multiple words I did not say.
Now I have to go watch that scene from the Princess Bride with the Sicilian and the iocane powder. A truly stunning intellect.
Its not rocket science.In the past america was racist. The hat says that the past was great and they want to go back to that racist past.The hat doesnt implicitly state that but that is the extrapolation of how people who were victims of racism see the past. That is how some people read it.
So,,then anyone wearing the hat is racist simply by acusation.That means anyone is automatically guilty of something just because someone accused them of it.Thats not how its supposed to work.
Go ask a non-white republican if MAGA is racially offensive and they will most likely tell you no. Ask a non-white democrat and they will most likely say yes.
It all amounts to nothing more than partisan bullship!
Most here cant understand why people with a different negative past life experience dont think or see the world like they do.They want things to change not go back to a time that was hurtful to their parents and grandparents.Thats how they see it and it is not wrong for them.They will never see things the same way that we see it. To tell people who live a different reality than you,how they should see and interpret things is arrogant to say the least.
Actually, most here are sick and tired of others trying to control us via their feelings and emotions. It is actually arrogant for one to expect everyone else then to conform with their own views, experiences and opinions...based upon who knows what. Stop living as a victim based the "hurtful times" of our predecessors.
It is a freaking political slogan...not a racist creed.
Every body is entitled to their own opinions. They are not entitled to their own facts. America is the greatest nation to have ever been on this planet, That is a fact based upon the amount of good she (is that sexist?)has done for people at home and abroad. We as a nation have stopped tyranny and liberated Millions of people, . We have raised Millions of people from poverty at home and abroad. We have supplied the tools and knowledge for Millions of people to feed themselves. We have been on the front lines in fighting and eradicating horrible diseases. It is a FACT that most of the people on this planet have ancestors that were slaves. It is a FACT that the slaves that were sold into slavery were captured and sold by members of their own race. It is a FACT that a train load of Americans have bled and died for FREEDOM not just for themselves but for millions of people they would never know. The hat is not racist nor is the slogan. America has been in a slump for a few decades now. She has been there before and it is time for the pendulum to swing the other way. I believe it was Biden that said “they want to put you back in chains “ while addressing a primarily black audience. That is pretty rich seeing as he is one of the most prominent members of the party of slavery. The Democrats founded the KKK and were the staunchest supporters of segregation. As was stated before the race card is the only one they have left to play. What’s next? Is butter racist? After all it’s almost white and comes from cows that are kept against their will.
Some people need to here this other all ready know.
I can not control how others react nor what they perceive as offensive. I can only control how I react. In today's society a lot of people are into finding the smallest thing so they can be outraged over it. Any slight real or imagined it dose not matter. Normally those outraged the most, screaming for tolerance, and claim victim status are in my experience the least tolerant, most hate filled group of people. They tend to lean left but not alway.
I don't understand getting offended? In order to get offended two criteria must be met. 1 I have to respect someone's enought that their opinion matters to me. 2 they have to be relevant to my life. No one seeking to offend me meets both.
A Make America great again hat racist because of slavery in our past. Lol sure. I will wager very few Americans can name a relative that was a slave. They are just wanting an excuse to be a victim and complain. Bad thing have happened in our past and will in our future. It's up to us to react keep it to gather and overcome the obstacles. We can do that better working together than fighting.
It's up to me to take care of myself and family. It's not the government's job to cloth, feed, house,or educate me or my children. We are guaranteed the right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness. But it's up to us to achieve it's not guarantee. Besides without finding a relationship with Jesus I dare to say you will never truly know happiness.
Everything in the country has become political and many people look to point fingers at anyone who does not see everything as they do. The MAGA hat is simply a pro-trump hat and is viewed the same as a campaign poster. I see nothing racist about it. If somebody wore a hat that said vote for bernie, or dump trump, many from the other team would be crying and finding fault with it.
Too many Americans look for any reason to hate other Americans. The divisiveness is bringing us down.
Well, you will never kill a thread with that attitude. As much as it may well pain me, I have to agree with this post in its entirety. Why? because I recognize the truth when I see it, regardless of its source.
Hey Boco, How about Making America Great Again like when Americans who were of African heritage had more 2-parent households than Whites per capita? Democrats destroyed the black family with their "vote for me and I'll give you everything for free as long as the father does not live in your house" This policy may not have been designed to break up the black family, but it certainly did. These days, I have to wonder if the Democrats are proud of how successful breaking up the black family was in garnering such a high percentage of the black vote. That Hat and what it represents is a better America for EVERYONE.
