A better way to handle the Coronavirus Crisis?

Since the Coronavirus adversely effects such a tiny percentage of the population, mostly those over seventy and people with compromised immune systems, would it not make more sense to isolate and quarantine the at risk Americans, rather than younger, healthy, unlikely to be effected, working Americans?

People over 65 make up about 15% of the population. They mostly live in institutions, with other elderly people, or in households with no younger members. Most no longer work. Older people, living with younger people, could be temporarily kept together in nursing homes, until it was safe. They would be easy to quarantine and their quarantine would much less significantly effect our economy.

People with weak immune systems make up less than 3% of the US population and most are elderly too. It is much easier and less disruptive to quarantine a small number of people.

It seems to me everything would be better for more Americans, including our economy, if the lives of healthy Americans were not disrupted. If young, healthy Americans got sick as exposed and quickly got better on their own, allowing the disease to run it's course, while at risk Americans self quarantined, with careful food and life assistance from the healthy, more Americans would stay in better shape financially.

Keith

Sounds good to me. Forbidding people to peaceably assemble when they aren't sick, and have an extremely low risk of getting sick, and have a very low chance of dying or needing hospital care in the rare chance they do get sick, seems obviously unconstitutional, besides being patently stupid. It's nuts.

maybe in ohio , but in WI 60 and up are very much a part of every day life and do not live in institutions . my parents are out and about more than I am.

for those in institutions who will the care givers be to not bring it in they are people with families and kids who would be in school.

the issue is you don't know your carrying it till days after you are contagious

if your looking for a conspiracy theory that fits , the president , everyone left running for president , most of congress , many governors , state assemblies and mayors are in this high risk 60+ category and they don't want to die.

you gave the numbers your self 15% are over 65 and 3% are immune deficient 18% of the population that is 1 in 5.5 people when your trying to hide 1 in 5.5 people while the virus infects tens of millions good luck.

also you still loose a healthy person for a minimum 14 days

what are the costs to having a significant portion of your country very sick vs the costs of having a quarantine

As mentioned, sometimes the older folks travel a lot more than I do. Under normal circumstances of course. Older people tend to have money to travel when they want. Please don't take what I said the wrong way.

Listening to the news this morning, a similar thought occurred to me. Once the smoke clears, there is going to be a lot of second guessing going on. All with the benefit of hindsight, which is always 20:20.

But if you were in the public policy business......a politician.......based on what folks are telling you is going to happen, would you make the choice to do what they are doing and tank the economy........or make the other choice, which is to simply warn folks to scatter and lay low or else, and let them take their chances, knowing that as many as 3 to 5 million Americans are likely to die. The old, sick and infirm, plus a few others.....and maybe even you. That way, all the hoarding and all the other nonsense goes away and life goes on.......albeit with a lot fewer folks. Many of which may not make it anyway, but almost certainly won't when there are 10 sick people for every space available to treat them.

And BTW, you gotta make that choice now.......not sometime down the road when more is known.

The choice offered here.......sequester those most likely to be affected and let the rest go about their business.......might well prove to have been the best option of them all.....but even that is tainted, as they are already getting empirical data to make choices from that they didn't have as recently as a week or two ago.

Most people over 65 in the entire US, either live in an institution, on their own, or with a spouse, with no younger household members. It is considerably easier and cheaper to quarrantine and financially support, if needed, 15% of the population, who mostly does not work, than everyone.

People don't have to hide, just stay home or in temporary safe homes.

My idea is still disruptive and expensive. It is less so than the current mess.

Keith

You like having fuel for your truck, car, home? A disproportionate number of hazmat tankers are driven by men over sixty. I see a lot of grey hair and beards while I am at the racks loading, easily forty-fifty % are over 60. I’m 66. They don’t let driving school trainees haul gasoline for obvious reasons. We are constantly swamped with work and if the OP’s plan was implemented there would be a lot of gas stations with bags over the pump nozzles.
There are a lot of unintended consequences to any plan of action. Things that most of us wouldn’t think of until that O-S moment slaps us upside our head. Take out 40% of the drivers then have an additional 50-60% get sick
because of our increased exposure, say truckstops, then those bags start covering nozzles on the diesel pumps
and then it’s food and medicine that ain’t getting delivered. Can you say FUBAR? I’ll take my chances with the experts plan. Y’all have a nice day.

You have no idea what proportion of medical folks are over 60 or even 65, especially in research. If everyone younger was to freely associate there would be waves of infected people who needed medical assistance and although few might die from the disease they would overwhelm a system that already is often stretched thin. Then begin removing older medics who become infected, some fatally and the system would break. This may all happen even with the restrictions of movement currently suggested but the consensus of the best minds of our highly educated and experienced pros inside and outside of government offers our best opportunity to weather the virus. In Italy and now apparently in Spain as well, the medical systems were/are being overwhelmed by virus laden ill folks, to the degree that in some cases the most infirm(read OLD) are not being given the best treatments because there are just too many and the care is reserved for those who have better chances of survival. Then what happens to those who have lifes usual maladies, to the cancer patients, the folks who have strokes, heart attacks, appendix ruptures, severe infections etc, are they just left to fend for themselves or die at home unattended? That is surely what the medical profession is attempting to deal with and our government is attempting to do all it can to assist. People who insist that they will do as they wish whenever and wherever they wish are or will be additional problems for both medics and governing bodies.

Since you have all the answers why don't you run for president.

[quote=KeithC]Since the Coronavirus adversely effects such a tiny percentage of the population, mostly those over seventy and people with compromised immune systems, would it not make more sense to isolate and quarantine the at risk Americans, rather than younger, healthy, unlikely to be effected, working Americans?

People over 65 make up about 15% of the population. They mostly live in institutions, with other elderly people, or in households with no younger members. Most no longer work. Older people, living with younger people, could be temporarily kept together in nursing homes, until it was safe. They would be easy to quarantine and their quarantine would much less significantly effect our economy.

People with weak immune systems make up less than 3% of the US population and most are elderly too. It is much easier and less disruptive to quarantine a small number of people.

It seems to me everything would be better for more Americans, including our economy, if the lives of healthy Americans were not disrupted. If young, healthy Americans got sick as exposed and quickly got better on their own, allowing the disease to run it's course, while at risk Americans self quarantined, with careful food and life assistance from the healthy, more Americans would stay in better shape financially.



Keith[/quote
Really, what you are saying is just plain common sense. I couldn't agree more. Surprised the "experts" haven't thought of it.

Looks like the most vulnerable's 401ks are hemorrhaging again today.

my wife dispatches LP and refined fuels and you are correct they have 1 younger driver all the rest are late 50s and many in their 60s

you also know that they have tried hiring guys in their 30s and 40s and they do not work out very often one heating season and they find another job , it is a demanding job with a lot of 12 hour + days all winter delivering LP even though they should be off the road at 12 hours every time there is a cold snap the governor relaxes the rules so that there isn't a max number of hours you can drive that bomb down the road.

rules for driver safety should not get relaxed , there should be greater incentive for the companies to keep enough drivers and trucks around but finding hazmat driver now for LP and fuel delivery is hard. an incentive to train new drivers.

Greencountrypete, the only way to get experience is years under a steering wheel. its called hazardous material for reason. the test is difficult. less than half pass on the first try. many never do. its not about training new drivers at all. its about attracting old hands. guys that can work anywhere they want and already have a job they like.

so if a company does find more drivers that are qualified and want to take the job, what do they do with them in the summer?. you think truckers are the only guys working long hours time to time?

do some checking and find out how many car semi accidents are the fault of the trucker. yes there are some genuine boneheads driving trucks, but very very few of them haul fuel.

I agree that 99% of all CDL vs 4wheeler accidents are the 4wheeler's fault . but if they set a standard they should not relax that standard when ever it is convenient for the the regulator it is either a safety standard or it is a joke.

if you aren't ready to be a real driver , carpenter , plumber , electrician or anything else by 30 then your a useless lump that should be put out. we don't NEED 65 year olds driving because they are the only ones who can drive we have it because it seems they are the majority of the ones who remember how to work hard.

Why doesnt the gubmint supply everyone with a bubble to wear?

They are going to start shipping these out next week. Social distancing doughnuts for safe shopping experiences and also to prevent Canadians from getting to close throughout the year.

Well fellas. This is the way it works. All senior assisted livings. Nursing homes are on lock down. My communities are one of them. In elderly or compromised health you are to quarantine. The problem is you need supplies basic needs to live. The virus can live on healthy people and not effect them. But a healthy individual can be a carrier. That is the problem It is odorless tasteless and it is invisible. By the time the symptoms do appear it is to late. One individual can spread it to 35 and so and so on. This is why stopping all non essential community gatherings is so important. Bottom line. Think of others. Help out. This will be over. And life goes on.

Very well said Pete!

Thank you. Like all of you. I have had it up to my eye balls with this. But that being said we have to protect others. We as trappers are great people. We just have to get main stream people to do what needs to be done.

I am one of those people you are talking about and I might just look at it differently.

I drove over yesterday afternoon and picked up my 90 year old neighbor and then went 40 miles in to town and got our 95 year old friend. We then went to one of the watering holes, ate prime rib with cabbage ( no corned beef here ), drank some iced green tea, paid a $5 cover charge for the band and made a few rounds on the dance floor with the " lasses ". Had a good time on St. Pat's Day and came home.

I was a little tired as I had gone up to Guthrie, Oklahoma over the weekend for the Rodeo Timed Event Championship at the Lazy E Arena. They did not cancel the event but had sanitized the facilities with a 10% bleach solution three times. There was only about 3 or 4 thousand people there Saturday night. I feel fine today.

I am in mid 70's, have heart disease, artery disease, arthritis, and diabetes. I work with my horses on a daily basis and trap predators as the need arises.

But if you try to quarantine me or take my guns, you better bring yours.

" allowing the disease to run it's course"???

Well it's going to run it's course....How many it will run over is determined by how serious WE take it and how many it Is spread to.

Latest estimates states (ON the low end) 1.6 million Americans WILL contract Covid- 19. And more realistic numbers are well over 2 million.


I am already seeing some positives with this semi quarantine locally. I see families out walking together. No longer do parents dump their kids off after school for sporting event (Or whatever activity). Families are forced to start interacting like families again. It's kind of like turning the clock back 50 years in some regards. Now if we can get the electronic devices out of the kids (and the parents) for more than 10 minutes, we might actually make some real progress.

The idea of socially distancing yourself shouldn’t mean front seat to back seat. Nor should it mean dancing in a place that might get you the cough of a lifetime. Really guys, staying home and out of crowds for a while isn’t going to kill us. But being in crowds with a bunch at the bar, dance floor, or even in a vehicle could be the beginning of a fast end.

There's a lot of us over 65 who are active. I'm still trapping beavers 5 days a week, and I'm fixin to be 71. Rhonda is 67 and is very active. The fella who takes care of beavers for the other timber company district is 76 and is still going strong. Perhaps those who are 80 and up may be more likely to fit your scenario of being needed to be taken care of.

The nice thing about beaver'n is that i don't have any human contact.

Maybe it would be easier just to quarantine all the first born. Oh, wait that was a different time and place.

We just got the first case confirmed here in Southern Illinois so its in the country now !

Typhoid Mary didn't get Typhoid Fever either, but she sure did spread it around. Kids mixing it up at school pick it up and take it home to their younger parents that go to work at a restaurant or factory or a place where they come in contact with lots of people. You have got to break the chain or flatten the curve. Locking us over 60 people up because it's no big deal doesn't seem like a good plan to me. But that's just my opinion. You have got to slow down the spread.

I'd like to see you get those tman members over 65 to go to a nursing home over this, LOL.

Some nursing homes are pretty nice,only problem-too many old people there.

Keith my 85 year old dad suggested something very similar. He and my 82 year old mom live at home. He just figured it better for young folk to develop an immunity while old folks avoid crowds and such. Think he figures it's better for old folks to lay low than it is to quarantine young folks and crash the economy. Since he grew up on the backside of the Great Depression I don't think he wishes for anybody to have to live like that.

There is no easy solution to this pandemic. People are going to be angry, hurt financially, even bankrupted and some will die, no matter what is done at this point. I think the best thing to do is to prevent the largest number of people from having their lives destroyed.

I realize that some Americans still work past 65, most do not. I also realize that most, but not all older Americans are better off financially than younger working Americans, many of whom live pay check to pay check.

The current slow down of the disease is causing experts to predict this crisis will last 18 to 24 months in the US. I understand that slowing down the spread, to avoid overwhelming our medical system will save more at risk lives. The problem is that many, many more lives will be ruined as people go broke and we are forced into socialism.

No one person is going to be able to come up with a complete solution to the pandemic. Many people working together will solve it.

The reason I phrased the post title and first sentences as questions, is that I wanted constructive input. People need to pull together to work on a solution, not get angered because they mistakenly think they are being picked on because of their age. The solution will likely still be inconvient for many or even all of us.

Keith

15% seems like a small number...until you do the math

Correct Keith. I agree with you 100 percent. We must work togather. Do are part whatever that means for u as an individual. I highly doubt the country won't get back on its feet. The quicker we break this chain. The sooner we will all get back doing what we do best. WORK!!!!

15% is a huge number of people, but much less than 100%, who suffer otherwise. We need to be in triage mode. There is not going to be any perfect solution, just better or worse ones. I am glad I am not the president.

Keith

Keith I take your point and for one am not angry in the least. Just pointing out that there are a lot of people that are past 60 that are an integral part of the solution. Just saw a clip on Fox about a daughter and her father who is a doctor in the ER at seventy something and lovin’ it. She said she knows he’s still going strong and will never retire. Also saw a young man on spring break on a beach somewhere tell the interviewer he was not concerned about getting the bug. He figured he would get it and so would the interviewer. When she asked if he was concerned about infecting someone else with a higher risk factor he just said no. Agree with you that we are all in this together and the struggle will be won by a combination of many from all walks of life pulling together.

I also called dispatch and told them that if they had plenty of drivers to cover the loads that I would “volunteer “ to take the day off. As I have started receiving one part of my retirement benefits I figure missing a day of work will not effect me as much as it would one of the “younger “ guys LOL. I think the youngest driver we have is about 49. Anyway hope everyone stays safe and well as possible. MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA AND MAKE HER BURDENS BE LIGHT.

Your post almost sounds as if you're suggesting that older people should give up their lives, so that your's won't be interrupted!

Yes, older people should do what they can to avoid catching this, but that in no way should include committing themselves to a nursing home to do so!