My FHA fur is now posted

I may have a top lot cooon? 4x A-b, I am rich now lol.

SAD it use to be that a top lot coon would bring around $50 ? any guess on the top price on coon will be ? my guess is around $20, I know the avg. is all that matters.

My third year shipping coyotes to Fur harvesters and still haven't got a heavy one.

Did you expect a few heavy yotes from Kansas or Mississippi...?

I have had coyotes go heavy at NAFA from Kansas.

What part of KS? Just checked and I had a few from the eastern side go heavy, most are semi though.

Just check my account and I get an error. Been getting that all day.

Always had a few heavy at NAFA. I trap in Marshall county.

will they send me an account number or do I have to call them. This is the first time I shipped to them

I sold for cash a month ago and am enjoying my hard earned money now!

Amen to that ,,, me too

I think coyotes on different years have the ability to be heavy or semi's from your part of the world.
Or the grade does change with the market

Same here.

Joe, I only have a couple heavys too. Ks ain't known for lots of heavys. One of the reasons you had more heavys at nafa was they were cheating the grade, trying to get more money in their coffers last spring. Understand they had some fur returned from manufacturers becaus of it too. Their cataloges last year had a very high persentage of the coyotes graded as heavys.

Daryl and backroadsarcher, If you keep getting it, call or email them, be best to talk with them, and have them help you straighten it out.

I am getting the "fatal error" message also.
Before that it looked like one half my coyotes were heavy II and half were eastern--none in central.

fatal error for me also...system overload I would think

Me too

All the HVY coyotes grade for MS coyotes at NAFA , maybe one of the reasons they are now bankrupt ?

I was surprised at how closely my coyote graded to previous NAFA grades (or sections). Had 25% in Hvy 1 section, about 50% in Hvy 2 (SEMI grade) and 25% Eastern (with Hvy grade).

I think FHA has NAFAs old coyote grader now. Correct me if I'm wrong though. That is probably the reason for similar grading.

You guys might be crying after the FHA sale.

Someone will be

I hope FHA. Hits a home run and everyone is happy. I sold the majority of mine to Petska and Grony,

Forestman3
You guys might be crying after the FHA sale. [/quote]

Boy I hope so ,,, I hope have the best sale they have had in years myself ,,, only way you can keep trapping is if sell good everybody makes alittle.

AMEN!

Thats weird,I was on another site where everyone was saying their yotes were downgaded last year at NAFA,lol.

I don't know how this sales is going to go but it sure is nice to be talking about lotting, grading and fur auctions rather than that other crap.

i have 1 heavy coyote , how did this go from top lot coon price to a heavy coyote ? lol

Still getting fatal error this morning. Anyone else still getting this?

I just called a couple of minutes ago and the gal said they hoped to get it back online by the end of the day.

Only took 3 posts to switch from coon to coyote, and the first two were yours.
Thanks for starting the FHA thread anyway.

Thank You Sanford!!

Back to the coon topic, does anyone know which section is FHA best coon? Thinking maybe West HVY?

Maybe FHA caught the NAFA virus?

X2! I called this A.M. She said call back. Remember they are on EST.

Yes typically the top lot is in the western heavies. Look for a lot that has very few in it and are A selects. Usually between 20-40 skins. LLL

My coyotes graded about 1/3 as heavies at FHA, for the last few years at NAFA, they were running about 50%. To my untrained eye, the 1/3 seems accurate as hanging side by side in the garage, that's about what I came up with.

My account is back online.

Can finally look at mine. Looks like the grading is a little different this year.?.?

Yes, I agree.

Anybody know the order of sale?

How so?

Most likely catalog order. I believe beaver is first thing up.

Got into mine at around 5 PM. First time reading FHA grades and sizing so will wait until they sell to see the differences in sizes and grades. My 3x-2x and xl sizes were about as they normally are percentage wise. I felt I had more smaller rats this year, but there were more XL rats so yes a few less 3x-2x but about 35% of the total.

Bryce

Wissmiss,
Are you a registered buyer and able to view the sale?

Yes. However, I am not able to share information with any one. The bidding is confidential and not to be shared. Not worth losing my buyer account at FHA. Sorry.

Guess I'm guilty about switching this from top lot coon to coyotes, but it's better than politics and corona virus. Lol . Hope they have good clearances.

The bidding is confidential...? Is this something with this expedient virtual sale or something that FHA does on a regular basis?? How then does a seller even know there's bidding going and its not FHA's version of NAFA's "private treaty" sales...?

Thanks, I figured you were. and didn't expect you to be sharing of bidding during the sale.
But I am curious as a new shipper what to expect for updates. Does FHA update trapper account pages during the sale, or as each species catalog is completed, or does that all come after the sale is complete?

As far as I know, this is the first online auction they have had. Not many other choices with the flu shutting everything down. Manufactures needed products, I am told, and want some way of buying. That is the best they can do, so lets hope things sell well. I doubt you will find out much on prices till after the sale, because it will be in a format more like ebay, where it can be bid on up till a certain date and time. Please be patient, as there is a lot riding on this sale, and with the success of other internet sales, this could be our best shot with the cards that have been delt this season with this kung flu. Good luck everyone!

When is sale. It was postpone I understood.

Nobody knows. That's the thing. It's like surprise sale. Nobody knows it's happening until it already happened and nobody knows what the bids are until after the sale. It could be this week it could be next month

The remote auction at FHA starts tomorrow (Tuesday) morning at 8 AM eastern time. It ends April 2 at 5 PM eastern time.

Any one that is a registered buyer can check the bidding at any time. It is going to work sort of like an auction on eBay. The bidding will start at the FHA valuation. If a buyer wants to bid, he logs into his account and enters a bid. The auction catalog is updated with the new bid and shows a code number for the high bidder. If there aren’t any bids, then the valuation will show with no buyer code listed.

Bidding at the auction will be in established increments. Which depends on species and amounts. Here is an example.

Muskrats - if the bid is under $10.00, the bid increment is 10 cents. Once the price is over $10.00, the bid increment is 25 cents.

Valuation on #1 small muskrats is $1.00. The next bid is $1.10. The next bid is $1.20. Then $1.30. Just like in the auction room.

There won’t be much for shippers to see until the auction is over and accounts are updated when the auction is over.

Remember, this is the first time FHA has had a remote auction. There is always there is a chance there will be glitches, but I hope not.

I would be happy to answer any question about how the auction is going to work but will not discuss values, bids or anything similar.

Will be interesting to see how this sale goes. Curious how confident buyers will be about buying goods without seeing them. I've heard lots of times that the grades and catalog doesn't necessarily represent what the fur really is. So I can only figure that confidence will be low. I wouldn't think they would be holding the sale unless they think the can move some goods though.
Mike

AkMike makes a very good point about buyer confidence in the grade. There was a point in time, many years ago, where you could buy goods at FHA sight unseen based on the catalog description. In more recent years, that has not always been the case.

When it comes to the more expensive goods, such as wolves, wolverine, better lynxcats, there is good reason to be cautious. However, on goods such as Section III goods or goods like beaver. Muskrat, Raccoon, where the market is so poor, a buyer can almost afford to gamble on submitting a bid without seeing the goods.

One other note, FHA is not accepting any bids below valuation during their remote auction.

If the value is $20.00 and a buyer bids $18.00, the bid will automatically be rejected.

This is different from a live auction. In the auction room, the auction stand may or may not accept a bid below valuation. Depending on the item and grade.

That should be a comfort to you that think this might be a fire sale.

Thank you Wissmiss and Lee Steinmeyer once again. You are both constant sources of info. based on logic and reason and first hand sourcing. You spare us the shooting from the hip that is all too common on this forum and a waste of cyberspace and all of our time. Please continue.

Hey wissmiss, are you able to share with us if there is actual bidding going on for certain species? No values, but just knowing that there is some demand and bidding happening would be reassuring.

Thanks,
Houts

Best of luck to all with fur on this sale. Really hoping this goes good.

Fingers crossed for the sale. Hopefully it goes well.
I’m a little nervous about my big bear, hard to get any price on taxidermy items without actually putting your hands on them to check them out.
Might be the best thing since sliced bread! Hopefully

So as a shipper do any of you know what your valuations are?
Do you even know what lots your fur Is In?

Good luck

Beav yes our the lots are posted and viewable on our account info the valuations..no

Thanks crosspatch. Nancy has been involved in the buying end for many years, and knows the auction protocol very well. She is a book of knowledge, and we can all thank her for sharing with us. I've been a trapper all my life, bought fur for a few years back in the boom years, and have been an agent for 22 years. Both of us can add a little different perspective to the discussion.

One thing that bothers me on this forum is the amount of people that spout the doom and gloom. The negetive comments, spouted off like a prophet, just become a cancer that effects the whole fur industry. We all know times are tough for fur, so try to have a better outlook on it! thanks, Lee

I'm a realist. I think FHA is a motivated seller. Time will tell. Sorry for the doom and gloom.

Gary, no valuations to the trapper. Only buyers see valuations. What good does it do to see them, doesn't change what you can do, and the fur brings what is bid, with or with out valuations.

The lot numbers are listed on each fur or furs on yoour readout. You can go to the catalogs to find where your fur is and in what section or string.

The valuations tell me where FHA thinks the market is. It tells me if FHA is a viable option. Why keep it from sellers?

Very true!!!

Dirt, that still won't do you any good. You will find out what it brought after, and if you have sent fur, there is no getting it back or changing anything. If that give you peace of mind, you to attatched to a computer!

It is just more busy work that needs to get done with no worth.

Because they'd have a million calls with guys complaining that their raccoons are worth more etc. Or God forbid something sold for a dollar less than the valuation than omg fire sale. It would be nothing but a headache for them.

It would have value to me. I won't explain. Thanks to lee and wissmiss for info.

As far as reporting auction action, I’m thinking there won’t be much to report. Remember the auction lasts for 9 days. Until April 2. Bids will trickle in over that period of time. Watching this auction will be like watching paint dry.

It will be the exact opposite of a live auction, where lots sell at a rapid pace.

Right now I am trying to log in to the auction. Having problems finding the bidding site. DON’T panic. Lots of time to figure it out.

Nancy If I give you my lot numbers could you please bid them up for me?

I agree with both of these posts.

I have fur that will hopefully go on the next sale so yes I would like to see a valuation.

Folks that have used FHA in the past, were you able to see valuations prior to the sales?

Nope

Unfortunately no. Sorry.

If I do it for you, then everyone would ask and it would be overwhelming for me.

In my opinion, the reason FHA doesn’t post valuations on shippers accounts is that in a down market like this, valuations upset shippers. And upset shippers tend to call and complain. This creates more work and time spent for the FHA staff. Yes, shippers are important but at this stage of the game it is more important to answer buyers questions so that they feel confident bidding.

I'm sorry guys, it don't make any sense. You will have the results of the sale on your account, long before you have to send your fur for the next sale, the LRD was the 19 of April, and it was pushed back at least two weeks. Don't need valuations to make a decision about sending fur.

Showing valuations would do a ton of good, it would hold Fha accountable and a lot less easy to dump something. It make the buyers know you better come to bid and be reasonable and close to the valuations. It would probably reduce the yo-yo in prices we have seen for so long. We better not hear in a couple months how groeny came in and cleaned up what was left at the auction for less then what was being paid in the country

X2

X3

X3

Spot on thanks for answering the questions you can.

As stated above, to me valuations would help hold the line on how much things are being sold below that. A small percentage below the valuation to me anyway is not a big deal but when stuff starts selling 25 or 50% below the estimated value is when I start asking questions. So yes that's why I would like to know what the difference between valuation and actual price paid. With that said I hope they have a fantastic sale and the next one is even better.

Imo valuations are only a ,,I hope to get price,, if you want them to hold the line ,,, no matter what only way of doing that is selling one on one. Besides theres only so much fur you can keep stored for long extend times in a market like we got.
Hopefully all will sell good everybody be sitting good.

The FHA information sheet for remote auction bidders said that bids below valuation would not be accepted. I’m assuming the computer program is set up to reject those bids if a buyer tries to enter one.

Maybe I will play around and see what happens. I will report back later today.

I have 2 new accounts and both work fine, wasnt able to register until about a week ago but now good to go

China has basically worked their way through the virus and are about 90% or more back to work. That may be a positive for the auction. The larger issue may be their markets and are they going to be buying or not.

Bryce

THATS OK , LOL we are talking fur at FHA , I hope we all do good for the times

I just got my new account number this morning after I requested it. Tried to register my account online and it's not letting me. Not sure what the problem is. I suppose I'll have to send them a help message.

Even if FHA did publish valuations for shippers to see, some of you still wouldn’t be satisfied. Then you would complain that the valuations were too low and that FHA was giving the fur away and they ought to have higher limits and that the low valuations help the buyers buy fur cheaper. Yada. Yada. Yada. Blah. Blah. Blah.

You have to realize that FHA (and NAFA when they were in business) needs a starting point for selling each lot. It simply does NOT work to start every lot at a penny. The valuation is what the team at FHA thinks that particular lot of fur is worth. They base it on market, research, what the pelts are and what they think is a fair starting price. Some times they are spot on. Sometimes they aren’t.

I’ve been in auction room where there is only one bid. A buyer raises his hand at the opening price. No one else bids and he buys that lot.

I’ve been in the auction room (in this when they selling wolves) and the opening valuation is $50.00. A minute or so later, the hammer goes down at $325.00. Was the valuation wrong. Not necessarily. Could just be that 2 buyers wanted that same pelt. Valuation didn’t mean squat.

Back in the days before all this high tech stuff, you shipped your fur and 2 weeks after the auction you got a check and a grade sheet.none of this checking the computer every day looking for updates. Maybe we should do back to that system.................

Not really if you are using NAFA as your example. They posted valuations for both buyer and seller but it didn't seem to make much difference.

I get it that the buyers need valuation for an internet auction like this one, so everyone knows where to start. But I did question the practice of providing valuation to buyers at a true auction format in the past. It seems like that should have been kept confidential to the auction house since they were not firm on it anyway, and often started bidding below valuation just to get rolling.

For you guys that can't log in. When you register your name and address it has to be exactly the same as your invoice. I tried a few times before I read the fine print. On the invoice it had Ave. after my street name.

Correct me if wrong but isn't the fur still owned by the seller until the gavel drops or the buyer pays for the fur? Either way I just don't agree with the auction house keeping the sellers, (owners) of the fur in the dark and giving the buyers the valuation. Looks like to me the deck is stacked in the buyers favor.

I guess if you can put together enough fur for a dealer lot you could set your own valuation.

At the present time, FHA is not accepting dealer lots with limits. They made that announcement last winter when this whole NAFA thing started.

Dealer lots will sell for what ever valuation FHA puts on them or dealer goods will be intersorted.

Thank you for your information Wissmiss, some member on here have a short memory of the happenings, and a lot of posters don't even have a skin in the game to start with.

I'm with Dirt-they should publish the valuations of all grades and sections before the fur pick up.
Allows a buisness man to make an informed decision about how he wants to market part or all of his fur collection.
Most trappers that market substantial amounts of fur and been around for a while doing so can pretty much know the valuation anyway from previous sales.

you will do well on bear like you have!

I also have a bunch of bears there and same thing I cant see to many guys wanting to buy them without seeing them firsthand first

Bump-

Can't let this one slip off the page. We finally have a fur auction topic with more posts than all the CV crap.

This is important that everybody has hopes and dreams, but we really won't get any useful information (hopefully) in two or three weeks, right before the April 19 deadline.

In the mean time, any tidbits of information from those in the know will be appreciated.
Thanks

I know one thing, its gonna be a long 9 days. Coulda made it a 3 day sale at least. Wonder why 9 days?

I'm not sure exactly how much difference it makes but if the dollar keeps dropping in value like it is nine days might not be a bad thing

You would think that If someone wanted fur It wouldn't take 9 days to get It sold.

I thought because of the time that they where only opening up certain lots for bidding not all of them at once. Sounds like all lots are open from bidding from the start. There goes my theory.

Are they running all the lots of fur just like you would bid on something on ebay?

Yes, Buyers will bid on the lots they are interested in. All lots are for sale all day until the end of the sale..

It was posted elsewhere, that no buybacks. If so, dont sound like a sale I want to be into, with covid crisis, it nice to have all sold. But nafa buybacks were. Sold at better prices later

Dave, I would guess if no one bids on a specific lot (value set to high) it would be "bought back" and re offered later, possibly at a reduced valuation.

I assume there will be plenty of unsold goods at this FHA auction. Lots that no one bids on. Those would be considered Buy Backs.

Wissmiss hows the castor being sold? do they have broken into lots or like the live auction its PT after?

Well I would call them unsold goods since no money changed hands. But buy backs sounds better. LOL

Castor will be sold Private Treaty once the remote auction is over. That pretty much has been the pattern previous years. Castor will be graded into 3 lots. Select. Ordinary, Shells/lows. It will be priced per pound or ounce (not sure which FHA uses). Buyers can buy as much as they want at the established price.

I have no idea how many castor buyers FHA will have. Could be dozens. Maybe one guy comes in and buys it all.

Will be posted to your online account some time in April or when ever the sale happens.

yep like years past then, was just curious if they changed it up due to the online E-Bay style auction. thanks for the quick responses.

Without getting into details hows the volume of bids? would imagine it would be slow the first couple of days and hopefully pick up as the auction nears its end.

They took into consideration that they thought that Saskatchewan was still all dial-up internet, so it would take 9 days for you to download info.

Someone posted an i was told that they didn't want buybacks? I am thinking that impossible not to

FHA would like to sell everything. But they know that isn’t going to happen. I’m willing to bet that not even half the goods get sold. That is just my opinion.

And here I thought it was because they knew it would take that long to sell all the crappy fur from east of Saskatchewan. Lol.

Sure glad I sold it the country a month ago and am now enjoying the money that my fur brought!

Thanks for your two posts (you posted the same on page 1 last Saturday) on the subject that are exactly the same......informative contribution to the subject!!

Intermission. I have to get more popcorn.

x2 on that

This could be the second time, in my 13 years of sending to the auction houses. That I would have done better selling in the country, Maybe?

I think anyone that sent fur to this auction should'nt judge FHA on the success of this sale. The world is in upheaval, equity markets are shot (at least for now) retail fur sales in all of Asia fell flat on their face this winter, Asia was CG's hope for market expansion this year. And, last but not least, how can you buy fur without looking at it yourself or at least through a broker you have trust in? I wish them great luck as we don't need another North American wild fur auction to fold.

pray and Hope for the best is all we can do

X2

LLtrapper posted "What I have been told is that it is a sale not an auction. If you were to call and offer the full price, it is yours. Greg told me there were two types of buyers on this sale. The ones who wanted fur and the Chinese and GFW. Don't kill the messenger. That is what he said. He also said the latter were getting the dial tone....No fire sale in other words. LLL"

How many people have fur marked as sold that was shipped up this year? I saw where some posted they did.

Mark, the fur marked as sold, is fur they sold PT before the current sale. Nothing will be posted till after the second of April.

For you guys that were aurguing about valuations. I spoke with Les Barnes, the old nafa agent here in Ks the other day. I mentioned that nafa must have really spoiled everyone. He ask, how so. I told him about the thread here. He said you are all blowing smoke, that nafa had quit that at least eight years ago, because it caused too much extra work and did nothing but cause controversy! So there you have it, it ain't gonna happen!

Well hes full of agit because it was posted the last few sales you just needed to know where to look. So ya someone is blowing smoke alright.

Is that the guy that helped bankrupt some company in Canada?

Lee, So it was sold before the auction, even though it was shipped to be put on this auction? I can see left over good being sold pt, but not stuff that has never hit the floor. So do we have a bidding auction, like ebay or a sale going on? LLtrapper says Greg said its a sale, not a auction.

Here are NAFA valuations from Jan-2019 We all know how this turned out.
ACCOUNT_ID VARIETY VARIETY_FR SEX LOT BREEDER GRADE GRADE_SORT
92554 RACCOON RATON LAVEUR N 434034 N SEL 15 XXL 20 12
92554 RACCOON RATON LAVEUR N 434046 N SEL 15 XXL 20 10
92554 RACCOON RATON LAVEUR N 434058 N SEL 15 XXL 20 8
92554 RACCOON RATON LAVEUR N 434133 N I-II 30 XXL 20 7
92554 RACCOON RATON LAVEUR N 434188 N I-II 30 XL 25 5
92554 RACCOON RATON LAVEUR N 434661 N SEL 15 4XL 10 19
92554 RACCOON RATON LAVEUR N 434670 N SEL 15 3XL 15 10
92554 RACCOON RATON LAVEUR N 434675 N SDA 28 4XL 3XL 10 12
92554 RACCOON RATON LAVEUR N 434685 N I-II 30 4XL-3XL 10 9.5
92554 LYNX CAT LYNX ROUX N 435153 N I 20 LGE 30 100 1

That info from les is wrong, nafa put valuations on the shippers fur. You had to know where to look.

Hard to believe the amount of people that are ok with being treated like a mushroom by fha.
Your probably right about not gonna happen though.

I tried to post on this right after kingrats response, then lost it. I got better things to do than argue about it, and I will let Les know and thank him for the eroneous info. Still don't change things, Fur Harvesters ain't gonna do it just because a few guys seem to think it's so important. I've told you my opinion, you have told me yours, I'm done with it!

Ok fair enough.

I am also done here after I post one more thought.
To the folks reading this, when is the last time you sold something and had no idea what the asking price or the approximate valuation was on the item that you were trying to sell???

I trust fha to a certain point, but I prefer the trust but verifie route.
As in I trust fha but i would very much like some verification on valuation in print to make sure they really do have my best interest in mind.
After all dosen't Fha say they are owned by trappers and run by trappers??? Shouldn't they be able to do better at keeping the trapper and the owner of the fur in the loop a little better?? Or no??
Good luck trappers!!

Will the shipper ever actually know what his or her fur was valued at before the sale?

In my opinion it was foolish to let anyone know valuations on a live auction. The only one that needs to know is the auctioneer, to drop the hammer or not.

This internet sale I see the need to post it so buyers know what is the starting bid, and they will not accept any less.

That used to happen frequently at NAFA where some fresh lots would be sold private treaty prior to the auction. My experience was that those pre auction deals were usually at premium pricing.

Well when NAFA had their auction you could hear the starting price And I assume that was the starting valuation.

When there was competative bidding in the room the starting price was usually close to the sale price on the previous lot. But yes, when the room was silent the starting price was valuation as they went through pages of buy backs.

BINGO!!

For this FHA remote sale, the valuation is posted in the catalog the registered buyers use to bid. The valuation is the starting point for bidding. The computer program will NOT accept bids below the FHA limit.

Auction company valuations are the auction company’s opinion of what the fur is worth. It may be spot on. It may be too high. It may be too low.

The only thing that will happen if shippers know the valuations, is that the number of phone calls to FHA will increase. And for the most part, they will be upset phone calls.

Fyi
Yes but the shippers never know what the valuation is or if if changes during the the sale or auction . Up

Not that I can see. I guess if it sells, they will know what it brought.

Hey wissmiss- I know you weren't going to mention any specific lots or people's lots but if this on-line auction is like ebay, you should be able to see if people have bit on lots or not. At least from the a sellers side, I know which of my auctions have a bid on it or not. Now, you could probably commit without talking about specific lots or prejudicing any biding by saying, "yeah, I see a good number of lots that have a bid" or "lot of lots don't appear to have any bids on them". Otherwise, this is going to stay really boring until next Thurs evening...

I was thinking of asking the same thing, let's say coyotes, is there lots of offers, beaver,rats etc,
Anything you can give us....I'm going crazy

It is still very early. On eBay, lots of people wait until the last minute to bid. Probably will be the same way with this auction.

So that's a nice way of saying theres no bids boys...?

Wissmiss. You have GREAT patience. Thanks

Look guys. I’m between a rock and a hard place. I check the online auction once a day, just to see what is going on. I would love to share trends and general details with all of you. But I can’t.

I emailed FHA about this situation and the reply I got back from Mark Downey (CEO) said that anything going on with the on line auction is confidential. No reason given. He further indicated that posting information about the on line auction could result in the cancelling of my bids - yes I am bidding on a few things - and the closing of my account.

Not worth the risk, as far as I’m concerned. So all of you wondering about how the sale is going will just have to patiently wait another.4 days.

If FHAs response changes, I will let you know. In the mean, try to find something to do besides wonder about the sale. Look towards May, when hopefully it will be a live auction from North Bay and you will be able listen in real time.

Thanks for the update Wissmiss.
Now If I do this right; 4 ice cubes go into tonights drink.
Then 3 ice cubes in tommorrows.
then 2 cubes
Then one.
Finally Diborgja

NAFA has posted the March 2020 private treaty catalogs if anyone is interested.

That doesn't fit all models of how people bid on ebay. If an item is "hot", there are often bids right away, and sometimes the bidding drama ends, for all real purposes, before the the final day. Often, a person is going to know things will be jumping when I get an offer of "what will it take for me to close the auction now?" Then there are the examples that wissmiss described, where the action goes up right at the end, especially the peeps that never bid until the last couple of minutes.

Thanks for the communication there wissmiss. I hope you make some trappers day on April 2!!

Thanks wissmiss we totally understand and thanks, just going a little stir crazy.

Do you have a link or a way to access the catalogs.

When I log into my NAFA account, it says Private Treaty catalogs are closed.

I was just looking at them 1/2 hour ago. I'll check again.

https://account.nafa.ca/page.asp?auction/catalogue

Not sure if this will work for you. I had to log in to get there.

Much reduced Chinese New Year sales and the ranch mink glut did not get addressed substantively this year most likely. Corona has to have negatively affected other markets like S. Korea and Italy too as in who is buying in such uncertain economic times and the winter is over now anyway. Has to be lots of unsold inventory out there. We should brace ourselves then for poor clearances and not improved prices for this sale and the balance of this season. We have lots of company world wide as the only businesses not seriously negatively hit by Corona are those that supply essential goods and services.

Would be immensely pleasured if above does not happen but difficult to see otherwise. So people should at best have only modest expectations for this sale. And then buyers and brokers not able to travel to the sale has to be tough too - only so much can be expected of on line bidding especially for something like taxidermy goods.

More patience until next season is the short story I am suggesting and even then much of this year's goods still have to be absorbed. It is what it is.

Talk to me about this FHA sale.

So FHA grades your fur places a value on that fur then places It In a lot with other fur with the same grade and value.
Lets say the lot # is 1111111 and that lot has 1000 select rats In It and the value Is $5.00. So any bid under $5.00 Isn't even considered. So we have 5 bidders for that lot and they all have bid $5.00 . The bidding closes at a certain time and we still have 5 bidders with the same price . So how do you pick the winner? Or do we go Into another week of PT?
Are these bids sealed or Is It open bidding where every bidder knows what the other bidder Is bidding?

The bottom line Is this If the trapper Is privileged to the valuation and privileged to the bidding there Is no way the trapper can effect the bidding since he's not bidding and he doesn't know the bidders and the bidders don't know the trapper. And If It's open bidding there Isn't any smoke and mirrors In play.
Come on people everyone In the sale knows what's going on but the poor trapper kind of like a mushroom being kept in the dark.

What auction did you ever see where the auction accepts more than one bid of the same value. I bid the $5.00 minimum then the lot is mine unless you top my bid.

Every buyer sees the bids as they go up but not who is bidding - makes sense. So you bid $5.10 and I can see that (but not who you are) and the lot is yours unless someone else tops your bid.

And yes it would be nice if FHA could post how the process works and stop the speculation.

Well they are telling us this Isn't a auction It's a sale. Like I said If the bidding Is closed and you have 5 bidders at the same price what happens?

other fur auctions and other auctions let every one know what every one is biding and every thing their doing in the auction don't know why its top secret at fha if people see whats going on it will draw people in to sell threw them I was going to consign some furs for the next auction but after seeing how their operating I don't think I want any thing to do with them

Sounds like any online auction, bidders can see what was bid. If a bid on a lot is 5 bucks and someone else wants to bid they would have to bid 5.01. Online auctions are huge, maybe this is the new normal.

NAFA tried this once. Once!

I don't think this would happen. But this sale Is different does the trapper get the hammer price when his fur Is sold or will he get the valuation? With all this smoke and mirrors the trapper has no idea what his fur was valued at from the get go.
I'm not saying that FHA is pulling a fast one but this secrecy crap Is getting a bit old.

Beav- In the ebay world, if you're bdding on something, you typically put in what the max is that you will pay for an item. You then place a bid, either the initial or topping someone else. If you've topped someone else's bid, then their incremental "how much will you bid" kicks in, and thus the computers are bidding against each other until one (or more) top bid is maxed out. Then those bidders will get a note saying, "your top bid has been bested, do you want to revise what your top bid will be?". A bidder can then decided just to quit or revise their top bid. I've seen bids go 5x or more in the last few minutes. I've also seen an initial bid offered early in a week hold for the entire time. Typically, with ebay the next bid forward is a minimum of a quarter so Rat Materson's hypothetical win at $5.01 was probably someone bidding on an item that was $4.75 at the time the winner bid. The winner did the minimum quarter bid but added the penny as "insurance" to beat someone else just bidding the minimum. I've never had a "tie" with an ebay auction. It has either not sold or someone has "won".

So "IF" there Is a tie what happens then? This isn't EBay.

I guess the sellers will have to hope their fur doesn't sell in the lot that got valued too low. I don't know how anyone else feels but I would hate to think that my fur and hard work went to a buyer that got a great deal and sells it at a later sale.

It is impossible for 5 bidders to have the same bid at any point in the FHA auction. The system won’t allow it. End of story.

Bidder A is the first to bid on a certain lot. He bids the valuation, which is $5.00. His bid is accepted and recorded in the on line buyer catalog. His account number (not his name) is displayed by his bid.

Buyer B logs in and wants to bid on that Lot. He sees some one has already bid $5.00. IF he wants to bid on that Lot, his bid is $5.10. He bids $5.10, his bid now replaces Buyer A’s bid and his account number shows by that Lot.

Buyer C logs in and is interested in that Lot but only at $4.50. Since the bid is already over that, he doesn’t bid and moves on to another lot.

Buyer A logs back in, sees that he is no longer the high bidder. He really wants that Lot, so he bids $5.20. His bid is accepted, the Lot is updated and his account number is now showing as the high bidder.

Would you like me to continue? I can keep this scenario going all day if needed.

FHA is running an online auction, very similar to eBay with a few minor differences. Perfectly legit.

well every auction is different. there are no universal rules.



some of them the next bid can be a small advance, some are fixed, some a percentage of the current price.


usually spelled out in the fine print somewhere.

Well That's what I wanted to know. But why doesn't this information come from FHA?

nancy you posted while I was typing.

Two more comments about my above post.

If a buyer logs in, there are no bids on a certain lot and the valuation is listed as $5.00. He only wants to pay $4.00. He attempts to bid $4.00 but the program doesn’t accept his bid. He doesn’t want to pay $5.00, so he moves on to another lot.

FHA (and NAFA when they were in business) has established bid intervals. Those intervals apply in the auction room as well as in the on line auction. The intervals depend on species and value.

For example, on muskrat, squirrel, ermine and a few other species, if the bid is under $10.00, the interval is 10 cents. $5.00, $5.10, $5.20, $5.30, $5.40, etc.

If the bid is over $10.00, the interval is 25 cents. $10.00, $10.25, $10.50, $10.75, $11.00, etc.

It is a bit more complicated with other species - more price breaks and more intervals. Would you like examples??

FHA emailed bidding instructions and rules to all registered buyers. Maybe they didn’t post them for the general public because they didn’t want to be inundated with phone calls and questions from people who weren’t bidding. I’m sure they are getting enough emails and phone calls as it is. They have a limited staff and are trying to sell some fur.

Ok but what happens if its snowing outside when buyer a bids and buyer c has a lemon tree in full bloom than what? Smoke and mirrors I tell ya. Smoke and mirrors. Oh look a squirrel.

there are no words.......

If there wasn't any fur they wouldn't be In business so shouldn't the person producing the fur have some knowledge of what's happing .
Why do we have to get It from a 2nd party? But thanks for your Input.

I think there's some really bored people on this site.

If you want to market your own fur-go ahead and market it.
If you want to use the marketing services of an auction house-let them do their job and market your fur.
Once your fur is fine graded and intersorted at the auction house you have no say in what is done with it beyond that point anyway.
You can use the results to make an informed decision on how you want to market your fur in the future.

I think with everything going on right now we need to joke around otherwise we'll end up like old boco.

Seemed pretty hard grade on size for me on coon. Sent in 84 coon which measured 24-4X, 26-3X, 25-2X, 5-Xl, 3-L, 1-M They graded them 3-4X-3X, 22-3X, 27-2X, 22-Xl, 9-L, 1-M.

Impossible !!

Nobody else could end up being that screwed up like BOCO !!!!

w

Well keep in mind hes French so it's only half his fault.

Coonrich! I am in full agreement! The coon I sent up there were all over the map and I've never seen a fisher grade the the one I got on my batch! Consent anything ip there usually but spring beaver and cant say I'm thrilled about trying them with the rest of my stuff!

As far as the online sale process, let's remember that just a couple of weeks ago they were still planning to have a live auction using NAFA's auction system. For them to pull this off at all was pretty impressive. If they hold the line with reasonable valuations they may not move much product, but I'm ok with that. Just a page or two back everybody was barking about a fire sale.

This keeps up, cheese will outdo the shortage of tp

Irish.

See That,

He's definitely trying to hide something !!!!

Boco's a Closet Frog !!!

w

Always have a couple fisher coon over last 20 years and I know I had a couple this years but none graded fisher this year. Not complaining on color grade just seemed like they downed sized alot of big coon. Scraped and stretched the same as years before plus had nicer coon this year less tick bits.

Obviosly they are motivated.

I would say that if this online auction is something that will be done in the future, trappers will be able to check their lots and see how the bids are going. This was thought up and put in to play so fast that there was no way to get everything connected to trappers accounts. And all of this took place while they were dealing with thousands of new shippers. I’ve never had a complaint since I started sending fur to them. Not saying this sale is the answer but with everything going on I don’t know if there is a good answer this year.
Just my 2 cents

I don't think any place knows how to read a tape measure anymore.

We definitely need an international auction to continue. I see nothing good coming from one major fur buyer dominating the entire fur market.

I agree with you. We also need local buyers. I remember back in the early eighties I could visit 4 different buyers within a 40 minute drive. Not to mention the ones that had routes coming around. They were around pretty frequent too. Not a couple times a season. Then the bottom fell out of the market. Some quit others lost the farm. Some went to work for others. Like NAFA. Working for Groenwold and so on. I sure hope through the present times we don't lose them like that again. I think we need as many options as we can get to market our fur. Remember competition is a good thing.

I disagree with allowing the shippers to follow an online auction, especially the way this one is set up. There is almost nothing to follow. A shipper would log in every day and see no action (or very little) action on their account and it would drive them CRAZY!!

When you listen to a live auction, everything moves right along at a rapid pace. Every minute or so, they are on to a different lot. Plenty of action to follow. The entire sale is wrapped up in say 8 hours.

With this on line auction, the 8 hour live auction is spread over 9 days!! That is like taking one hour of a live auction and dragging it out for 24 hours. One word describes that - S. L. O. W

Fine, let the shippers see their valuations. Let them see the catalog when the sale is over. I can’t think of any good reason to allow them to “watch” the actual auction.

When I value an article,there are 2 things that are used,what they have been selling for on the last 3 sales,could be FHA or NAFA sales.This information is posted after each sale,buyers keep these records and use them for wild and ranch fur,trappers can do this also.
The second is demand verses inventory,this is the most important part of putting any value on an article.This has been a very hard year to read as there has not been a sale this year,the last wild fur sale was at NAFA in August of 2019,with mixed results.
This year we graded all the coon in Cambridge,I graded and adjusted sizes.For the 40 some years at grading coon the one complaint from buyers is that east,west north,south have different widths.Raccoon,regardless of section are sized on the same standard,narrow in the shoulders,7inch boards are all reasons to be down sized.
If you look at other articles,beaver-all sections sized the same,muskrats - 1 size and for all,mink coyotes ect. It all comes down to square inches,and by giving the raccoon sizes a standard will help all sections.Ican still remember when we had different sizing boards for each section,coat,semi ect.
We will post sale results on April 3rd,lets hope for the best.

I understand Industry standards But.


How does a coon lose square Inches from how It's boarded?
If you use a narrow board you might lose width but that turns Into length. When that coon Is hydrated before tanning doesn't It have the same square Inches that It had when It was harvested and boarded?
Your not losing square Inches your just displaying them differently.

Thanks for the update Greg.

Results or Sold Catalog? I need Sold Catalog before April 10.

I sold a lot of stuff on Ebay years ago, when Ebay was still an auction. Wissmiss and others are correct, no sense worrying about an item selling until the auctions over. A lot can happen the last 1 hour of the sale. Even though this auction lasts over a week, the auction probably won't heat up until the last day if there is interest in items. Is there a 5 or 10 minute extension for bidding if someone bids the last second, this allows bidders a chance to bid after the end time? Maybe Wissmiss knows.

Greg, thanks for coming on with some clarification. Not sure if you read all the posts on here but I have been somewhat vocal on the issue of valuations for the sellers to see. Is there anyway or could there be possible negotiations on this subject in the future? Thanks

A narrow 7 inch board stretch Coon will stretch longer then a standard 8 in regular width. Gives it an unfair advantage an inaccurate reading to The Standard.

So I guess there is an auction I thought it was cancelled if there is an auction when will it happen and when will prices be known. I have seen so much stuff on FHA Im not sure what is going on. Also see that a fella in Montana is picking up fur for the next auction which I would like to ship to.

Anyone wanting seller valuation at fha should speak up now on this thread, this may be our best chance at it. Dosen't have to be a speech, a simple statement would be fine. Not sure how many on here know who Greg is. He runs the cambridge wi fha headquarters. It may not do any good but it can't hurt.

There has to be some middle ground and a way to figure this out so fha does not get inundated with a ton of calls. If you have good idea this would be the time to bring it up. Thanks

So what are the sq inches (or sq cm, I really don't care what unit you use) of a 4x, 3x, 2x, and 1xl coon??

I can see for hides that are close, a inch or less between sizes when measuring from the nose to base of tail when the skin is on the board, I get that. When I sold through NAFA, I'd have a small percentage (I'd have to look at my r ecords from 2018/19 season) where I would be long and NAFA brought it back to the next lower size but that was maybe 10% of the coon. Doing the math on coonrich's skins, there's a 59.5% disagreement between what he thought he sent and what FHA gave him for sizes. That is a MAJOR disagreement. If that holds true, somewhere between a 40-60% disagreement between what trappers are sending in for coon sizes and what they're going to be graded, all to the smaller size to the advantage of the buyer, that is a problem.

The narrowest board I have on coon is 7 3/4 at base. Xl coon at biggest go on it. I like 8 to 8 3/4 inch wide base. U can take a 2 xl coon an make it 4 xl , on narrow board. Get downgraded in size

FHA has a remote on line auction going on right now. Works sort of like eBay. The auction ends at 5 PM eastern time on April 2. Within a day or two shipper accounts will be updated with goods that sold.

Just like an auction room auction but a whole lot slower. Same results - goods sell, shippers get paid for what sold.

Some trappers stretch to the line on their board or just a little past it and think that is the size they will get.After removing those pelts from the board they shrink an inch or better after a week or two.If you want your pelts to remain in the size tarriff you have to pin your pelts between the size lines by an inch or more for it to remain in that size.
Otter shrink a lot after removal from the board.Just like castors,pelts continue to shrink as they continue to dry.
The only pelts you stretch to the line are beaver.That is because the template takes into account the 2 inch shrinkage in beaver.No advantage at all boarding beaver between the size lines-unlike the cased pelts.

[quote]Some trappers stretch to the line on their board or just a little past it and think that is the size they will get.After removing those pelts from the board they shrink an inch or better after a week or two.If you want your pelts to remain in the size tarriff you have to pin your pelts between the size lines by an inch or more for it to remain in that size.[/quote

Boco- My coon hides don't shrink an inch or so coming off of my boards. They are dry. If I measure a solid 33 inch skin when I board it, Its a 33 inches a month later. Maybe that's true with your length x width beav skins, not with a properly handled coon hide. At least not my experience.

All skins do-otter shrink a lot over a month or so after coming off the board.

I have been shipping to FHA since 2009. I grade my coons, rats and otters for size every year. With the exception of one, two, or maybe three pelts FHA sizes my pelts the same as I do. I grade for size right after I get the pelt on the stretcher and usually only stretch the pelt about 1/4" past the grade size.

I’ve got a FHA poster in my fur shed that has pictures and widths and lengths of skin side out critters. It shows 7” width on coon. I’ll take a picture of it tomorrow and put it on here.

A big Coon stretch on a 7-inch board just looks plain ridiculous. Coon just aren't naturally shaped that way. and you got to have all of the Coon Hide stretch Beyond the measurement. You can't have most of the skirt of the Coon down below the line and part of it above it and expect It to get graded for that measurement. I never had any problems with my raccoon sizes an FHA or NAFA.

Thank you Greg and Wissmiss.

Don't know squat about coon but seems to me this is where standard board sizing and usage comes in.

Like Mike said, other than a couple skins, my coon were sized to what I had expected.

As far as valuations go. Anyone can look back at the last 5 years of sales and see what every single lot sold for. I understand this year is different but grade is the thing I am most interested in.

thank you very much greg for the input how the auction works wish fha would have explained it on their site like you did this thread would be a lot shorter and a lot less bs

I come here to bs.

FHA is going to hold the line. They are not going to tell us the line.

NAFA was providing valuation to the shippers for some time and I don't see how it helped much. I've seen skins sell well over and well under valuation. For kicks I looked back at the August NAFA sale and less than half of my goods sold for 32% less than valuation.

If I had my preference, bidders would not be able to see valuations for live auctions. I don't see how that benefits the shipper or auction house, but they are used to seeing it now and would complain if not available.

Well If a coon shrunk 1" or more while drying It would either tear out your pins or staples. I've put up 1000s of coon and NEVER witnessed that.

I draw the lines on my coon boards 3/8 of an inch longer than the size lines. I know they shrink back but an inch sounds like a lot. I know I have boarded them, dried them and measured again before selling or shipping sometimes 2-3 months after being off the boards and I did not see that much shrink. I really watch the corners or the shortest distances so they stay in the larger size.

Bryce

Well beav you don't see them 6 month later, so you don't see the shrink.age

Some of the old Racoon sizing boards were X inches wide and the length were marked on them. If the hide did not go across the board for width....it did not get into the FORMED length, notice that I did not say stretched size, it was up to the grader to bump it up when it go to them.

I am not familiar with coon-what are the size increments?I know on marten 1/2 inch over the line will not guarantee you that size after sitting in the auction warehouse for weeks not to mention packing,handling,thru changing humidity levels til they arrive at the auction,drumming etc.The increments on marten are 2 inch and I want them an inch over or directly between the lines.On otter it is 4 inch increments and I want those 2 inches over the line-an otter will shrink as much as beaver.
And dont forget if the noses are pointy and not rounded they measure from just above the eyes.That has been published for decades.

Relatively speaking, the size of the Coon to me is a little concern compared to the quality of the Coon anyways. A select 3x Coon will be worth $10 or more then a 1 to II grade 4X. generally

Not sure what kind of fur you had that sold for 32% under valuation but I bet fha would love you as a seller that has no problem bending over and grabbing your ankles. Lol

Unless that fur was junk to start with I would want an auction house to answer a few of my questions as to why they decided to sell it that far under valuation instead of buying it back when they are making 11% on my hard work.

Where is the line on how far below valuation when the auction house decides to buy the fur back?? Where is the line and how often is the line a moving target??

I agree with you on the bidders not seeing the valuation if the sellers can't. If I go to a farm auction i don't know what the valuation of the equipment I'm looking at bidding on but i do know what i need and how much i can spend on it. The same as bidders on fur.

Usually depends on the fur.In a down market the junk will be sold freely into the market for whatever is offered.There is no benefit to anyone inventorying that fur.

Boco- you're always talking about "junk", especially in fur that is more commonly found in the lower 48 than around your pad. A guy can have fur that has been graded high but its "region" is not that desired. At NAFA, I think there was 7 coon regions. So a guy can have "select" larger skins say from Western Semi Heavy but because its the 3rd or 4th region down the list, it doesn't get bought until the better deals for the buyer open up--happened to me last year. I suppose you can classify whole regions as "junk" but that doesn't mean the fur was badly handled or in poor shape. Of course, not all of us live in the land of primo fur in all directions...

P.S. If grinners ever make to Boco land, they will become the best possums in North America

I never said any of that crap.Stop the bullcrap trying to put words in my mouth.
I am informing of the auction house protocols for selling fur,you moron.

That fur that sold under valuation in August had been bought back at previous March and June auctions, and it was NAFA's last gasp at a live auction, so that might explain it for you. And if the fur had been junk to start with it would not have had that high of valuation.

I agree boco but the auction house should have enough time to take your call and explain the situation.
Basically it comes down to if they will or will not be held accountable for their actions.

NAFA wasn't really in any position to be taking phone calls and explaining selling under valuation in August of 2019.

That's exactly what happened. By August, I wasn't expecting to make the initial valuation amount so was not surprised it sold for an average of about 60% under the first valuation. But those last coon skins weren't section III, some were select but from a down list region.

Boco- you make me laugh!! You've called about a third of tman members "moron" or whatever common "nasty" terms you use when you're o the defensive so we're generally inoculated (no pun intended in the era of the virus!) from your insults. Sort of look forward to them because you mostly don't have many arrows in that particular quiver...

Hey-I call em as I see em.
And if your shoe fits you wear it.
And of course I will defend myself.
And one mans junk is another mans treasure.-In other words in a falling market what was previously of value can now be junk and not worth storing.The buyers preferences or lack there of will determine what is junk and what has value.The auction house doesnt decide that.
And junk fur comes from all sections.

Well, if trappers are going to argue over what the valuation is and why they can't see it. Maybe just do away with the valuation all together. It sounds like that's what some of you would prefer. Its an auction right? If two people want the item then great, if not, well it will be sold at whatever pennies someone is willing to pay. Done deal, no arguments over what the auction house values the fur at and no arguing over who can and can not see it? Lots of auctions are ran that way. Watch the crying start then... I guess everyone could beg groeny to take their fur or tan it all and line their living rooms with it?

Bottom line, we have one major auction house now. Its in their best interest to get as much $$ as they can for the goods that are shipped to them. Doesn't matter what they do, some people will never be happy.

Mike

Of course the auction house needs to set valuations. The discussion is who needs to see them, shippers, buyers, or just the auction house.

My point with NAFA was that nothing was gained by shippers knowing the valuation of the fur going into the August auction.

walleye101's Example of a sinking ship is pretty poor to use. I feel there is one thing that can be gained, by seeing what value the auction house puts on your fur. It can help you make better decision on if you should ship them more fur for the next auction. Lets say if coyotes are selling in the country for $100 and have been all along, and you see they are valued at the auction at $70, you may not want to rush to get them on the truck. If it is the other way around it would encourage you to make the cut off date for the next auction. Even though your fur may bring more or less in the actual auction they should have a good idea of what it should bring.

But, remember the NAFA example started in March before anyone knew the ship was in trouble. If the valuations set for the March sale were not overpriced for the existing market those skins would not have been available for the June or August sales.

Bingo! I'm not a ship and hope trapper. I'm not married to FHA. I sleep around. They are just one option. Prices good, ship. Prices bad, other options.

Good; defined as profitable.

Just because the auction house puts a value on your fur doesn't mean It's going to sell at that value. The only way you can make a judgment as to what the markets doing Is after the sale. But then of coarse It's to late.

In the last couple of years, if its not coyotes or cats, the Auctions have been moving most pelts at valuation or less. When there is bidding, you are correct.

P.S. This year, gonna be hard to get FHA any fur after April 2 when most of us are gonna be on lockdown. Oops!

I like it when all the cards are on the table and I know the one talking is giving first hand information a lot gets skipped over on here by me

Yep, my 2Xs usually bring the best money as they have a lot less flaws in them than those big whoppers.

FHA just updated their website - it essentially says patience please given the extenuating circumstances they are operating under.

I don't think any of you that have been griping about valuations have any reading comprehension skills. Now your all repeating verbatim what I posted way back when I quit this stupid thread! There are like five of you that think trappers gotta know, and while I haven't posted, none have given one good reason WHY you need to know. The only aurgument is so you can tell before you ship for the next sale. I pointed out then, that you can see how your fur did before you ship, this year especially, which is the only thing it applies to because all of the whiners are old nafa shippers, other than dirt! Give me a break!

So we will NEVER know what the valuation was. Only what the fur sold for. FHA is saying they won't sell under the set valuation.
So why not reveal the valuation If you have nothing to hide.
It's like having your roof replaced. The first roofer tells me I don't know what It's going to cost before I'm done then I'll let you know. The other one gives me a bid he tells me cost of the tear off and the price of the material and the cost of labor to replace the shingles. Who do you think I'm going to pick to do the job.
I know the auction of fur Is a bit different but If I know the valuation It might just make me feel that I'm not being kept In the dark. And That might just keep me on board to ship again. If the buyer knows the valuation why shouldn't the producer. Being kept In the dark just makes one suspicious and I don't think that's a good business practice.

I THINK TRUST IS A VERY IMPORTANT THING.

In my opinion, FHA isn’t posting valuations for shippers to see is because they are already swamped with phone calls and emails from shippers about other things - account numbers, missing pelts, questions about castor, questions about grading, questions about sizing, the list goes on and on and on. The last thing they need is questions about valuations - why is it so low, why is this lot valued at more than that Lot, etc.

Just leave them alone and let them get this auction wrapped up.

Ok Beav - go ahead and blast away at what I’m posting........

If your in business that's the thing you have to deal with. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.
Like I said before trust Is in my opinion is a huge priority . In most cases It's going to make you or break you.
Myself and others use to trust NAFA now that trust Is gone with them. And know we are dealing with another auction house. So I think that most FHA shippers are a bit paranoid about this sale. Why not ease some of that paranoia?

I have never called FHA or NAFA (except when my fellow trappers requested I call about the Eagle River agent dingbat). If I want to talk to a wall, I got four on each side of me most days.

For all my comments I'm going to blame the whiskey. I'm out

I started shipping to NAFA in 1993, never been paranoid, send fur to FHA still not paranoid. Guys I know have fur up there are not paranoid, and just ask " how much they selling for?"

At this point,,,, IF would be the bigger question ,,,,, ? not how much.

You could have sold to Groenwold had your valuation right then

I gave several good reasons about 10 pages ago you just don’t want to hear them

If you want to drag him into this, why does he not put prices on his website?

One guy on the wilderness forum sold to Groeny's new Agent(NAFA's former) (former furbuyer) and Groeny's not even close to an option.

Yep, there are other options if you don't like the auction process. With Groenwold you get to set your own valuation. Then if the offer doesn't exceed it you get to choose........, "buy back" or "fire sale"!

I would roll the dice before selling in the country. In fact by the time I was done with my coon Wiebke wouldn't look at them and Groney was at a 5 dollar average.

Rather than get an ulcer over not knowing the valuation of your fur, or worrying about being cheated by FHA ,why not just sell it to another buyer for cash?

[quote With Groenwold you get to set your own valuation. Then if the offer doesn't exceed it you get to choose........, "buy back" or "fire sale"!][/quote]

Yeah, how often does that happen...? How many guys walk up to the truck and say, " I want this for that, etc. etc. etc." Or after they're done sorting and ready to write up the ticket, a trapper says, 'wait, I'm not taking that for this"? I'll lay money its probably 80% or more that lay down their fur, get their check, and then go down the list to see how well they did. Ok, back up a step, the GFW guy will say out the tally but it takes pretty fast figuring to determine an average for say a particular species, that's why they do the pile method in the first place. Only after looking at the slip on the way back to the truck, do most guys say, "oh, that middle pile of coon is pretty close what the average was for those critters."

At least with NAFA, you could maybe hear some real bidding on your item or crickets while it was up and went back on to private treaty sale.This year, the GFW sellers who went early probably did alright given the craziness the world has descended to in the last 2-3 months. And I hope this auction works for FHA and guys are generally ok with it. Things are pretty ugly out there and probably won't be much better (with lots of surpluses to move through the pipeline) next fall...

Well thats my point. How often have you heard "if you don't like his offer you can take your fur back"? Then what?

I'm not here to teach, I'm here to BS.

P.S. Boco can explain options, if he wants.

I gotta say groeny was a new option for us up here this year and ALOT of guys ended up selling there fur especially coyotes to them for serious dollar. I'm thinking in 2 days I might be swearing. I hope the auction is better but I now have my doubts.

That was a rhetorical question, not really looking for an answer. I'm here to BS as well. I find the fur market thread more entertaining than the apocalypse threads!

Let's hope the coyote market does not go the way of the coon market once groeny is able to dominate that market as well.

I have about 200 coyotes to get on the 2nd sale if possible with all the virus craziness. Imo the auction is the best option of making the most money for my hard work. I have no problem with fha , I know they are all working very hard at making this sale and future sales as successful for both sellers and buyers as possible.

In one of my earlier post I said I hope they have a fantastic sale and the 2nd is even better and still stand by that 100%. Only thing I was asking was a little more transparency, but after more consideration I feel this is not the time for that discussion. I don't want to be banned from fha cambridge because I have too much at stake. This valuation thing seems to be a very serious subject for fha especially right now.

Just because I dropped out of this discussion doesn't mean you all can't discuss things and keep this thread running. It is an interesting exchange of opinions imo.

rpmartin- If you have 200 yotes to sell at FHA, I would think they would want to keep you around for the commission and pull up their big boy pants of being able to take some criticism about they're running this auction. Your yotes may not be Montana Hi-Line pale heavies but I wouldn't want your commission money to walk out the door by banning you for saying something I may dislike on a trapping forum. But maybe that's just me...

I'd be more interested in the valuations before I even sent them in and beyond that what things actually sell for at this sale so I can decide whether to empty the freezer or get creative.

You can download the saga app. get a feel on the current state of the international fur market.

Saga cancelled their sale didn[t they?

No

"As a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, the live auctions to be conducted by FHA
has been cancelled and is tentatively rescheduled for May, the auction conducted
by KF in February has been postponed to April and the auction to be conducted by
Saga in early March was postponed to this week and is now taking place in an
unprecedented manner online to allow for some furs to be sold; "

Source: NAFA's latest motion to extend stay until May 4.

What?

Translate for you Poorcoon: FHA live auction for March was cancelled and replaced with an online auction that gets over this evening. Next live auction FHA tentative set for May.

Kopenhagen Furs in Denmark has postponed Feb. sale to April. Saga in Finland postponed early March auction and is going ahead now online. KF and Saga are of course the big players in the ranch business now.

With the app. The bidding can be viewed.

The saga sale started March 23 goes till April 9.

Well just about over, been long 9 days

We can only hope for the best , times like these

The Journey From Trap to Market

Above ^^^^^^^^ is a link to an informative article about how things work.

Any results knowen yet ?

Wissmiss are they offering the higher end coyotes and all fur I guess as private treaty now like most sales

What?

Can you post a link to this app? Thanks

What do you mean what? Are they offering all the fur that never sold as private treaty now like they do after every sale

First of all we don't even know If any fur sold to begin with.

yep

Somebody may be able to post a link to an “app”. But I can’t.

Just go to the App Store, search “saga furs”.

Download the app. Super easy!

It’s very well done, and very informative.

So Is It about selling ranch fur? I didn't think Saga fur had anything to do with wild fur.

It's all who ya know beav

Yes only ranch fur.

Wild fur follows trends in ranch fur as everyone knows.

Certain species more than others.

Finncoon/coyote correlation.

So your privy to that information?

Just bits and pieces, hence why I'm asking someone who knows. Understand?

Got ya.

I wasnt trying to sound like an (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) but it's tough when writing on here.

None of my 10 mink sold. And a friend had 2 rats and beaver on this sale but only the rats sold.

I couldn't tell if this was a question or a statement full of typos

Oh me bad ?

Ranch mink sold not so well at steady prices to last year. Ranch fox had a terrible sale all at the saga sale.

GUYS! As of noon today, the only furs that are showing up on your accounts as sold are rats that were sold private treaty since the last auction (May 2019) That is why your rats are showing as sold and nothing else.

FHA did sell some fur. I know that for 100% for sure. I got an invoice via email this morning. I know of several other people that should be getting invoices as well.

Without disclosing what I bought, I can tell you that shippers that had fur in the lots I bought are NOT going to get rich!! After they pat seller commissions, it might not even be worth issuing a check.

As far as PT sales after the online auction - I have no idea. Canada is on lock down like a lot of the US. I think some of the FHA are working from home, answering emails and phone calls. I would say, let the dust from the online auction settle a bit and then we can think about going forward.

Without disclosing what I bought, I can tell you that shippers that had fur in the lots I bought are NOT going to get rich!! After they pat seller commissions, it might not even be worth issuing a check.


So you're saying you didn't purchase the top lot super select bobcat. Hmmm...

I’m saying I didn’t buy the top lot of super select anything. My needs run more in line with the bargain basement. I like shopping in the clearance department.

I do have friends with better taste and bigger checkbooks,

You dont find the cost of dressing those goods is prohibitive to profit Wissmiss?

I didn’t say I was going to dress them, did I??

no you didn't. but I wonder if my fur up at FHA ever thinks about me???

OK,gotcha.

we will all find out Monday if were rich ? lol