The human evolutionary tree

A thread for those of us that are interested in this kind of thing.

Over my lifetime the age of human ancestors has been getting pushed further and further back. I have read with fascination the discoveries made over the years. Advances in science in the past 20-30 years have shed so much new light. When I had an anthropology class in the mid-70's the discussion was what had happened to the Neanderthals? Since there was an overlap of our direct ancestors with them had we killed them off? Was it possible that we had interbred? And of course now we know the truth. We just absorbed their smaller numbers into one mongrel race that includes about 2% Neanderthal DNA in all but people of african ancestry. That 2% is really a huge number when you think about it. I have read that we share 99% of our DNA with our closest primate relative the chimpanzee!

We also share 97.5 percent of DNA with a mouse. Personally I would like to see how much we share with a rock.

I know a few folks that most likely have more than one would think.

Dumber than a box of rocks.

Charlie

Our direction we refer to them by their proper name -- politicians, or lawyers.

DNA are God's building blocks, kinda like legos, the same pieces can build many different things and adding a few totally different pieces really makes for big differences. The sequence of evolution is laid out chronologically in Genesis, rather before science was even a word.

We are 2% caveman and 99% monkey and some how I can figure out how to work a smartphone. Yet if you took the caveman out of us would I then be a mouse at 97.5%.... now im starting to get confused about who or what I am.....do I swing from a tree or crawl in a hole, before long we wont even know which bathrooms to go in...

Don't you guys have that other thread as your playground?

Squat behind a tree......

I'm liking this math, gives us 198.5% to work with instead of a paltry 100. Probably why the human race is the dominant species on the planet.

I know when I was trapping one year in a pasture I was glad I had some chimp and greyhound DNA that sure came in handy when that bull decided he didn't like me too much in his pasture.

This mixed race mongrel ran like a dog and up that lone tree like the Neanderthal I am.

Beaverpeeler. You picked a heck of a time to put up a good post. I think we should wait a few days. Right now some are celebrating this Jew on a stick thing, are giddy with excitement and will stomp all over science because.

Thought about that before I posted but then realized you had posted on that one too, but I'll stop posting on this thread for you friend.

Scuba,

Your Nazi Lineage is starting to show thru a bit, there Komrade.

Sieg Heil !!

Disgusting.

w

The mockery thing works both ways buddy. You obviously know jack about my lineage

OK when you quote scuba I have to remember why I blocked him long ago. It defeats the block and shows his lack of brain cells every time. LLL

Scuba is a good ole boy imo. He is intelligent, witty and shares his knowledge all the time. People can agree to disagree and still get along. Happy Easter, weirdest one yet.

They're Blinded by "science " though

Heinrich Himmler's great, great grand-son, right ?

You've got good potential as a chicken farmer.

w

The problem with science is to much theory. Which is a educated guess.

That's also the good thing about science. Everything that comes out of our head is a theory. And everything comes out of our heads. Science is the practice of doing research to support or discredit those theories.

Plenty wrong with our practice of science, but not anymore than anything else we get up to.

Careful their beaverpeeler one of the most dangerous things in the universe is a cornered religious fanatics.

The problem with scientific theory is that for the ignorant they think it is a guess.

It's actually this.

Walleyed. You may as well stop trying to offend me. Ya see in order for that to work I would first have to value your opinion. On this subject thats not going to happen brother.
If we ever met, I would still buy you a beer.

I think it is fascinating stuff. It is equally as fascinating to me how indoctrination has and continues to be so successful at controlling the masses, and taking their money I might add.

A real good link for anyone else who finds this story of humankind most interesting.
where did we come from

I didn't mean to imply science is wrong, or bad, just a lot in science is theory. You are right about everything that comes out of our head is theory, until it becomes proven fact. My theory is: There are things we will never know. but in turn that doesn't mean we should not try to figure them out. At the moment shared DNA is fact, but human evolution remains theory.

For anyone to draw a correlation between Germany and Great Britain is just plain stupid or any other part of Europe for that matter. To infer anyone has anything to do with the final solution that wasn’t there is speaking out of the wrong end of their gut.

The fascinating thing about most if not all the science disciplines is that the more you dig, the more you see that there is more to learn. The picture just keeps getting more and more complex. Like beaver peeler mentioned scientific things we learned in the 70's need to be either relearned or modified on a regular basis.

There are people on both ends of the spectrum who want to use science to either support an agenda -climate change for example-, or to bash science -young earthers for example. Both of them willfully blind to science.

I read an interesting book a few years ago that described the dispersal of mankind across the globe, I can't remember the name, sorry. However, even that book may be supplanted by new discoveries by now.

That link is an article that is a collective bunch of giant poor hypothesis', imo.

Genesis 1:28 - And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

In science, theory explains the fact. Take whitetails for example, there are 30 subspecies in N.A alone and the reason for this fact is found in the Theory of Adaptation.

You have a good point there Waggler. Science has been watered down with politics these days because of different agendas. That though as you said is not true science. The principle thing is missing on that route and that is an open mind.
I still think that we should come back to the original theme on another day once the easter thing has passed. Not that I am known for being overly PC but ....... well ya know

Of course it is in "your opinion". But truthfully how much of a chance have you ever given that argument in your entire life? Has just accepting your opinion (possibly an opinion indoctrinated into you as a youth) without question, how it has always been?

Definitely not trying to offend you, but that anti-semitic/
anti-religious comment on Easter Sunday was a bit over the top,
even for you.

If we ever meet, I'll drink your beer.

wash your hands.

w

Scuba,
I plan to go to church (virtually of course) later today to celebrate the Resurrection, however, I am not at all conflicted talking science. Can I explain the Resurrection scientifically? No, it is not a subject of science.
Just the idea that mankind has an inquiring mind is an interesting subject in itself. I doubt any other species in the animal kingdom sit around and speculate on these things.

we need to change it from"Trap Talk" to "Trap Bicker".

Is it heresy to believe in CHRIST and science? I think not. Many of you will disparage my faith because of my last question. Then go off and thump your chest with pride. For none are so blind as those who would not see and brothers and sisters there is a mountain of evidence and it is growing faster than ever. You can make a diamond in a lab so easily the world uses them as abrasives. But no one and I mean not one fossil has ever been made in a lab, because it takes TIME. And before any of you crackerjacks start holleren what about the FAKES? Everyone was found out and it was science that exposed them.

If not for science we would still be stareing at the southern end of a north bound goat and wondering what that comet “portends “ and why the crops are failing and maybe that voice in our head telling us to kill our son may be on to something. WHHHAAATTTT?

I must be missing something; I don't see any bickering.

Anyway, here's an interesting article that appeared in yesterdays Anchorage paper.
The dispersal of humans from the eastern hemisphere to north and south America is really fascinating. The area described in the article was actually a grassland at that time (late Pleistocene). I think it's a little curious that the writer didn't point out that fact.
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/sci...-brooks-range-known-for-extreme-weather/

To the contrary facts are used to validate theory.

RV, I don't think I ever come to a conclusion or belief without doing my own research. I'm my own man so to speak and come to my own beliefs when I have satisfied my quest. That article, written by a scientific journalist, and a bunch like it use, we don't knows and probably's. I respect others opinions, as for mine I believe that all things including us are here because of the Creator.

There actually was an infamous hoax that set back the scientific field of paleoanthropology for years. Skeptics had been clamoring for the "missing link" that would prove that humans, like all other living beings, had evolved. It was theorized that man evolved when his brain became larger than other primates'. Then suddenly in 1912 an ancient skull was found in a gravel pit in England. It had a large brain case but a primitive ape like jaw. He became known as "Piltdown Man". For the next four decades everything that was being found somehow had to fit into the Piltdown model. Of course eventually it was discovered that it was an elaborate hoax. An older human skull had been expertly joined with an artificially aged ape jaw.

It is now thought that perhaps bipedal locomotion (walking upright) was one of the first transitions taken by our direct ancestors. This change goes back 3 million years by Australopithecus, among the earliest of the hominid line.

You got me there. LOL Good point.

A question for those who believe we came from monkeys

When did monkeys stop becoming humans ?

Why did monkeys stop becoming humans ?

Why is it when we go to the zoo the monkeys are still monkeys and not a cage full of ugly people years later ?

I certainly don't believe we came from monkeys so I'm of no use here.

Antigov, who is claiming humans evolved from monkeys? That is a theory I am unfamiliar with and I cant find any reference to.

I don't think anyone ever said humans came from monkeys.DNA has shown what was already indicated that monkeys and humans evolved along separate lineages from an archaic common ancestor.

If the tree is very large and with many branches and offshoots then a species does not have to descend from another, it can be very, very similar but of it's own place on the tree.

Bryce

Danny , i didnt read all of this thread so maybe no one here ?


Its still a valid question as billions who dont belive in the creator do believe in this

thats me--second from the left.

Ha .... you aint that short are you ?

Bigfoot ?

till ya straighten me up.

Science has never said people cam from apes, or monkeys, or chimps. A computer generated image in the 21st century is not a quality reference.

Is it not possible to believe that your creator has and continues to use evolutionary forces to make his/her masterpieces?

I find that more appealing then thinking of our coming about as like some cheap David Copperfield trick.

When I was a kid the old women busy bodies that taught sunday school, would circle the wagons if you said men and women have the same number of ribs.

Church leaders were prone to apocalyptic fits when first told that the earth circled the sun.

It was common at one time to burn alive any Dr that wanted to dissect a dead human.

So for church leaders to claim that evolutionists teach humans are evolved from monkeys, is not surprising.

If you really really want to see the wagons circle, talk about how almost every judeo/christian story can be found in other older tales.

You have to carefully choose the time and place as religious fanatics get angry and are often dangerous when angered.

It is possible to hold to that idea and still be a believer in Divine creation, however, any believer who wants to put some work and thought into the subject doesn't have to go for that easy-fix to the question. There are other explanations that don't involve any conflict between science and faith.

The real question is not where did we come from, but, where are we going?

It is possible to hold to that idea and still be a believer in Divine creation, however, any believer who wants to put some work and thought into the subject doesn't have to go for that easy-fix to the question. There are other explanations that don't involve any conflict between science and faith.

The real question is not where did we come from, but, where are we going? It's too bad that so many believers get all hung up on the first question.

I still wanna know when the monkeys got together and said " screw those humans we gonna stay monkeys and make them feed us bananas "

They never figured out how to harness fire, that was the big turning point in Human history and evolution.

anyone who doesn't believe in evolution just mention to the Herd there's no more toilet paper OR read some of the comments on here

Scuba
When when you meet that jew on a stick as you call him (Jesus) you will be trembling , crying and pleading for mercy for which there will be none..
Jesus says there will always be mockers, He is always right..

grisseldog,
as long as there is breath there is always hope.
When Jesus came the first time he came as a Lamb, and that is how many people still imagine Him. When you experience Him in the future He will be as a Lion; it will be terrifying if you aren't known by Him.

And there you have it. The definition of perfect love.

Guns , Germs, and Steel, by Jarod Diamond, and he tracked mans progress across the globe by several methods, linguistically being one of them.

I think that premise of fear (eternal (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) etc) was the first reason I began to reject the idea way back in elementary school.

How about let's debate the universe?

It would be good to point out that not all apes are monkeys.

That's the book! thanks

Sure grissledog and your god is the one and only right one and your way to believe in him is the only correct way. All the others are just phony cultists.

Because this is a predominantly Christian country, most religious opinions and observations are bible based.

If this had been a Buddhist based country, then most of these arguments would be based around that religion.

That's the long and short of it, opinions based and quantified by the culture they were developed amongst.

One guy reads one book written by a man and believes that story, another reads a book by a different man and believes a different story. But both accounts/story's were written by man.

The rejection of God is because of pride .

Logic not pride.

pride not logic .

you got your chocolate in my peanut butter.

Now aint that something . Now I am being told by someone who does not know me why I don't believe in the right god .......

LOL, I forgot all about that old commercial.

Have you seen my sister in law? I swear she broke out of the quarantine section of the ape house. The missing link....

never went to bed with one but have woke up with a few.

Me too. Jesus in the bible is nothing like the scary Jesus that pastors use to make people do as they want and take their wealth.

Keith

According to my wife that's me just ahead of you. She's always telling me to straighten up.

Jarhead

.X3 That Fire and Brimstone nonsense is just one of the reasons why I have rejected religion.

Jarhead

Danny , i didnt read all of this thread so maybe no one here ?


Its still a valid question as billions who dont belive in the creator do believe in this





[/quote]
It would be good to point out that not all apes are monkeys.
[/quote]

Actually better yet would be to point out that not any apes are monkeys. Monkeys have tails. Apes do not.

[/quote] Have you seen my sister in law? I swear she broke out of the quarantine section of the ape house. The missing link....[/quote]

I hope she doesn’t read this forum!

This thread reminds me of the song Apeman-by the Kinks.

Here’s the tree your looking for.

Here you go Boco.

One would think that there are a multitude of parallel " branches " on the evolutionary tree. Most all mammals have very similar attributes. Looking at the bone structure even whales have 5 fingers and so do bats for example. Humans still have remnants of a tail. If you ever slipped and fell on it, you know where the things located for sure. So the " missing link " is not necessarily missing but more that likely never was there in the first place.

We evolved from fish. remember that their were no land dwellers. The fish must have stuck their head above water and thought...I think I can. Where did the fish evolve from? Well obviously the premordial ooze. A one celled organism must have thought...I think I can. Of course this is the most logical explanation for our existence. LOL. We all are endowed with a worldview. Darwin had his. His was to prove the superiority of the white race. Hence the title of his book. We all have the same evidence, it is all in the interpretation of it.

Bible says
The fool in his heart says there is no God...
Scuba I hope you make it in, I really do..

As I thought from the get go, it is the wrong time to have a meaningful discussion about the subject of evolution. Having said that, on this forum there will probably never be a right time. Sad

Yeah the jew on a stick comment pretty much threw a meaningful discussion out the window .

Says the man who posts a disparaging remark about one who hung on a tree. If you cannot reasonably discuss something you dont agree with, why should you expect it from someone else?

Well Rick it was supposed to be about evolution not a bible study thread like the others on here at the moment. You will have noticed that I kept my oar out of those. I just wish that some of the hobby preachers on here would give us the same curtesy.

I also think the evolutionary story is a heck of a lot more interesting. I believe it makes me appreciate my time here more than worrying about what happens when I die and I find everything else that surrounds me in nature to be way more fascinating that they are in a biblical sense. It’s really not worth worrying about what others think, unless of course your purpose in life is to save someone from thinking something other than what you do.

I am not one to push what I believe on anyone. But then again I don't want anyone to push evolutionary theories on me. And then call it logical. There is nothing logical about life evolving from nothing. It is not observational science. It is interpretation of the evidence, I interpret the evidence the way it makes most sense to me.

Thanks for the correction Peeler,

I do not think this thread is pushing anything on anyone. It’s free will to open it or not. I live in a pretty non religious part of the planet, but I don’t think anyone “pushes” evolution on anybody. The same cannot be said for the youth groups and bible camps etc that are always pushing for recruits. My wife tells a funny story of going to bible camp as a kid and coming home horrified her parents were going to burn in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) and she was convinced she and everyone were “bad”. There’s obviously a lot more to the story but it’s definitely a common theme with the few people I know that ever attended such a thing.

Some of you should go back and read Peeler's first post, attempt to understand it, and then just politely bow out, and wander off. This thread was intended for more cerebral types, and should be met with an open mind towards the original post.

Yep...I was told we are all born as sinners just because we live in the flesh. I didn't even try to comprehend that one.

As fun as it is to look back into the past and see how homo sapiens have evolved it is also a fun mental exercise to think about where they are going. Surely if we go 100,000 years into the future homo sapiens will have changed again.

That one in the middle is smoking hot. You ever run into her back in the day?

Ya see my PC gland is not as well developed as yours

Belief.
That is a huge word.
Faith is another one.
What I 'believe' pales in comparison to what I wish to discover.
I find that blind faith attributed to any topic is counter-intuitive to discovering truth.
Given that we reside in a universe which defies any kind of boundaries, I find it impossible to rule out any possibilities, regardless of the topic of discussion.
When we discontinue the pursuit of truth and fact, we will be stuck with things like "the world is flat," and "every celestial body revolves around the Earth."

Your tailbone is not a part of a missing tail. It's there for a purpose. Think about what would happen if you didn't have a tailbone. You could not poop, for one thing.

I was just pointing out similarities between species. A whale has little use for a thumb but still has the remnants of one ... the bone is still there ... just general pointing out of examples in nature that could point to parallel evolution of species and thus makes the theory of not having the so-called missing link plausible

I wish I still had thumbs on my feet.

Back to original post, many many things are possible and even highly likely, when you consider the length of time involved. Modern humans have been in north america at least 15,000 years, and in all likelyhood a good deal longer than that. It's maybe hard for us to comprehend that length of time, so to really understand what has been possible over the existence of humans on this planet is exponentially more difficult. If humans survive another 100,000 years no doubt we will be different than what we are now.

Australian aborigines have been there 40,000 plus years.

How did they manage to transplant themselves during that time period, that part in itself is amazing.

I think there is potentially just as much we don't yet understand, as what we think we know now.

Up next

Very few things, very few, have not evolved over time especially long periods of time.

Sturgeons and sharks (cartilaginous fish) havent changed in 350 million years.
Perfection achieved.

So by evolve do you mean change within the species, or do you mean changing from one species to another?

I'm thinking that us beaver trappers probably share about 99.9% of our DNA with a rock.

When did you get them cut off?

its close already the way his knuckles drag.

The problem people have with evolution is understanding the time frame. Millions of years of change, viewed from a perspective where a hundred years is a long time to live. Just as the past is hard to fathom, so is the future. Simple things we use everyday, would seem completely impossible to someone a hundred years ago, or even fifty years ago now.

If you look up at the stars at night, millions or billions of stars and an even greater number of planets. I think it would be naive or self serving to think we are alone out here. However we have arrived at this point in time, I certainly think it has to be possible the same thing has happened on other planets.

When startrek was new and it came on tv late Saturday night after rassling, I was a kid. I thought those flip up communicators were pretty cool. Lots of people didn't have a phone in their home. Never thought I would live to see real communicators.

My grandad was born in 1903, the year the Wright bros flew the first motor propelled flying machine. We watched the first moon landing at his house on his TV. He kept saying it wasn't real. It was a lot to happen in one mans lifetime. In my lifetime we have gone from a computer taking up an entire building at Cape Canaveral to a cell phone with more computing ability than that whole building had. I know how he felt.

So to say that a species wont change over thousands of generations is just silly. 200 years ago for example people were much shorter. A 6 foot tall man was not common.

There is also some evidence that average IQ has increased and is still increasing.

Last wednesday.

Take fish as an example, fresh water fish, salt water fish, warm water fish, cold water fish. All of them have adapted/evolved to survive in the environment available to them, or an environment that enables them to thrive.

I too think this but I would add that I also find it arrogant to think it has all been made for us. There are 100's of billions of galaxies in what is just the observable universe. Each containing hundreds of billions of stars and planets. It's mind numbing and I think it's easier to take the "I know everything" route than admit there is just too much out there to know.

Interesting that you bring up fish. Where I lived in the Ecuadorean Amazon for two years we had various freshwater specimens of salt water species that had adapted to fresh water. Including stingrays and porpoises. The Amazon millions of years ago was covered by the Pacific ocean. Gradually the continental shift pushed up the Andes, shutting the region off and caused the rivers to reverse direction and flow to the Atlantic.

Freshwater adaption was something some species were able to pull off through the forces of evolution.