Socialism ???

Is it considered a political thread when the subject is so far from reality that it becomes a punchline? Really, I cannot believe that socialism is even being considered. Have people lost their minds? We have been fighting it and forms of it for the last 100 years and all of a sudden people believe it's a good idea? Examples are everywhere, including modern day examples of it happening right this very minute of the failure and suffering that it causes and through all of this, not one example of it succeeding..... EVER! I know for most of us on here I am preaching to the choir but I can't wrap my head around the mental numbness it must take to buy into this farce. It must be a mental disorder?

Plenty of idiots in the world.

It's all about the EASY button. Don't have to get up and go to work, it's worth it to a Democrat apparently.

very welll put my thoughts exactly...... im not sure whats going on but im not going to let corona... or big brother rule my life....im gonna go to work tomorrow even if im hung over!!!

Plenty of people wanting to be taken care off don't want any responsibility, want everything now, somebody else fault
What bothered me the most the last 15 or so years I worked was the lack of initiative of new employees to learn skills and take on more responsibility even for higher pay let alone personal satisfaction BUT they did not want anyone else doing it either bringing everyone down to their level was more acceptable than making an effort

If we don't keep bailing everyone and every business. Maybe people will get it see that they have to work to be better have more drive not be dependent on the tax money of others if not you bet the things that are happening now being told when where you can go what you can get will get a lot worse.

The really weird thing is that, while protesting, they often scream "freedom"??????? Good grief, What they are fighting for is about the furthest thing away from freedom you could ask for. These idiots do not understand that they will be squashed like a bug under socialism. They will be lucky not to starve to death, yet they are begging for it! How can people be so stupid?

Most people proclaiming socialism doesnt have a clue what it means. Many thinks it is being on social media and talking to people.

It’s all about a perverted concept of equality and acceptance where instead of the best rising to the top and getting the benefits of doing so, it’s based on pushing everyone down to the lowest common denominator and making everyone the same by forcing compliance on those that would work hard to get ahead

And it doesn’t matter what race or socio economical strata your from you will find it laying in wait

Like others I just don’t understand it or how people can fall for it, I remember seeing news stories about schools where students were performing well under where they should be and all the parents and community leaders instead of demanding that teachers and the schools improved what they were doing instead lowered the requirements

It used to be that parents pushed their kids to to succeed and get ahead of everyone else now it seems they want not only others kids to be mediocre but their own as well

I agree Finster , i would love to divide the country down the middle and make two countries . One country ( america ) limited government , capitilism

The other ( anti america ) big governmemt socialism / communism


Now people would need to move to the appropriate country.........CHOOSE A SIDE !!!!

Fence riders get a bullet ......


Now what would happen to each country ??? This would be an excellent experiment in my opinon

When some people say "freedom", what they really mean is "no responsibilities". They want the "freedom" to be taken care of without having to work for anything.

You know the feeling when you’re in your early 20’s and you go back home for a visit and Mom makes you lunch and serves you coffee and Dad is excited to see you and you all chat about how life is going and they slip you a $20 as you leave to make life just a little bit easier on you?

That’s how socialism feels. Great eh!

I would like to say yes to this but in my entire life, my dad never slipped me a 20...…. he never slipped me any money on the side that I remember.... In fact, the last money I remember getting from my parents was when I was 14 and going with my friends family on vacation for a week. I asked for $20 and after a 3 hour debate on the subject was begrudging given it. However, I was told that this was it and when I returned, I was expected to get a job. (already had a few cutting grass but was trying to save money for traps and ammo).

In it's ideal form, democratic socialism is about government that works for ordinary people, not big money interests. Our political system has been screwing average Americans over in the interest of billionaire CEOs and wall street for so long that it's basically background noise at this point. We all accept it as normal as if there's no other way. I think just like capitalism, there is a way to get socialism right and a way to get it wrong.

It's not about free stuff, it's about politicians serving the best interests of those who aren't lining their pockets. Sure it can get twisted into nonsense, and I'm not a fan of many folks who are pushing it, but I don't think what we have now is the best answer either.

To use the $20 dollar bill example, it'd be you paying your dad $20 for a ride to the parts store to pick up a new starter for your truck while your visiting home in your early 20s. The socialist father would take you to the parts store. The capitalist father would take your money, then on the way to the parts store he sees a half naked bimbo with a bag of cocaine hitching on the side of the road, kicks you out. When you see him later he has a great explanation, and solicits you to pay him for a other ride to the parts store.

The capitalist father owns the parts store.

Mike

And his son will inherit it.Socialism?

In my example, the father is a political figure. If we're talking full on capitalism, I wouldn't be surprised if he's got a business interest in the parts store. Make a little more money of his sons $20, which on this scenario represents your tax dollars.

And he still gets the girl and the cocaine.

No, that's nepotism... socialism is when the government takes it after dad dies and redistributes it as they see fit... Usually to their benefit.

Mike

If he owns the parts store who cares how he spends his money?

Mike

I think that's communism, but I'm no scholar.

Cuz you hired him to drive. And he's your senator. And it's your tax dollars.

Couldn't agree more Finster! But sadly it's socialism is being slipped under our doors little by little. Let's face it, as much as I hate to say we're not a true capitalist country. I'm sure every capitalist on this site will send their stimulus check back? I mean come on, everyone likes a little something for free. Every conservative on this site has a liberal bone hidden away, it's true! Whether it be zoning ordinances, stimulus money, etc. you see where I'm going. We all have wanted to impose some of our beliefs on others even if just a little. People in this country aren't hungry enough, yet! A lot or a little socialism is here. Best that can be done is try like hades to limit it!!!!

Ya got some issues I believe. Information and education on the matter are at the top of the list and I don't say that to belittle you, I say that as objective criticism.

So we scrap the greatest economic system ever 'cuz one sleazeball likes hookers and blow... Sounds legit.

Mike

Actually, I've been trying to figure a way to do that. I don't want the money and would like to send it back. However, I'll be taxed on it. Does anyone know how I can send it back and get a receipt? Not get taxed on it? I'll send it back if I can do that.

No worries. The problem is where that information is coming from, you can find plenty to back up or negate any position you could take on the matter. Either way it's all theoretical. I don't for a second think that our country could pull off socialism in a good way. Those in power would bend it to their benefit as easily as any other system. But I do think at it's heart it is a good thing.

Translation: It just hasn't been implemented properly.

Mike

Spot on. Most things haven't or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

History has shown us that capitalism does more to lift the masses than socialism. The growing divide between classes is a direct result of socialistic policies.

Well, you can go there with anything. Sure, on paper socialism is a great thing. However if you are on paper, so is communism and fascism! They all work great on paper. They all provide for all of the masses and they are all perfect utopian governments. That would be great if everyone in power was a robot with nothing but governing in their agenda. Now introduce humans into the equation. The first and last thing you get is tyranny. Not once, not twice, not maybe but every single time that it has ever been tried in the history of mankind form biblical times until today. I do not understand how people do not get it? The only proven system that has worked is capitalism. It has worked so well that it has made the United States the only true superpower in the world in less than 250 years from our founding. and beside this pandemic, stronger than ever. Yet idiots feel they need to change it? It baffles me. No one in this country cannot succeed with effort. You may not own a mansion but you will live a good life. People that don't are lazy in my opinion and I grew up with less than most so I am not talking out of my butt.

Anyone have experience with "community gardens"? Our town did it here, donating a small piece of land, the idea being some folks didn't have the space or skills to garden on their own, so the experienced folks would teach them how and everyone would work together and split the work, expenses and harvest. Socialist utopia! Maybe Joe didn't have money for seed but he could show up on a hoeing day. 5 people did the majority of the work, all the time thinking that they were doing good for the community. Some of the older generation really bought into the idea that they were going to get a lot of help later in the season. Same 5 kept the thing going all summer, until harvest when >25 showed up with their baskets to harvest away. Of course the 5 were stunned by the freeloaders harvesting everything at every opportunity. A couple of the workers didn't get as much as 1 meal of green beans, such was the intensity of freeloader harvest. The last straw was some of the commie freeloaders absconded with the last few tomatoes and pumpkins to experiment with capitalism by selling them at the farmers market for some quick dispensary cash. Year two, none of the 5 workers showed up, the freeloaders then begged the city for money to buy the seeds. The city summarily dismissed that request and added that the users would have to pay a bit of the water bill this year. Died a quick death. Several of the freeloaders could be seen around town lamenting how great having all those veggies were (they really had a bountiful harvest that first year) but not a single one of them would do the work to grow another harvest. The take home message is that even on what seems like a small manageable scale, socialism or communism doesn't work.

Even a little red hen can tell you socialism doesn't work. She even instructed the non-workers to pound sand at the end of the story!

Socialism in its pure form is complete evil. It cares soley about the State. In socialism, the purpose of the people is to benefit the State. So if you dont benefit the State, you'll have to justify your existence to the local panel.

Socialism proponents talk about "The Workers" all the time because you are only allowed to be a worker. You dont get to run a business, unless your part of the Party and it sanctioned. You cant become wealthy under socialism unless you're in the upper echelons of the Party or State. When I say Party or State in the discussion of Socialism, they are one and the same so they are interchangeable, there are no other political parties. They might exist like the Constitution Party, they have nobody in significant office and no hopes achieving it.

Dont get fooled about Democratic Socialism. Its Socialism with a PR department. You go down the road of Socialism, there is no more democracy, only State control by whatever Party delivered it.

Everybody's Talkin like it's something that could happen. It's here!. It's now!. The United States is a socialist country right now. And they did it without a fight. They slowly took over the farmers. Slowly getting them dependent on one government program after another. Many other entities and now the Coronavirus finished us off. And there's no going back and there's nothing you're going to do about it either.

Animal Farm, the book.

Another thing is no matter what system you choose you can never prevent corruption, it's simply human nature. Progressive intelligenca believe that man is good by default and man can be peefected, which is why they dismiss religion of any sort. That believe is obviously flawed so the only thing left is total control because those plebes just can't get with the program.

Our founders knew that for our Republic to last is to be a moral society, as it can't survive an immoral one. Immorality is winning.

The Russians are Coming, the Russians are Coming, and they came! Now I think they have put smallpox in our blankets, lol !

We have a lot of welfare programs, doesn't make us socialist. Sweden is the same way and keep yelling at Bernie to stop calling them socialist. Once we start nationalizing businesses, then we're socialist.

I think the first community garden was in Jamestown after it was founded. Same results.
An "open house" where there is free food to show customer appreciation is always interesting. Some will show up 30 minutes early to be first in line, gorge themselves, and take some to go. Folks will spend $10 on gas to get a free $5 meal. And bring the whole family of course, even if they have never purchased from the business.

Finster,

It is very hard to unweave what has been taught to some by educators, parents, and culture.
That 100 years of enlightenment teaching has been sowed long enough now, it has deep roots.

Plenty of aspects of our nation are "socialist", our road and highway system, public lands, regulatory agencies (for better or worse). Beyond that we have a recent history of massive amounts of federal dollars pouring into things like the banking system, auto manufacturing and airlines. Sure they aren't being run by the federal government, but that doesn't look like stone cold capitalism to me either.

All of these things don't look good on paper. Communism and Marxist style socialism are based on an authoritarian government. No one wants that. Well, I can think of one guy who does but I won't go there. Even Bernie wasn't calling for democratic socialism (socialism with an democratically elected government) across the board. Health Care is the only major program he was looking to shift into being federally run. He really never should have used the S word. People in this country get rabid when they hear any of those terms.

So to clear the air I agree that yes, full on, 100% socialism would be a distaster in this country. It will also never happen. But we can and should pick and choose elements from that strategy that benefit the country. We already got plenty of it going on as I pointed about above.

No, we choose to do them as a people. We should not let the government do those things. That's why charity works so much better than any government program.

Democratic socialism is a one time deal. You only get one election, because you can't elect yourself back out of it.
You can elect Bernie and a few followers and survive. Once implemented, it can't be undone except via revolution. It cannot tolerate the people rejecting it to once they realize that they were lied to. That's why SDS said that you would have to kill 20% of the population once they took over.

We have socialistic programs now, earned income tax credit is one. Welfare, food stamps, free school lunches, it's a long list.

What Bernie and his ill are really arguing for if people still believe in definitions is a massive welfare state. Socialism, no matter what prefix you put before it is and will always be the State control of the means of production and it's distribution. Capitalism is private control of capital, property and the distribution of goods is determined by the free market.

No government will ever be able to stand in the Ayn Rand version of libertarianism or under communism/socialism , maybe on a small island perhaps with 20 people.

You take away property rights en masse and you'll get a revolution. We are kinda living through it now, something will happen if this goes past May.

The problem with the welfare state we have, not counting the fact we can't afford it, is that people are too comfortable in it. Even those in complete dependacy on the state are still in the top 10% of the world. It's dehumanizing and evil.

We have more takers then producers and have for awhile, why should the push for socialism be a surprise?

Sounds crazy Don't it? But that's the attitude that will perpetuate The Progressive Movement. Take a look around! One thing you can count on. The more things stay the same the more socialist it's going to be. Short of some type of revolution. Explain to me how I'm wrong?

I think it's mostly these younger people who don't know any better. They like the idea of all the free stuff, but don't realize somebody has to work to subsidize it. Pretty soon the workers funding the lazy ones lifestyle, will get fed up. They'll want the same for themselves and will stop working. Then the funding will have to come from corporations who will leave the country. That will be the collapse of America.

Socialism denies human nature. In that if one doesn't get any reward for his work at best he goes thru the motions and does the minimum to get by or if one wants to he can survive by not working.
While capitalism embraces human nature and rewards the thinkers and doers. If you don't work you starve.
One motivates the other doesn't.

I worked at a Tool Shop back in the late '70's. We had 2 Machine repair guys that we'd hire on and off for fixing machines when needed.
They came from Czechoslovakia when it was under Communist rule. They actually built an airplane in their garage and flew it over the boarder to escape.

One of the guys told me a line about Communism that I'll never forget. He said that it summed up Communism.

"In Communism what's yours is mine and whats mine is none of your business"
Remember that Socialism is the first step to Communism.

Yup, that sounds bad. Luckily there isn't a chance that would ever happen here. Way too much money being made with the current system. Those with the money and power are not going to change a system that provides the money and power. That's human nature.

That's true, except those with the money and power will want to keep the money and power. So, if you start taking their money they will move to another country where they can continue to keep it just like has happened in the past.

Problem is they don't teach history in school any more.

Isn't that the truth?

Don't even have to take a us history class in many US colleges to get a history degree.

I no longer believe most peoples beliefs against socialism and redistribution are principled as most people always defend the socialism or redistribution they benefit from. Farmers will go on and on about welfare leeches but they rarely complain about CRP, Ethanol, Subsidized insurance or cheap foreign labor that has been imported. The folks who served in the Military should get exactly what they were promised but I have been chastised on this site multiple times for saying we should not expand military benefits beyond what was promised. Most parents do not complain about the public schools they send their kids to. A politician can't even seem to bring up social security reforms and still get elected.

"Socialism for me but not for thee" seems to be the desire for most people.

I planted, weeded, harvested and managed a 3/4 acre veggie garden at our neighboring small village United Ministries Center for 3 years. The first two years I had some volunteer help and had a broad spectrum of garden veggies which was a lot of work. The idea was we hoped to get enough donations from those visiting the resale store to at least buy the seed. That never happened. We hauled over 6,000 lbs. of fresh veggies through the store and could not get $200 in donations. The last year or 3rd year I planted the whole thing to sweet corn as that was lower cost and much less work. I can remember people with 40K SUVs sitting in the parking lot waiting for the corn to be brought in and take a couple dozen and drive off. They could not even help pick the stuff. I had some very low income families help in the garden but not any with nice vehicles.
I plant enough stuff in two gardens yet to give away some food items but that is my choice. We thought that this ministries garden would at least cover the seed and gas cost to work and rotor till the garden but it could not.
This is in a very rural area and not influenced by large metro centers.

Bryce

Can you name one other country or govt that is better for it citizens than ours, If you can you should make it known to about a million wanna be immigrants. Also to all those people fleeing this country you should tell them where to go.

Its called stimulism now not socialism-makes it more acceptable.

Socialism is okay when its "your guy" pushing it.

Cows and Government

Socialism

You have two cows. The government takes one and give one to your neighbor.

Communism

You have two cows. The government takes them both and promises you milk but you starve.

Fascism

You have two cows. The government takes them and sells you the milk.

Bureaucracy

You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, and then pours it down the drain.

Capitalism

You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

Bain Capitalism

You have two cows. You sell one, force the other to produce the milk of four cows and then act surprised when it drops dead.

Redistributionism

You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point that you must sell them both in order to support someone else who already got a free cow from the government.

==============================================



A CHRISTIAN:

You have two cows. You keep one and give one to your neighbor.

A SOCIALIST:

You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.

A REPUBLICAN:

You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So what?

A DEMOCRAT:

You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor. You feel righteous.

A FASCIST:

You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you the milk. You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage.

A CAPITALIST:

You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

============================================

A FRENCH CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows.

A JAPANESE CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk.

A GERMAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You re-engineer them so they live for 100 years, eat once a month, and milk themselves.

AN ITALIAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows but you don’t know where they are. You break for lunch.

A RUSSIAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka.

A SWISS CORPORATION:

You have 5000 cows, none of which belongs to you. You charge for storing them for others.

A TALIBAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You turn them loose in the Afghan “countryside” and they both die. You blame the godless American infidels and the Jews.

AN INDIAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You worship them.

Point taken, and I agree. We really do have it great here. I have everything I need and then some. But that don't mean all new ideas are automatically evil, or should be lumped with the worst manifestation of it's principles.

What is the new ideas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipfh358z0Y0

Sounds familiar. I was a member of a Lions Club for 20 yrs. All volunteer organizations end up the same.

[img]https://giphy.com/gifs/dog-monkey-monkeys-yLZQKurQvmIAo[/img]

?

All men are created equally. What they do with their time on earth is not all equal and should be compensated as seen fit by those who are providing the compensation.

All men are not created equal and therein lies the problem. Equality under the law and being created equal are not the same. Natural talents, intelligence, physical abilities are not equal and will always cause the creation of a hierarchy among humans.

He's looking them up right now in his Alinsky handbook.

AMEN !!!

I can see where socialism might appeal to those who have limited ambitions and limited means.

I do believe that is Survival of the Fittest!

Is man the only animal on the planet that thinks he's immune from fighting for survival?

Yes

Laws were originally created by the strong to protect that strength but over time those laws have been compromised by those weaker then them in a effort to shackle the strongest from being able to employ that strength for their own benefit wither that strength is physical, mental or of other kinds and it is only going to become worse

That’s not to say that all laws are bad just that laws trying to make everyone fit into some kind of mediocre mold is

The best and brightest should rise to the top as an example of what we should strive for even if we never reach it

Lol. No no no no. Laws have their roots in the Bible. The Bible being a pretty good handbook for Humanity. To Live like human beings and not animals. .

Wow,,sounds like a bunch of selfish folks.Too bad

I guess you are too young to remember when airport security was provided by private businesses. Then their businesses got nationalized and now they aren't. America has a mixed economy that has many sectors that are controlled or operated by the State. It will continue to slowly become more and more socialist because most of you people want it.

Not all airports have TSA. Some do their own security. Unfortunately there's too many gutless wonders that let the TSA takeover.

More like LAZY!!! ENTITLED ETC.

First they came for the Jews, but since I wasn't a Jew it wasn't my problem, Then they came for the....... repeat!

Government is involved in farming, airlines, banking, oil. They don't own it but they take a cut and tell them how to conduct their business, guess that's better than Socialism.

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich; a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan." All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the third test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, all failed and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

It could not be any simpler than that.