Covid-Death rates in the United States.

As of today May 3rd, 2020 the CDC is reporting 64,283 deaths in the United States from Covid-19. While looking at those numbers it’s hard to imagine a government agency would inflate numbers but then we have to look at how they are getting those numbers. I will say Covid is killing a certain demographic of the population and it’s not to be taken lightly. However, as I will show you there’s ways it is being inflated. Let’s start with a quote from the CDC themselves.
“As of April 14, 2020, CDC case counts and death counts include both confirmed and probable cases and deaths.”
Well what does that mean confirmed and probable? Well lets look a little deeper into the rabbit hole.
“A confirmed case or death is defined by meeting confirmatory laboratory evidence for COVID-19.
A probable case or death is defined by one of the following:
• Meeting clinical criteria AND epidemiologic evidence with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID-19
• Meeting presumptive laboratory evidence AND either clinical criteria OR epidemiologic evidence
• Meeting vital records criteria with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID19”
So a confirmed case we have a positive laboratory test for Covid-19 at the time of expiration (not necessarily even a guarantee cause of death from Covid but contributing factor). For the probable/presumptive cases we have to meet these guidelines above. So what are they? Let me show you.

Clinical criteria:
"At least two of the following symptoms: fever (measured or subjective), chills, rigors, myalgia,
headache, sore throat, new olfactory and taste disorder(s)"
I don’t know how many people you’ve been around that die. Almost every person I’ve been around that hasn’t died immediately from an illness has an immune response and when they are near death the body temperature spikes. A fever is also found in a large amount of illnesses outside of Covid-19.
OR
"At least one of the following symptoms: cough, shortness of breath, or difficulty breathing"
These symptoms are found in a whole host of illnesses, cardiac problems, and even that pneumonia that we have seemed to cure during this pandemic.
OR
"Severe respiratory illness with at least one of the following:
• Clinical or radiographic evidence of pneumonia, or
• Acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS). "
There’s that pneumonia again. So we meet “clinical criteria” for death by Covid-19 by having pneumonia found on a chest x-ray. Let’s just clear that up.

Laboratory Criteria:
"Laboratory evidence using a method approved or authorized by the FDA or designated authority:
Confirmatory laboratory evidence:
Detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA in a clinical specimen using a molecular amplification detection
test
Presumptive laboratory evidence:
; Detection of specific antigen in a clinical specimen
Detection of specific antibody in serum, plasma, or whole blood indicative of a new or recent
infection "
There’s that word presumptive again which has been all around since Covid began. So reading this if a patient dies and has an antibody that shows they’ve been infected with Covid-19 at some point they meet laboratory criteria for death by Covid.

Epidemiology:
"One or more of the following exposures in the 14 days before onset of symptoms:
Close contact** with a confirmed or probable case of COVID-19 disease; or
Close contact** with a person with:
o clinically compatible illness AND
o linkage to a confirmed case of COVID-19 disease.
Travel to or residence in an area with sustained, ongoing community transmission of SARS-CoV2.
Member of a risk cohort as defined by public health authorities during an outbreak."

At this point there isn’t a state in the United States that hasn’t had some type of sustained ongoing transmission of Covid-19. So essentially every patient that presents to the hospital would meet the epidemiology criteria for death by Covid.

Now this one really makes a guy scratch his head.
"•Meeting vital records criteria with no confirmatory laboratory testing performed for COVID19”
So wait you can meet criteria for being one of the 64,283 deaths in the United States today without even being tested for Covid 19? What’s this vital record criteria we must have then?
"A death certificate that lists COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death."
So to meet vital records criteria the death certificate simply has to say Covid-19 or SARS-CoV-2 as a contributing factor but we never tested for either of those things to prove it. Why would anyone do that? I’ll let you be the judge.

It is very apparent the covid death rate is inflated. I would be interested to see how the numbers of heart disease deaths, cancer deaths, regular flu deaths, pneumonia deaths, and others this year compare to last year's for the same time frames. I bet the deaths attributed to those causes are significantly lower this year. Maybe those comparisons could be used to find a true death rate for covid 19.

~500,000 persons normally die in the US the past 2 months(March & April) every year . So how many more have died???

It won't be long now Wade and the reality will come out now that more testing is being done.

I was a firm believer the virus was going to be serious, also a firm believer the cure is worse than the disease.

Latest figures from the governor of New York.

12.3 percent have antibodies for the virus.

That correlates to 2.5 million people in the state if the study is correct. 25,000 "confirmed" deaths.

This whole mess I'm blaming on the democrats. Lol

They do the same thing with the flu every year and nobody cares.

"The current near- hysterical preoccupation with saftey is at best a waste of resources and a crimp on the human spirirt, and at worst an invitation to totalitarianism."

Michael Crichton M.D. Harvard Medical School.

The American people have very much been deceived in this circumstance, the question is will we tolerate it? They want a country were the people are run my the government NOT were the government is run by the people. Look around and see how much the government is dictating how much we do. This country is founded on the opposite.

The way I see it, you can call a death by about anything you want. Guy drops his gun while sitting in his tree stand, it goes off and kills him. Man shoots himself. You can make deaths sound any way you want, so whether the covid deaths are accurate or not is based on do you want them to accurate or do you want them to be wrong.

We've all heard or read the comment it's not any worse then the flu, or 60,000 die from the flu each year.

Of course it takes 6 months for 60,000 to die from the flu, it took Covid 6 weeks to do the same. But then do 60,000 really die from the flu. Then again maybe we're not counting Covid deaths the same way they count flu deaths.

In the last six flu seasons, the CDC’s reported number of actual confirmed flu deaths — that is, counting flu deaths the way we are currently counting deaths from the coronavirus — has ranged from 3,448 to 15,620, . . . far lower than the numbers commonly repeated by public officials and even public health experts. . . . In the fine print, the CDC’s flu numbers also include pneumonia deaths.

As to the methods, the linked CDC page points us to this paper and this one. Here’s a brief explanation from the second (and more recent) study:

First, we adjusted the reported annual hospitalization rates from FluSurv-NET [a system that collects flu data from a small subset of U.S. health-care providers] . . . using multipliers that included the probability of being tested for influenza and the sensitivity of influenza testing. . . . Rates of influenza mortality were calculated by multiplying the adjusted rates of hospitalization by the ratio of deaths to hospitalizations.

That “ratio of deaths to hospitalizations,” in turn, comes from massaging still other numbers:

Not all persons who die with influenza are admitted to a hospital prior to their death, and others may die after hospital discharge, thus hospital surveillance does not fully capture deaths due to influenza in the catchment area. To estimate a more complete ratio of deaths to hospitalizations, we also included data on the probability that a person with a respiratory infection would die outside of a hospital admission. For this we used publically available mortality data from the National Center for Health Statistics for the U.S. population in 2010 to identify the deaths attributable to pneumonia and influenza (ICD-10 codes: J10-J18) and the proportion that occurred while hospitalized vs. outside of a hospital admission (e.g., at home, on arrival, in the emergency department, in hospice or long-term care facility).


In other words when it comes to how many die from the flu each year, they're guessing.

China's numbers are probably as close to believable as ours are. And I don't think China is telling the truth.

News media blows lot stuff , way out proportion , exaggeration, never believe everthing u hear. The officials in charge get bonus points when report deaths ftom covid. An health not covid related, noway I believe all hear on covid , it does suck however, everthing close up, get sick work from cold, cough. Sneeze a few timez. Sent home. Not allow. Ur condemn, I get sinus. Stuff year round. Latrly, eyes red at timez, sniffles a lil, nose itches. Cut grass. The other day. Things Pollunating, allegerys, at 1 job, definately some real strict policys, ppl wear masks. Probly no covid there ever, next thing, they be tell me take covid test. An show results, or told can't work, some are totaly flip out on covid. Like plague, maybe I had it in jan or got now. No symptoms, maybe 1-5 ppl got it, ? Who knows , I see test Iowa. On news, not sure what it is ? Drive up test site? Results auto? I not go one them placez unless sick, covid around them placez for sure

To answer a few questions here as there is too much speculation. The CDC states on their website that the flu deaths are ESTIMATES. The people who tried to make the flu worse than this plague used the 60,000 plus estimate, but in the past 10 years, there was on year which only had 12,000 estimated flu deaths.
To those who state that dying by pneumonia is not the flu, are not including normal flu progression. Up until the 1950's, pneumonia was the natural end progression of most diseases. It is why most people never recovered from pneumonia as this is how nature ends life as body organs shut down.

For the question of why would people list Coronavirus as a death without a test. These "people" are doctors and not someone off the street. I was listening to an Indiana physician who stated this plague is twice as deadly as the normal flu by the numbers he is seeing. It requires two doctors on staff at night, where one was necessary previously. He was the first media account of noting that he was seeing numbers of young people, dying of heart attacks, and was noting blood clots were appearing more often in people who were dying. In conference calls, the media began noting after this that other doctors were seeing people who should not be dying of heart attacks, dying of heart attacks. New York morgues began sharing data that in autopsies, bodies were filled with blood clots. That is how people are listed as Covid 19 deaths without a test, because people who are treating this disease, are witnessing patterns they have not noticed previously.

Lastly, human reasoning has a flaw in it breaks down information to simplest of forms. Everyone here noted Coronavirus, and then listed an opinion, but none noted the reality that there are numbers of strains of this virus. It was documented early that China had 2 strains, a highly lethal one and a more moderate one, which people were dropping dead on the streets from heart attacks or low blood pressure. The microbiologists have found at least 8 strains. China said something about 30 strains there, and there were 40 mutations which were noted globally. Infants in London are dying of a strain which is intestinal and heart enlargement. The Italian strain was most lethal to Italians. The Chinese strain to Chinese, and that is why California did not explode like New York, as California did not have the Italian or the Spanish strain. There is now a strain working through Black ghettos which is extremely deadly.

The debate in trying to make this plague less than what it is, has no purpose. The country is opening up in part, and the Darwin candidates will deem this as safe, and there will be another jump in cases and deaths in May. Just as cases are spiking in people who just had to mass gather for Easter. There are peoples in Blacks, Chinese ethnics, Mexicans and Indians who have little resistance to this as they had none with SARS. This is where the death count is in America. Their hygiene is not the best, and coupling that with a plague, they are spreading this and dying in higher numbers than Caucasians of Germanic Slavic groups. It was projected from the start that 50 to 80 percent of Americans will get some form of this virus. This virus is not a breathed upon virus. It is a surface virus, from mucous, blood, semen, tears and feces. The worst infections are coming from feces ingestion in people not washing their hands, and rubbing it all over shopping carts, door handles and other things in public.
Coronavirus can not be a blanket explanation as there are different strains and different transmissions. This is a complex biological weapon. The HIV which was spliced into it, carries the corkscrew bacteria which produces the worst infections in humans from Lyme to Leptospiria. It hides, it lays dormant and waits for the body to weaken. It also is evidenced by different symptoms, activating old flu vaccines in the human body. It has weaknesses though in the glucose and protein structures and that is why Hydroxychloroquine and Ivomec have had positive results, when not skewed by those pushing a vaccine which will not work. The earlier those treatments are started under physician care, the better the results, as the Veterans study which was stated chloroquine did not work, was not administered until 80 year olds were on ventilators and dead. Only Jesus raises from the dead.

Most of us are going to get this virus, and that is why the country is opening up, to spread for the coming wave. Some will contract this virus two or three times, and it is going to kill people for years to come due to the damage it does to body organs.

In closing, the United States had it's first peak wave this past week, in averaging 2500 cases of death per day. The numbers this week look to be holding at around 1600 deaths daily. New waves will spike these numbers in ethnics, but America should trend around 700 deaths per day, until dropping as Italy and France into several hundred per day. Anyone here can do the averages of 30 days in May at 1500 dead per day, is 45000 new deaths this month. That will project to 120,000 dead in America by June, IF this does not surge in opening up and Mexican infections can be curbed.
The data has one d*mning reality in it. The last thing anyone wants is a hot spot erupting, as once the virus starts infecting hundreds or thousands in a community, it just keeps killing no matter the efforts involved. It keeps infecting in the dozens to the hundreds daily. This virus can be contained in numbers under 100 infections, but once it goes hot, it keeps on, just like it is in China, and they are covering up their infections and death rates.

Hunter. Do they shut down the economy for influenza? Were you forced to stay home for influenza? There’s a number of things that kill more people then Covid supposedly has. I’m not going to get into that. The point of this thread is the numbers are inflated for Covid deaths.

Star, I’ll respond to your post but I’ve got to wake up a little bit more.

General flu deaths in this country are most likely under estimated.

If we ever get an official Corono virus number it will be most likely over inflated.

Either way they'll both be estimates.

Star if its as you say, there is no stopping it unless there is a viable vaccine. If that takes 18 months we'll be in the Greatest Depression and likely staring down WWIII

I think it is sad (maybe scary) that we simply do NOT have access to numbers from a reliable source

I was never forced to stay home for Covid, and if you're also from Nebraska you haven't been forced to stay home either. Now I couldn't get a haircut or go to a bar, but there wasn't much else I couldn't do. I get my groceries, go to Menards if I need something for a project, and go to the lake and go fishing.

There's a joke that says if you're antisocial you probably haven't even noticed the changes. To me that may be closer to reality then a joke.

Now have some governors gotten power hungry and gone way overboard, sure they have, and hopefully the people that live in those states will remember that come election time. But let's not blame a few safety measures when it's some power hungry governors that care less about people's rights.

The number of Covid deaths doesn't mean anything in the long run. The curve cannot be changed, a certain amount of people will get it, a certain amount will need hospitalization, and a certain number will die, those numbers will not change they are part of the curve. But you can change how many people need a hospital bed at one time, that is what we did by flattening the curve. We haven't come close to overloading our hospitals in Nebraska and we were one of the few to not have a stay at home order. We can now relax some restrictions and hopefully still not overload the hospitals. That's what it's been all about from day one.

There was no need to take some of the drastic measures some states have taken and continue to take. That's been the problem, not the other safety measures we've taken.

Whatever strain you got in Minnesota pretty much kills old people.

70 plus years of age accounts for 82% of the fatalities
60 plus years of age accounts fro 94% of the fatalities
The median age is 83
So far nobody under 30 years of age has been documented as a Corona kill.

Source: Minnesota department of Health.

That’s where I don’t agree with you. The number of Covid deaths means something. They’ve been used by the media to cause hysteria which is going to be the biggest issue going further. The economy is tanking and we’re going to suffer much more in the long run then covid could have ever caused.

I’m relating this to the entire United States. People have given up their rights with very little resistance. Mainly fueled by the possibility of spreading a virus which is going to be spread regardless and by all means appears to be exaggerated.

People are so focused on who’s going to die from Covid no one is focusing on the big picture. Nebraska didn’t really flatten the curve. We’re leading the states in the number of Covid cases diagnosed increasing in the last week yet the hospitals still aren’t overwhelmed. It’s been in my community for over a month now with ages ranging from infants to 90 year olds with no one on a ventilator.

It’s just not the monster the media wants you to believe it is. As testing increases we’re seeing what many expected all along. For the majority of the population Covid the virus is not causing severe health issues. I agree with Steven. We’re going to dwarf the Great Depression here soon and I don’t disagree War will be too far behind.

Nebraska did flatten the curve. The curve is not about the total number of cases, it's all about not overloading the hospital, which is exactly what we did, and we did it without closing down the state and doing more damage to the economy.

Let the number of cases grow, it has to do that so it slows or stops. I don't see a vaccine coming for this, so the only thing that stops it is 70% of the people getting it. So let those cases grow, but grow at a rate where the hospitals can handle it, and for now that's what we're doing.

The media can cause hysteria about the virus, just as it can cause hysteria about the economy. This is not 2008, Trump is in office not Obama. There is no reason to think the economy is not coming back strong and quickly. The virus is the only thing that held it back and as more and more states open up the economy will open up too. In the long run we may be way better off when it comes to the economy. People have now seen what Trump has been saying all along, we can't depend on China for our manufacturing. Businesses are now seeing the problem with that, and many are looking at ways to get out of China and bring jobs back here to the US.

To me all the doom and gloom about the economy is media driven. It's to the media's advantage to make a big deal about the virus, just as it's to their advantage to claim the economy is in bad shape and will be that way a long time. If a person doesn't believe the media when it comes to the virus, how can someone believe them when it comes to their reporting on the economy.

And on the Covid virus versus the standard flu. Did we shut down for the flu, no can't say we did. But did meat packing plants close because of the flu. no they didn't. So it seems to me it's hard to compare covid to the flu, that and the fact I've never seen the flu kill 60,000 in 6 weeks, with probably another 50,000 or 60,000 to die over the next couple months.

Hunter, did Nebraska flatten the curve by shutting down the businesses you mentioned earlier or did the tidal wave of patients not come because Covid isn't as deadly as we've been told? An overflow of patients at the hospital right now is the least of their worries as many of them are running in the negative which sets the United States up for an even bigger healthcare disaster in the future. There have been positives in my community, not self quarantining, and going around the entire community for at least four weeks. They haven't followed any directives. Wal-marts are still full of people, gas stations are full of people, and people are still socializing. So by all means they've done no social distancing yet there's no influx of patients here. Just empty hospital beds.

I don't have to look at the media to learn about the economy. It's pretty straight driven when people aren't working it's not going to do well. I don't know what else to say about that. I mean I really don't have anything else.

Your last paragraph perfectly points out the reason for this post. There's that 60,000 deaths in 6 week figure I'd hope by reading my post you'd understand is a fallacy. Why didn't the meat packing plants close for influenza? The workers had influenza, spread it, and kept on working. Why is is closing for Covid-19? Everyone at the plant is getting tested for it and everyone is in fear for their lives which also as I have pointed out in this post is not necessarily needed. I've said this before can you imagine if the media reported every daily case of influenza per state in the United States for the entire flu season and reported every death related to influenza? People wouldn't leave their house, ever.

So thats about 10% of what usually die in 2 months.

I certainly hope they have numbers that justify shuting down the most freedom loving country in the world reducing them to a screaming mob fearing the unprecedented loss of basic household items and willingly suck on the govt. thumb Yes large numbers are desperately needed

Or on top of those that usually die in 2 months. But there's not going to be any good numbers on that for quite a while.

I just seem on news. An other nite at 10 o'clock news. Ovewhelming evidence that viris came from lab in wukan, trump supposed to be increasingly after them, supposed sent spy's there. Say he going hold whoever start viris accountable. It does seem like a virus Intentionaly made. Whoever responsible ought be destroyed. Some real dirty crap that attack lungs. An what does. Don't sound like something. Not man made to.me

Some will always feel it's no worse then the flu, but I suspect the people in New York or Spain or Italy or many other areas might disagree with that. They've had firsthand knowledge of what it was like. 60,000 people have died so far, it just seems a bit petty to me to argue over how they died. I mean dead is dead, isn't it. Do we really need to say they died from something else to try and prove a point.

It seems your argument is based on the economy. So why do you feel it's not coming back as strong or stronger? What evidence is there to say it will be bad for a long period of time? Is there something other then the virus to keep the economy down? I'd be more interested in your thoughts on this instead of how many people really died over covid.

Yes, in fact to make the claims that Covid-19 is worth shutting the entire country down I'd like to see facts that it has a mortality and infectious rate as was once reported. Fact of the matter is it doesn't and here we are with some states still extending their shut downs. My argument for this entire thread has been that Covid-19 is not as big of a killer as it has been reported. If you can prove me wrong I'd love to see numbers.

Honestly, I don't really know what you want from me on the economy. We don't need the virus to "keep the economy down." It's already there. The damage has already been done. My thought is the government can't keep printing money and bailing us out. Millions of small businesses in this country won't exist when the dust settles. Farmers are killing off livestock and losing money by the second. The rate of unemployment has sky rocketed. I'm sure the economy will rebound but it likely won't be in our lifetime.

From a local viewpoint a healthcare system that takes care of 30,000 people is near it's knees. Who's going to care for those people without them traveling 100 miles when this is said and done? What about all of those people in their homes with COPD, CAD, HTN, CVA, and a whole host of chronic diseases. They're sitting at home with poor dietary intake, decreased exercise, and an added amount of stress from this. What is going to happen to those people?

What about the people that don't even know they have one of the above diagnoses that can't even have preventative care because their healthcare system is shut down? What about the cancer patients that their treatments have been moved back months due to Covid-19. If you had cancer right now that could be treated I'd think you'd be a bit upset with the system.I could go on and on how this virus is going to rattle America and it surely won't be by the total number of deaths it creates.

That is correct: There is no PROOF that anymore people are dying than normally do!!!!

As to the bold, yes the economy is down, but because of Covid 19, once states open up there's no reason the economy should stay down. The unemployment numbers are temporary once the state opens back up. You should have seen the unemployment numbers back in 1982, those were bad numbers and back then there was no reason to think they were going to get better for a while The same thing goes for 2008, there was no reason to think that economy was coming back quickly. Today is totally different, and I'd really like to hear why the economy is not going to get better in our lifetime. I've seen no evidence to think that is true.

Why will the economy not rebound in our lifetime? what's going to stop it? Why will millions of small businesses not exist? In many states they are opening back up and going back to business in the new usual. They'll make some changes, but people are going back to work. Yes we have some states that will have to wait longer. How did you people in Oregon and Michigan elect the couple of morons you have for governor, I feel sorry for you and your businesses. But their problem is not Covid 19, it's a governor that is playing politics. Politics will hurt their economy, not Covid 19.

As to the bold on a local healthcare system near it's knees, please explain that one if you would. I know of no healthcare system in Nebraska that is overrun because of Covid 19. Yes some cases were sent from the Grand Island hospital to other hospitals, but that was the plan. Make sure the state hospitals are not overrun, and if one gets more cases move them to other hospitals. Since no one is overrun, that's why we could open hospitals back up to elective surgeries again. Another opening of the economy.

If it's all about over reporting Covid 19 deaths which is ruining the economy, I'd like to know how that's going to keep the economy from coming back rather quickly.

But that's not what I said, I said we may well be having our normal heart attack deaths or any other deaths as usual. If we are, then we have to add the 60,000 deaths they want to credit to Covid 19. Now if all other health related deaths are down by say 40,000 or 50,000, then a person might want to say Covid 19 may have really only amounted to 10,000 or 20,000 deaths. But like I said before, does one really need to argue over how 60,000 people died. Is't the fact they died enough. Do you think their families care one way or the other how they died. But then I suppose with the death of a loved one to deal with, they probably aren't trying to foster a bogus number agenda. Probably seems trivial to them.

The economy is not down "because of covid 19", it's been sliding since at least September.

This will not be a temporary blip.

Hunter, it's near its knees due to the fact there are no patients. Not because it's overrun. The place is a ghost town. There's no revenue. With no revenue the healthcare system doesn't survive. That's my point it is not an isolated thing here in Nebraska. There's hospitals across the country that are laying off staff, closing their doors, and who will take care of the people then? Clinics that see 25-30 patients per provider per day down to 3-4 by telehealth. Instead of Covid overwhelming healthcare systems they have essentially suffocated them. The solution? Government bail outs....the issue? Where is this money magically appearing from?

When these hospitals have to shut their doors the only people that are going to suffer are the people living in the community. Their health outcomes will be worse. They will have to travel farther for healthcare. Local economies that are supported by these institutions will not survive. It's a giant snow ball effect.

I will agree that the government elects (lets not turn this political and watch this thread go down) are causing a lot of the issues with the economy. However, what are they using to make these changes and rules? Covid-19 deaths....it's the basis for this entire thing which I have shown at the start of this this thread is a fallacy. Covid is not killing as many people as the powers that be would like the general public to believe.

The unemployment rate for the 2008 recession was 5.5% at the start and 10.2% at the peak. For the 1982 era it was 5.1% and a peak of 10.8%. March of 2020 the United States was at 4.1% what do you suppose the April numbers will show?

Absolutely we should be concerned about how they died. When doctors have come out and said theyve been told to call a death covid when they feel it’s not, that should be concerning to everyone.

April numbers will be 18 to 22 percent. The FED predicts we will see unemployment levels in the 30 percentile before this finishes.

Unemployment was 24 percent during the Depression.

So Steven, I'm not really an economist by trade nor do I consider myself all that well versed with it. Do you feel like that will be something we will recover from rather quickly? Few years? Lots of years?

I wasn't alive during the Great Depression but from what I can gather it lasted around 10 years and spiraled into a war. We're predicted to be beyond that so would it be safe to say this might take a while?

I haven't saw much of a change in life since this all started except the fact that we haven't had to go to ball practices and games everyday for the kids. The local walmart has been packed everytime I go by and the few times I've went in over the past months it's been busier than normal. We had 3 cases a month ago we've only gained a few since, I figured the way all the media talked it would explode with all the people going about their business as usual but it hasn't. Some local churches opened back up today here in East Tenn and restaurants so we shall see what happens. Thankfully the hospital my wife works at is starting to do normal surgeries tomorrow after pretty much shutting down over 2/3 the hospital for the past month, and now she can get back to normal working hours

CDC just dropped the death tole from 63,000 to 37,000. That is a slight change.

Yes hospitals need work and that is why one of the first things to open is elective surgeries, they needed that, hopefully it helps.

I understand we don't want to make it political because discussions usually go bad when you do, but the states that are not opening up and further hurting their economy are doing it for political purposes, not Covid 19 deaths.

There's been a lot of blame put on Trump, and that's fine both sides always blame the other when they have a chance, that's politics. But Trump is a lot smarter then some of those governors. Trump mentioned Hydroxychloroquine and some governors ran out quick and banned it in their state. He mentioned decisions were his and some governors started yelling he couldn't force them to do anything. Then Trump stepped up and said we have to be aware of state's rights, and each governor should have the final decision on what their state does as far as opening back up. Now all those governors that had been playing politics found themselves in a position where they'd actually have to make an important decision. They found themselves being responsible for what happens in the future, they don't want to take the blame if they make the wrong decision, and they can't blame Trump anymore. So they panic and go overboard with rules and restrictions that hurt the people in their state.

Over 700,000 jobs lost in a few weeks, and we went to 4% unemployment, still a long way to go to get to 10%. Maybe we'll get there with April's numbers, but the only thing that did that was Covid 19. Not interest rates or a bad job market or many of the other reasons for a bad economy. I still haven't seen a reason the economy shouldn't take off once more and more states open up and jobs come back.

Yes we could see 10% unemployment like we had in 1982. But interest rates aren't anywhere near what they were then. 10% unemployment and a 30 year home loan could be gotten for 9.9%, that's what I paid for my 30 year loan back then. I can still hear the banker saying anytime you can get 30 year money for under 10% you need to grab it. The key is 1982 and 2008 had their own reasons for a bad economy, they didn't just turn a switch and find the economy was hit hard overnight by a virus. Long term recessions take time to recover, but this is not that type of situation, so there's no evidence it will not recover in our lifetime, and I'm old enough a lifetime warranty doesn't mean as much as it used to.

So what does it change? The only reason they are important is if you disagree with the time we shut things down and what that did to the economy, you want the death numbers to be inaccurate, so you can say see we shouldn't have done that. I'm not saying you yourself are saying that, I'm saying that's what some people want to use the numbers for.

States are not stopping their opening based on deaths, they are basing what the're doing on their hospitals. Here in Nebraska our cases are going up and the deaths are still going up, yet we're opening up because our hospitals can handle it. If you've noticed it's the media that is questioning some governors in some states about opening up, and it is the media that is trying to use deaths to say states shouldn't open. Some governors jump at the opening the media gave them to keep their states closed.

700,000 jobs lost in the past few weeks?

Straight from the department of labor. https://www.dol.gov/ui/data.pdf

The COVID-19 virus continues to impact the number of initial claims and insured unemployment.
UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE WEEKLY CLAIMS
SEASONALLY ADJUSTED DATA
In the week ending April 25, the advance figure for seasonally adjusted initial claims was 3,839,000, a decrease of
603,000 from the previous week's revised level. The previous week's level was revised up by 15,000 from 4,427,000 to
4,442,000. The 4-week moving average was 5,033,250, a decrease of 757,000 from the previous week's revised average.
The previous week's average was revised up by 3,750 from 5,786,500 to 5,790,250.
The advance seasonally adjusted insured unemployment rate was 12.4 percent for the week ending April 18, an
increase of 1.5 percentage points from the previous week's revised rate. This marks the highest level of the seasonally
adjusted insured unemployment rate in the history of the seasonally adjusted series. The previous week's rate was revised
down by 0.1 from 11.0 to 10.9 percent. The advance number for seasonally adjusted insured unemployment during the
week ending April 18 was 17,992,000, an increase of 2,174,000 from the previous week's revised level. This marks the
highest level of seasonally adjusted insured unemployment in the history of the seasonally adjusted series. The previous
week's level was revised down by 158,000 from 15,976,000 to 15,818,000. The 4-week moving average was 13,292,500,
an increase of 3,733,250 from the previous week's revised average. The previous week's average was revised down by
39,000 from 9,598,250 to 9,559,250.

700,000? There was 700,000 a day on average from April 12th to the 18th.

13 million new claims in the first three weeks of April!

Wade, I'm not an economist either, like white 17 said in another thread "I'm not optimistic". It's safe to say I'm even less "optimistic" than Ken is.

The jobs report for the April that should come out this week will be not so rosy so to speak.

I don't want the death numbers to be inaccurate, I'm just showing you they are. I would hope what it would change is when Covid comes around for a second round the country doesn't lose its mind like it just did. Prevent this craziness from occurring twice. This will only be accomplished by showing how crazy the media has let this get out of hand.

The number I gave came from here.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/economy/march-jobs-report-coronavirus/index.html

But I'm glad to go with your numbers. 4% with 13 million jobs lost. Long way to go to get to 10%. We'll see where we go, we may get to 10%, which will put us at a place we've been before.

The report you cited is March numbers, March is a lifetime away.

The unemployment rate as of the 25 of April was 18 percent.

Virginia had 900 reported cases on Saturday alone and 44 deaths. Their worst day yet.

I am still keeping my distance and washing my hands. When we go to a store, the wife goes inside and I stay in the car. Nice guy, huh.

Yes we don't want people to overreact next fall when this starts all over again. That is if it actually slows over the summer the way we all hope it will.

I think the key to remember is the media always wants people to watch them, so they have to make things bigger then they are. Whether we're talking Covid deaths or a bad economy, the media will make it worse then it is. But how people died is no longer driving the shut downs, and I think the majority of people understand this.

Actually I'm looking forward to the next 30 days to see how things go. If states that have opened are seeing more cases, we have to see more cases we're testing more, but the hospitals are able to handle things, what will the other states do. Oregon has almost 4 times as many people as Nebraska but just a few more deaths, yet their governor said she was extending their shut down till July. I don't think people will stand for it. It's going to be an interesting summer if states that opened don't have big problems, and other states stay locked down. The number of deaths excuse is meaningless when other states are open for business and are managing their cases without overloading their hospitals.

Of course there's still the possibility opening up will spike the cases to the point too many people need hospital care and they get overrun. We'll hope that is not the case.

As more and more states open up, it will be interesting to see how those numbers go down.

An even more interesting time to check numbers will be when the extra $600 goes off unemployment. Too many people can make more money while sitting at home. I saw a small business owner went to all the work, and got the loan so they could pay their employees. But the employees were all ticked off, they wanted the unemployment with the extra $600. The small business owner couldn't believe her employees were all mad at her for trying to help.

So now the goal posts move. We might get over 10% in one of your comments but now that Steven has shown we've surpassed that and are already at 18% you resort to "it will be interesting to see how those numbers go down." No I don't think it will be interesting to see. Life is going to be hard for a lot of people. I also don't think the numbers are just going to go down. You can't just snap your fingers and expect the world to be what it was before Covid-19. No matter how bad you want to tell yourself we will just rebound. I am about the farthest person from a tin hat, prepper, or conspiracy theorist but the writing is on the wall.

The goal posts haven't moved, in the end it's always about the numbers going up and then going back down, and it will be interesting to see how fast that happens.

You must feel millions of businesses are going to close down, I believe you said something to that affect a while back. At least that's what it's going to take for your prediction of an economy that won't rebound in our lifetime to come true. It's interesting you don't like media driven hysteria about Covid deaths, yet it seems you have fully bought in to the media driven doom and gloom for our economy. Remember as far as the media is concerned a bad economy is the only thing that could possibly get Trump out of the oval office, so they're going to keep pushing it as hard as you do.

You won't snap your fingers and see all jobs come back, but they will come back. Some businesses will close, but others will open and provide new jobs.

You're right about one thing, the world isn't going to be like before Covid 19. One of the biggest changes I see is a distrust around the world for China, and I fully expect to see Trump exploit that distrust. American businesses will come home, seeing the disadvantage of doing business in China, and they will be bringing new jobs here. Other countries will shift to doing business with the US instead of China, looking for security, again meaning more new jobs here. This pandemic will change the world, but I feel when we're talking about the economy it will make it better for us not worse.

Look around the country. States are opening up, businesses are opening back up, and people are happy to be going back to work. States with governors that keep their people in forced lock downs are seeing those people protesting, wanting to go back to work. In those states the virus isn't keeping the doors closed on businesses, it's strictly politicians playing politics.

Now I am interested in one thing from your post, the bold part. Just what is the writing on the wall? I understand the world is filled with people that see the glass half empty instead of half full, but I'm wondering what writing on the wall you see that makes you feel the economy won't rebound in our lifetime.

A new candidate for the most rediculous thing ever posted.

There's lies, dang lies, and statistics.

Covid killed some people before we started counting. If you die, your rate is 100%.

I guess.

Do some research, BTW job numbers are typically a lagging indicator.

Since when did record unemployment rates become an indicator for an economic meltdown. In retrospect, I suppose, the unemployment rate can only get worse once it hits zero?

It's going to take a little more than that to convince me covid 19 didn't cause the collapse of our economy.

I believe we will have an economic recovery similar to those following The Great Depression and the World Wars. There will be an economic boom created by businesses starting up in the U.S.A. after watching our food and drug supplies manipulated by China, as well as a host of other industries. Our freedom creates resilience and will allow us to recover quickly, given some decent leadership. It won't be overnight, but I see some steady economic growth bin our country once this ridiculousness is over. The Joker in this whole thing is all the " economic stimulus" plans being floated around. If there is any kind of monthly payment plan to the American populace, we are screwed. This whole thing stinks of a way for the Federal Government to take over the "broken" if not "broke" health care system. A lot of moving targets out there at this point. I am still holding cash until I see some positive movement towards the Republic we were founded on.

"This whole thing stinks of a way for the Federal Government to take over the "broken" if not "broke" health care system."

You mean a socialized health care system like Italy? We saw how that worked.

. I said the economy has been sliding since September. Three rate cuts in 2019, the Fed firing up the printing presses back in September that doesn't happen when things are healthy.

Our economy hasn't collapsed yet.

What go happen when trump find out who in China responsible for careless incident of releasing viris unintentionally or even intentional from lab ? Nothing ? China military supposably more powerful US, when I heard it was man made viris., I believe it, something very like flu, no, I don't believe it, others say, that I read trssh when it say release from lab, well turn out I right , official now. It on news,

I think there was a pretty good chance all along they had an accident and the virus got out of the lab.But in the end I don't think that's what will hurt China the most.

China hid the outbreak on day one so they could stockpile medical supplies before any other countries knew there would be a need. Then when information came out about the virus they downplayed the severity to continue stockpiling medical supplies. That is what's going to hurt them the most with everyone else around the world.

Most countries can't do much about it, though I did see the UK may be changing their mind on China handling their 5K. The US has the best shot at doing something that will have an affect, and they can do that economically. A lot of people complained about the tariffs Trump placed on China, but in the end they worked, and China had to come around. A side benefit to that was some companies saw the advantage of moving back home with jobs, and now with the virus even more companies will make that move.

Once things settle down here a little I think you will see Trump go after China economically as a way to make them pay for what happened. Maybe this is one time it pays to have a businessman in office instead of a career politician.

I will let you read this as I am not going to point out all the highlights. I've never considered myself much of an economist but it's pretty crystal clear. As to being similar to the Great Depression and World Wars and then the words "will allow us to recover quickly," from all information I can find the recovery took at minimum 10 years. I don't find that too quickly personally but everyone has their own idea of quickly.

https://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/recovery.htm

I also like this graph..


The stimulus money is definitely another issue at hand. People are making more money staying home on "unemployment" then they did when they were working. What makes you guys think they are going to jump right back into the labor force?

I think anyone in their right mind has seen how government provided healthcare worked for Italy. It would be madness to fall into that mess. I do find it interesting finally, after weeks of me mentioning it they are finally coming out with studies that show ventilating patients was the wrong choice.

"Mortality rates for those who received mechanical ventilation in the 18-to-65 and older-than-65 age groups were 76.4% and 97.2%, respectively. Mortality rates for those in the 18-to-65 and older-than-65 age groups who did not receive mechanical ventilation were 19.8% and 26.6%, respectively (JAMA, 2020)."


Once again something that might have been able to be avoided if there wasn't such a fear of the virus itself ran wild with by the media. Some protocols I have seen were intubating patients at 92% oxygen saturation. We typically don't even apply oxygen to someone until they are below 90% and these people were being intubated.

I'm not sure holding your cash or burying it in the yard is a great choice at this moment. At some point that cash might be worthless. I've done rather well over the last month and a half. Seeing some 30% to 60% daily gains on different stocks. I've got some in for the long haul but I am jumping in the "don't let a crisis go to waste," boat.

It is my opinion the last depression took so long to recover from because Roosevelt's implementation of socialism.

I dont see any good coming from all this stimulous either. I am beginning to suspect the reason this virus thing was, and is, so overblown, was to create a reason for a stimulus package. Keep all the plates spinning and balanced

The rate of recovery from this economic downturn cannot be predicted based on recovery from the great depression. Totally different factors leading into the depression than the current situation.

Well, lets hear your thoughts on exactly how you think we are going to recover then? I'm open to people with facts. Lets see what you think our recovery will look like?

Isn't 2016 an Obama year? Looks a lot like the greatest economy (2017-2019) in the history of the universe. Too bad it (obama's) was the worst.

At least in the case of Nebraska and Iowa, if you lost your job because of Covid 19, and are then offered your job back now that things are opening up. But you turn down the offer of getting your job back, you no longer get the special Covid 19 unemployment with the extra $600.

I have not read reports from other states, I've only seen the reports coming out of Nebraska and Iowa up to this point, but that is the way it is suppose to work.

The neighbors I babysit, who are retired and are recieving their government retirement checks still, told me they both got $1200 stay retired checks.

It makes no sense to try and compare this to the great depression, there is nothing to compare to.

In the great depression there were no jobs to go to for the unemployed. You can't fix unemployment is no one is hiring, and that was the case for the great depression. Because the great depression was economic related not virus related businesses closed over a number of years, so there was no businesses to hire people. It took a long time for new businesses come back and start hiring again. They didn't have a supply of current businesses waiting to start back up.

Here all the businesses were running fine, until the virus hit and many had to temporally close. They didn't close because they were going broke, that's the big difference. Once they start opening up, as many have and many more will in the coming weeks, the jobs will be there again for people to come back to. And as I said in the other post, if they want to sit around at home rather then work, they don't get their Covid unemployment.

Will some businesses not come back from this, sure there will be some, but then there are always businesses that are running on a thin margin and can't make it with a 6 or 8 week close down. There are also businesses that are fine in a good economy when people have money to spend. I'm not sure I'd call them non essential, I'd say they are more like luxury business in that they do good in good times, but if things go bad, they are the first businesses most people see as a luxury instead of a necessity. When I have some extra money I'll spend money there, but if things get tight, that's the first business where I stop spending money. Those types of businesses will probably not make it for 6 or 8 weeks either.

But for the vast majority of businesses they can handle a short shut down and be ready to go as things open up, with jobs available to those that lost theirs. Add in new businesses now that more and more people will not want to do business with China, and the job market has no reason not to grow.

Now if somebody says prove that, I'd say prove to me all the gloom and doom the media pushes about an economy that will take years to recover is true. The media has an agenda, they hate Trump, I don't have an agenda, I'm just using common sense, something that seems in very short supply now a days.

i’m not really sure what point everyone is trying to make. NYC appears to be the hardest hit with New Jersey coming in 2nd best. People are dying from a respiratory disease. Underlying conditions are being noted too. Quite frankly, as you age, everybody has underlying medical conditions. But the thing that seems to be killing them is a no-nonsense inability to breathe characterized by this virus. Realistically, at near 70, I don’t care how my death is recorded, if my wife takes me to the ER because I can’t breathe. And I don’t care whether they say I was over weight, had high blood pressure, was borderline diabetic and was going bald, as long as I’m counted as one who succumbed to covid-19 if that’s what I died from on the day I died.

Seriously, I don’t think this disease is being over-hyped at all. So what if 10,000 deaths weren’t attributed to the right category. I don’t care one bit. We have almost 1.2 million laboratory confirmed cases and 70,000 deaths attributed to one disease and that bothers me enough to stay away from other people. If you don’t want to believe this is serious stuff, so be it. But PLEASE don’t come over, stand close and act like this is no big deal. At close to 70, I don’t need your disbelief and to be exposed to what you may be asymptomatically carrying.

Stay inside your home teacher. Have groceries delivered. Leave them out in the yard in the sun for a couple hours before you bring them in the house. Wear a space suit and breathe sterilized air from a tank when you go out in yard. Nobody cares.


Just dont try and tell me how to live.

Overreact much.

I've read his post three times, and no where did he tell you how to live, he just asked those that don't feel this is a big deal to stay away from him.

I thought this is what us higher risk older people were suppose to do. Take care of ourselves and avoid others like yourself so you can go on with your life without worrying about spreading something to those of us at higher risk.

I don’t believe any of the count.

That's the problem. No one has any facts to support how they think this recovery will happen. It is pure speculation because we have not experienced anything similar to these circumstances before. But if you want my guess I'd say we will bounce back quickly, much faster than after the great depression, because much of what was there when this hit is still there to resume.

I agree that the precise number of deaths does not matter, 60 or 70 thousand it is still tragic. But are you saying you don't care one bit if the numbers are being intentionally inflated? I don't appreciate anyone trying to manipulate the public by altering facts to enhance some agenda.

Had a friend who died 2 weeks ago stage 4 lung cancer and his death certificate is covid .Ive been working everyday in the grocery business and if this virus is so contagious why aren’t all grocery workers sick? We are being lied to I bet the actual death rate is less than 50 percent of these numbers.In our county out of 800+ covid cases we have 50 deaths and 2/3 are from nursing homes.this was from our county health dept which by the way quit reporting where the deaths were coming from last week.It’s al b.s. in my opinion.

Governor's office came out today and said that MN will go from a 1.2 billion surplus in the biennium to a 2.42 billion deficit. Those number will be worse.


I think we need to cut all government employee salaries, cut their vacation, paid holidays, also cut their future pensions and the pensions of all retired government employees.

The states would open up in a hurry.

WI governor promoting cutting expense by 5%. Too bad it wasn't actually 5%, let alone the value it should be. Didn't take long to figure out the previous rainy day fund isn't going to be big enough.

I ran across an interesting video today. Curious to get your thoughts on it?

https://youtu.be/IsuCa6V7prg

I think its very obvious now Fauci is a quack.

There are an average of 7300 deaths a day in the US however because of this virus that number is currently 8300 a day?

Would that change how you feel about the seriousness of the virus?

According to the CDC’s website, in March 2020 there were a total of 193,000 deaths in the US. The average number of deaths in the US for March over the four years prior to 2020 (2016 – 2019) is 227,000. The difference between this year and the average for the past four years is 34,000. 2020 deaths are 85% of the average of the prior four years.

That can’t be, we are in the middle of a deadly virus sweeping the nation.

how many are just normal flu deaths being counted as covid.

All of them.

The consensus among the powers that be and those who know all things is:

We are all gonna die.

We wrangle with:

Which expert to believe.

As a scientist myself, I knew the money injection into the research arena (among other topics) drastically changed the outcome of research in a mighty way back in the '60's. Those Woodstock hippies all grew up, put nice clothes on, got a govt grant, and milked their own versions of a cow. And now with more money from their cow, that we all feed daily, they have over our lifetime risen to positions within the govt whereby they can mandate who/what/when/why/no/no/no.

Most trappers, more than most perhaps, are independent folk. We don't mind a lone day by our lonesome. But we are a social being, and I'm sorry to say my created heart, mind, and soul tell me to my core that all this is serious, but fake at the same time. The schemes of men once again. Wear a mask or don't wear a mask. A SARS virus doesn't care because they are virtually ineffective. Stay 6 feet away or don't. SARS doesn't care. Virology isn't even being considered in all this as we created humans are a plethora of pathogens and viruses in our immune makeup that protects us from all around us. My skin and my own immune system is part of my creation and not supposed to be isolated from it. If you've poured out a bottle of lure or scooped out bait, I can't explain to you how many crappy bugs are in it. MANY! Why didn't you die? Because your immune system is working nicely as it was designed to!

Some must heed the pathogen. The vast majority shouldn't and I wouldn't heed the advice of "experts" who don't follow their own advice. Tell ya what, when I see Fauci tell me to wear a mask (ineffective) and stay 6 foot away (ineffective) and wash my hands (ineffective) and he wears a mask (he doesn't) and stay 6 foot away (he isn't) and wash his hands (he's touching everything in sight)....

then I still won't do it.

signed,
one of His sheep

Blessings y'all
Mark

This is the real bottom line. If we all cower in fear indefinitely in our homes we could probably get that number down below 190,000! So we have learned that by giving up our lives we can reduce the number of deaths.

If YouTube would stop (censoring) taking videos down, there’s some really interesting information coming out of New York. Nursing staff trying to get the proper staff in to care for people and management essentially saying “oh well.” Like they want more deaths in their hospitals, why? They have plenty of well trained staff ready to help but they aren’t being utilized.

A nurse that’s never ran a dialysis machine before “learning on the fly” when there’s a nurse on the floor that’s used it before. She begged for antibiotics for a patient that had s/s of pneumonia but no fever. No intervention till too late. She watched a nurse fall asleep at the nurses station that was supposed to be titrating norepinephrine to keep up the patient’s BP, and the blood pressure tanked essentially leaving the patient brain dead. She said there’s definitely a racial disparity with African American patients receiving less than quality care (she’s Caucasian). She was a traveler from over 500 miles away and there to help. What do you suppose happened when she spoke up?

There’s plenty more like her that have posted videos of the mismanagement of patients in New York. They’ve all been “let go.” If they’re in such a mess of patients and being overwhelmed why would you let nurses that are experts in critical care go because they’re advocating for patients?

The good news for those of you that are worried about your health is you seem to be in areas where medicine is being practiced appropriately. There’s 90 year olds beating the virus with little more than a fever. So you’ve got a running head start at 70.

Mark June, I’ve been one to point out that we are all going to die at some point and hiding in your home isn’t going to stop that. That’s got me a label of being selfish, murderer, and only focused on myself in past posts.

look at the northern pa/ny line and number of cases in ny vrsus pa.

2 or 3 cases in the pa counties and 50-100 in the counrties 5 miles away.ny is takin this for all its worth.

Did you really just do a round about of telling us you critically care what someone else thinks or calls you?

No Hobby. I don’t make a living selling lure to trappers off this site though! I feel pretty good about where I’m at. Was more so just a heads up for Mark. I can assure you I lose no sleep over someone’s opinion of me over the internet.

Over the past three years I've probably made close to 400 videos for youtube, and I've had more then one occasion to interact with them. So with that being said, I'd say if you want to know how to change the brakes on your car or wonder what others think about a product you're thinking of buying, youtube can be a great place to get info. But if you want to know about Covid 19, global warming, or anything about a political candidate, youtube is the last place I'd go. Youtube's policies have gotten to the point they take down videos for almost no reason. If you posted a video showing death from a hurricane they may take it down over a violation of their policies.

I think this leads to conspiracy theories about why certain videos are removed. It may be felt the video was taken down because it gave a side of the story on Covid 19 they don't want shown. But in fact just talking too much about death can get a video taken down. I paint fishing lures, and once had the term paint gun in the title. The word gun got the video flagged. There's a fishing lure called the sexy shad, yep sexy got the video flagged. So youtube has taught me just because a video is removed or flagged it doesn't really mean much.

Now on to the point of the youtube video, I do believe there was a lot of mismanagement in New York, but I've felt most of the mismanagement decisions did not come from the medical field. Sending positive patients back to nursing homes and other bad decisions came from the top either the governor or the mayor. I'm not sure if they got bad advice from their experts, so they didn't listen to their experts, but some bad decisions were made.

I've also felt New York is really a good example of why Covid 19 is not the same as the flu. In our very worst flu seasons have we ever seen hospitals so overrun with patients. Is the mortality rate going to be about the same as the flu, it very well might be. Are the majority dying old and with underlying conditions, yes probably. But the way New York and other big cities got overrun so bad, clearly shows Covid 19 is not the same as the flu.

That being said, it is time to open up for the sake of the economy. New York didn't flatten the curve enough so it had a tough time and maybe some people died that didn't need to. But it also showed us for the most part we can open up and still keep up with the cases and we don't have to overload the hospitals. Unfortunately we're still going to have some states stay locked down when they don't have to. These states are not using data from their hospitals to make their decision, data that shows they can handle the cases if they open. They are basing their decision of fear they may make the wrong decision and what people will say about them.

Wade,

I sorta have no idea what to infer from your posts. I'm not judging at this end. I'm just commenting as others do on a comment style forum. I do make a living off trapping though. Can't tell from the wordsmithing in your post if you prefer people who make a living in trapping not to post on a trapping forum? Perhaps you could point us to a better website for what we do and say?

My point in my earlier post was;

We trappers handle bottles of goo and smelly stuff and actually take the caps/lids off and 'snnnnniiiifffffffff' them to see how we like 'em. Talk about germs!
Our immune system must be more robust than the sedentary Americans IMO.

Mark,
I agree with your earlier post. I was simply pointing out it might not be well received here. Nothing more, nothing less.

I prefer my kids go out and eat dirt. I feel like they’ll have a less complicated life if they let their body do what it’s designed to do.

Understood. That's what I figured.
My point was science, once considered the new gospel of truth, is sadly laced too much and too often with too many individuals who cook the books to show what they knew all along (this is called bias).

I wish it wasn't so - then perhaps we could make the best choices based on solid news.
Instead we sort of bicker.

I'm just going to do what my folks always told me to do. Go outside and play.

Hunter,
I can only imagine on the YouTube. Most of them seem to be posting there because Facebook won’t allow it. She did talk a whole lot about death. Most of her issues seemed to be with the medical professionals managing the floors. How they were staffing and how they didn’t seem to be open to discussion on how to make more patients survive.

The take home message from her and other nurses at certain hospitals in New York was that people were dying that shouldn’t be due to decisions made by hospital management. No one knows exactly where those orders are coming from but they are coming from somewhere.

I simply find it interesting New York is used in a lot of arguments regarding how dangerous the virus itself is when the more these videos come out it appears deaths could have been prevented.

Maybe it would help if the director of the CDC were a wildlife manager. Then he would understand that you manage for the species, not the individual.

Agreed. That was kind of the whole point of this post. The CDC is one of the most cited organizations with the Covid-19. Unfortunately, I’ve cited them plenty of times in the past and even now it’s becoming apparent they have “cooked the books,” I like that it’s got a ring to it.

I just finished research myself and I could have made the numbers go just about anyway I wanted them to go if I had an agenda. Luckily, I just presented my research with my unbiased findings. I spent a month completing the actual study last October. It was a real eye opener for just how biased some research is as I was completing my literature reviews.

The science from China, that I took as gospel 2 months ago, was that this virus will most likely not kill healthy people. That has not changed, correct?

I was a researcher in my grad studies in the early 1980's and my grad chair told me straight up to give the teaching profs what they wanted so that I could graduate. I was studying the intra-species transmutability of invertebrates. Short for.... I was always in the muck getting squirmy things. I worked with two other grad students. Our research was not done as much as some might think.... "research" to figure out something. Nope. It was research to graduate. And most important VERIFY what others believed.

I learned this in those post-hippie days of university research.
Take it all with a bag of salt.
Money leads the noses of the masses.

"I ain't gonna work on Maggie's Farm no more....NO MORE!"

When it comes to youtube, facebook, or any of the other internet sites like that, I rarely believe what I've seen or read without going somewhere else to verify.

For me New York shows us what might have happened in many other cities if we hadn't done what we did with social distancing and some limited closings.Again I've always felt some states went way too far.But why the mismanagement in New York, why did it happen. You mentioned hospital management, and I think that is correct, but correct in that sometimes they were being told what to do. Sending positive patients back to nursing homes came from the state level. Now you have to ask yourself why.

Were they overloaded so they needed to move them back? Well they never used the Navy ship or the Javits Center they opened to treat people, so were they really that overloaded. It was bad there, but not bad enough they needed thousands of beds that were brought in to help them out. So why send positive people back to the worst possible place you could send them, to a nursing home.

I don't have an answer for that one, but a person can make a guess. Panic could be one, the fear the hospital was going to get overloaded so they wanted to move them out to make room. Of course you have to wonder why they didn't just move them to the Navy ship or the Javits Center that never had very many if any people in them. Could it be to avoid adverse publicity. The death numbers are going up, and that's bad publicity. If nursing home patients go back to the nursing home and die, will they really be called Covid 19 patients then or will their deaths total up differently since they didn't die in the hospital. I believe it was just yesterday that NY had to add a bunch of numbers from nursing homes that somehow hadn't made the total.

I guess I look at numbers today and don't think a whole lot about them because they are going to change, and the numbers won't mean that much until you look back on this much later. It's like trying to comment on the reasons a team loses a football game when it's only half time. Sometimes it's best to wait till the dust clears before making a judgement.

I’ve asked myself why plenty of times and money seems to be the driving force.

control and a battle for it is all i see

Faucci is corrupt, it's no secret.

A good watch, same DR. I like Valuetainment and Patrick Bet-David.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgnBldI7KPY

Another thought provoking one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLi6ZrFp6vQ&t=1938s

And a fantastic one about the shape of the economy leading up the pandemic and how much of what is happening now financially is a direct correlation to the policies of the Federal Reserve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsV_YXq-1x4&t=402s&pbjreload=10