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POTUS Churchs

Posted By: Newt

POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 07:48 PM

Seen him on FOX NEWS about 1 hour ago.

ALL Churchs are FREE to open.

If a Govener calls to He said He'll tell the Govener to take a hike. (my words)
Posted By: hippie

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 08:02 PM

I've said this a couple times since Trumps been in.....

It's nice to finally have a President that's for the people!
Posted By: J Staton

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 08:47 PM

Good deal.
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 08:48 PM

Good for him. This is one of the things I like about him, the willingness to stand against the mainstream thought process. He doesn't actually have the power to force governors to reopen churches, but then again I'd argue that the governors never had the power to close them to begin with. So he should clarify and just declare all churches open and make clear his DOJ is willing and ready to do battle with any government goon who says otherwise.
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 08:49 PM

Trump announces that houses of worship are ‘essential,’ calls on governors to open them up

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tr...ntial-calls-on-governors-to-open-them-up is the article from Fox news.
Posted By: The Possum Man

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 08:52 PM

but i thought orange man bad?
Posted By: adam m

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 09:09 PM

I'm curious to see this play out in NM. Last week, our governor said churches can open at 25% capacity but CANNOT allow anyone to sing or chant and many other requirements.
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 09:15 PM

Same here. No Bibles or hymnals in the pews, no children's classes, families have to be six feet apart, no singing, no offering, no communion. Because of the 6 feet apart rules, our church has determined that they can only have 24 families, so we've just been doing our thing at home still.
Posted By: Boco

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 09:19 PM

Watch out for the "second wave"
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 09:19 PM

Nice.
Posted By: trapdog1

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 09:31 PM

Does singing somehow put you in grave danger?
This stupidity has got to stop.
Posted By: Catch22

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by loosegoose
Good for him. This is one of the things I like about him, the willingness to stand against the mainstream thought process. He doesn't actually have the power to force governors to reopen churches, but then again I'd argue that the governors never had the power to close them to begin with. So he should clarify and just declare all churches open and make clear his DOJ is willing and ready to do battle with any government goon who says otherwise.

Barr has made that real a while ago.
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Boco
Watch out for the "second wave"



Trump has stated there won't be a shutdown if there is a second wave. I don't know if he has the authority to prevent that but I agree with his thinking. There shouldn't have been a first shutdown.
Posted By: Kevin Stake

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 10:00 PM

Second wave of stupidity? 80 % political maybe more. God is in control.
Posted By: adam m

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 10:15 PM

Loose goose, it's sad for sure.

Trapdog1, according to a couple of drs that are part of their state's covid team, say singing and chanting causes germs to travel further because of increased pressure. They say this because there was a church where the entire choir got covid.
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Boco
Watch out for the "second wave"


feel free to cower/isolate yourself...we're DONE!
Posted By: Foxpaw

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Boco
Watch out for the "second wave"


When did the first wave end?
Posted By: AntiGov

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 10:38 PM

Nice !

On a side note , i like his no mask stance .......... signaling the bs ............. grin
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by AntiGov
Nice !

On a side note , i like his no mask stance .......... signaling the bs ............. grin

That was pretty good of him to tell the press that he wore one in the back but didn't want to give them the satisfaction of seeing him with it on.....I bet that burned them bad grin
Posted By: stinkypete

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 10:50 PM

The president for the people. If they can pack people in at a grocery store. No reason why you can't go worship. The governor of IL was the first to speak up against this. Surprise!
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:16 PM

More bluster. Trump doesn't have the authority..

You guys like show dogs, I guess. Some dogs don't hunt.

Jim
Posted By: pcr2

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:23 PM

good to get a liberal viewpoint,that you Nancy. cry
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:25 PM

Trump 4 more years
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by trapdog1
Does singing somehow put you in grave danger?
This stupidity has got to stop.

But its' working.........so they will only double down.
Posted By: Catch22

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by pcr2
good to get a liberal viewpoint,that you Nancy. cry

A hee hee a haw haw haw. grin
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by James
More bluster. Trump doesn't have the authority..Jim


can you show me where in the Constitution it states that the governors have the authority to suspend such Rights, as outlined therein?

{I didn't THINK so!}
Posted By: QuietButDeadly

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by James
More bluster. Trump doesn't have the authority..

You guys like show dogs, I guess. Some dogs don't hunt.

Jim


Well Thank You Karen!

And the governors definitely do not have the authority to do what they have done either!
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by James
More bluster. Trump doesn't have the authority..

You guys like show dogs, I guess. Some dogs don't hunt.

Jim


You still researching which "Democrat with a pulse" your going to vote for? I guess Sleepy Joe qualifies, but just barely.
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:32 PM

I didn't say they did.

It's just that Trump doesn't have the authority to either open or close churches.

He's just pandering to votes.

Jim
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:32 PM

Settle in Jimmy. 4 more years.
I love to watch Trump's press conferences. He handles them so well.
Must be so frustrating to a forum Socialist.
Posted By: Catch22

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:33 PM

Feeding the troll again lol, reel it in. grin
Posted By: Pawnee

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by Catch22
Originally Posted by pcr2
good to get a liberal viewpoint,that you Nancy. cry

A hee hee a haw haw haw. grin


I’ll add a hee and a haw to that
laugh
Posted By: pcr2

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:34 PM

hey James-wanna bet?? grin
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by James
I didn't say they did.

It's just that Trump doesn't have the authority to either open or close churches.

He's just pandering to votes. Jim


so, where was your civics lesson when governors overstepped their authority?
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:35 PM

Drain the swamp
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:35 PM

Someone show me what gives Trump the authority.

Jim
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:37 PM

Trump does have the authority to encourage anybody he wants to.
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:37 PM

Only if you show us what gives the governors the authority.
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by white marlin
Originally Posted by James
I didn't say they did.

It's just that Trump doesn't have the authority to either open or close churches.

He's just pandering to votes. Jim


so, where was your civics lesson when governors overstepped their authority?


You're good at changing the subject and trying to draw the suckers out into the weeds. lol

Jim
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by James
Someone show me what gives Trump the authority.

Jim

Show me what gives Governors the authority to close churches
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:38 PM

Trump declared churches as essential.
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by James
Someone show me what gives Trump the authority. Jim


The CONSTITUTION is the authority for freedom of religion (you should read the First Amendment!)...he's just using it to reign in the rogue governors.
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:40 PM

Why don't you read me the part of the First Amendment that you say gives Trump the authority?

Jim
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:41 PM

Orange man bad.
Posted By: pcr2

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:42 PM

bein a atheist and a cheeto man bad this must really hit home.
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:42 PM

Trump has the authority to direct his DOJ to take any state that violates the first amendment to court. He can't just say "governors ,do as I say", of course, but he can use his authority to fight for the first amendment.
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:42 PM

[white marlin]so, where was your civics lesson when governors overstepped their authority?
[/quote]

You're good at changing the subject and trying to draw the suckers out into the weeds. lol

Jim[/quote]

just pointing out the massive inconsistencies of your "logic".
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:44 PM

Give it up, atheist socialist. You're surrounded.
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by James
Why don't you read me the part of the First Amendment that you say gives Trump the authority? Jim


REALLY, Jim?????

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:46 PM

Thank you, loosegoose. Good post, though I think Trump's using the JD to fight for churches may itself be a violation of the First Amendment. I expect the Supreme Court might just toss this one to the states.

Of course, the courts won't have the matter settled until after the election. Canny politics, actually. Cynical, though.

Jim
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/22/20 11:52 PM

I think the DOJ can fight for all religious institutions, as long as they don't single out any one religion and not fight for others. It seems perfectly reasonable that the DOJ could take to court any state that prevents a person from worshipping as they fit, whether or not theyd win is a different matter of course.

Personally I say worshipping your God as you see fit is a natural right that no one can take away no matter what, screw what the government says and do as you please.
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:01 AM

What if I see fit to yell "fire!" in a crowded theatre? Or slander somebody?

The First Amendment is not a guarantee of freedom of however you want to worship, no matter how dangerous it is to others.

The amendments to the Constitution aren't absolutes. What about the churches that want to ingest peyote? Jim Jones's church?


Jim
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:05 AM

Every state is different. The virus has impacted states differently. The impact is not uniform across the country.

That being the case, why shouldn't the question of whether to open churches and other places with crowds be a state issue?

What happened to states' rights, you Southerners?

Jim
Posted By: charles

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:05 AM

He is not a leader, he is a politician. Everything he does is to forward his mission and image. This he does very well.
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:06 AM

Thank God for Trump.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:09 AM

MAGA 4 more years!
Posted By: pcr2

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:09 AM

MAGA
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:10 AM

The cheerleading squad is here.

Jim
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by James
The First Amendment is not a guarantee of freedom of however you want to worship, no matter how dangerous it is to others.

The amendments to the Constitution aren't absolutes. What about the churches that want to ingest peyote? Jim Jones's church? Jim


Native American tribes can ingest peyote for religious purposes.

cite ONE instance where the supreme court has upheld a prohibition of peaceable assembly, or the free exercise of mainstream religious freedom?

Jim Jones is a poor example (and you should know better)….the crime was committed at the end of the situation, and was NOT a part of the everyday "services".
Posted By: Pawnee

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by James
Someone show me what gives Trump the authority.

Jim


He doesn’t really have the authority to tell governors what to do, but he does have the authority to turn the Justice department loose on the States for 1st amendments infringement. Also he’s not pandering for votes. Trump has the uncanny ability to read the pulse of America. Love him or hate him it’s undeniable. I think it’s manly do to the fact that he’s not a politician.
Posted By: pcr2

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:16 AM

or a lawyer
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:18 AM

so, James....I guess if the governors decided to punish shoplifting by cutting off the offenders hands, it would be okay; since the right against cruel and unusual punishment surely isn't absolute.

and I suppose that we could just dispense with a trial (fair or otherwise) if the governors decided that it wasn't needed because of flu season.

I see where you're coming from...
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:23 AM

If there is an insurrection, don't you think the governor has authority to declare martial law?

Jim
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:24 AM

is there currently an insurrection?

perhaps I missed it...
Posted By: Paul Dobbins

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:32 AM

Did he order the governors to open churches, or just had the CDC classify the churches as essential?
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by Paul Dobbins
Did he order the governors to open churches, or just had the CDC classify the churches as essential?


He announced that the CDC would classify churches, synagogues and mosques as essential and urged governors to open them "right now."
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:38 AM

James, in his best Emily Litella voice....

"Never mind".
Posted By: Paul Dobbins

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Lugnut
Originally Posted by Paul Dobbins
Did he order the governors to open churches, or just had the CDC classify the churches as essential?


He announced that the CDC would classify churches, synagogues and mosques as essential and urged governors to open them "right now."


That doesn't sound like he over reached his authority then. No orders to try and force governors to open churches. Folks blowing this up into more than what it is. Much like the fake news folks do.
Posted By: bblwi

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:41 AM

We have not had an in person service since March 15th. We have been offering communion packets every Sunday and Wednesday and this coming Sunday will be a parking lot service as we have a radio station we activated.
I sit on the council and we have held 3 meetings since the Safer at Home declaration was announced. Our synod statewide and nationally have taken a stance of very, very limited in person church for the next few months.
The supreme court ruling has causes some discussion as will this decision today. What I see is a real unfortunate situation as we pit congregation members against each other on what we should or should not do. Our giving has stayed at very good levels even during this shutdown. Even though many or most would greatly desire in person services in our congregation we have stayed strong in our keeping things going and keeping our building clean and ready. If forced to open we may see some real fall out which could lead to more issues than we have at the present time.

Bryce
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:42 AM

Trump Trump Says Places of Worship Are Essential Services
President calls on governors to let churches reopen, threatens to ‘override’ any who don’t
Posted By: J Staton

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by James
Every state is different. The virus has impacted states differently. The impact is not uniform across the country.

That being the case, why shouldn't the question of whether to open churches and other places with crowds be a state issue?

What happened to states' rights, you Southerners?

Jim

This southerner sees it as an individual right that no bureaucrat, whether Federal or State, has the right to infringe. It is not a right granted by either, so therefore they have no authority in the matter. If in the case of this imaginary plague governors continue to infringe on these rights, they might find out what the second amendment right was attended for.
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:45 AM

Trump Announces Houses of Worship are Essential

Trump announces that houses of worship are ‘essential,’ calls on governors to open them up.

President Trump on Friday announced that new Centers for Disease Control guidance will classify houses of worship as “essential,” as he called on governors to allow them to open “right now” after being closed during the coronavirus lockdowns.

Trump announced the policy for churches, synagogues and mosques, during a short briefing at the White House.

"The governors need to do the right thing and allow these very important essential places of faith to open right now--for this weekend," Trump said. "If they don't do it, I will override the governors."

"In America, we need more prayer not less," Trump added.

It's unclear under what authority Trump has to override governors. But Trump took issue with certain businesses being open, while churches are not. Attorney General William Barr already warned last month that coronavirus restrictions by state and local government should be applied evenly and not single out religious organizations.

"Some governors have deemed the liquor stores and abortion clinics as essential," Trump said. "But have left out churches and other houses of worship. It's not right. So I'm correcting this injustice and calling houses of worship essential."

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released interim guidelines Friday for communities of faith that acknowledge "millions of Americans embrace worship as an essential part of life" but also warn that "gatherings present a risk for increasing the spread of COVID-19."

The guidelines encourage the use of cloth face coverings during services, limiting the size of gatherings, social distancing during services and suspending or decreasing choirs and singing in church since "singing may contribute to transmission of COVID-19, possibly through emission of aerosols," the CDC says.

Last week the CDC released new guidelines that schools, businesses and other organizations can use as states reopen from coronavirus shutdowns. The document, however, excluded guidance for churches and faith-based groups because the White House raised concerns about the recommended restrictions, the Associated Press reported.

Cities across the country have been taking their cues from their governors on when and how to reopen. New York Gov. Cuomo's executive order still remains in effect in hard-hit New York City, officials said Friday.

"Houses of worship never closed in New York City, but have been under reasonable capacity requirements that prohibit large gatherings," said Olivia Lapeyrolerie, Mayor Bill de Blasio's deputy press secretary. "We will continue to work closely with faith leaders to ensure people can safely worship during these stressful times, but will not take any steps that could jeopardize New Yorkers' health."

The White House's Friday announcement comes after Trump has been hearing an earful from faith leaders who are unable to hold services due to coronavirus restrictions at a time when their parishioners are grappling with the crisis. Families may be grieving the loss of loved ones from the virus or struggling with job losses but unable to seek respite in their places of worship.

On Thursday, Trump had a conference call with 1,600 pastors and faith leaders from around the country, including Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council. He reassured them he wants to get churches reopened. The evangelical Christian community was instrumental in supporting Trump during his 2016 White House bid and he's maintained strong ties with Christian leaders throughout his presidency.

Trump telegraphed the decision a day earlier when he announced he spoke to the CDC on finding ways to reopen houses of worship during the pandemic.

"We've got to get our churches open," Trump said Thursday.

Churches across the country had to close down due to stay-home orders necessary to stop the spread of the contagious virus. Faith leaders set up online services and families tuned in Sunday mornings from their computers at home.

Earlier in the pandemic, Trump expressed optimism that churches would be opened by Easter Sunday, April 12. But April turned out to be an extremely deadly month for the pandemic, and parishioners had to celebrate Easter from home.

Some faith leaders have argued that social distancing rules have violated First Amendment religious freedoms. Others have defied state and local rules and tried to reopen.

"The discrimination that has been occurring against churches and houses of worship has been shocking," said Kelly Shackelford, president of the First Liberty Institute, a legal organization dedicated to defending religious freedom. “We applaud the President’s strong stance today demanding that these attacks must stop and that churches and houses of worship be freed to safely open. Americans are going to malls and restaurants. They need to be able to go to their houses of worship.”

But other faith leaders warned that congregating is too dangerous right now.

“The President is wrong, plain and simple," said Rabbi Jack Moline, president of Interfaith Alliance. "...The virus does not discriminate between types of gatherings, and neither should the president ... It is completely irresponsible for the president to command a mass reopening of houses of worship. The illness and death that afflicts religious communities who follow the president's dictates will be his responsibility.”

Earlier this week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released a report that showed just how quickly the virus can spread at church. The study showed that two symptomatic people who later tested positive for COVID-19 attended church events in rural Arkansas back in early March. At least 35 of 92 attendees at the events contracted the virus and three of them died. Twenty-six other people in the community with links to the church have also contracted the virus, with one person dying


"We stayed home so the virus quieted down and stopped spreading widely where it was spreading widely, but it's still out there," former CDC director Tom Frieden told Fox News Wednesday. "So anytime you have a lot of people together in an indoor space and one of them is infectious, you can have a lot of cases."
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Bruce T
Trump Trump Says Places of Worship Are Essential Services
President calls on governors to let churches reopen, threatens to ‘override’ any who don’t



that still doesn't force churches to open...it informs over-reaching governors that they should not be restricting First Amendment rights.
Posted By: Paul Dobbins

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Bruce T
Trump Trump Says Places of Worship Are Essential Services
President calls on governors to let churches reopen, threatens to ‘override’ any who don’t


I don't know how he can override them, unless it comes from the courts.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:48 AM

Churches should be able to re-open.......as long as everyone follows the arrows on the floor they should be good to go.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:48 AM

Would anyone here seriously fill in the oval beside Joe Biden's name on a ballot? No, nobody would admit it.
Posted By: Catch22

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by Bruce T
Trump Trump Says Places of Worship Are Essential Services
President calls on governors to let churches reopen, threatens to ‘override’ any who don’t

The President can't override States rights unless he directs the DOJ to get after them for breaching the Constitution. He also can try to direct the withholding of fed dollars. I may be wrong, I was once before lol. Is what I'm saying wrong?
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by Gary Benson
Churches should be able to re-open.......as long as everyone follows the arrows on the floor they should be good to go.

So long as they point to heaven I'm all for it.
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Gary Benson
Would anyone here seriously fill in the oval beside Joe Biden's name on a ballot? No, nobody would admit it.

Nope
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Catch22
Originally Posted by Bruce T
Trump Trump Says Places of Worship Are Essential Services
President calls on governors to let churches reopen, threatens to ‘override’ any who don’t

The President can't override States rights unless he directs the DOJ to get after them for breaching the Constitution. He also can try to direct the withholding of fed dollars. I may be wrong, I was once before lol. Is what I'm saying wrong?


Well you were wrong about that redneck thing so... grin
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Paul Dobbins
Originally Posted by Bruce T
Trump Trump Says Places of Worship Are Essential Services
President calls on governors to let churches reopen, threatens to ‘override’ any who don’t


I don't know how he can override them, unless it comes from the courts.

Don't know.Hope its true.
Posted By: RM trapper

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:54 AM

I'll be going to church Sunday for the first time since March. Tenn opened back up May 1st and alot of churches began having services then but ours is just now opening.
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by James
What if I see fit to yell "fire!" in a crowded theatre? Or slander somebody?

The First Amendment is not a guarantee of freedom of however you want to worship, no matter how dangerous it is to others.

The amendments to the Constitution aren't absolutes. What about the churches that want to ingest peyote? Jim Jones's church?


Jim

Of course there are limits to how you can worship. Sacrificing virgins to the sun God, or honor killing women that don't marry who you want them to, should always be illegal of course. But what about meeting with 12 people in my own house to have a worship service? Where I live right now, that's against the law, and depending on how much of a fuss I made about it, could land me on jail. What about a religious institution providing it's holy books for it's attendees to read, or providing it's holy sacraments, or (think of the children!!!!) sing out loud? Again, where I live that's against the law, and could land a pastor in jail depending on how.much of a fuss they.made.
Posted By: J Staton

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by RM trapper
I'll be going to church Sunday for the first time since March. Tenn opened back up May 1st and alot of churches began having services then but ours is just now opening.

This will be our third service. Still only about 1/3rd of the church attending because our congregation is made up of a bunch of elderly folks. Good to be back and worship in person.
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 01:00 AM

It's a tough issue, and I think I'll leave it to those who get paid to decide such things, i.e., the chimpanzees in the black robes.

Jim
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 01:01 AM

Loos,.........you're talking to an atheist.
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by loosegoose
But what about meeting with 12 people in my own house to have a worship service? Where I live right now, that's against the law, and depending on how much of a fuss I made about it, could land me on jail.


I doubt that is true...unless your state legislature (both houses) passed a bill and the governor signed same stipulating such.

what is much more likely, is that your governor decreed (unilaterally) that you couldn't meet with more than twelve....
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by white marlin
Originally Posted by loosegoose
But what about meeting with 12 people in my own house to have a worship service? Where I live right now, that's against the law, and depending on how much of a fuss I made about it, could land me on jail.


I doubt that is true...unless your state legislature (both houses) passed a bill and the governor signed same stipulating such.

what is much more likely, is that your governor decreed (unilaterally) that you couldn't meet with more than twelve....



Governor issued a royal decree that you can't meet in groups more than 10. Churches are open, but the government doesn't consider my home a church. Even if it did, we'd still be criminals for passing around cups of grape juice and crackers. I'd agree that it's not really against any law, but cops will enforce it just the same.
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by loosegoose
I'd agree that it's not really against any law, but cops will enforce it just the same.


and they can be sued for violating your Civil Rights.
Posted By: trapdog1

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Gary Benson
Churches should be able to re-open.......as long as everyone follows the arrows on the floor they should be good to go.


AND NO SINGING.
Posted By: AntiGov

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 02:24 AM

We can vote the overreaching sob's out for disrespecting the prez and for stomping on the constitution .
Posted By: Vincenator

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 03:09 AM

SO you think dumpy trumpy cares about any church or it parishioners ? The man is just such a moral pillar of hypocrisy and you belive him?He did say he could grab them by the "kitty" He is just pandering for votes and you are dumb enough to follow him like a bunch of lemmings off a cliff. .I guess i'm wrong and he is such a great christian. Karma is going to be a .itch, when his maker comes a calling for him there will be a express ride to the underworld and his spot will be warming up for him.And NO it wont be a cold day in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).Wake up and smell the crap...Cant fix stupid frown
Posted By: Catch22

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by Vincenator
SO you think dumpy trumpy cares about any church or it parishioners ? The man is just such a moral pillar of hypocrisy and you belive him?He did say he could grab them by the "kitty" He is just pandering for votes and you are dumb enough to follow him like a bunch of lemmings off a cliff. .I guess i'm wrong and he is such a great christian. Karma is going to be a .itch, when his maker comes a calling for him there will be a express ride to the underworld and his spot will be warming up for him.And NO it wont be a cold day in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).Wake up and smell the crap...Cant fix stupid frown

Your right lol.
Posted By: AntiGov

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by Vincenator
SO you think dumpy trumpy cares about any church or it parishioners ? The man is just such a moral pillar of hypocrisy and you belive him?He did say he could grab them by the "kitty" He is just pandering for votes and you are dumb enough to follow him like a bunch of lemmings off a cliff. .I guess i'm wrong and he is such a great christian. Karma is going to be a .itch, when his maker comes a calling for him there will be a express ride to the underworld and his spot will be warming up for him.And NO it wont be a cold day in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).Wake up and smell the crap...Cant fix stupid frown



Trump has done more for this country than you ever have .
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Vincenator
SO you think dumpy trumpy cares about any church or it parishioners ? The man is just such a moral pillar of hypocrisy and you belive him?He did say he could grab them by the "kitty" He is just pandering for votes and you are dumb enough to follow him like a bunch of lemmings off a cliff. .I guess i'm wrong and he is such a great christian. Karma is going to be a .itch, when his maker comes a calling for him there will be a express ride to the underworld and his spot will be warming up for him.And NO it wont be a cold day in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).Wake up and smell the crap...Cant fix stupid frown

Lol.......in front of that mirror again.
Posted By: warrior

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by James
More bluster. Trump doesn't have the authority..

You guys like show dogs, I guess. Some dogs don't hunt.

Jim


The governors never had the authority close them in the first place.
Posted By: warrior

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by James
Someone show me what gives Trump the authority.

Jim


Maybe his oath to defend the Constitution? By slapping down a few governors he's defending 1A.
Posted By: warrior

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by James
Thank you, loosegoose. Good post, though I think Trump's using the JD to fight for churches may itself be a violation of the First Amendment. I expect the Supreme Court might just toss this one to the states.

Of course, the courts won't have the matter settled until after the election. Canny politics, actually. Cynical, though.

Jim


Really, a classic bottom feeder ruse. Claiming to not know case law and precedent. Precedent has repeatedly held the state to the same standards as congress in regards to constitutional law.

But of course were the states allowing voluntary school prayer you would argue the complete opposite, when 1A clearly says shall not establish or prohibit.

You can't have it both ways, Karen.
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Vincenator
SO you think dumpy trumpy cares about any church or it parishioners ? The man is just such a moral pillar of hypocrisy and you belive him?He did say he could grab them by the "kitty" He is just pandering for votes and you are dumb enough to follow him like a bunch of lemmings off a cliff. .I guess i'm wrong and he is such a great christian. Karma is going to be a .itch, when his maker comes a calling for him there will be a express ride to the underworld and his spot will be warming up for him.And NO it wont be a cold day in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).Wake up and smell the crap...Cant fix stupid frown

Pretty sure Trump's headed down below and not up above, as you said, but then again that's not for me to judge. Man looks at outward appearances, God looks at the heart. And yeah, he's basically a moral failure. But.......that's all besides the point. You've got to be able to separate his moral failures as a person from his actions as president. He's still doing an awesome thing by pushing for churches to reopen, and if he follows through with action toward governors that resist, I'll applaud him all the more.
Posted By: trapdog1

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Vincenator
SO you think dumpy trumpy cares about any church or it parishioners ? The man is just such a moral pillar of hypocrisy and you belive him?He did say he could grab them by the "kitty" He is just pandering for votes and you are dumb enough to follow him like a bunch of lemmings off a cliff. .I guess i'm wrong and he is such a great christian. Karma is going to be a .itch, when his maker comes a calling for him there will be a express ride to the underworld and his spot will be warming up for him.And NO it wont be a cold day in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).Wake up and smell the crap...Cant fix stupid frown


Dude, relax. Take deep breaths. Maybe volunteer for the Biden campaign. Now there is a moral pillar for ya.
Posted By: pcr2

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 11:22 AM

roses are red
violets are blue

if you really believe that
shame on you.
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by loosegoose
Good for him. This is one of the things I like about him, the willingness to stand against the mainstream thought process. He doesn't actually have the power to force governors to reopen churches, but then again I'd argue that the governors never had the power to close them to begin with. So he should clarify and just declare all churches open and make clear his DOJ is willing and ready to do battle with any government goon who says otherwise.


I believe he does, as was noted on another thread, the Civil War settled that.
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by adam m
Loose goose, it's sad for sure.

Trapdog1, according to a couple of drs that are part of their state's covid team, say singing and chanting causes germs to travel further because of increased pressure. They say this because there was a church where the entire choir got covid.


lol
Posted By: Mark June

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Vincenator
SO you think dumpy trumpy cares about any church or it parishioners ? The man is just such a moral pillar of hypocrisy and you belive him?He did say he could grab them by the "kitty" He is just pandering for votes and you are dumb enough to follow him like a bunch of lemmings off a cliff. .I guess i'm wrong and he is such a great christian. Karma is going to be a .itch, when his maker comes a calling for him there will be a express ride to the underworld and his spot will be warming up for him.And NO it wont be a cold day in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).Wake up and smell the crap...Cant fix stupid frown


Who are we to judge a good Christian or a bad Christian, but sir, you have your theologies mixed up. Karma is a pantheistic belief = Hindus and Buddhists and others. We Christians don't believe in Karma. We believe in God. So judgment will come from the one who will judge us all = Christ.

You can read the POTUS's comments, and then read the news subtitles of what he says, and they two don't match up very often.
Bossman is correct. Trump didn't order anything. He once again stood against the hail of malice and took a barrage from all sides for the good of church go'ers.
Thank you to our President.

Can you imagine getting up each and every day, putting on a suit and tie (some wore golf shirts most days) and battling against all the powers that have been in a power position living high in D.C. for 6 solid decades? Using other people's $$ and the government resources to maintain the status quo.

I believe that some who really hate Trump, don't hate the man. You can't possibly hate someone that much and for that long. They hate a way of life he represents and that voted him in = us. They hate us. They have had a station in D.C. and many other places for 60 solid years, all was going according to plan, and BAM.... this guy (Trump) gets elected. By the gun toting, bible thumping deplorables = us!
They hate/despise our way of life. Because they are smarter than us.

Oh well.
I just smile that the man likes a good game of give and take, and most days defends the deplorable against the enlightened ones. Or the ones who would change society into their utopia = socialists (Marxists), or the Greens (climate changers) or... well it's a fairly long list built up over the last decades.

If he was a trapper, he'd be a top producer. They just can't make him quit.
He knows how to scout, pick good location, and set on sign = the press corp goofballs. They step on the pan every time.

Blessings
Mark
Posted By: walleye101

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Gary Benson
Would anyone here seriously fill in the oval beside Joe Biden's name on a ballot? No, nobody would admit it.


That is why the Dems want to "simplify" voting, with mail in ballots and such, so they can fill in the right ovals for you.
Posted By: Diggerman

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by James
What if I see fit to yell "fire!" in a crowded theatre? Or slander somebody?

The First Amendment is not a guarantee of freedom of however you want to worship, no matter how dangerous it is to others.

The amendments to the Constitution aren't absolutes. What about the churches that want to ingest peyote? Jim Jones's church?


Jim

Really, did you actually go to law school? A crowded theater is private property and the owner can restrict your speech any which way he wants. The First amendment Limits the GOVERNMENTS ability to control your speech. Wouldn't it be great if lawyers were actually required to study the Constitution prior to receiving their shingle.
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Gary Benson
Would anyone here seriously fill in the oval beside Joe Biden's name on a ballot? No, nobody would admit it.


Dipstick Jimmy (James) has posted a few times that he will "Vote for any Democrat with a pulse" before he'd vote for Trump.
Posted By: Kevin Stake

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 12:46 PM

Very well said Mr. June. He who has never sinned cast the first stone.
Posted By: beeman

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 01:50 PM

This announcement by Trump to open up churches was just like most of his other announcements nothing more than a distraction to get the press off his back for something he said or did that made him look bad. I noticed he did not stay around to answer any questions at the press meeting.

The other day he was giving the governors the power to do as they pleased (he didn’t want the responsibility) now he is telling the governors what to do. You can’t have it both ways.
Posted By: pcr2

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 02:28 PM

mornin Hillary. cry
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by beeman
This announcement by Trump to open up churches was just like most of his other announcements nothing more than a distraction to get the press off his back for something he said or did that made him look bad. I noticed he did not stay around to answer any questions at the press meeting.

The other day he was giving the governors the power to do as they pleased (he didn’t want the responsibility) now he is telling the governors what to do. You can’t have it both ways.



Would you like to speak to the manager Karen?
Posted By: Grandpa Trapper

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Vincenator
SO you think dumpy trumpy cares about any church or it parishioners ? The man is just such a moral pillar of hypocrisy and you belive him?He did say he could grab them by the "kitty" He is just pandering for votes and you are dumb enough to follow him like a bunch of lemmings off a cliff. .I guess i'm wrong and he is such a great christian. Karma is going to be a .itch, when his maker comes a calling for him there will be a express ride to the underworld and his spot will be warming up for him.And NO it wont be a cold day in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).Wake up and smell the crap...Cant fix stupid frown


TDS?
Posted By: Dirt

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 03:19 PM

Where was Trump the last 2 months when your rights were being violated? If I remember right he put out guidelines for shutting down?
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dirt
Where was Trump the last 2 months when your rights were being violated? If I remember right he put put guidelines for shutting down?

Yup. He should have supported keeping churches open from the beginning, but better late than never. I've at least gotta give him credit for making a good decision now, I hope he pushes hard to follow through with it.
Posted By: Art S

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 03:38 PM

Trump didn't shut anything down , Governors did , and we let them .


[Linked Image]
Posted By: trapdog1

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by beeman
This announcement by Trump to open up churches was just like most of his other announcements nothing more than a distraction to get the press off his back for something he said or did that made him look bad. I noticed he did not stay around to answer any questions at the press meeting.

The other day he was giving the governors the power to do as they pleased (he didn’t want the responsibility) now he is telling the governors what to do. You can’t have it both ways.



He's pretty much shown time and again he dosen't worry much what the press thinks.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 03:41 PM

On March 15th the CDC recommended that States limit groups to les than 50 for 8 weeks. They also listed essential services and churches were not on the list.
Posted By: J Staton

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Art S
Trump didn't shut anything down , Governors did , and we let them .


[Linked Image]

X2
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 03:50 PM

Trump didn't shut churches down, of course. Governors did, and people for the.most part, including pastors, just shrugged their shoulders and went along with it. But Trump also didn't make a push again against it to keep them open, and he should have. He should have had the CDC declare churches essential and had the DOJ go after any government turd that tried to restrict that right from the beginning. .But, he is now at least, and that's good to see.
Posted By: KeithC

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 04:08 PM

I believe that churches should have been allowed to stay open. I don't think it was legal for the government to close them.

I also believe that the pastors should have decided to close them

The whole debate reminds me of the temptation of Christ by the devil. In the Book of Matthew:

"5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

I think failing to protect the members of your congregation from Covid-19 is tempting the Lord thy God.

I similarly think that it is not a sign of weakness or submission for the strong to protect the weak by doing what they can to prevent the spread of Covid-19. Choosing to wear a mask and maintaining social distancing does not mean you are a weak willed follower. It mainly means that you have a heart and care about protecting the weaker members of society, such as the elderly, the sick and the infants.

I believe the Christian God would want you to do what you can to protect others. He can see, hear and know you wherever you are.

Keith
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 04:46 PM

I can't disagree with any of that Kieth. Well put. My problem is when the government.mandates that you cannot go to church. Then, at least to me, it's time for some civil disobedience, specifically to show the governors that we won't be told not to go church, for any reason what so ever. There's a big difference between choosing not to do something, and being forced not to do it by the strong hand of government. I don't think it's ever a good idea to let government officials think they can tell people not to go to church. It sends the wrong message, and just rubs me the wrong way.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 05:16 PM

I beleive that most government bans are on gathering sizes, not necessarily religious gatherings?
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/23/20 05:22 PM

At least here, there is both. No more that 10 people (still), and, up until a couple weeks ago, no church services. Now there's church allowed, but with all kinds of rules, including rules that forbid what some churches believe to be holy sacraments.
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by warrior
Originally Posted by James
Thank you, loosegoose. Good post, though I think Trump's using the JD to fight for churches may itself be a violation of the First Amendment. I expect the Supreme Court might just toss this one to the states.

Of course, the courts won't have the matter settled until after the election. Canny politics, actually. Cynical, though.

Jim


Really, a classic bottom feeder ruse. Claiming to not know case law and precedent. Precedent has repeatedly held the state to the same standards as congress in regards to constitutional law.

But of course were the states allowing voluntary school prayer you would argue the complete opposite, when 1A clearly says shall not establish or prohibit.

You can't have it both ways, Karen.


A classic half-wit response. Of course the Court has held that the First Amendment applies to the states. But that's not the issue I was addressing. When there's a pandemic, certain civil rights (e.g., freedom of assembly) may be curtailed.

The issue covered by this thread is whether the president has the authority to over-rule what the governors have done. Only the courts can settle that issue. The issue is one of states' rights. Since the pandemic has hit different states differently, I think it should be settled state by state.

Please keep up.

Jim
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by James
When there's a pandemic, certain civil rights (e.g., freedom of assembly) may be curtailed.


that may apply to INFECTED people, but I do not believe (show me if I'm wrong) it has EVER applied to the population at large.

prove me wrong, James.
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by Diggerman
Originally Posted by James
What if I see fit to yell "fire!" in a crowded theatre? Or slander somebody?

The First Amendment is not a guarantee of freedom of however you want to worship, no matter how dangerous it is to others.

The amendments to the Constitution aren't absolutes. What about the churches that want to ingest peyote? Jim Jones's church?


Jim

Really, did you actually go to law school? A crowded theater is private property and the owner can restrict your speech any which way he wants. The First amendment Limits the GOVERNMENTS ability to control your speech. Wouldn't it be great if lawyers were actually required to study the Constitution prior to receiving their shingle.


Did you learn to read beyond the third-grade level?

Sure, a property owner can throw you out. Those facts weren't part of my hypothetical.

However, to address your concern, do you suppose you have the right to yell "Fire!" in a public building?

The First Amendment says nothing about government's ability to limit the right to free speech or assembly, yet the courts have developed exceptions to those rights, in cases of insurrection, inciting a mob to violence, or PANDEMIC you may not get your full panoply of civil rights.

If there is a large-scale revolt, and you're captured as a rebel, don't expect to get full due process. You won't get it, and the courts won't try to intervene.

I went to law school and practiced law for 33 years. What are your credentials?

Jim
Posted By: James

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by white marlin
Originally Posted by James
When there's a pandemic, certain civil rights (e.g., freedom of assembly) may be curtailed.


that may apply to INFECTED people, but I do not believe (show me if I'm wrong) it has EVER applied to the population at large.

prove me wrong, James.


I couldn't give you an answer without extensive legal research, but I suspect you're wrong.

The government has the right to forcibly quarantine infected people, I think, and I predict they also have the right to limit assembly, in order to prevent spread of the disease.

Jim
Posted By: bowhunter27295

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by James
Every state is different. The virus has impacted states differently. The impact is not uniform across the country.

That being the case, why shouldn't the question of whether to open churches and other places with crowds be a state issue?

What happened to states' rights, you Southerners?

Jim


State's rights are important to republican governors of the south. Not so much with democrat governors of the south. Check that one and get back to us.

Republican examples Georgia and Florida.

Democrat examples Virginia and North Carolina.

I won't even go into the discussion about democrat yankee governors. GOOD GRIEF!!!
Posted By: RM trapper

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 02:46 AM

On another note I enjoyed a great service today at our church with 100 other like minded people
Posted By: Rat Masterson

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 02:55 AM

Restricting movement is allowed by the State if a person "may" have the virus. Talk about a gray area, however due process requires that the imposition of a quarantine or an isolation order not be unreasonable, arbitrary or oppressive. Minnesota is running on all three. Not a lawyer but I stayed at a Holiday Inn.
Posted By: pcr2

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by RM trapper
On another note I enjoyed a great service today at our church with 100 other like minded people

MAGA
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 06:01 AM

So if the need (or fear) is great enough the Bill of Rights just goes out the window?

So FDR and the government were correct in relocating and confining Japanese Nisei and German Americans during arguably one of the greatest crises in our country's history?

If that's the case then anybody with two brain cells to rub together would just manufacture a crisis (or exploit an existing one) to sidestep that pesky Constitution. Hmmm...

Either people have inherent rights or they don't...

Which is it councilor?

BTW, the whole "rights aren't absolute/can't yell fire in a crowded theater" argument is weak, tired, and used to support every asinine statist argument ever... We didn't outlaw speaking in public over those incidents. We just made it clear that you are responsible for the consequences of your actions. It's the exact same argument I have heard time and again from gun control advocates... They're all for curtailing rights until I suggest that we limit speech to a certain decibel level or limit their capacity to no more than 10 spoken words per minute ( 7 in New York ) or that they must register their speech with the local constabulary before giving it and can only give 1 speech per month... And only if their local LEO deems it necessary.

But I digress...

Mike
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 06:16 AM

I also find it very ironic that a supporter of the party of abortion-on-demand somehow finds fault with my stance of "my body, my choice" even though my actions may actually effect the health and well being of another human(s)...

You can't make this stuff up.

Mike
Posted By: Pawnee

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
I also find it very ironic that a supporter of the party of abortion-on-demand somehow finds fault with my stance of "my body, my choice" even though my actions may actually effect the health and well being of another human(s)...

You can't make this stuff up.

Mike


Exactly!! Great example. I would also add that I find it fascinating that separation of Church and State only goes one way. They tell us what we can and can’t do, but they have a conniption fit if we even hint at involving something biblical or religious to government.
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 10:32 AM

Roosevelt authorized Executive Order 9066, issued on February 19, 1942, which allowed regional military commanders to designate "military areas" from which "any or all persons may be excluded."[16] Although the executive order did not mention Japanese Americans, this authority was used to declare that all people of Japanese ancestry were required to leave Alaska[17] and the military exclusion zones from all of California and parts of Oregon, Washington, and Arizona, except for those in government camps.[18] Internment was not limited to those of Japanese ancestry, but included a relatively smaller number—though still totalling well over ten thousand—of people of German and Italian ancestry and Germans deported from Latin America to the U.S.[19]:124 [20] Approximately 5,000 Japanese Americans relocated outside the exclusion zone before March 1942,[21] while some 5,500 community leaders had been arrested immediately after the Pearl Harbor attack and thus were already in custody.[22]
The United States Census Bureau assisted the internment efforts by providing specific individual census data on Japanese Americans. The Bureau denied its role for decades despite scholarly evidence to the contrary,[23] and its role became more widely acknowledged by 2007.[24][25] In 1944, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the removal by ruling against Fred Korematsu's appeal for violating an exclusion order.[26] The Court limited its decision to the validity of the exclusion orders,


James, I guess you would have no issue with this.

perhaps a Round Two is in order, for certain communities.
Posted By: white marlin

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
So if the need (or fear) is great enough the Bill of Rights just goes out the window?

So FDR and the government were correct in relocating and confining Japanese Nisei and German Americans during arguably one of the greatest crises in our country's history?

If that's the case then anybody with two brain cells to rub together would just manufacture a crisis (or exploit an existing one) to sidestep that pesky Constitution. Hmmm...

Either people have inherent rights or they don't...

Which is it councilor?

BTW, the whole "rights aren't absolute/can't yell fire in a crowded theater" argument is weak, tired, and used to support every asinine statist argument ever... We didn't outlaw speaking in public over those incidents. We just made it clear that you are responsible for the consequences of your actions. It's the exact same argument I have heard time and again from gun control advocates... They're all for curtailing rights until I suggest that we limit speech to a certain decibel level or limit their capacity to no more than 10 spoken words per minute ( 7 in New York ) or that they must register their speech with the local constabulary before giving it and can only give 1 speech per month... And only if their local LEO deems it necessary.

But I digress...

Mike


BRILLIANT!

and I would LOVE to hear James' rebuttal. but, I won't hold my breath...he will either ignore or sidestep this logical argument.

(btw...we should ban lawyers from serving in any public office)
Posted By: Mark June

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by KeithC
I believe that churches should have been allowed to stay open. I don't think it was legal for the government to close them.

I also believe that the pastors should have decided to close them

The whole debate reminds me of the temptation of Christ by the devil. In the Book of Matthew:

"5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

I think failing to protect the members of your congregation from Covid-19 is tempting the Lord thy God.

I similarly think that it is not a sign of weakness or submission for the strong to protect the weak by doing what they can to prevent the spread of Covid-19. Choosing to wear a mask and maintaining social distancing does not mean you are a weak willed follower. It mainly means that you have a heart and care about protecting the weaker members of society, such as the elderly, the sick and the infants.

I believe the Christian God would want you to do what you can to protect others. He can see, hear and know you wherever you are.

Keith


Thoughtful post KeithC. It's always hard to make righteous decisions (I think that's what you're describing) because we are not God, but we are called to be perfect as the Father in Heaven is perfect, so just as we should try our best to be salt and light for the glory of God.

Thanks for the post.
Blessings,
Mark
Posted By: LLtrapper

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by James
What if I see fit to yell "fire!" in a crowded theatre? Or slander somebody?

The First Amendment is not a guarantee of freedom of however you want to worship, no matter how dangerous it is to others.

The amendments to the Constitution aren't absolutes. What about the churches that want to ingest peyote? Jim Jones's church?


Jim


Church has been open hear for three weeks. Incubation of covid 19 is a week or two. Cases here are going down like a rock. As for the danger to a person of faith, we know our risks and can decide for ourselves. We do not need politicians, judges or lawyers deciding how our rights that are not man given are to be handed out.

As for endangering others, if you do not want or wish to go to church, stay home. How are you going to get infected if you are at home? LLL
Posted By: Mark June

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by LLtrapper
Originally Posted by James
What if I see fit to yell "fire!" in a crowded theatre? Or slander somebody?

The First Amendment is not a guarantee of freedom of however you want to worship, no matter how dangerous it is to others.

The amendments to the Constitution aren't absolutes. What about the churches that want to ingest peyote? Jim Jones's church?


Jim


Church has been open hear for three weeks. Incubation of covid 19 is a week or two. Cases here are going down like a rock. As for the danger to a person of faith, we know our risks and can decide for ourselves. We do not need politicians, judges or lawyers deciding how our rights that are not man given are to be handed out.

As for endangering others, if you do not want or wish to go to church, stay home. How are you going to get infected if you are at home? LLL


Our forefathers believed, conceived, prayed, and wrote up articles of a nation under God's providence. Many were deists but they did believe in God, the Father, Son, and Spirit.
Now, with our non-Christian nation, deemed by most historical theologians as having had the final nail pounded into Christianity during the 1960's, we as a nation turn to humankind for providence and grace.

frown
Posted By: bblwi

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 02:21 PM

Now religion has become very political, either supposedly for or against. We now have government either closing churches or stating that in the opinion of the government religion is an essential service to the whole nation. So much for separation of church and state. We best be careful if we determine that church is essential then the government will become involved in administrating and regulation, who knows they may even decide to tax them.

Bryce
Posted By: LLtrapper

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by bblwi
Now religion has become very political, either supposedly for or against. We now have government either closing churches or stating that in the opinion of the government religion is an essential service to the whole nation. So much for separation of church and state. We best be careful if we determine that church is essential then the government will become involved in administrating and regulation, who knows they may even decide to tax them.

Bryce

The POTUS simply stated that the first amendment is essential. A reminder to those who think differently I guess. I don't see that as political. In fact it should be apolitical. LLL
Posted By: Mark June

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by bblwi
Now religion has become very political, either supposedly for or against. We now have government either closing churches or stating that in the opinion of the government religion is an essential service to the whole nation. So much for separation of church and state. We best be careful if we determine that church is essential then the government will become involved in administrating and regulation, who knows they may even decide to tax them.

Bryce


And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him (Mark 12:17).

IMO, the American church is reigned in because it quivers to keep it's tax exempt status. Pay taxes and be done with this yoke!
Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's.
Posted By: Sprung&Rusty

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/25/20 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by charles
He is not a leader, he is a politician. Everything he does is to forward his mission and image. This he does very well.


He's not a politician. He's a business man.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/26/20 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by bblwi
Now religion has become very political, either supposedly for or against. We now have government either closing churches or stating that in the opinion of the government religion is an essential service to the whole nation. So much for separation of church and state. We best be careful if we determine that church is essential then the government will become involved in administrating and regulation, who knows they may even decide to tax them.

Bryce


I've heard a lot of folks talk about taxing churches... Certain factions lick their chops at getting their hands on the coffers of various religious organizations... But it rarely seems to go anywhere.

And in my opinion there is one primary reason it quickly fades...

As soon as you levy taxes you better be prepared to give the taxed a voice/representation in the legislature. That thought terrifies anyone who sees the state as God.

Mike
Posted By: J Staton

Re: POTUS Churchs - 05/26/20 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
Originally Posted by bblwi
Now religion has become very political, either supposedly for or against. We now have government either closing churches or stating that in the opinion of the government religion is an essential service to the whole nation. So much for separation of church and state. We best be careful if we determine that church is essential then the government will become involved in administrating and regulation, who knows they may even decide to tax them.

Bryce


I've heard a lot of folks talk about taxing churches... Certain factions lick their chops at getting their hands on the coffers of various religious organizations... But it rarely seems to go anywhere.

And in my opinion there is one primary reason it quickly fades...

As soon as you levy taxes you better be prepared to give the taxed a voice/representation in the legislature. That thought terrifies anyone who sees the state as God.

Mike

Good point Mike.
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