30-30 question

So a friend of ours text yesterday and said he's been wanting to give The Boy a gun since he is really into hunting. He said he decided gifting him his Savage 340. He had the stock refinished and an older but new in box Leupold scope on it. He said has two mags for it and enough ammo to keep him shooting for the foreseeable future. It needs a sling but has the mounds attached. He is a small guy so his guns have shorter stocks or are youth models. Anyhow my question is since my son (The Boy) is only 9 and small is there a subsonic round or a lighter recoil round you would recommend? He has just started shooting my old youth 243 and it is about all he can handle as far as recoil I dont want him to get a flinch if I can help it. Thanks for looking.



^^ The Boy shooting the 243

Do you reload?
Try some "cowboy" from ultramax or what ever that brand is

I have both (243 & 30-30), in my opinion the 30-30 recoil less. It can depend on the platform, how light it is or is not, etc.
Let him shoot both and determine his comfort zone, so to speak.
If you load the 30-30 down, you'll want to keep your hunting distances a bit shorter or closer.

I do not reload. But my buddy said the 30-30 is pretty light but we were shooting 100gr core-lokt in the 243. I haven't ever shot a 30-30 myself mom always shot one so can't imagine they are too awful rough. Guess we will see what he likes better. Shots from the stands he will sit should all be under 150 yard and most inside 75.

Should be some reduced recoil loads from the major mfg. Sorry can’t give you a name, mid south shooters supply. , or Natchez probably have some offerings.
If you know someone that is a safe and meticulous reloader their are reduced power load data in the speer manuals . Good luck and good for you considering the flinch factor .

I would suggest putting shooting muffs on over the plugs
I seem to believe the sound hurts young ears more than recoil hurts the shoulder
JMO

I hate tracking marginally hit critters. Lol

Since you don't reload, use factory 150 gr. ammo rather than 170 gr., and maybe consider a slip on recoil pad and ear protection until he figures out it isn't going to hrt him.

Looking at the recoil numbers, they are going to be very close to the same. I am betting the 30-30 will feel less as it is a slower round. Let him try both and see what he has to say. I also think that adding muffs along with plugs is great idea.

Might try muffs too thanks

I have reloaded reduced loads for kids for deer hunting with great success. They will kill deer just fine if put in the right place at a reasonable distance for the load, marginally hit critters has nothing to do with the load. Aim small, miss small. Sierra 125 sp in .30 cal. is a great bullet for kids loads for deer. Hodgdon powder has reduced loads on their site. This is a good excuse to get into reloading and you won't be at the mercy of panic buying if you use some fore thought.

I think ether one would be fine, like everyone else said. But, if he uses a.243, he can use it for coyotes to, in the off season for deer.

Oh yeah didnt mean the marginal hits would be from lighter loads but from heavier ones causing the flinch action. Good info not sure I'm ready to get another hobby/obsession going just yet but I will keep it in mind.

My suggestion is to get him up off his butt and standing up so he can lean into the rifle and when he does shoot the recoil will just rock him backwards and the effects of the recoil will be marginal at best .

What I'm suggesting is similar to a trap shooters stance so hang onto the rifle firmly but relax from the chest down so the recoil pushes back the upper body it's way more enjoyable.

Quality ear muffs are important to foam roll up ear plugs don't always fit the best a and in some cases the noise can adversely effect accurate and enjoyable shooting experiences for a young shooter.

This method will allow the use of regular loads for what ever caliber you choose , shooting sticks can be used give it a try before you knock it you'll be surprised how well it works .
Allan

When I was in basic training in Ft Dix there was a fella with a bad flinch at the rifle range. When we were done with basics and leaving on the bus, I remember looking out the window and there was Pvt Lance, standing in formation with his THIRD basic training unit, all because of a flinch he couldn't get rid of.

Did a search for reduced recoil amunition
Midway carries Remington managed recoil 135gr 30-30 Winchester currently out of stock but back order ok.
Sure glad I’m not at the mercy of supply and demand. Sorry I cannot agree that reloading is a hobby, it used to be
before the world went mad. Now I consider it an essential. I checked three sights and there were more products that were out of stock than in. Wow panic buying, guess everyone is stocking up for granddaddy’s old thuty-thuty.

Is a .223 not a legal means of take?

Give him a dip of snuff... a lone star longneck...and a green and yellow box of 170 grain

Thanks guys we will put the muffs on and get him standing next time out.

That's what I want to avoid Gary fixing a flinch can be next to impossible if it takes hold.

Cmcf you are right about the supply side I may have to bite the bullet and get into reloading.

A 223 is legal but I own 2 youth 243's and The Boy is getting the 30-30 given to him today so not looking to buy another caliber right now.

I think Savell has the best answer not the best solution for a 9 Y/O but a great response for sure

cowboy loads , I make cast reloads that are like a 22 but I reload

although that 30-30 savage 340 you can really make gains with because it can use a spitzer bullet no tube so learning to reload might keep him in ammo and make him a real master with that gun.

having an action and bolt lugs that can take 55Kpsi as it was chambered in other cartridges in that pressure range the 340 not that I advocate going or cartridge spec but the action is solid way beyond what factory 30-30 can produce . just the change to a spitzer bullet can make 30-30 really excel , the round nose bullets have much more air drag , the pointed spitzer bullets retain more velocity and energy at distance.

if you keep to Leverevoluion powder for normal book pressures you can get 2500fps with a 150gr spitzer puts that little rifle on the heals of a 308win

I looked at a bunch of 340 and 325 savage rifles , kicked myself a little for not buying one of those handy little rifles a few times when I saw one but wasn't fast enough to get it before it was sold.

in end I could buy a new 308 for what those in good shape now sell for and I did and do not regret it , but the savage 340 was a prized possession of many hunter.

if he has a problem holding the weight make him a set of shooting sticks , then he can be stable and stand and lean into it. very easy to make with a table saw rip some 1x4 into 3/4 by 3/4 strips , use a bolt and wing nut , put some padding on the V where the gun rests , some 3 inch screws in the bottom cut off with a grinder it will stick in the grass nice and make a steady enough rest for the rifle.

or stand at the bench sort of half laying over it , his head should be farther forward sort of half laying on the table with a rest up front , roll up one or two of those towels tight and put a couple wraps of duct tape around

you may well need to build up the cheek so that with a good cheek weld he can see clear through the glass, that half chin touching , the gun moves more and smacks you foam sleeping pad and horse wrap or hornady makes a pad with some cartridge loops https://www.opticsplanet.com/hornady-gun-cheek-piece.html
it will get you about 1/2 inch of rise he may need more than that then put foam sleeping pad and horse wrap under it

to make sure he isn't developing a flinch you load the gun place the safety on and hand it to him he shoots , mix it up randomly put a spent case back in and watch him if flinches you need more ball dummy till he doesn't.

foam and muffs can help also , when you do this you should work out that if you put your hand on his shoulder he freezes finger off trigger incase he can't here your instruction then you have a safety protocol in place and you can pull the muffs and talk to him. even if he can hear still that is always a good plane hand on shoulder is a full stop finger off trigger maintain a safe direction.

more time on the 22lr then a few rounds on the 30-30 stop before he starts to flinch.

do you have a 22lr in a similar configuration ?

you can always do more 22 and wait till he grows a bit if the recoil is too much , keep his experience positive

I have shot 170gr green and yellow box rem in my 30-30 and don't think they have much recoil , less than a 20ga shotgun , my son's first non 22 when he was 10 and we had just gotten mentored hunting in WI.

Remington makes a 125 grain reduced recoil load for the 30-30

they do and that would be a good choice it is one of the very few you can even back order right now https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001788974?pid=330519

ammunition in the USA is a little hard to find right now most stores have been out of 30-30 ammo since march these stupid riots have emptied stores of nearly everything.

Yeah he loves to shoot the 22lr and is a crack shot with his 410 with 3 inch shells and he's been practicing gun safety since he was four with first nerf then bb guns and now 410 and 22s so I am not worried on the safety aspect at all. He is safer than most adults I hunt/shoot with. I like the idea of the padding on the stock for cheek weld especially with the 243 as the over under scope mounts lift his small head up. I was thinking of what to use but the pad with cartridge loops should work great thanks Green County Pete.

My goal is to keep him enjoying shooting/hunting and not fighting a flinch down the road.

My little guy just turned 8 and he is small. I wouldn't dream of letting him shoot a 30 for a few more years. We'll stick to the 223 for a bit longer. Had to take a young lady to the ER for stitches the first morning of rifle season years ago from a Marlin 30-30. Her first deer and a horrible experience. She was in her 20's but small frame. One trick that I did for my wife is to add weight to the front of her 270 WSM. Those old bulky Harris bipods are heavy and totally useless out of her tower blind but it tames the muzzle rise for her as she is really small as well. She is spoiled and parks about 35 yards from her blind so I'm not concerned about how heavy it is. If there's much doubt on your end, play it safe and leave the gun in your safe for a few more years.

you want some cheek squish when shooting it means your face is planted

eye relief from a scope is important also , ill fitting is more damaging than recoil if all the fit is right. you ride the recoil , you get smacked by ill fit.

You can get reduced recoil ammo for the 30-30, I let my son use that for a year before standard rounds.

I guess I'm missing something but why not a .308. light on recoil with a lot of factory ammo and a much wider range of available bullets and factory ammo.

Because it’s a gifted gun from a special friend.

Improving his form will help with recoil.
His right elbow should be up , bout to the bottom of his ear
So the elbow is in line with both shoulders
This stretches out those muscles so they are not bunched up.
How competitive shooters are taught.

We will work on form.

When my daughter was first started in shooting we started with the Remington controlled recoil 30/30 and the Hornady reduced recoil 243, right now she stands 5’1 and weights 98 pounds at 26 yo so you can imagine what she was at 12yo, sometimes I was afraid she would blow away in a strong wind back then but she handled the shooting just fine it was way more difficult to find a gun that fit her then anything else she was so tiny at the time

Sims slip on recoil pad if he could tolerate the longer length of pull due to the slip on pad.

Try it out first yourself.

I killed a lot of stuff with my savage 340 30-30. My dad gave it to me when I was 11. It still kicks like a mule. 243 is a fine cartridge. will kill anything a 30 30 will. kicks less too. a lot less

A scope on a lever gun ? What in the Wide World Of Sports is going on ! Get that youngster on the iron sights....and like noted earlier, stand up offhand. That’s how yah learn to shoot. His shoulder must be sore ,from bench shooting.....

340 is a bolt action

All this 30-30 talk got me confused....thanks for setting me straight Danny.

haven't been made in a while. relatively cheap. very serviceable rifles

I have a Winchester mod 94 with is a pretty light rifle. I had to put a slip on pad onto it because of the length of pull or lack thereof. With that thing on there it is wider shooting than my light 223 AR I am sure he will love it.

We had a kid like that. Would've washed him out but he was a foreign national son of an Etheopian big wig.
Worst flinch I ever saw, whole body jerked and eyes slammed shut flinch.

And the sound preceeds the recoil And contributes to the tick/ flinch

We'll see how he does on paper and let him decide if he wants to shoot the 30-30 or the 243.



We got to our friends house he had the 30-30 ready but also had a titan .25 cal he gave me and 3 gallon bags of asst. 12 gauge shells. How do I get so lucky to have a friend like that?

here is a video showing the 340.

for those who may not have seen them

Remington used to make a reduced recoil load, might look into that

Found some!!! Little gas station off the beaten path.




12.99 a box.

You might get that gun fitted to him yet!

Hope so. The cheek pad is ordered too.

12.99 a box , you found a time warp , go back and see what else you can buy them out of before someone else figures it out and they get sucked into the year 2020

Oh so many boxes for 12.99 270 308 40. Even had 323 rounds of 22 for 12.99

buy buy buy buy

sounds like someone got the price gun stuck on 12.99

almost any Remington , hornady , win , federal , even PPU soft point hunting round under 15.99 for 20 is a deal.

my price to make 308 is 11.60 a box without any of my labor or tools , I reuse the brass several times and that brings it closer to 10 dollars for 20 rounds

The didnt have anything else I needed or I would have bought more. Gotta leave some for the next guy sometimes.