Grizz country sidearms

I have found some articles on reloading and different opinions on sidearms in grizzly country. Anybody have any good reads or articles to check out. Thanks Ed

On YouTube there are some good videos on this topic. Chukes outdoor adventures does a pretty good job going through the topic. Not sure on articles on this topic but watching videos it definitely goes to all sides.

Ruark. “Use enough gun”

To me- use enough gun is applicable sooo many times LOL.

There are lots of options anymore. Everyone wants a little .380 they can carry wearing skinny jeans but they are making some well crafted big bore handguns that wont break the bank IMO anyway

I was planning on getting a gun for possible bear encounters but have no Western tags this year so I'll procrastinate on getting it. Probably going to go with a 10 mm Glock or a Ruger super red hawk in 454 casul, leaning heavy towards the Glock for ease of carry.

It's a topic that's been discussed at length before, but I'll summarize my opinion: Carrry the biggest firepower that you can effectively draw and shoot well. A big gun that can't hit anything doesn't do any good.

Ammo land collected data and here it is

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...e-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz6QqGjK88e


service size and caliber handguns 9, 40 , 45 seem relatively effective and big hand cannons are harder to shoot under stress , low capacity and harder to reload.

44 was used the most as it is likely carried the most for bear

shot placement is more important than what you carry.

I’ve heard it discussed a few times on the radio program Gun Talk. 10mm seems to be popular

Having no shortage of opinions, I'll provide one here The 10mm strikes me as a good option given it's decent firepower, magazine capacity, and relative ease of carry. Get too big a hogleg and you may decide it's in the way while breaking down your elk and set it aside, just when you need it most.

12 gauge shotgun with loaded with buckshot and slugs.

That's what I carried on the Alaska Peninsula for 5 summers.

I'd suggest the Remington 870 Wingmaster with a short barrel.

w

The old Wingmasters are a nice gun.Almost as nice as my old Winchester model 12.

Yeah upstart,

But what about the vaunted Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge ?

What say you about that ?

w

JMO, but I would second the shotgun if you know trouble is coming but having a long arm at the ready at all times can be troublesome unless you assign one person to be on watch at all times. As for sidearms let me throw in one cartridge not mentioned, the 45 super. Most 45acp pistols can be upgraded to handle the Super. Also like others have said a sidearm is no good if you can't deliver accurate rapid fire with it. Big hand cannons will take you out of the fight if the recoil can't be controlled.

I'd say that's the best pump gun JMB ever designed.

For western hunts, I either carry my Smith 329 in .44, or my Glock 20 in 10mm. I’m comfortable and extremely proficient with either. Different guns for different situations. Gotta find what’s right for you. I will say that both my Glock and Smith are modified to tritium night sights. Gotta be able to see what your shooting at in all conditions.

Walleyed: I have two of the Ithaca 37 12 gauges,, and also gave my son a model 37 20 ga. youth model(shorter stock) with both bird and slug barrels that he has now passed down to his son.

No Grizzes here but when trout fishing in the Adirondacks in Black Bear territory,,I carry my Ruger GP100 357 magnum and my son carries his 45 auto.

Here in MT. I carry bear spray, a lot lighter than a handgun and a lot more effective when one is coming at you. Don't forget the mountain money, ie TP.

I carry a Glock 40 10mm with Underwood ammo in a Kenai chest holster for my Alaska fishing trips. I shoot it very well and the Underwood ammo is stout. Fortunately the three close encounters I have had were not surprises and I was able to put some distance between myself and the bear(s).

Isn't that the truth! - its where you hit it!

There was a story in the news last week about a guy in SW MT that got chewed up by a griz even while using bear spray. He saw the bear coming from 80 yards so would have had plenty of time to ventilate the bear

I carry .44 caliber 265gr bear spray, haha!

it seems like you should carry bear spray , an empty canister seems to be reasonable evidence you tried not to shoot it .

Sounds like someone thinks ahead.

I have carried my Blackhawk 44 for a long time but I picked up a glock 20 in 10mm with shoulder rig and for trapping its been way easier to have it on the ready. When the family and I go into the mountains I still carry the 44 and the wife has my 10mm. We have one of the largest population of grizz in the lower 48 so it's not if you see them it's when. I shoot both quite a bit so I am comfortable with them. If you can't hit what you want they are useless. I also carry my M1 Garand when rifle hunting or on my shoulder when riding the sled.

I love my 37, and you can slam fire it if you want to! However ,no experience, but I believe I'd take my Ruger 1911 10mm
Dennis

If I'm hunting I carry a Ruger Bisly in 45 colt with 280 gr WFN cast bullets or I my FA 454 with the same bullet.

I prefer to carry an auto when I'm fishing and camping. I carry a 1911 in 45 acp. Like warrior said a 45 super or 460 Roland would be better IMO. My 1911 with soon be converted to the 460

Look at the YouTube videos of glocks blowing up when shooting bear load 10mm. Part of the case isn't even in the barrel when it goes off. I use a Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 Magnum with 340 grain Buffalo Bore.

454.

any dude wearing skinny jeans probably has a rainbow sticker on the back of his prius….

I think too much emphasis gets put on having a special extra hot load for bear.

these tend to be expensive and it is unlikely they get practiced with as much as they should.


the same point gets made about people who buy "precious" self defense ammo if it is very expensive they tend not to run much of it in the gun maybe shoot a magazine then declare it works well.

some have no idea where it hits , they may have purchased it years ago but it is too precious to use especially in regular practice so they know where their target ammo hits but the ammo they need to know where it hits may be considerably different

if 9mm , 40S&W, 10mm , 45acp , 38spl , 44mag ,41 mag have all successfully been used with good shot placement , a good but not too precious self defense load that you can practice with makes more sense than some very over priced over pressure bear round.


looking at the load data 10mm only makes a gain of about 200 fps and gets an additional inch of barrel in the test data whichever you shoot better and can practice with more is likely the better choice.

I don't carry a gun and my yard is in grizzly and black bear country. Guns are heavy and annoying and so far, never needed.

As already stated, if you can’t hit with it, it’s worthless. Get something with plenty of capacity. Having a small lightweight gun is nice but they don’t typically score well in high stress situations. Something that has a large capacity magazine will do far better. I prefer a 357 mag if odds are low but if the odds are high (elk country) I’ll opt for my 9mm. 18 rounds to get it done. There’s not a bear on this planet that will take that and walk away. I’m sure others will state otherwise but opinions will abound regardless the situation.

I skinned a large black bear a guy shot with a rifle and than a 44 mag to finish it off. The 44 mag bullet was stuck to the skull. There was just enough meat between the hide and skull the bullet was just under the hide. It did not crack the skull, but was stuck on pretty good. It knocked the bear down, but I think he killed it when he gutted it. I think it just knocked him out. I have little faith in a hand gun when it comes to bears. It may be better than nothing, but to me that's about it. The noise it makes I would guess, has as much affect as the bullet. I would take a shotgun over a handgun any day. I never understood why someone would choose the gun with the least knock down to save their life. With that said I grew up in MT backpacking in, sleeping on the ground elk hunting and live four years in AK and I agree with Dirt.

I think Timothy Treadwell had the same thoughts...

Well- he isnt wrong folks

Yeah, I usually don't camp on bear trails. Good chance one will walk through your tent. Only did this a few times when I was bear hunting.

No griz here,just blacks.
I spend way more time in the bush without a gun than with one.
Most of the time a gun is just excess cargo,thats not needed.

I have a 6" 629 Smith and a model 20 Glock. From what I hear a lot of guides are starting to carry the Glock 10 mm.

The 329 Smith is on my wish list.

i remember being at king salmon in the 1980's, ran into some bear biologist at the local watering hole.i was carring a super blackhawk in .44 mag. he told me to shoot the bear 5 times , but save no.6 for me since i only mad him mad the first 5 times.he also said he never seen a grizzly killed with a handgun, lots shot with them but finnished by a backup rifle.

Id rather be looking AT my gun than looking FOR it.

I love my 37 Home Defender. It will slam fire and run out all 8 rounds super fast...…...If you can hang onto it!

I have a smith 44 mag and I bought ammo called Buffalo shells, They are suppose to be top of the line for bears. I lived in Wyoming for 8 years and hunted in Grizz country. I don't pack it when rifle hunting but I do carry bear spray, Bow hunting I carry both. I did have a run in with a grizz at 25 yards, too far for the bear spray but not the 44 mag. Luckily he left and so did I

Probably the same King Salmon, AK bear biologist
that liked to tell local fishing guides to file the Iron sights
off of their "bear pistols" so they wouldn't hurt so much
when the bear shoved the pistol up their arses !!

That guy was a tool.

Were you at Eddie's Fireplace Inn, or the KingKo,
or the Red Dog Saloon in Naknek ?

w

Was not a grizzly but my 454 Redhawk revolver saved me once back years ago in tight quarters in the Laurel thickets of Virginia when a 350 pound black bear came for me while I was trying to save a hound it had pinned.

Lived in Alaska for about two decades shot several bears. 44 magnum rolls over black bears fine. I've witnessed another person shoot a BROWN BEAR (Coastal Grizzly that is salmon fed) with a 44 and the round ricocheted of his skull. When you hunt Brown bear the perfect shot is a side shot and too shot it through both shoulders or at least one. This drops the bear so you can shot him again if needed. If you only break one shoulder he will hit the ground and start spinning in place. If you break both shoulders he just can't get up. Use a solid or very tough bullet that penetrates. A shotgun ain't going to get it in my opinion. A pistol may work sometimes but for me it just gives you a false sense of security. Had a buddy shoot a Brown bear and did not hit the shoulder it circled back on its own trail and bit him bad as he followed the blood trail his dad shot the bear and saved his life. Brown bears fight back they are no joke. Enough Gun!

Shooting into shoulder bones is a poor shot in my opinion.
A neck shot is good,or just behind the elbow if side or quartering away..

that is thinking a bit like a hunter explaining why you shot a leaving bear might land you in hot water.

if your defending yourself chances are good the bear is coming at you the question is on 2 legs or 4 , given the descriptions of successful bear defense with a handgun , it sounds like often on 2 and the shots were fired relatively close and into the lungs through the ribs

it could also be on 4 and would make a harder shot , head , neck and back if head is down.

if a shotgun , slugs work well on black bears 1oz lead maybe a griz is different but I doubt it , they are not long range tools but 1 oz rifled slugs are 3000fpe in close boring a .72 inch entry and can expand to more , and have good penetration close .

I think there is a saying if you knew you were going into a gun fight you wouldn't go , if you did you would bring backup and rifles.

if you knew you were going to get attacked by a bear you would bring backup and rifles or shotguns with slugs.

but you are there to fish or hike or hunt something other than bear.

bears spray good and hopefully you don't even need that if you do you have it and use it and likely that is enough.

handgun not bad backup to bear spray much easier to carry than a long gun

another saying , your handgun is a tool to fight your way to your rifle well if you happen to have a long gun but it is strapped to your pack or you set it down to cook , setup a tent or some other task.

i was in eddies fireside inn. i'm thinking his name was ron bullok.

I’ve opted for fat and slow. Super Blackhawk bisley in 480 ruger. 412gr hard cast lead at 1150fps. Fairly mild recoil for such a large chunk of lead.

Now days I carry bear spray, Glock 10mm, and a German Shepard. Ive never shot a bear with a handgun, but I squirted 2 grizz with bear spray at close range. The spray definitely bought me time and distance. If you rely on bear spray, bring several canisters. I traded a 44mag for the 10mm because the 44mag was heavy and inconvenient to carry, and hard to get off effective follow on shots. The 10mm is an improvement in those ways. I have also carried a 12ga with Brenneke slugs, and a Win Mod 94 30/30 at times. Now if I can just train the German Shepard to carry and shoot the 10mm, I'll have a lighter load.

Nothing succeeds like excess. When I had my ffl one of my whole sale suppliers ran a special on the S&W X frames. I had already shot a friends 460 EVR and 500 MAG. Sooo at $889 for the performance center 500 mag
I called the supply house and said ya ain’t got it here yet? I haven’t even pointed it at a bear, but that was it’s secondary purpose. I enjoy handguns with serious horsepower, I don’t enjoy pistols that hurt my hands. The 454 falls into the second category. I load 385 Remington corelocts to a little over 1700 FPS. Although I haven’t had to shoot a bear with it I did shoot a 5x5 bull elk. The bullet entered about 9” behind the right ear as he was quartering toward me, pulverized about 7” of his neck vertebrae and stopped under the hide just in front of the left shoulder. Total penetration was about 20”. Needless to say he dropped at the shot. I shot that pistol a lot when I first got it and could routinely vapoize small water bottles @ 50yrds. If I was doing the arrow fling thing for elk up around green river lakes or sunlight basin it would be on me during the day and in my bed roll at night.

Boco respect your opinion, don't know the size of the bears your shooting but know your a man in the woods and what you are doing works.. GP have you shot a Grizzly Bear? I spoke of coastal Alaskan bears. As they are my only experience. I have shot lets say several coastal Alaskan bears. The difference between a Wisconsin black bear and coastal bear is about 700 pounds. Kodiak Island bears can get up to 1500 pounds and Southeast bears can get up to 1100 pounds. Yes I carried a handgun. Most of the gun shops in Alaska have reloaded 44 mag cartridges for sale with solid projectiles. This is for penetration. Lets say an average bear is 800 pounds. A lead projectile is not the answer. If it hits bone it will flatten out. The gentleman who said he uses brenneke slugs I agree with this as far as shotguns the Brenneke has tin added to make it harder which helps it to not flatten out. So If I was using a weapon to kill a coastal Alaskan bear I would use a projectile that would penetrate! I don't tlk about things I have not done this is just my experience and what the people in my area do. Do you understand 1000 pounds.

I have shot bears from other angles than 90 degrees and it worked.

I have been eyeing a Ruger 44 Alaskan that I can pickup new for about $900. I guess it is made for the serious bear loads and I do not have an Alaskan. Yet.

Anybody read about Phil Shoemaker killing a coastal grizzly at under 10 yards with a 9 m/m?
Interesting story from an experienced bear guide. I'm guessing he went back to a heavier gun afterwards.

https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...men-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/