Democrat trappers debate

On another thread, James used the term, democrat trappers, and said there are some here. Others have referred to those also. James has also asked about debating. So I'm hoping this thread will be a debate on being a trapper and supporting the democrat party.

To be a trapper, ones needs the tools to do so. Unfortunately, many states have outlawed those tools, traps, and made any trapping almost impossible. These laws have all been done through voter initiatives which favor the votes from large metropolitan areas and these areas are predominantly democrat.
In the same manner, states have used "cruelty" as a reason to outlaw trapping. Orgs. Like PETA, HSUS, collect money and use it to outlaw the cruelty of trapping. Democrat politicians regularly support these orgs. Few Republicans do.
Trappers use guns. The democrat party is more and more anti gun. Supporting the D party is supporting the loss of your right to own a firearm.
The same animal rights orgs support outlawing fur. Fur is cruel. Several municipalities have outlawed the sale of fur. These cities are all Democrat majority!
So there is a few reasons why being a trapper and supporting the Dem party is akin to cutting your own throat!
James?
Other dem or liberal trappers?

All I can contribute is a giggle...

Lots of good union men on here.

Actually for the record, is there a dem that supports the 2nd? Can’t seem to find anything on the google. Just leads me to all the dems that don’t support the 2nd.

Pretty quiet so far but I'm sure you'll wake some kind of giant in a while, me? I'm registered republican but vote with my mind and heart. Not too many times have I voted democratic because they're so unyielding in everything martentrapper pointed out

Mark Bag itch. I got to go wash my mouth now!

Bag itch

I have yet to hear of any anti-gun democrat politician that supports trapping. I always believed anti-gun = anti-trapping.

Bag itch that’s funny...now I need to go wash my mouth out. Thought he wanted to make a bunch of unnecessary changes to the 2nd?

In defense of James, when I posted video clips of all the leading democrat presidential canidates takes on the Second Amendment, he declared that they did not have a pulse, meaning he would not vote for them over President Trump.

Keith

MT:

You make valid points. We'll see what the Dem's party platform says after the convention; maybe they'll surprise me, and won't come out in favor of gun control. I concede your point, though: Democrat candidates are all-too-often anti-gun.

That's why I don't become a Democrat. I don't give them money, allow their signs in my yard, or knee-jerk vote for them.

I agree with the Dems about some things. Gay and other minority rights. Keeping government from getting into the abortion issue, and leaving a women's bodies to their own sovereignty. Being respectful and neighborly to our allies. And other issues.

I'm an independent who reserves the right to vote Democrat, when they offer the better candidate.

No one's going to stampede me unthinkingly into the ballot cubicle, inciting fear of this and that. The risk of damaging gun control is slight. They aren't going to ban ARs again; there are too many in the hands of citizens. And if they do try to ban them, I'm expecting the Supreme Court to step in.

Cleaning the vermin out of the White House trumps any other consideration this election.

This won't be much of a debate, since so much of it depends on personal outlook and opinion.

Jim

James vote for Trump?! Pssh... I want to hear him say it. Lol James where you at on this?

My brother who traps in the Copper Center area hates that guy, calls him Bagofs--t."

Jim

Lol that’s a good one too!

James will not be voting for Trump.

Haven't decided about Biden. Depends partly on his VP and whether he mouths off about gun control.

Most elections I've voted Libertarian.

Jim

I've been quoted partially and out of context. What I said was I'd vote for any Dem with a pulse, before I'd vote for Trump. Which leaves Libertarian and other throw-your-vote-away parties for me to vote for.

Jim

Pretty sure Bag itch was your Mayor, Jim. Don't tell your brother you voted for him.

I understood that. I figure you will likely vote third party this election. I thought you declared biden pulse less after one of the debates after I posted some videos from him and one from his campaign manager?

Keith

I didn't.

My brother owns property in Bear Valley, in the foothills of Anchorage, and got hit with a big assessment for "re-surveying" the area when Begich was mayor.

My brother can't understand why it cost $5,000 per property to re-survey boundaries.

Jim

Bleck! You....know, the thing Biden makes me sick! Not because he’s far to old and apparently senile but because of his weird touching and hair sniffing. Total creep. Just my opinion of observing him in action.

Biden has three debates scheduled with Trump. Perhaps gun control will be a question.

Weaselly words or saying he's in favor of "hunting rifles" will count against either candidate.

Jmi

James, this thread you started against biden made me think you would not vote for biden also.

https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6617015/1

Keith

I wish I had more channels. I’d love to see those debates. Ought to be pretty entertaining, it’ll be like watching to Alzheimer’s patients argue over who’s grandchildren are coming to visit.

Biden's record

"Joe Biden on Gun Control
Former Vice President; previously Democratic Senator (DE)



I go skeet-shooting, badly, and my sons go bird-hunting
Q: How do you propose to sell your gun reform ideas to those who either own a gun or feel strongly about protecting Second Amendment rights?
BIDEN: I taught constitutional law. No amendment is absolute. None of you can stand up--[despite] the First Amendment on free speech--and yell "fire" here; you'd be arrested. From the very beginning, the founders said, not everyone is able to have a gun and you can't have any weapon you want. That has simply never been the case. There are limitations. I happen to have a 12-gauge shotgun and a 20-gauge shotgun, because--I haven't done it in a long time--but I skeet shoot. And I'm not very good at it, I might add. But my sons, they bird hunt. They haven't in a while. The point of the matter is that from the very beginning you're not allowed to have any weapon you want. This idea that you're going to need an AR-15 or any other assault weapon or you need any clip, any clip that has a hundred rounds in it, is absolutely bizarre.

Source: CNN S. C. Town Hall for 2020 Presidential primary , Feb 26, 2020

I beat the NRA twice: AR-15s & high-capacity magazines
I'm the only one on this stage who has taken on the NRA and beat them twice. We were able to get assault weapons off the streets for 10 years. The way to deal with AR-15s and assault weapons is to do what we did with machine guns. You must register that weapon. I'm the only one that moved to make sure that we could not have a magazine that had more than 10 rounds in it. Go after the gun manufacturers and take back the exemption they have of not being able to be sued.
Source: October Democratic CNN/NYTimes Primary debate , Oct 15, 2019

I'm the only candidate who beat the NRA with the Brady bill
Q: You have pointed to your ability to reach across the aisle to get things done, but four months after Sandy Hook, a measure to require expanded background checks died on the Senate floor. If you couldn't get it done after Sandy Hook, why should voters give you another chance?
BIDEN: Because I got it done before. I'm the only one up here that's ever beat the NRA --only one ever to beat the NRA nationally. I'm the guy that brought the Brady bill into-into focus and became law.

Source: September Democratic Primary debate in Houston , Sep 12, 2019

I'm the guy who got the Brady Bill passed
Joe Biden: I'm the only person that has beaten the NRA nationally. I'm the guy that got the Brady Bill passed, the background checks. We increased that background check during the Obama-Biden administration. I'm also the only guy that got assault weapons banned, and the number of clips in a gun banned. Our enemy is the gun manufacturers, not the NRA, the gun manufacturers.
Rep. Eric Swalwell: But the NRA is taking orders from the gun manufacturers, that's the problem.

Source: June Democratic Primary debate (second night in Miami) , Jun 27, 2019

Public supports gun control; Congress has not caught up
What matters the most to Biden these days is whether he can persuade Congress to enact meaningful gun-control laws. After the Sandy Hook shooting, in Newtown CT, Obama asked Biden to head up the Gun Violence Prevention Task Force. Though his efforts so far have failed to overcome congressional resistance, he says that he is not giving up.
Q: The background-check measure failed in the Senate, even though it was supported by 90% of the American people. What does it mean that we can't pass even the weakest measures to curb gun violence?

A: It means two things. One, that we have had an impact on the public's thinking. If we did that poll a week before Sandy Hook, my guess is you wouldn't have 90% of the American people. We've won the battle with the American public on this, not just on background checks but on magazines, on assault weapons, etc. This is a case where the public is way ahead of Congress. There has been a seminal shift in the attitude of the American public toward gun safety.

Source: Douglas Brinkley in Rolling Stone Magazine , May 9, 2013
Moral obligation to diminish senseless gun violence
It's been 33 days since the nation's heart was broken by the horrific, senseless violence that took place at Sandy Hook Elementary School. No one can know for certain if this senseless act could have been prevented, but we all know we have a moral obligation--a moral obligation--to do everything in our power to diminish the prospect that something like this could happen again.
I've worked in this field a long time--in the US Senate, having drafted the last gun violence legislation. I have no illusions about how hard the task is in front of us. But I also have never seen the nation's conscience so shaken by what happened at Sandy Hook. The world has changed, and it's demanding action.

The President asked me to put together a set of recommendations about how we should proceed to meet that moral obligation we have. The Cabinet and I sat down with 229 groups from law enforcement agencies to public health officials, to gun advocacy groups, to sportsmen & hunters & religious leaders.

Source: Remarks by the President & Vice President on Gun Violence , Jan 16, 2013

Keep assault weapons ban; close gun show loophole
Q: How many of you, in your adult lifetime, have had a gun in the house?
[Show of hands]: Senator Gravel, Senator Biden, Senator Dodd, Governor Richardson, Congressman Kucinich.

Q: Sen. Biden, what could the federal government have done to save those kids at Virginia Tech?

A: What they could have done is three things.

In the so-called Biden crime bill, we put 100,000 cops on the street. I’ve worked with law enforcement for the past 30 years, with armor-piercing bullets, waiting periods, etc. But the one thing that’s clear: We should not have let the assault weapons ban lapse.
We should close this so-called gun show loophole, so you can’t go into a gun show and buy a gun that you couldn’t buy walking into a gun shop.
We have let the country down in the way in which we have not focused on mental illness. We should know that your kid is safe at college. If teachers determine that a child is a danger, the school should be able to take them off the campus.
Source: 2007 South Carolina Democratic primary debate, on MSNBC , Apr 26, 2007

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005

Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence.
Vote to pass a bill that would block certain civil lawsuits against manufacturers, distributors, dealers and importers of firearms and ammunition, mainly those lawsuits aimed at making them liable for gun violence. In this bill, trade groups would also be protected The bill would call for the dismissal of pending lawsuits against the gun industry. The exception would be lawsuits regarding a defect in a weapon or ammunition. It also would provide a 10-year reauthorization of the assault weapons ban which is set to expire in September 2004. The bill would increase the penalties for gun-related violent or drug trafficking crimes which have not resulted in death, to a minimum of 15 years imprisonment. The bill calls for criminal background checks on all firearm transactions at gun shows where at least 75 guns are sold. Exemptions would be made available for dealers selling guns from their homes as well as members-only gun swaps and meets carried out by nonprofit hunting clubs.
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S.1805/H.R.1036 ; vote number 2004-30 on Mar 2, 2004

Voted YES on background checks at gun shows.
Require background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows.
Status: Amdt Agreed to Y)50; N)50; VP decided YES
Reference: Lautenberg Amdt #362; Bill S. 254 ; vote number 1999-134 on May 20, 1999


Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations.
The Hatch amdt would increase mandatory penalties for the illegal transfer or use of firearms, fund additional drug case prosecutors, and require background check on purchasers at gun shows. [A YES vote supports stricter penalties].
Status: Amdt Agreed to Y)48; N)47; NV)5
Reference: Hatch Amendment #344; Bill S. 254 ; vote number 1999-118 on May 14, 1999

Voted NO on loosening license & background checks at gun shows.
Vote to table or kill a motion to require that all gun sales at gun shows be completed by federally licensed gun dealers. Also requires background checks to be completed on buyers and requires gun show promoters to register with the Treasury.
Reference: Bill S.254 ; vote number 1999-111 on May 11, 1999

Voted NO on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks.
Vote to table [kill] an amendment to make it unlawful for gun dealers to sell handguns without providing trigger locks. Violation of the law would result in civil penalties, such as suspension or revocation of the dealer's license, or a fine.
Reference: Bill S 2260 ; vote number 1998-216 on Jul 21, 1998

Rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record.
Biden scores F by NRA on pro-gun rights policies
While widely recognized today as a major political force and as America's foremost defender of Second Amendment rights, the National Rifle Association (NRA) has, since its inception, been the premier firearms education organization in the world. But our successes would not be possible without the tireless efforts and countless hours of service our nearly three million members have given to champion Second Amendment rights and support NRA programs.

The following ratings are based on lifetime voting records on gun issues and the results of a questionaire sent to all Congressional candidates; the NRA assigned a letter grade (with A+ being the highest and F being the lowest).

Source: NRA website 02n-NRA on Dec 31, 2003"

Keith

Well...even if they take my ar, I still have an assault shovel.

The dem party will never allow a debate. Way too much to lose. Scheduled or not, they won't happen!

Not so sure "union" and "good" can be used in the same sentence but...........aside from being a union member, what other reasons are there for a trapper to support the Dem party?

I’ll never understand how someone can get upset over a tweet but nothing over an unborn child having its brain sucked out.

Good god hobbiebtrapper! The horrible truth in that post!

Then why bother voting except to make yourself feel morally superior to everyone else, me I try to make the best choice possible from what is available, I might not like the choice I have, unlike some I am not a Trump fan, never have been even when I worked for him he always rubbed me the wrong way, but I will vote for him because the other choice is to me unthinkable and I will not do anything to support that turnout even if it’s by inaction such as throwing my vote away in an effort to make myself feel morally better then others.

Well! How bout that! Jim and I got something in common. We are morally superior. I always suspected I was.

It's good to know we're superior in some way, isn't it, Dirt?

Jim

James didn't we have an AR ban at one time?(facetious question)

What was the Supreme Court ruling on that one? You have more faith in them than I do.

As you put it, Biden has already mouthed off about gun control.

I have no confidence at all in that black dress wearing collection of miscreants called scotus. they have proven over and over and over again that they will decide according to political leanings rather than what is supposed to be constitutional law.

I don't recall the SC ever ruling on the '92 (?) AR ban. The facts have become even stronger for gun owners since the Heller case because millions of ARs are in private hands.

Jim

and what kind of SC Justices do you believe Joe "I'm putting Beto in charge of my gun policy" Biden will appoint?

https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden-promises-to-put-beto-orourke-in-charge-of-gun-control/

Biden (speaking about Beto) said “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him,” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re going to be the one who leads this effort.”

If you're not clear on Biden's stance on gun control by now, you haven't been paying attention.

The man is a career politician, been part of the swamp for what, forty-plus years? There are plenty of examples, text, video and audio files of his anti-gun stance.

There are none so blind that can see but will not. I have many times been perplexed on this site by men that hunt, fish and trap that also support gun control, abortion and homosexuality by their vote. They also vote in tandem with the looters and rioters we are seeing. I would have to worry about myself.

Oklahoma will overwhelmingly support Trump in November. I too will vote Libertarian. My non-vote for Trump will not help Biden. I guess if I lived in a blue or toss up state I would hold my nose and vote for Trump. Biden and his democrat buddies are that bad.

But y'all are crazy if you think Trump has advanced the 2A cause. When Trump had the house and senate, he did zip. And please save the Supreme Court commentary. You cannot rely on the Supreme Court. What we needed was signed legislation. For example, the Hearing Protection Act would have been a big win.

Forget the pulse standard. I would gladly vote for any other republican with integrity. I always have before.

I have to agree with your post Blaine.

There is evidence that folks haven’t learned a thing so I’m gonna vote democrat again.

Yep supposed to deregulate suppressors and make a national carry law. Reminds me of “lock her up “

Yes , but what about the precious unions? I have little problem with a well run union, but the fact is the Dems have basically killed offf the unions and are presently attacking the police unions, Why would any good union member vote Dem?

Trump did NOT have a super majority in either house, and after one conveniently timed "mass" shooting, he could not get support from a few dems. As far as you and James feeling "superior" to Trump, I feel a reassessment is in order.

Biden has already said that he will put the texan skateboarder in charge of gun control. But then again he has also said that he was running for the senate this year and that he does not work for us and called his sister his wife.

Like I say.......perplexed. Kentucky will probably be the first state called for Trump in November. I went to three flea markets this weekend and Trump shirts, hats, signs and banners were everywhere. Many people wearing a Trump supported items. Yard signs with a Trump 2020. I have yet to see a Biden anything here. No bumper stickers, signs or anything. I have to assume, because I know they’re among us, they’re at least a little bit ashamed to admit how they’ll vote, here. Most of the democrat support here are those on welfare because they know the govt. butters their bread. Starting to see a few “ young nuts” that have been brainwashed in school and college that are to really be pitied.

I wonder that about every single person that proclaims they are a Christian or Catholic. How can one follow Christ and support murder by abortion by voting for a democrat.?? LLL

Kinda like Jonah. You go around telling folks they got “it” coming and then nothing.

I figure it ain’t bad enough yet but maybe, just maybe, this might be the year. lol

What you ought to be wondering is why so much of the Christian Church, especially evangelicals, support a morally corrupt man for president, and repudiate the words of Jesus about helping the downtrodden, the poor and refugees. Shameful!

Jim

It's getting deep again! Where's my boots?

Jesus never said anything about abortion, even thought the practice was known in his time.

He did criticize those who worship wealth and those who won't help those in need. Like refugees.

I've asked this in the past, but never got an answer:

Why don't some of you anti-abortion guys step up to the plate, walk your talk. Adopt an unwanted child. (My Christian son did; talked a woman out of an abortion by agreeing to adopt the twins.) Give money to Planned Parenthood for birth control information and products for young women. Write your Congressmen to urge more funding for poor young women and men to learn and practice safe sex.

Start or help fund an organization.

But nah. Most people who whine about abortion are only interested in their armchairs and how much beer they have in the fridge.

Jim

Remind us all again what the unemployment rate was in this country pre covid? Especially in minority communities that you have stated you are publicly concerned about?

What did the other person who occupied the president's office do to equal what Trump has done?

Hatred is a very thick set of blinders. At least look at the facts of the two and compare. Things have been much better under Trump because he has always been proud of America and proud to be an American.

Unlike the other two buffoons who were allowed to run rampant because........

If Biden is allowed to run as the nominee, it will be the most embarrassing presidential run in history. He has early dementia or alzheimer's. I don't know which. And anyone who argues that is a fool.

But if he gets on that debate stage with Trump, it will be a slaughter using his own knife on himself. If the democrats have any self respect, they will find another candidate. To let Biden run borders on being sadistic and/or just plain stupid. It is like the democrats want to watch a train wreck or a dumpster burn in their own yard. I actually have even less respect for democrats than I did previously and I did not think that was possible. For GOD's sake show some mercy. The man is senile and it will only get worse.

If there was a republican running with Biden's mental faculties, imagine what the media would be saying. Seriously.

“The poor will always be with us.”

How many do you want us to adopt? Taxpayers are already financially supporting a multitude of children, to the point many can’t afford to have kids of their own.

Safe sex? How about no sex if you don’t know the consequences?

Many do just that and many contribute money to antiabortion places that give a woman a chance to see all the sides. In Christianity it is looked down upon when one says “oh look at what I have done. When fasting rub oil on your beard so no one will know and surely God will see it and reward you. I doubt your son would want you to be bragging him up. LLL

I will if you will walk those same streets proclaiming how important it is for a woman to be able to kill her unborn child. Not pro choice, not women's health, not a woman's sovereign right to her body. Exclaim how important it is for a woman to be able to kill her unborn child. No "weaselly" words. Right? Lawyers seek the truth, right?

My guess is your chair is very comfortable.

Also I might add that God appoints all authority. He never wanted us to have any headship but him. Read about it in 1-2 Kings. If we were to choose a leader that God would consider worthy who would that be do you think James? As Christians we must vote against immorality and side with someone who will lead in things important to God. Remember Cyrus the great. Bad guy- great outcome for the people of God.

Welfare, abortion, etc etc. All talking points just to get votes. It's all bs to fool the people. I vote for who ever doesn't strip my rights and freedoms. That would not be democrats.

It’s interesting you choose the Bible to reference when you want to twist a meaning to your benefit. Then deny its authority when you don’t like the stance. What about the men God used to uplift Christians who were not by any stretch of the imagination “Godly men”. I would never call Trump a Godly man, I would never say he and I have much in common. Under every other circumstance I never liked Donald Trump. What I see now is a man that is a man. He is flawed, he is wrong sometimes, and he is quick tempered. BUT, he has taken a stance opposing some of the worst evil and corrupt people in our nations history, he has stood up for all Americans. He has done exactly what he said he was going to do and that is a true measure of a man in my eyes. Donald Trump can only stand up for Americans he can’t make every American exercise their rite to uplift themselves and overachieve. James, at your age I hope you understand that life is very precious. The material things in this life are of no importance but the relationships you have and your influence will be all that remains of you when you return to dust. I pray that God works wonders in your heart and continues to bless your family in your absence. I pray that you will be a changed man, not into what I want you to be, but into what God needs you to be for all of humanity.

It's all in what one Wants to see. When it comes to abortion, it's " my body my choice", 3000 lives a day are taken. But yet you Have to wear a mask, you Have to get vaccinated , what happened to my body my choice? I don't vote just by the d or r in front of the name as I believe its a blurry line between the two parties. I vote for who I think is better for our country.
No one is put into power that God does not want into power. Good or bad, it's all a means to an end.
It's not if we will lose our hunting, trapping rights, 2nd amend. it's when will we lose. The veil is off and the agendas are clear to anyone that wants to see them.

So voting for someone to defend abortions is more important than voting for someone to keep our guns and lands for trapping?

WOW

Didn't Biden recently say he will have Beto in charge of confiscating firearms ?

Don't count on SCOTUS to protect guns. The Dems have already voiced their intent to pack the court.

It is pretty clear why SCOTUS did not decide to hear any 2A cases . None out of ten ! The 4 conservatives know that Roberts is untrustworthy.

If you're waiting to see who Biden picks as a VP, that tells me you are likely further left than Biden himself. We all know what the plan is, and that any VP pick will not have America's best interests at heart. No elected Democrat does at this point.

Not what I said, if you look pretty much any candidate that is pro life they are also pro 2nd and support hunting and trapping. If we lose one, we're just a short ride away from losing the rest.

Wasn't your comment that got me to say that, it's the ones who seem more concerned with defending abortion than worrying about gun grabbers.

The exact reason we need Trump replacing Ginsburg and possibly another one.

Yes, Biden did say exactly that. And, as I said before, anyone not certain of Biden's anti-2A stance has had their head stuck in the sand or is being obtuse.

The rest of your post is spot on as usual. But you're not going to change James's mind on that or any other liberal. The folks here on Tman voting D almost certainly understand that D's are not the friends of trappers, hunters and gun-owners. But they vote for them anyhow.

Let's get back to the main topic of this thread, being a trapper and supporting the dem party. Another thing trappers need is land. A place to trap. Many of us trap on public land. The Dem party has traditionally supported higher restrictions on land use. Dems are hand in hand with orgs like the Wilderness Society and pass laws that prohibit consumptive uses on public land. Hunting and trapping are consumptive.
Voting Dem just makes it harder for us to have a place to trap!

James, there is around 2,000,000 US families, actively enrolled to adopt available babies. That's 36 families for every baby available for adoption in the US. 3,477,000 US women, with fertility problems, are interested in adopting babies. Most want to adopt more babies, after the first.

https://www.americanadoptions.com/pregnant/waiting_adoptive_families

Over 81,000,000 Americans have considered adopting. Families know the chances of being able to adopt a baby is exceedingly slim.

There is a huge shortage of babies to adopt.

Keith

"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!”

William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice"

Not saying that James is the devil, but that anyone can use the bible to make a point they want.

Keith

I would be devastated if a woman aborted my child, thats why I dont go knocking up floozies. That said I could care less about abortion, is there anyone else who cant be bothered to even remotely care if babies you have no connection to are aborted? Maybe I am a heartless but I cant find a shred of care in this issue and fail to see why it is so bitterly divisive.

Republicans have repeatedly tried to sell of public land, is that not as big of a threat to the future of outdoor users?

If hunting and trapping get banned- would it matter who owned the land?

Depends on who buys it.

If you lose the land the user base uses you will lose the user base, if you have fewer hunters/trappers bans are near certain.

Selling land ruins it here. Except when I bought.

The left wants to take our guns and the right wants to sell off our public lands. They're both lowlifes in suits desperate for votes.

Very much a false statement to level the accusation that republicans are alone in the selling of public lands.
Every sale is authorized by the BLM and it happens under both parties.
Furthermore, all bureaucracies in D.C. are overwhelmingly democrats based on their voting record which is 95%+ for democrats.

There's only been a very few conservatives who wanted to sell proportionately small amounts of public land, when you look at the whole of it. Hordes of democrats seek to ban hunting, trapping, fishing, gleaning of any sort of vegetative matter from public lands, firearms, free speech, freedom in ggeneral and to sell public land. Democrats are our enemies.

Keith

Around here, the right overwhelmingly leads the charge to sell off public lands. I'm sure both sides are guilty of letting it happen. The problem is we lump all these issues together on either the right or the left, and are expected to support the whole shebang, lest we be considered a traitor. I like a few aspects of each side, but despise the whole package offered by either party.

A man who spied on women taking baths, slept with his employee's wife, ordered the death of said employee when the employees loyalty and devotion went counter the man's plans was called a man after God's own heart and is credited as the greatest of kings.
While I can't speak to our president's relationship with God I trust my God to put the men of His choosing in places of power according to His will.

Yep, how quick we forget about Harry Reid and the Chinese wanting land in Nevada for solar energy.

Again, this is deeper than party in control at the top when the swamp is almost all democrats.

I thought the whole idea of this country was private property. When the government owns the means of production, what is that called?

It's called corruption

Wrong

It cuts both ways. Look into the recent dam failures here in Michigan for an example of private management of public resources gone bad. Public and private land both have their place, and incredible value to the American people. To stand solely for one or the other is foolish and utterly unAmerican.

Not when it comes to our second admendment!

Dems are the enemy.

Here's a hint!

I drove down a road I'm not on often here a month or two ago, and saw a lone Biden yard sign. I drove back down that road a week later, and the house directly across the road from them had 3 brand new flag poles: A US flag, MS State flag (with confederate flag on it), and a Trump 2020 flag. I about died laughing, lol.

There's a reason these threads about the second, trapping and democrats get deleted...it's because the democrats can't defend their stance and the thread always gets turned to a prohibited political topic. I feel they're the insecure on their choice orzz they'd stay on topic.

Sure, there are instances of republicans going against the grain, Buck and I argued many times over that with me saying Reagan wasn't very pro gun and helped get Clintons ban passed.

OVerall, taking everything into concideration, there's no defense for supporting dems when it comes to the second.

Example.... Biden as a choice was highly dispelled on the first page, but alas, let's go on about a different area other than the second. This is why " debating" it with the same person or people is worthless.

This is part of the official Republican party platform


"Congress shall immediately pass universal legislation providing for a timely and orderly mechanism requiring the federal government to convey certain federally controlled public lands to states."

I want the continuation of public lands held in trust for all, the Republicans do not want that.

it's not that I support Democrats, it's that blind support for Republicans leads to apathy from party leaders towards many issues we care about.

Now your getting into state rights more than republicans giving/selling our land.

Our state ground is open to all, yours isnt?I

Careful with this one Donner, libertarians want a smaller Fed gov't?

Do you think states like Nevada would keep the land open to public access or do you think they will eventually run up against budget shortfalls and sell the land?

This turning not something I’ve noticed in some churches. They will jump around and take small parts here and there and try to web them together to make it say what they want. And a squirrel, Instead of standing on a solid limb and eating a hickory nut some want to go Waaay up the tree and Waay out a limb and reach Waaay out to the end to try to get a nut or in this case prove or justify whatever they want. There really is no logical discussions to whether it is unclear as to which party stands for what.

A few years ago I was driving through WY. I wanted to stop and see Independence Rock. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it is owned and maintained by the state of Wyoming NOT the feds. You could actually walk up to the rock, and touch it. Walk all the way around and read all the inscriptions. If it had been federal, it would have been behind concertina wire a hundred yards from the rock.

There is a similar but smaller rock...Register Rock , in Idaho. It is federal and completely enclosed in a wood and wire structure.

Give some thought also to what the Constitution says about federal ownership of land. I believe it is fairly limited to "forts & ports"........not thousands of square miles of the country.

This whole thread reeks of politics and thus:

Is in violation of Bossman Dobbins' 5th Commandment.

"THOU SHALT NOT ENGAGE IN POLITICS ON TRAPPERMAN.COM"

Just Saying !!!

w

I
I don't know, probably if there is no mineral to be had.

It's not like it was safe when Harry had a kid on the Chinese companies board that wanted land near the Bundys.

What about the states vs Fed and the Libertarian platform?

Not if it pertains to trapping, and that was the premise that started this thread. Any politics that pertains to directly to trapping, is allowed, always has been. It's gotten off course here and there, but so far it's not gotten too bad where it had to go away.

Been hard tho! Lol

I am not a libertarian. I am a conservative who believes it is a good thing to preserve wilderness areas.

It's a complicated subject, and I don't trust either entity to look out for us completely to be honest.

Donner look at Oregon and some of the interest groups that are in bed with the Dems and you can see where they want to remove restrict activities in wilderness areas . They would prefer that no one used those areas at all. I am not a fan of huge wilderness areas and think all study areas should either go thru the process and be approved or removed from that status. Now roadless areas and travel restrictions are great in my opinion.

Wouldnt they restrict the areas as much or more so if they were state owned rather than federal?

I spent my childhood roaming Snowy Range in Wyoming on foot and caught lots of trout. Now with ATVs and all trails open to them, a trout cannot be caught in a stream on Snowy Range last time I tried. I'm in favor of restricted access myself.

You mean like how Biden ALREADY said hes sending Beto out after our guns if hes elected.Thats not enough for you.You are so full of it JIMMY your eyes must be brown.

please cite your source that he repudiated Jesus.

for the record, Jesus didn't lobby ROME (secular government) to take care of the poor, etc...He said that the religious folks should do so.

"shameful" is deliberately misrepresenting what Jesus stood for. and I KNOW you know better, because you have said (on more than one ocassion) that you've read the Bible.

that was one of Dad's favorite expressions!

(there were a couple more, that I can't repeat here...)

I can't believe there is any honest debate over which party is more likely to restrict trapping or gun ownership. If it is not obvious, there is nothing anyone here can say to make it any more clear.

In this day and time I can't comprehend anyone who loved to hunt fish or trap, being able to cast a vote for a Democrat

"If I want any s*** outta you, I'll take your hat off and dip it out!"

unless it's a Dem Governor MANDATING they wear a mask. Right?

I am very familiar with public lands in Wy some is state parks and it has rules you pay for camping, boat launch and to enter the park. State leased lands used for grazing, mineral extraction and crop production just as well be owned by the lessee You have to have permission both by State and lessee to trap it or hunt it and your not allowed to camp drive or trespass on it.BLM and Forset Service you just trap hunt and camp for the most part where you wish and the money made by the feds for grazing, timber and minerals 25 % is given to the county. I think the feds gave us a pretty good deal with federal lands.

LOL @ Gary!

Crap I’m going to sound very ignorant here....but when exactly did we start selling land to other countries??? Can I buy land in China? I’d never buy in China, more of a South America guy.

Some folks didn't get the Boss's hint, but I did. I'll return to the original subject.

Based on trapping, hunting, and gun rights alone, and leaving other considerations aside, I would think that Democrat trappers wouldn't support their party at this time.

Jim

Lol sorry I broke the rules...pm me an answer if necessary. Just figured a question about the land we use was relevant.

Why don't you start a new thread?

Jim

No no the grand stand is yours.

You would think, but the union thing has a strong hold on some and they "believe" that voting dem is their job. I am willing to bet that the police union members in Seattle will still donate and vote dem.

Good morning James. I'm going to take you, in a loving manner, out behind the woodshed, and you're going to get a whooping about the line and the theme that Bill Clinton, the progressives, and even some pastors have said in error. That Jesus never said anything about abortion, even though the practice was known in his time. I suspect you cut and pasted but I won't have to. You are incorrect. Scripture is absolutely clear on the biggest moral bankruptcy in our country = abortion. In fact, the reasons evangelicals and the church are sometimes confusing on this issue is that they wage the battle as if it's a political fight. It's not. It's a human morality fight. The progressives want it fought the way it's being fought now, but there are great inroads occurring as church folks regroup correctly.

First, when we deem what is life, what isn't life and when/what/how this occurs, we are now acting as God. God is very clear in Genesis about who is God and we are not. Very.
Second, Scripture tells us God's Children have a personality even before they are born; John the Baptist, while in the womb as a baby, leapt for joy (Greek word brephos), Luke 1:41, Jesus did also in Luke 2:12, 16, and the children who approached Jesus, Luke 18:15. Rebekah's children skirmished as a comparator in the Hebrew text of Genesis. So we see James, the Bible does say that it isn't a developing fetus in the womb, it's a fully developed child in the eyes of God! Further, my favorite Psalm is 139, that tells us God creates us all in the womb, in great marvel and majesty.

I might also add that the folks (Clinton and many others) do not know God. They may say they do, but it's not the God of the Bible they profess. The God of the Bible, Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is one God as 3 Persons, perfect in unity, so when the Father speaks it is the same mission as Jesus, and vice versa. Far too many sects of Christianity deem Christ as a really good man, but not fully God. That has not been the orthodox Christian faith since the Early Church Fathers helped explain it.

There is so much more, but this is far enough to discount the progressive view you offered.
When we dehumanize humans, which God creates, we actively choose to be god, and turn from God. It couldn't be more striking that Jesus spoke as clear as fine glass on the sanctity of life. He came as the Incarnate for its eternal salvation. There has been no bigger statement in all of human history.

That's why progressives hate it. And why they actively seek to destroy all that is godly.
The only mystery may be, why does God allow it?
And that's a whole other answer.

Hope this helps open your eyes James.
Blessings
Mark

I'm amazed at all the guys still playing checkers when we need to be playing chess. It's not a Democrat vs Republican thing at this point. It's a how can I best advance the cause of freedom and liberty. IMO neither main nor any of the various thirds are a one shot path to that goal. I don't trust the average republican anymore than the average democrat. Heck I actually trust the democrat more. More to pursue and enact anti 2A and anti constitutional legislation than the republican to oppose.
As far as my strategy goes I've identified the main enemy and the party it hides in and gives it cover and will vote for and campaign for anything and anyone who has a chance of slowing or defeating that enemy.
It might surprise you but I actively campaigned for a democrat in the most recent local primary. Solely to defeat a much worse SJW progressive sitting commissioner in a solid democrat district. I even went so far as to urge republicans to cross over in our open primary. Unfortunately my candidate lost.
On the national stage it's obvious that the worst of the lot is the D party with the R being barely trustworthy. No 3rd option has even a hint of a chance at either winning outright or influencing either of the mains. NOTE, if a third could pose a serious enough split the vote threat then an influence vote would be worth the waste to swing a main into line. (Ross Perot comes to mind)
At this point Trump is my guy if for no other reason than to stop the democrats and as a non establishment to screw the republicans and hopefully get something done on exposing and draining the swamp. JMO, while we all may want a "none of the above" candidate or outsider not beholden to party politics I believe Trump has demonstrated that it can only be done, at this time, through one of the main two. Not until the stranglehold the two have over the swamp is broken will a third or coalition have a snowball's chance in perdition.

Thank you!

^^^^^^^
It would seem both national parties have slid to the left, to the left.
It's not liberalism.
It's called progressivism.
I wish we'd name them what they are.
Progressivism started in Europe and I have no idea why America, who cut most ties with that continent, feel deeply in love with Europe's bright thinkers about the same time as this country was founded. It picked up steam (progressivism of man) in the 1800's, pulled back a bit in the 1900's, but once again it's full steam ahead. Globalists are the epitome of progressives. They rule the world. So much for that Christian pagan God!

In depth research tells us, Americans don't like the word progressivism. It doesn't "sell" here like it does in Europe. So the branders renamed it "liberalism = liberals." Americans like that term,

I call then what they are. Progressives. Toward more man. Away from anything God.

Mark, I've been studying up on critical thinking and the Frankfurt School. It's amazing how the slow but steady incursion of that evil has spread.

James I am still waiting for your answer on who would be worthy in God's eyes to run the country. Surely as knowing as you are in the scriptures you would have quickly answered. I would actually be more interested in what your son would say since it appears he is practicing his faith according to you. (Have no reason to believe he is not) The POTUS is a flawed man as you and I are. I vote for those who would help further Christ's kingdom here in the US. I can wait for the answer so please put some thought into it. I have waited all my life for a man to lead in a Godly way. I bet I will never see it in my lifetime here but will be united with the one true King face to face and even I will be made PERFECT. LLL

As far as godly politicians go I figure we as christians have but two choices. Either go the way of the Amish and withdraw from the world, which is not scriptural, or prayerfully vote for the best option given while influencing the world for Christ.

Thanks for you honesty Jim.

This is not going to improve, and has been the case for over 50 years.

Mark, don't take James out behind the wood shed.........whoop him in public............you could sell tickets and make a fortune.

LOL Democratic trappers debate without any democrats participating.
LMAO.
just

Mark, you've given us a nice spectacle of John the Baptist leaping in the womb, but you didn't prove any part of my statement incorrect. If Jesus said something about abortion, it ought to be easy for you to find that passage of Scripture.

I've looked, never could find it. Maybe you can quote it for us?

Jim

I went with my daughter when she was about six or seven months pregnant for her ultrasound. It was amazing to watch. The difference in clarity than when she was a baby. My little granddaughter already had well defined facial features, she looked just like mom, was yawning and moving her little arms. I don’t need to find it in the Bible to know that it’s wrong to murder unborn babies. Since this is off the OP a bit I’ll tie it in....the same people are anti trapping, anti gun, largely pro abortion and are the same ones you are seeing on TV looting and rioting. I’d have to ask myself, why am I aligned politically with these people? What am I going over top of morally to justify my alliance with them?

How about God Himself when He instructed the Israelites not to allow their children to pass through the fire (sacrificed to the canaanite god molech)

Exodus 20

Not going to argue religion or if abortion is right or wrong, or about the choice of a women. Just posing a question, who is going to absorb the cost of all the kids now being aborted?? Seems like a lot of folks on this site including me are tired of funding welfare.

Cost? I see added labor force, wage earners and taxpayers.

I think the point of this thread was to debate if electing Democrats is good for the future of trapping and gun rights. We already know it's not good for the future of unborn babies.

Spot on Walleye.

I agree with MT original post 100%. The only thing I would add is that any canuck trappers who vote for Canadian Liberals, NDP, or Green Party are cutting their own throats as well.

DEMOCRATS FOR TRUMP!!!

I just realized I'm talking about abortion in two different threads. Although there's some good points made here, I think I'll go back to the original subject, and discuss abortion in the sovereignty post.


Jim

Regarding trapping, hunting and gun rights it is pretty obvious that voting Democrat is a bad idea, but if you want a specific example I offer Minnesota's Governor Walz. The guy cannot stop bragging about following the best possible science in the Covid 19 response, yet he was able to take a position opposing Wolf hunting and trapping in Minnesota without looking at a single speck of science.

Do you have a lot of people in MN that are anti-gun, -trapping, and -hunting?

Jim

Ok back to the debate, though I did not vote for Obama he got it approved to now carry guns into national parks big thing in Yellowstone and Glacier with the grizzly and national parks back east some of them from what I hear, not thinking I would want to tour them with out packing. What has Potus done for gun rights other than banning bump stocks. I have not seen the Grizzly de-listed wolves are for the most part still protected in Wy. and sage grouse will soon be listed. Our coal revenues are down as well as gas/oil which will increase our taxes. My crop and cattle prices are down. Republicans in our state keep trying to get rid of public lands which I will not vote for any of that. Im just not seeing things better or going to get better. Not sure I will be voting for either one come November. Local and state I will vote the issues and see who does the job.

Apparently yes, based on the people being elected, but keep in mind most of what makes this a "blue state" are the metro areas that overwhelm the less populated areas of the state.

We are getting those areas in Wy and they are not poor folks

Warrior,

May your tribe increase.
You are citing truth.
Who would have thought such a small group of evil doers could have such a profound impact.

Wasn't Kennedy the last good Democratic POTUS

Well if you can't win on the merits you can always deflect and dodge. lol, LLL

If you want to take up an abortion issue, you can find me in the sovereignty thread. I'm not ducking and dodging anything.

Jim

That's not an abortion question. I overlooked it.

I have no idea who would be worthy in God's eyes. I'm not going to presume to know the answer there.

But I don't believe God, if He exists, would want a sociopath running our country. Almost any normal person with a conscience is better than a sociopath without one. (And that's the definition of sociopath--no conscience.)

I'm not talking about policies now. I can disagree with a person's policies and still respect his character--if he's got one.

Having a conscience is a BIG deal. Bigger than party politics, whether someone is Democrat or Republican. Trump has none.

Jim

We all have a conscience, James. How each of us let's our conscience effect us is how we differ. Trump has done good things for this country. Not all of them have worked well, some maybe not at all. Certainly his policies have been done because he has a conscience. Perhaps you are seeking perfection?

Nope. Trump is a sociopath. That means, as I said, he has no conscience.

He's demonstrated this countless times.

I don't demand perfection, but I do expect someone who's better than the average human being.

Jim

the War on Coal is DEMOCRATIC POLICY.

PERIOD!

some folks could rightfully claim that Trump's conscience is higher than YOURS!

lol

Question for you, Jim.

Have you actually met and spent time with Mr Trump in order to form such a low opinion of him?

Follow up, if not how do you gather such personal data on Mr Trump?

And finally, I wasn't aware that you had training in medicine or psychiatry.

Oh the irony. Pro choice supporter being the authority on conscience.

It looks like this thread will not remain on the subject it was intended for. So, I'll lock it.