Peeking in on James

With a question for the retired counselor.

What is your explanation for the natural propensity of humankind to so often, and so easily, act in what society classifies as a negative manner? Survival of the fittest evolutionary trait?

Interesting question.

No fetchin up, entitlement, lack of accountability, lack of morals. # satan at work.




Charlie

Considering the time difference I'm going to guess he's sleeping.

Lack of accountability and morals. Many people think the world revolves around them. Unfortunately, some parents and institutions ingrain this idea in our children with the everyone's a winner and you are entitled to things just because you are alive mentality.

James will check in when he has a moment.
I was just wondering his take on why psychologists tell us our brain tends to conjure the negative more so than the positive?

I have not verified this but I have been told by several friends who deployed to the gulf wars that there is a 'kids' TV channel for Arabs Algizere (sp?) maybe that has kids shows depicting suicide bombings and the like of Jewish people as a heroic act.

If we contrast that to what I sure hope our kids and grandkids are taught, I think the difference becomes clear.


Some parents raise their kids to love opportunities, embrace a philosophy of love and appreciation of their fellow mankind and some raise their kids to hate. That being said, I try to always judge one by their actions, but it appears to me that some pretty despicable actions are being basically approved by some truly evil people and a great big glob of useful idiots like what passes for news media at this time.


I think we are all born with the propensity to be selfish and spiteful but there are many opportunities to answer a higher calling. Some obviously accept them and some are not quite so inspired.

People think too much and don't dole out discipline enough.

Parents were too busy on their smartphones to give the kids attention.

Don't have to be an attorney to answer that. But a bit of time studying sociology would handy. I sure sometime in your educational past you took such a class,

Used to be a psychologist on here I believe.
Again, not an attorney question unless that is what the guy got his undergraduate degree in.

Common sense. Stop and look at the big picture. What provides more stimulus on any give day for most people?
Worded another way, what type of feedback do the majority of folks receive, negative or positive?

Has the art of parenting improved or worsened in the the last 3 or 4 decades?

None of this has happened overnight.

Have parents (which includes a large member of the population that should never have bred) had better or worse live in the past 3 or 4 decades?

Lots of pieces to this crap pie.

I could go on but I am neither a attorney nor a psychologist. But I have spent more time with each than I should have! LOL

Good points Mac.
The counselor and I have a fun time.
His is the tact of a short question and then you respond.
I was trying to T it up as he would offer it.

Got it. Warm down there Mark? Hotter than heck here

I don't know that you're right with such a negative view of humanity. I have a different view.

I see most people trying to do the right thing most of the time. I see people--with some exceptions--caring about other people and helping them out when they have a chance.

If I'm wrong, then show me your evidence. I'm not aware of evidence to support your dark view of humanity. Sure, some of us commit atrocities on others, but that's not most of us.

I now happen to be reading a book on sociopaths written by a psychologist. She contends sociopaths don't have the one thing the rest of humanity shares: a conscience.

Fortunately, only one in twenty-five people is a sociopath. Your view seems to encompass them, but not most of us.

Jim

If 1 in 25 are sociopaths and if my math is correct, this means 13,200,000 people in the United States are sociopaths. That is a lot of nut cases running around to possibly do us harm.

Isn't the natural conscience formed in a human by the time a kid is 3 or 4 years old. A head hunter that eats people would probably teach the ( art of cooking your enemy) to their kids and thus no conscience would be violated. Maybe they just need a good old Holy Ghost revival to wake the spiritual conscience.

I object your honor. Counsel is not restating my question as I asked it of him.
James, the Psychologists routinely speak of Negativity Bias in humans, and my question was; What is your legal opinion on this human trait?
You answered a question I never asked.
As a matter of record, my family and friends tell me I'm an optimist. I bet many trappers are. "we're gonna catch more tomorrow than we did today?"

Keep focused counselor. Don't invent.
The judge sustained my objection.
Please proceed.

My answer was in part an objection to the form of your question. You assume a fact not in evidence: the alleged propensity of people to act in a negative manner.

I disagree with your assumption, and I said why. Ask a less loaded question, and maybe I can answer it; but I doubt it, as it seems to require psychological, not legal, expertise.

Homo sapiens is a complex species. We are capable of selfishness, and also of altruism. In most of us, there is at times a war between selfishness and altruism--between good and evil, if you wish.

I get the sense you have an intended course for this thread to follow. Why don't you either rephrase your question, or answer it yourself?

Jim

Sin nature.

James,
No motive.
I've answered many a Q that you've raised and I was trying to take your pulse is all.
You like to Wiki and Google so you can zero in on countless articles related to negativity bias in humans.
I would agree there is a mix of good and evil in most people.

Just wondering' is all.

Don't have time to research or for deep thinking. I just drop in here for a breather now and then.

What is the legal part of the question?

Jim

They're not nutcases, really, though the diagnosis is antisocial personality disorder. They don't have a conscience, and are incapable of love, affection, and other warm emotions. They do cause great harm, getting their kicks out of deceiving, manipulating, and cheating other people. Fortunately most don't become serial killers.

I'm convinced I ran into plenty of sociopaths during my law career.

Jim

Hahahahaaaa that's the definition of a LAWYER.. JIMMY...

I am curious James, how do you feel your overall experience was with this program?

Do you mean my MFA program discussed in the other thread?

If so, I'm learning a lot in it. I'm halfway through.

Jim

Mark, I've now got most of my residency response written. I've read your OP again, and thought about it more, I'll take another swing at your original two questions.

You asked, "What is your explanation for the natural propensity of humankind to so often, and so easily, act in what society classifies as a negative manner? Survival of the fittest evolutionary trait?"

That's not a legal question, and I don't see the connection to negativity bias (which I looked up). I don't have any expertise in sociology or socio-biology (or whatever they call it), but I'll tell you what I believe.

Except for sociopaths, who can do anything without remorse, most of us have a war going on inside us between our conscience and our selfish interests. Our conscience is what allows us to have an emotional connection to other human beings. Being without a conscience means you can't love or feel an emotional connection.

The evolution of a conscience is an interesting thing to consider; but I digress.

Back to the original question: A lot of bad human behavior is done by sociopaths. Studies show that twenty percent of prison inmates are sociopaths, while they make up four percent of the population.

But why do good people, normal people with a conscience, do bad stuff? Self-interest, which is an evolutionary survival trait, I suppose. Altruism prevails some of the time, but not always.

Jim

upstate, you won the Internet today for this post!

Trying to kill off a thread again, Marlin?

Jim

for praising someone else's post?

displaced aggression, I suspect...

I remember YOU taking credit/blame for that.

Yes, I let you bait me into saying things I regretted.

Don't get too puffed-up about it. It won't happen again.

Jim

Anyway, this ain't my thread you're trying to sink.

I've copied my above post and PM'd it to Mark. So do your worst.

Jim

But why do good people, normal people with a conscience, do bad stuff? Self-interest, which is an evolutionary survival trait, I suppose. Altruism prevails some of the time, but not always.

Jim[/quote]

Greed or jealousy ?

I will bow out.

please continue the discussion here.

(I'd like to read it)

Thanks.

Greed or jealousy ?[/quote]
They listen to Satan.

Why do a multitude of white folks join BLM, Yet no Black folks join KKK?

Their "white guilt" has been pounded into them through the public/liberal education system.

Who does this and Why?

Impressionable, middle class white kids who had no parental involvement in their lives. They get shipped off to college and soak up all the Marxist learning that they are fed.

They believe everything they hear from their professors and hear/see on the internet.

And they have no personal responsibility. They have been spoon fed their entire lives.

Something that ought to be considered: If you have looked at the horrible news on TV over the last several months you would assume that the entire world has about gone mad.
Through a lot of reading both academic (sociology, and a few graduate level psychology classes exploring behavior at many levels, pastoral counseling etc.) and personal interest (Have read tons on psychology and human behavior)I have come to believe a simple analogy can be made. It is amazing how quickly and easily a large amount of the population can become sheep. Spend some time reading about mob mentality. It is scary stuff. The vast majority of people need leadership. If poor crazy (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)ed leaders are loud enough, they will quickly have an army of dolts capable of almost anything following
them.

From my observations in the last 50 years or so, I suspect that there are far more folks that are sociopathic than some might suggest. Far more.
Dealing with people in the construction field (workers, trades people, venders, customers, etc.), people involved in the world of education (everyone involved) and from working in municipal government,
I believe there are a ton, of people that go undiagnosed of various issues. There are people on the streets as I write this that do not belong in society. Lots of reason the country and world has evolved like this, and no real idea how to fix it.

It is a crazy world my friends and it is not getting better.

It’s from the turning away from God. No morals, accountable, it’s all about me no one else. That’s how we got to where we are today.

Thank you for the thought provoking question Mark. Thanks you for your answers James. I believe answers tell something about the person giving the answer.

All is well because we are not driving the bus

They're not nutcases, really, though the diagnosis is antisocial personality disorder. They don't have a conscience, and are incapable of love, affection, and other warm emotions. They do cause great harm, getting their kicks out of deceiving, manipulating, and cheating other people. Fortunately most don't become serial killers.

I'm convinced I ran into plenty of sociopaths during my law career.

Jim[/quote]

If a person doesn’t have a conscience and lacks empathy for others, I feel they have great potential to do physical harm to others. Would you want to sleep in the same room with one?

We all have a different definition of what " bad " actually is. For some, owning an electric appliance is a bad thing and for others, killing a human being that has a different belief is quite ok. The answer to that is somewhere in between I guess. A lot of the time defining what is and isn't bad has been defined by one religion or another. I for my part try to treat people like they treat me. Is that Bad ??? It can be but thats not up to me.

This unrest isnt new neither is the constant media exposure. I know some of you remember how we got the gun control act of 68

You are correct danny.
It's been unrestful for a very long time.
Makes you wonder about the next adventure in front of us.

Meanwhile, I like to trap and fish and get outdoors.
I'm an oddball these days anyway.
I just learned what fortnite is.
My grandkids think I'm pulling their teeth out when I say; "Let's go outside. Follow grandpa!"

I understand the implicit meaning of your comment above, but if you believe the almighty gave man free will, well son, we are in deed driving the proverbial bus.
If you do not believe that the almighty gave man free will, and that God is running the show, well then you and God have a lot of explaining to do.

Mac

Mac thats the part with the "mysterious ways" comes in is my guess.

We no longer have a nation and are not nationalistic we are falling apart. United we stand, divided we fall, we are failing on our own, no middle ground, we are setting our selves up for a big failure.

That here is a ZING.............................. I dedicate this Zing to Flyin Finn, I know your still here lol. WE ain't driving this bus, cause he is, but wait, he's not supposed to. Ok ok, I got it now. We drive the bus and he lets us know if we passed our exam??? Right?

The veneer of civilization is paper thin. Man is predatory by nature. A diet of animal protein is what allowed us to maximize our cranium capacity and gave us the spare time to design and build tools, to be more efficient hunters.
I believe that if a human infant is not loved an nurtured to fit into the “tribe” they will develop into what is commonly known as a sociopath. There are numerous and well documented cases of “wild children “ that somehow managed to survive without adults to rear them. They exhibit animalistic behavior but can be trained much like a dog to not bite a stranger or steal a sandwich from the table for example. They respond to training but not to conscience for they don’t have one.

I read a book about the Yano Mamo the last of the head hunters in the South American rainforest. By modern standards of civilization every one of them could be described as a sociopath.

I have no qualms about there being a Creator who is mysterious, but perhaps we need to define our terms.
Seems as though you deem mystery as unknowable and perhaps even silly? (I don't mean to speak for you. Just attempting to decipher your context).
There are many, as I, who proudly profess God is infinite and we are finite, and we're ok not being the know all.
Mystery to us is wondrous, yet intriguing.
So the term has two contexts.

Those who are don't believe in God, mock those that do sometimes, but that's ok because us trappers are mocked for killing innocent animals and folks not wearing masks are mocked for not caring about others, and.....

Well it's a long list.
My question then is;
Why do we mock those who don't think like us, talk like us, and believe what us believes in?

You see, Darwinism and the theory of evolution doesn't answer very many quality questions like this at all.
But Scripture does.

I'm still stuck on the mystery of why a grasshopper who jumps 500 times his height doesn't die when he comes back down?

Blessings
Mark

I think the devil is driving the bus in the world, and God is directing that bus to its final destination. The choice we have is whether we want to help drive the bus, or help in navigating.

It is a fruitless exercise to discuss evolution with a person that has a strong religious belief Mark. I have been down that rabbit hole a number of times and its just not worth it. I was not mocking your beliefs. But it mostly boils down to .... Ahh its not meant literally .... its how you interpret it ... and god works in mysterious ways ...... With that, scientific evidence just gets blindly pushed aside .... Ohh and then there is the old " something from nothing ' line. Heard it all to many times before and refuse to go down that path these days .... just not worth it. Training my dog is way more rewarding I find. I could explain the grass hopper to you but don't want to burst your mystery bubble

ATB

Michael

considering there's only a "speck" of difference between the Big Bang Theory (accepted Science) and the Bible's version of Creation, it hardly seems worth worrying about.




ooops...I said I was bowing out.

White, I meant that within the context of evolution.

Michael,

Well laid out. First, I don't discount evolution, as I'm a grad level biologist. A scientist to the core. I did my thesis in 1982 on the immutability of a particular invertebrate, so science is my middle name. I'm not sure why the confusion over the term mystery, (as in I don't know and I don't base my conclusions on what I can't know) when all of us are in complete mystery over much in life, true? For example, why is your dog obedient to you? Explain that to my complete and utter satisfaction. I offer, you can't. But your dog obeys, true? Kind of a mystery. Even though it's true. There's my point brother.

As for science, who said it gets pushed aside with Divine? I didn't. Most traditionalists in the faith don't either. There's a great publication called Arts and Sciences that's discusses the merging of the two. In fact, why wouldn't science enter into Creation? There are laws of science for sure (we think). My point always on Darwin is (well there's a couple) although he might propose in several large volumes the evolutionary theory, it does not give us "why" it happened the way Dr. Darwin(s) proposed. Wouldn't the why it happened be also important just as how it happened? Something from nothing? I kinda like the Big Bang theory of the book of Genesis myself as to why it happened.

There is much science actually in the areas of cosmetology, ontological, anthropology, morality, universalism, etc. that are very well laid out as to the existence of a Creator.
I would concur, there was a day when I would discount the talk of deity, and today I don't, so I hold no great truth in my hands.

People mock and discount the core religion upon which our nation was founded all the time. More each decade. That is absolutely true. Turn on the news today to see it in action.
I guess some of us are throw backs, and we pray the culture that is self-righteous doesn't tear down the churches for a while yet.

Oh, and as a Wildlife Biologist, with a grad degree in canid studies, I'd love to hear how these darn grasshoppers don't die upon re-entry! I think they are super cool, but then I've always been fascinated with things outdoors. Just ask my mom, she'll tell ya: that kid was always outside studying ants, or bats, or fish or some such!

Blessings to you!
Mark

Hey Mac,
Good to hear from you sir!
Hope all is well in God's country.

I have faith that the Creator is in charge.
The rest, to be honest, we humbly try and put the pegs in the proper holes.

Blessings!
Mark

Why you ask ........ IMHO Physics has killed Philosophy for the most part. It is unfortunate but I think its true. We can answer most of the "how" questions though in exchange. Even your grasshopper ..... one thinks there should be an answer within the science of biology. Alas most of the biology questions, when taken apart, boil down to physics. Along the way the " why" falls by the wayside for the most part.
Having said that, I will not be drawn into a discussion about religion ... been there done that and have the t shirt.

ATB

Michael

I grew up with a sociopath. You need to learn how to deal with them. They are pretty predictable. Never trust them or believe a word they say.

My question then is;
"Why do we mock those who don't think like us, talk like us, and believe what us believes in?"

You know as well as I, many that profess to be Christians mock non believers. They may dress it up a bit, but it happens all the time. It is kind of like the Southerner that can say simply horrible things about someone as long as the end the sentence "Well bless his heart."

Things are well in God's country.

Mark, I believe I have shared with you that I spent several years in study formally preparing to become ordained. During that time I was voracious in my reading of modern day Biblical scholars in addition to my formal studies, I simply was not blessed with money enough to go to seminary full time so did all of this will working and taking care of my business.
At the six year mark, I realized that I knew less than I did when I started.

I got to the point that I would shutter when I would hear some arrogant turd expound on what a great Christian they were, all the while dissing others on this forum and others. Many times I can remember that very thing happening and some self righteous dolt truly believing their picture was on God's refrigerator. I suspect the jerks will be greatly disappointed. The foundation of being a Christian includes a vast area, but being a nice person is certainly one of them.

I would feel angst when I would hear someone claim that if your prayed right, and lived right your prayers would be answered. Just total B.S. as any thinking person would have agreed and a great many Christians that lost those they prayed for.

All of the entire matter is a complete mystery. Period.
Mac

Because Murphy's law pre-dates Adam & Eve. lol

Why would someone base their decision regarding divinity on the actions of people?

Depends on which decision you're talking about, Mark.

Jim

Everyone does The bible was written y people. People tell you if you don't join their religion you will burn for eternity etc. Its not a god that does that, its people. Preachers make living with it.

Numerous posts here on TMan saying this, that, and the other about what this person did, that pastor said, and on and on.
Thus my prevoius question;
Why would someone base their decision regarding divinity on the actions of people?

Same logic would seem to be (if we're using logic at this point??)
If I met some goofball trapper, or a person doing a demo that's rather off the wall, or some trappers are involved in something out of the ordinary, or they tried to get me to give them money for something I didn't want to give them money for...
I quit trapping.

Naw. I just chalk it up to __________, and roll on.