Police Shooting----What is Your Opinion?

Murder.
He never even raised the gun, let alone point it at anyone.

Bad accident, why did the guy come charging out of the door with a gun? Not really a defensive move.

Bang on my door in the middle of the night, and you will be met with a gun too.....

^^^^^ I'll bet you wouldn't come charging out of the door blindly like that though. That was a dumb move on that guy's part at the very least.
In a situation like that you can't expect the cops to wait until the guy starts shooting first can you?

I suspect there may have been some alcohol involved which affected the guys better judgment. Tragic, but that's what happens sometimes.

I dont get the shot guy at all. Why would you walk out a door like a big ol target if you thought you needed to have a gun in hand? Why not take some kind of position inside and call 911?

it looks like that door had a peephole in the knocker. If the people beating on the door are standing where you cant see them, again, why open the door?

I suspect he wanted to be a tough guy. Now he is shot.

Why would you answer the door with a gun in hand when you already know it's the cops ?

Looks like he was blinded by the flash light , and was directly following orders by putting the gun down on the floor . Looks like he was shot before he could complete the request

That was a big mistake right there !

He may not have heard or been able to understand them say police is what I assumed.

That woman sure seemed to calm down in a hurry. whole thing is strange

Terrible for all involved. I'm not sure why you would come out the door like that in any circumstance. If you feel you are in danger enough to have your gun ready why open the door and step out. If I was expecting trouble I would keep the door shut and my gun inside with me. If I saw for sure it was the police I would not greet them at the door with my gun even though I have that right, it doesn't seem smart as jumpy as most cops are right now.

My home was raided by the ATF when I was 12. Couldn't understand anything. Just incoherent yelling.

The best defense is an aggressive offense......

I wonder how many lowlife in this country has been frightened off by just this approach.

Notice that there is a peephole in his door. He could have looked out and, seeing no one,.. ..he could have asked who it was, if he didn't hear.

Instead he comes out like a jerk ready to take a bite out of whoever was there.

How do you know he knew it was the cops, from outside you can hear them say phoenix police but that’s within a foot of their microphone. There’s no telling if the tv or radio was up loud inside. The guy may have just heard the knock, it looked to me like he was awful surprised it was the cops and made a point to raise his one arm and keep his gun down so he didn’t get shot.

I thought that cops are not supposed to drink while on the job.

Either way , I believe he was shot trying to comply ......bad deal for all

yes it does appear that way

I fully support the police. This is a great example why they need better training in order to be more successful. Mental, emotion in addition to tactical.

Walking out when you are unsure of the situation seems unwise, armed or not.

1 more second and the cop would have realized it too.

If the dude was black he would have gotten that extra second ........I suspect

Well, I can imagine that these cops' adrenaline is really pumping, and them being on edge. This guy comes out with gun behind his back... I'm sure they didn't want to shoot the guy at all. The cop that shot probably was thinking of his and his partners safety

2x. I agree.

I think the police had itchy trigger fingers. The guy was in the process of setting the handgun down in my opinion. I never saw him make an aggressive move with it. As far as coming to the door with it, their are too many unknowns. If it was loud inside, he may have only heard someone beating on the door. He probably looked through the peephole but the police stand to the side of that. It is his home and he has the right to defend himself. If all I hear is someone beating at the door, I'll be armed also. However, I wouldn't answer in the first place until I knew who was out there. I consider this a bad shoot and the police should be held accountable for it. Merely holding a gun is not a justifiable reason for being shot when that gun was not being used in a threating manor and I saw no threat in this video.

One other note, the guy calling 911 sounded like a real jerk. To me it sounded like he was mad because they were being loud and told the dispatch it was escalating just to get the police there when that was not the case. I'm doubting it was even a domestic, it didn't look that way. I hope the guy that started this mess thinks about it a little.

It's a bad shoot that will have no repercussions for the Officers involved. I normally lean towards the cops side but the guy was in the process of complying with commands. Officer should lose his job with comments that send him looking for another line of work.

On another note- Sounds like the neighbor swatted them.

Bad shoot, I live in the country and at night I answer the door with a gun, a lot of nuts out there. I also don't think he knew the cop on the right was there. That being said he should have stayed in his house.

you cant blame the cop for not waiting till he pointed it.

why would you go through a door if you thought someone dangerous was waiting on you? it makes no sense. i realize options are limited in an apartment to size up the threat from a different place so why would you go through the door if you felt threatened enough to want a gun in your hand?

jumpy cop met bonehead citizen. same old story same old outcome

I disagree. The guy was being passive as soon as he realized it was the police. He had his had up and was in the process of squatting to set the gun on the floor when he was shot. I have answered the door at night with a gun in the small of my back when I wasn't expecting anyone (not in my hand). There are plenty of crazy people out there, he was in his own home and had every right regardless if you agree. I would charge the police that shot with manslaughter from the evidence I saw in the video.

As A cutizan it is your right to make bone head decisions. As a free citizen it is his right to come out his door any way he wants.
This was a Hit, assasination or murder. There is absolutely no way to justify shooting the guy, no way.

I've watched this several times now and never hear them tell him to put the gun down. They just keep saying Hands Hands Hands. Which is what he should have done. Put his hands in the air, and then notified the police that he was armed.

Tough call. He probably was too aggressive.

I have watched it several times and there is something not right about the filming? There are only two police there right?

Looks like the guy expected to find a grumpy neighbor that had pounded on the door because of the loud noise coming from the apartment . I bet he's had neighbors complain to him before and he was going out to show the neighbor who is the boss. I usually back the police but not this one with the victim going to the ground and hands out as ordered. IMO.

Couldn't tell if both cops shot or not , if both cops fired on that man, then that man and both cops are idiots.

He did not just open the door, he came out of the room in an aggressive manor. He is in the hall way, he is not protecting his property.
The tape will have a great bearing on the case. At the end of the day he is still not longer with us.

Seems pretty simple....cops knock on your door and say police and he comes flying out with a pistol in hand...not sure what is confusing about this? That is a sure fire way to get shot 100% of the time. Does anyone one here answer their door in this way when the cops stop by. sounds like there is more to the story than he was up past bed time. Hiding a gun behind his back and falling back to the door after acting aggressive...most likely would have got back inside the door and started shooting or a million other bad things...potential hostage situations....who knows! There is always way more to story than a video clip...i dont understand how anyone thinks they can judge officers in situations from the comfort of their home. Looks like there was a threat with a weapon and it was neutralized. If he was to go inside and started shooting from cover everyone on here would say the cops should have shot him from the start....

So anyone with a gun should be deemed a threat and shot on site ......lol

For all that are 100% behind the cops on this, if the cops did it right and they feared for their lives then why did they wait till the guy was one hand up and going to the ground to shoot him? Do you think the guy was kneeling to get into a prone position to get a better aim to shoot the officers, LMAO

Nope I have guns and have not been shot by the police....of course i dont come running out my door at them with a gun in my hand either....

I could not disagree more.

Agreed and I pointed that out also.

Maybe someone should volunteer for the police department and show them how it should be done, im sure they would love for someone else to go first and demonstrate since he obviously was not a threat.

I think you should take a step back for a second and look at things logically, objectively, without your pre-drawn conclusions and bias.

Im just saying...its always easy to judge when youre not there.

I get tired of listening to people judge police officers from the safety of their home. If people think they can do better than they should join the force and show all these officers the correct way to deal with these situations 100 percent of the time. Does anyone on here actually believe they can predict the future and would be able to make perfectly calculated decisions 100% of the time in a split second in situations like this one?

Very valid point as I had the luxury of safety and 20-20 hind sight because of the video .

Some do that I agree. However, to be a police officer, you should be a cut above. No one is forcing them to do that job. They want to do that job. Additionally, that job gives a police officer great power. The power to strip that person of his rights so long as it's justified. That power should not be looked at lightly and police need to be held to the highest standard. Not all cops are bad but by the same token, not all cops are good either.

It was a bad shoot. I am very pro police officer. I have been in similar situations and have employed a lot of people, including many police officers, who have been in similar situations, who did not shoot. The officer who initially shot, should be charged with manslaughter and spend some time in jail.

Keith

The site it's from, the shooting it's self and her reaction I just have to wonder.

I'll look into that later. I didn't question it being fake but who knows these days.

I agree no one is forcing them to be a police officer. But they also don't have the option to just leave a situation either. Im glad its not my job. Id hate to be so scrutinized by the public as bad as they are. Id be curious to see what our opinions would be after a full investigation.

How does this go from a police body cam to YouTube? Is it even real?

Yup, and with more evidence, things could change. That's the correct way to look at things in my opinion. You have to look at the evidence you have and leave bias behind.

Well, for doing a little searching, it seems that this did happen last month around July 15th or so. It also seems that the victim was a stand up guy and pro police. (all of this from articles) One thing I did not find like the average BLM martyr is any rap sheet. The guy doesn't seem to have any record at all. Humm....... where are all the white lives matter protest's? Where is the rioting and the looting? Hummmmm.........

It's real. It happened May 22, 2020 in Phoenix Arizona. The Police Dept. just released the video last month on July 15th.

There are two body cams, no third camera.

It sounds like the upstairs neighbor new it wasn't a domestic dispute but wanted the noise of the video game and the victim and his girlfriend to stop.

When he called 911 the second time and was asked if he thought it was turning violent he said, "It could be physical. I could say yeah if that makes anybody hurry on up. Get anybody here faster."

An innocent man is dead because a trigger happy cop shot him three times in the back as he was trying to comply with the cops orders.

How anybody can justify that shooting is beyond me.

Also, the cops knocked then stepped away from the door. If the victim used the peephole he would have seen nothing. He would have heard banging on his door and looked out and saw nothing which explains why he rushed out to see who was banging on his door.

He likely didn't here them identify themselves as cops.

As soon as he realized they were cops he raised his empty hand and was attempting to put the gun down with the other when Mr. Trigger Happy murdered him.

Another point of view, IF he and his girl friend would not have been making so much noise that the police would not have to have been called and he would still be alive to day. Split second judgement have to be made and the lawyers have month to go over the judgment that was made. JMO to bad in any case.

Ok. Now I understand. Don't live in your own home and make the mistake of being to loud. If you wind up dead because of it, it's your fault. Got it. You have watched the video correct? The same video I have watched I assume? Could you please point out the moment in the video (by time stamp) where this guy threatens the police. Can you please point out where he is pointing a firearm at anyone? I see a guy that answered the door after someone was pounding on it. Had a light shined in his eyes, and the was barked orders at. After a couple seconds, he figured out it was the police, began to comply and was then shot. Can you please post on the video time stamps where I am wrong?

Lets look at this as if it were a training exercise. Scenerio 1 - Suspect storms out hides his gun behind his back and then complys when cops pull a gun on him...nothing happens and suspect is detained. Scenerio 2 - Suspect storms out with hides gun behind his back and gets shot. Scenerio 3 - Suspect comes storming out with gun hides it behind his back to buy himself time to fall back towards his door and then opens fire on 2 cops while they refrained until shots are fired at them. One cop is dead other is wounded and shooter is on the loose....all 3 scenerios are very likely possibilities. Which one is going to happen. Now everyone here has to decide that right now in the next one second what to do...

Or #4 police give commands, the guy starts to follow them and is shot anyway. Show me where this did not happen PLEASE!

Why did he hide it behind his back?

^^^This^^^
It also appears the the victim expected someone other than the police to be at the door, like the neighbor perhaps? I'm guessing this wasn't the first time these two neighbors had butted heads. Regardless, the man is holding his hand up and going to his knees as he is shot multiple times.

Who cares. When did he threaten the officers? That's the question. When did this become a justifiable homicide? From the evidence presented, it wasn't. You have to look at the evidence, not feelings, or conjecture or what if's. The video is right there. What do you see?

I think this is interesting the different opinions on this though. Neither are necessarily right or wrong. And we have time to think about it all in slow motion and we still cant agree lol

Some of you seem to have an awful lot invested in proving your "opinion" correct.

I won't bother to give mine, I don't want to take a million posts to defend it, geez.

Terribly sad situation for all involved.

Looks like he was starting to kneel and comply with the officers to me. On the other hand I'm not sure I would want to give a guy holding a gun enough time to raise it and shoot me.

Will you please defend your opinion that you do not wish to give and opinion because in my opinion, that's the wrong opinion

I'm not playing along.

Is that opinion or fact?

Hey me and finster are having a debate! Keep your lack of opinion out if this! Hahahaha

It's not illegal to hold a gun. The police officers did not even know if a crime had been committed. Even if a a domestic violence crime had been committed, the police can't shoot someone for just holding a gun. Police can't just shoot people they come in contact with, because they're holding a gun and the police officer is scared.

Keith

I can't tell if both cops fired. Anyone ??

I am also wondering if the cop who fired from behind him can actually see the guys right hand ??

The only officer shooting that I see is the one behind him. 3 shots and it seems that he is the only one showing recoil. By the shooting officers cam, I cannot really see the victims right hand. You can clearly see it by the other officers cam. Not being able to see the victims hand in my opinion would be worse. Now you are shooting someone on a guess? That's some pretty poor decision making. The officer that fired, in my opinion, should be brought up on manslaughter charges. It's not murder, it's not justifiable homicide and it's not involuntary manslaughter. Manslaughter seems to fit here and he should do some time. If I was on the grand jury with evidence here, I would vote to have him indicted.

Sure they can, they did in that video and people here say it's cool.

Did he drop the gun or was it still in his hand when shot.

Video doesn't show that I can see. What the video does show is that it was never pointed at any officer or even brought forward for that matter.

According to the articles I read only one cop fired. He fired three shots, two of which struck the victim in the back and killed him.

Thanks !

I also think that the guy who called the police in the first place should be investigated and if it turns out he was reporting false information, he should be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

replaying it over and over it looks like the cop with the light shot first, the dead guy is pushed backward (not kneeling but dying) and the second cop fired repeatedly. Need the autopsy to see if that impression is true.

Cancels my opinion


Is it normal for cops to bang a door then hide?

If you heard a commotion outside and looked through the peeper and saw nothing would you assume it was police? Would assume all was well? Nothing seen, nothing wrong?

No way ! He had no way to anticipate how any of the individuals would respond AND he was not present,

That's what "Involuntary manslaughter" is. By your actions, you set in motion an event, a chain of events that cause the death of another person. So, if they guy was lying about a domestic assault and the police showed up with that in mind expecting violence, well then that would be for a jury to decide whether or not the callers actions contributed to his death. For instance, if I fix the brakes on your car and I screw it up. You drive down a mountain road and because the brakes don't work you go airborne off of a cliff, I just committed involuntary manslaughter. By not fixing your brakes correctly, I caused your death. I didn't mean for you to drive off that cliff but because of my actions you did. Or possibly negligent homicide with my example but we are splitting hairs. You get what I'm saying.

I don't think the guy who made the semi fraudulent call can be charged with manslaughter. He can definitely lose a torts case.

Keith

From what I heard it was pretty obvious the neighbor did NOT want to say "domestic violence" was occurring

Well he could be civilly sued for sure but if I was the DA, I would be looking into what happened because of his actions. Knowingly making a false report to 911 is akin to filing a false police report, a misdemeanor. The guy himhawed around awhile on 911 but eventually said that they were fighting, doors were slamming and what not. In other words, it seems that he was getting frustrated and made things sound much worse just to get the police there faster. The evidence of the false reporting is when he asked that if they were in a physical fight, would it get the police there faster? If I were the DA, I would be looking into it.

You'll know his superior officer thinks it's a bad shoot after the dust settles. Once all the investigations and lawsuits are over, that officer will be looking for another job the next county over. That's how these bad judgement shootings go.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...olice-shooting-ryan-whitaker/5459142002/

From the article:


Nees, who is several feet away from Whitaker at this point, asks the officer if he could handcuff her so she could be near her boyfriend.

After the officer says no, she asks if Ferragamo could check if Whitaker was OK.

"I'm leaning toward the fact that he's not," Ferragamo responds.


Ferragamo's response seems pretty flippant.

The argument will be made that such charge would deter crime reporting. This is already an issue in some communities and starting down this road would most definitely make it worse.


The gun is immaterial, the guy would have been shot if he was holding a TV remote.

I agree that, any defense would broach that issue and even the DA might use it as an excuse not to look at the case. However, in my mind, a man is dead and it all started with two calls to 911 and a lie that said a domestic was escalating. The officer while in my opinion is guilty of manslaughter he was the tool but the caller started the events while committing a crime himself if that can be proven. I'm not saying it will happen by any means. I'm saying in a fair and equally just world, the caller should be investigated. Although I do agree, I doubt it will happen.

The victim was raising one hand and lowering himself to the ground but the other hand still appeared to be on the gun. I believe the hand on the gun was his mistake.

I support the police 100% but in this case I think the police over-reacted. I hate to say it but possibly involuntary manslaughter.

Why isn’t this in the news? Because the victim is white.

1) I think the guy was a dumb (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) but 2) from what I can see he doesn't deserve to be a dead dumb (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)

I’m curious if the caller paid a visit prior to the call. If he didn’t, he is definitely a tool.

Involuntary manslaughter doesn't fit. To be involuntary, it would have to be an accident. This was no accidental shooting. It was not murder either since there was no motive, no aforethought not even moral turpitude. Manslaughter seems like the only real fit and I could see the DA pleading it down to negligent homicide.if the officer is charged at all. One thing is for sure. The guy should not have a badge with the evidence I have seen.

I'm doubting it or I think the guy would have mentioned it on the 911 call. Although that's noting more than an educated guess. No evidence either way.

The guy didn’t want to get an $800 gun scratched up by dropping it, is why they shot him.

You know why it isn’t in the news, no marches and no week of funerals.

I keep forgetting in some places people count on somebody else to do their bidding for everything.

Why would anybody run out with a gun in their gun hand over somebody banging on the door and running off? Which is what the girlfriend said they thought was going on.

The cops thought somebody might be smacking his partner around so they don't stand in front of the door. They yell police and figure the occupants hear them.

Nut job runs out with a gun to show the kids knocking on the door and running off how tough he is.

Cop see's a nut with a gun.

How many of you are going to run out your front door, gun in hand, because somebody bangs on the door? Guy had a Rambo complex. He did not need killing but I can see how it happened. If I think a gun fight is about to start, but I have the drop on the other guy, I'm not going to assume its a scene from a movie where two people are going to stand with guns pointed at each other talking instead of shooting.

I disagree. Who knows what's going on these days. For all you know it could be a BLM mob with the wrong address, someone waiting for the door to open, force their way in for a home invasion, a hopped up meth head, it could be any number of things. He wasn't living in Mayberry. he was living in the 4th largest city in the country. I would be armed also, just not in my hands. Then again, without being able to see who was there, I would have not opened the door in the first place but that's another matter.

I think we all agree that running outside with a gun in his hand was a bonehead move.

It may have been dumb but it wasn't illegal and in no way excuses the cop for firing three shots at an individual who is kneeling with one hand up, laying down his weapon and trying to comply with shouted orders.

I know this is going to come across like a smart arse comment but that's not my intention, honestly, incidents of poor judgement around firearms are far more likely in a society strong on gun rights and practices.

Okay?

If you do not act the way I would have or deem appropriate, then you don't need killin, But, heck its alright? Danny a man is dead for no reason. A man shot another man in the back. We should be lookin for a tree and a rope.

Things sure have changed. Twenty-five years ago I went to a friends house because he was intoxicated and talking suicide. I got there to see him on the back deck with a shotgun in his mouth. He took it out long enough to shout at me to not come any closer. As he went to reposition the gun fired, kicked and caused him to fall. He scrabbled to get up and pump another shell but I was on him. We wrestled with the gun once it was clear of everything I reached down and pulled the trigger. That’s 2 shotgun blast in a matter of seconds 11:30 or so at night. The police had been notified as I left my house so now I’m just hanging on to him waiting for them to show up.

After about 10 mins the phone rings. I talked him into walking in the house with me to answer the phone. It’s my wife, I ask if “help” was on the way and she informs me they are there sitting in the driveway, LISTENING to what is going on behind the house. I said they might want to come to the door now. lol I can laugh about it today but at the time I could have used some help as my friend wasn’t feeling any pain. That is until the next day when he called and asked what happen to his shoulder and where did all the splinters come from.

I suppose today they just would have rushed up and shot us both.

^^^^^^
I know of an incident 10 years ago where two young guys (drunk friends) were arguing over a cigarette lighter. One of the guys shoots the other in the leg with a 22. It's 4AM, someone else at the house calls the local cop. The cop told me he didn't show up until 8AM in order to give everyone a little time to sober up, as he didn't want to get shot and he didn't want anyone else to get hurt.
This was in a small town in Alaska; too bad law enforcement everywhere can't operate with that kind of discretion and wisdom. It seems like a good percentage of cops nowadays are looking for an excuse to go in with guns blazing.

This is how I see it too. ^^ More than one mistake was made here. The guy answering the door could definitely have played that smarter than that...but I also don't see where the cop was right to shoot him. Did the cops announce that they were cops?

the whole world could use a little more Andy,and a little less Barney.

Is Gomer where you come in?

more like that lil crazy woods dude that married Charlene.can't believe i can't remember his name.

They did announce that they were "Phoenix Police" when they knocked on the door. They then stepped away from the front of the door (for there own safety) and therefore would not have been visible if the victim used the peephole.

I don't think he heard them announce themselves. I think he heard the knocking, looked out and saw no one then rushed out to see who was banging on his door. As soon as he realized they were police he went from offensive to compliant. He raised his empty hand while kneeling to lay his handgun down with the other hand. That is when the cop behind him fired three shots. At least two of the shots hit him in the back and killed him.

Dud Wash

Ernest T. Bass

How is that guy not weeded out at the academy?

Perhaps they need to have a periodical psychological review.

When there is no war going on there are some things the Military won’t overlook, so I’m told.

Nope, she had a romance with Ernest and one with Andy but ended up marrying Dud Wash, had a kid with him.

I dint have sound on my computer , so just saw the tape, only watched it once---- I see a guy come out with something in his hand, the guy he was looking at must have said something and as the guy started to kneel down, his left hand starting to raise up as to comply-

Cop behind him shoots him in the back- / Sad to say that the back shooter will say that he was protecting his partner , so it's all right. And the Police that will investigate their own will find the same-

Be Kind to Others ![b][/b]

I’ve watched it several times. It appears that the suspect locked in on the primary officer and never even noticed the secondary flanking the door. I wish I could see the suspects right hand just before shots being fired. I’ve seen people appear to be compliant only to try and get you to drop your guard. It’s very possible he was drawing the weapon as he appeared to be complying and just had bad situational awareness, overlooking the officer right behind him. I don’t believe you can take that video at face value and I can guarantee the officer didn’t want to have to shoot the guy.

I disagree. You're seeing what the officers were seeing almost 100%. That camera is worn about 8 inches down from their eyes on the upper part of the shirt usually. Chances are, that's exactly what the officer was seeing.

Ernest was the rock thrower wasn't he?i believe i'm a good fit for Ernest T.

definately failed on my Otis imitation.

I think you’re wrong. Whatever the reason, too much news, problems at home, daughter hanging with the wrong crowd, that officer has been waiting for an opportunity to fire his weapon at a live target.

The body cams are worn on the chest. It gives you the perspective seen by the officer but not exactly what the officer sees and its ridiculous to think that the officer has been waiting to shoot someone. I worked narcotics and SRT for years. There’s more to the story is all I’m saying. The video only shows part of what’s happening.

Charlene's brothers would be fun to sit around a campfire with.bet they'd let loose a lil if'n ya got em away from the ol man.

Is there currently anyone in jail that wore a badge?

It’s ridiculous to think that every cop on patrol isn’t looking for an opportunity to fire his weapon.

There’s idiots in every profession. That’s not to say the secondary officer was just wanting to smoke someone. As far as your question goes, I have no idea if the officer is in jail. I’m guessing that’s going to be up to a jury.

His comment to the gf afterwards shows exactly how distraught he was over having to fire his weapon.

The guy had a boner as soon as he saw the guy had something in his hand. As I stated earlier it could have been a tv remote and he still would have been shot.

Looks like 1 cop shot him 3 times In back , definately watch out around cops. U don't have to have a gun in hand. 1 morning when up early go to ita convention, 2 sheriff deputies knock my door, say had 911 disturbance call here or close. I knew nothing of it, crazy , I had 1 hand with fingers in pocket a lil, cop about pull gun out, could been shot, they shoot u over nothing, a false move in dark, watch out, gung ho, they don't get job for no reason, some like bevable show force.

Are we watching different videos or am I confused? By the "officer behind him" do you mean the officer to the right of the doorway if you were in the hall looking at the door? If so, that is the ONLY video I saw the gun in, with the suspect reaching for it right after he was told to put his hands in the air.

Lot bad killer cops around like that, like I say, don't got have gun or knife to get shot by cop, all stuff u see go on Huns, when buy muzzloader. Plenty interrest handgun sales an next day when got black powder accessories, bunch hot heads check out handguns for conceal carry, one them almost push me out way

Sometimes I can. This time I can't. Translation into English please? Does anyone know what Dave's native language is? Tman is a diverse community, maybe we can hook him up with someone who knows his native language and can teach him ours?

If you read his muzzle loader thread you probably would.

Being a gun owner carries responsibility. A responsible person doesn't run into a hallway, gun in hand, to scare off what he thinks are kids pranking him. He should not have been shot but I get why that cops self preservation bell rang.

The video where the UNARMED drunk guy got shot? There is a case for criminal prosecution

That is the video I saw. But I didn't see the victim "reaching" for a gun at any point. After rushing out into the hallway and realizing it was cops banging on his door I saw him quickly kneel, raise his free hand (complying with shouted orders of "HANDS, HANDS, HANDS") and begin to lay the weapon down with his other hand. The gun was in his hand when he initially entered the hallway.

He was shot in the back as he was attempting to comply with the cop's shouted orders.

gotta admit that Charlene was a hottie with the voice of a angel.

If he really didn't hear them say they were cops, he should have asked who it was before he opened the door.

I didn't think he came out necessarily in an aggressive manner. More like he just opened the door with a gun in his hand. He seemed surprised that it was the police. In this case, having the gun in his hand is what caused his death. What were the police to do, wait until he shot at them first? They had no way of knowing what his intentions were. I feel their actions were justified.

So anytime you have a gun in your hand a cop is justified in shooting you? I only ask as I imagine being a trapper you may have a gun in your hand often.

When dispatch comes back identifying you as a CC during a traffic stop are they to demand that you throw your gun out the window because they don’t know what your intentions are? Maybe they shout at you a couple times and then let you have it through the back glass when they can’t see your hands.

The line needs to be thicker than it currently is.

lol, I just pictured a trapper hearing sirens and throwing his revolver in the creek.

Hobbie, You just put a picture in my head that really puts it in perspective. I do know of a family of poachers that have a gun that has hit the ditch many times. Them knuckle heads used to brag about how many times that gun had been tossed out the window at speed and survived.
As for your comment about the CC, I will likely get shot before my Les Bear gets tossed out the window. Would you please send condolences to my wife and kids when it happens.

Can do. You got any pictures so I can make sure I’m condolencing the right gal?

Ya true, walking up to ur door an answear with gun Behind u, pretty risky on ur life if cops

So much for a man’s home being his castle.

Out here in the country if you knock on a door at night you can expect that whoever comes to the door is not “alone”.

If you think your life may be in danger why would you open the door and run out setting yourself up to be killed?

Girlfriend said someone else had beat on the door and run off a few days earlier.

How many of you did thyat when you were kids.

Th e idiot was trying t o scare someone. He accomplished that and now he is dead.

Andrew I do not believe for a second you would run out of a door like that.

Not a good idea to with cops, can be bad without gun, from my experience. If u are doing nothing,wrong, dont mess cops , can be bad news sometimes. Things can get rough real quick

You would be correct Danny. I have however answered the door with a pistol in my hand numerous times. Yet to use a pistol at the door, even when that crackhead had the ball bat, but I usually have one just in case. I was merely pointing out the idiocy of saying the cops was justified because he had a gun. I would expect most of us on this sight carry a gun quite often, I don't think a cop would be justified shooting anyone just because they have a gun in hand and the cop doesn't know your intentions.

Welcome to trapperman, coonman.

When did he run out his front door ?

More of a labored, staggering stumble in my estimation.

I am wondering if the cop that did the shooting was thinking, "Oh, I'm not falling for the ole, let me bend down to lay my pistol on the ground, then shoot the cop trick."

Using that logic there is no one they can’t shoot if they want to.

Well like say. Not to cool to answear door to cop with gun in hand. Unless I knew who was. I doubt answear. Door at nite.

Yup,,almost as sneaky as the old "suspect appears to be unarmed with his hands on his head,,but then pulls a rifle out of each ear and shoots all the cops" trick.