LA evicting church

From a parking lot Grace Community Church has leased & used for over 40 years.
Why? because John MacArthur (a favorite of mine) and the churchs board decided to hold church even though Ca Gov banned any church gatherings. Case has gone before the courts, the courts decided in favor of the church.
Now LA is evicting the church.

Emails are included in the article below

https://www.toddstarnes.com/faith/l...J4AJTfYMdgWbbKJ25_bb6vVv8RW57pc6wbyPdCro

Render to Caesar what is Caesars.

I'm not sure what you mean by that Mark.Could you please explain a bit more than that.Or add more to that so I can understand exactly what you mean.I would sure appreciate that.Thanks

A Godless country is not a country.

The article states;
"For the past 45 years Grace Community Church has leased a large portion of its parking lot from Los Angeles County."

Jesus answered this type of question, so I'm sticking with the Messiah's answer to these types of questions. If the county owns it, let them have it. Move ahead with the Gospel of the Incarnate Man who answered this question almost 2,000 years ago;

Matthew 22:15-22
Then the Pharisees (the proponents of the Law who had not abandoned Jerusalem as the Essens had) went and plotted together how they might trap Him in what He said.
And they sent their disciples to Him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that You are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and defer to no one; for You are not partial to any. “Tell us then, what do You think? Is it lawful to give a poll-tax to Caesar, or not?”
But Jesus perceived their malice, and said, “Why are you testing Me, you hypocrites?
“Show Me the coin used for the poll-tax.” And they brought Him a denarius.
And He said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?”
They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” Then He *said to them, “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.”
And hearing this, they were amazed, and leaving Him, they went away.


The American church squabbles over things that don't matter near as much as the Gospel.
They need to focus.

Blessings,
Mark

Well said Mark!

I heard about this to Adam. This church is unlike most churches. Most churches and their leaders tremble like Saul's army when facing giants. The giant in this case being CA government and it's insistence on minimizing and/or eliminating the God given right to worship. Good to see a church with the heart of David and the faith that God will win in the end.

Exactly Mark and J.
When I first saw them announce their defiance my heart and soul rejoiced loudly. If you guys haven't seen John MacArthur make the announcement you should.

I'm surprised more churches aren't taking a stance and it's taken this long.

Mark June,
I would beg to differ with you a little. Caesar was a monarch, we don't live under a monarchy but a democratic republic, the people are in power. We have a Constitution, I think it is within this churches rights and maybe even their obligation to defend their position.

If you want to debate whether or not a populist lead government is within God's plan then that is a different argument; we might agree on that issue.

Render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar. But also, we must obey God and not man. when Caesar says you can't meet as a church, you tell Caesar to stick it where the sun don't shine.

waggler,

Humbly offered brother. I see your point.
Stand firm if talking a civil case perhaps.
A Gospel stance, no way.

The Pharisees were the pious, stanch religious of their day. We still have their brethren in our modern church, so Jesus' Words are very helpful to direct His Bride.
My point is; The Gospel's primary focus is loving God, and loving each other.
If that's what this is all about, great.
If not, let's regroup.

Blessings,
Mark

+1

I believe what Jesus was referring to was that his followers should obey the governments that God allows to be over us currently as long as those governments do not force its citizens to violate God's laws/principles.

Hebrews does say that we should not forsake the gathering together but what CA has mandated doesn't prohibit that strictly just with some limitations. There are easy work arounds.

Amen

I listen to John MacArthur almost every Sunday on Bott radio. Great man and a great preacher. I hope the best for him and his church.

Pike, Ca has banned ALL worship and church services. It prevents the church from the being the church, they can't gather, worship, mourn, pray or celebrate as a church, the 1st ammendment says they can freely worship.

Go to the video posted on July 31. He spells it out
https://m.facebook.com/gracecomchurch/

So I can go shop in a Walmart but can't worship inside a church. You can hide behind the cross, but you shouldn't cower. Hard to make disciples when your shaking in your armor from fear of the giants before you.

I can't believe this is really happening.

It will be interesting to see how parking cars fairs out.

They didnit ban worship. Your most important congregation are those in your home.

Good thing everybody didn’t feel this way or we’d still be in England! lol

I think the main issue here is the very beginning. Why is the church renting from the county? $8,000 a month? Maybe now they can use that money to find their own place of worship with an appropriate parking lot. The courts didn’t rule against them. The county took back what was theirs. Must not have had a lease agreement. This is a road block for the church, but they need to keep fighting. But apparently that starts with finding a new parking lot.

Hobbie Trapper,
As I'm sure you know, this country was founded by Puritan pilgrims, who were dissatisfied with the Anglican Church and their own persecution for attempting to maintain traditional values in England. So they fled at great cost to them and theirs. America was to be their "New Eden." A new "City on the Hill," as Augustine in the 4th century had earlier written about. I think the Puritan goal and the parking lot in LA are not related in the least, else the LA church (they publish orthodox doctrinal statements) would seek other options. Render to LA what is LA's and to God what is God's.

Howell Bros has a good point. The church isn't barred from worshiping. They just have to move. So be it.

Blessings,
Mark

This is the Christian haters in Cal. finding a legal way to put churches out of business, simple as that. They are not yet ready to bring persecution directly, so they are pretending it's about the "pandemic."

Christ's message was for the religious leaders (so they called themselves in Jerusalem) to turn their gaze to God and follow Him, and stop arguing about all that did not matter to God. Do we think God worries about who owns a parking lot in LA? When we turn to confront haters with equal vile, this is not in any way biblical (but many have done this historically in the name of "god.")

I pray the church does well, rebounds strong, and forges ahead with an eye to God's Word, and stop worrying about haters.

Jesus' Words are given so that we may know the Will of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

There are good people in this church and they will emerge ok.

Blessings,
Mark

When you are forced to go from the living room to the cellar will you see that as a prohibition on your right to freely practice your religion?

I agree. They did ban corporate worship.

That would be in violation of our rights as citizens, if it's in fact true.

We live in an age where bigger is better. Maybe sometimes a church just gets more corruption in it than is workable. Or maybe it is just as pure as possibly can be on earth. They have become complacent and lazy and concentrate on building their barns bigger to hold there goods. Just maybe God is saying get off your recliners and spread the gospel to the lost world. Many times in past God has used the Godless to direct His people when they would not listen. Down sizing wasn't bad in Gideon's case and surely the fight ahead is no different. So maybe the people have become lazy and just won't budge and God uses the lost to tell His congregation; you don't like to exercise then here, start by walking to church, lol.

A part of the issue is the church's size (building, employees, members, guests etc...). It's a roadblock and an overreach. Part of satan's plan to get rid of the church.
It's apparent there's a lease agreement as there is a monthly payment made.
It's common for a lot of churches in America to lease or use other parking lots.

The city dropping the lease on the parking lot was in retaliation for the churches refusal to not gather to worship. Jesus himself used force to drive those away who defiled God's house. This church is using the Constitution to thwart CA's wish to remove places of worship. There may come a time to do as Jesus did in removing those who wish to remove God by not allowing the right to gather and worship.

It is true. Ca governor banned worship entirely, regardless at home or in a non house building.
That's why the church and the board took the stance they did. They are gathering as usual now.
Other churches have sued the governor too.

Who in their right mind would build a big church without a parking lot? I know of a little village about 10 mi from here, population 549. They have a very old church surrounded by houses. Then one day a couple of Deacons got to doing some brain storming and decided to add on a gymnasium that would also serve as a dinning hall for special events. They didn't want to move because the old church had been in their families for years. They had no room to expand except their parking lot, which they did. That left virtually no place to park except on the streets. The only room between the church and the street is the side walk. Now when they have a singing and feed about once a month they get all the neighbors in an uproar over blocking their drive ways. Where is the planning when it comes to these things. Making your neighbors mad is not good business.

Adam, I think the fearest giant of all, the Johnson Amendment, keeps many unaware of these things which are going on. Pastors want preach on anything perceived political even when it directly attacks the body of believers.

I believe that it is also two separate issues. First is gathering in worship. Which the word requires. So standing against Caesar in that I agree with, however the Spirit directs. The family is certainly the starting point, but the Spirit may direct some to do one thing and another to do something altogether different. We are all different parts of the body called to different tasks. However, I also agree with Mark as to give to Caesar what is Caesar as far as a parking lot, or building, or anything tangible. The Lord can and will honor and provide. What is vital is we follow where we are called and maintain unity...: to HIS glory.

J Staton, I didn't know about the Johnson Amendment. That is absolutely wild the IRS can penalize a church for speaking about elections or a political issue they deem too political. Hopefully the IRS isn't going over MacArthur's sermons as we speak. Because they would fine the church. Although to be fair MacArthur doesn't like to preach about political events or politics unless it's directly tied the sermon and context.
He along with other pastors/ churches are speaking out against Corona virus.

If church turns back it's 501 -3c the pastor can preach on anything the pastor see's as needed.
That is the agreement made when a 501-3c applied for . This my understanding at least .

I think you are right. That's why it's the fiercest giant the church faces. lol

That's not quite accurate Captain.

CaptGus yes I hold more to calvinist/reformed theological views. But that's a topic for another day.
The issue at hand is California's governor has accomplished what many states and certain groups have been trying to do for centuries, which is forbidding the church from gathering or practicing. This California law even bans in home bible studies. And since the church has won its court cases LA is using an ace in the pocket.

I don't know why John MacArthur is so wound up about this; why doesn't he just accept it as being predestined? He is a Calvinist after all.

Predestination is not exactly calvinistic lol nor is free choice necessary makes a armeilist (maybe sp.)

That is not how it works. But that is a whole different topic.

^^^^^^
What he said.

Is God Omniscient? If so are we not predestined when it pertains to God's understanding?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The first sentence of the first amendment tells it all. A church signing a 501c3 is absolutely mind boggling to me. Genesis 9,6 is a directive of government given to man by GOD! And these so called preachers sign these things so they can't talk or preach about government which GOD gave to man.