'winner' of 2020 POTUS?

Will we know the winner of the 2020 POTUS election before 2021? Seems to me the 'declared winner' will be the result of some process (set out by the constitution) other than the election/electoral result. The constitution sets out quite a few options to declare the winner if states refuse to provide election results/designate election winner of their electoral votes.

What say U?

Please keep it on the topic and not on individual politics, thank you.

Yea, we’ll know. We know now. America better get ready even temporarily for the nightmare of President Pelosi. Either side, most likely in this case the Democrat party will tie things up in the courts, as already promised. A contested election gone long enough will result in the Speaker of the House assuming the Presidency. Sadly, I think that our Constitution will be stretched and tested very soon. Find the facts, check them and keep our eyes open.



Owl

I say, “I looking for a reason to declare war on the communist trying to take over the country. I’m praying they come to their senses but if they don’t, give us a reason that’s better than our guilt.”

I have no guilt.

Like I told a buddy today... I understand "absentee voting" but "voting by mail" is another deal. I vote by mail because I live in Europe.

As said here recently, if you can't take the time to vote properly as we always have, then you shoudn't vote.

Pete

Exactly why the Democrats want mail-in voting so they can contest it and hold it up and put Pelosi in office as an interim president

I think not!
I actually saw a "Nebraskans for Biden" sign in town this morning. Very close to the house.

Is voting by mail even legal? Not talking about absentee voting. Who decided it's legal to do it instead of going to the polls?

I think its very unlikely that we will know for weeks after the election. Look at what they are trying to do in Maine...

You would have no guilt over killing a kid that was formally an American?

But a questions I’ve not been able to answer. Being constitutionally appointed as interim and not actually elected by the people, does she (the Speaker of the House) get the full powers of the Presidency? Is there a time limit to the appointment or could she(the Speaker of the House) conceivably be President for four years until there is an non-contested election? Does anyone know the answer to these questions?



Owl

She’ll be toothless with a republican majority in the house and senate.

Wait.......Will she even be Speaker with a republican majority in the house?

The democrats will contest all the other smaller offices that are even remotely close, that are being voted on too.

Keith

First point of business!!!!

The Constitution explicitly lays out the days for the election, voting by the Electoral College, and the Inauguration. Those dates can only be changed by Congress and good luck Nancy getting the Turtle to go along with that !

On January 20, 2021 either DJT or Hiden Biden will be sworn in.

Why would an interim president be needed ? Even if Trump loses the election he is still president until the new one takes office which will be January 20.

So, if enough states decide they cannot certify the result there may not be enough electoral votes to elect either one of the candidates. Guarantee you that neither candidate will be conceding a loss.

If the states cannot certify their electoral votes they forfeit them. I don't see that happening

A few states choose to do this and neither one can win with enough electoral votes. 'They' will do anything to get rid of Trump. I see anything happening because 2020 has taught me that anything can be allowed to happen or made happen.

IF the electoral college results are contested, deemed invalid, or some other nonsense, as I understand the process, it would go to a vote in the state houses. Of which more are "R" than "D".

If the 2000 election provoked a constitutional crisis, the 2020 one is flirting with disaster. Debate over voting by mail has focused mostly on the potential for fraud and logistical difficulties. But there are also legal problems with it, which carry the seeds of chaos before Inauguration Day and continuing instability after.

Under federal law, the presidential election must take place on Nov. 3, and the electors chosen on that day must vote on Dec. 14 to select the new president and vice president. These dates can’t be changed without an act of Congress, and the 20th Amendment sets Inauguration Day on Jan. 20.



Article II of the Constitution gives Congress the power to “determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.” Congress has done so by enacting laws mandating that “the electors of President and Vice President shall be appointed, in each State, on the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November,” and that the Electoral College must meet and vote on “the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December.” As the Supreme Court held in Foster v. Love (1997), taken together the relevant constitutional and statutory provisions mandate “holding all elections for Congress and the Presidency on a single day throughout the Union.”

It follows that although state statutes permit the use of certain mail-in ballots sent on or before Election Day, no ballot cast after Nov. 3 is constitutionally valid. That implies that counting unpostmarked mailed ballots that arrive after Election Day would be unconstitutional, as there would be no way to tell if they were cast in time. In addition, the winner of each state’s electoral votes must be determined by Dec. 14, or those votes cannot be cast.

These requirements create a six-week window during which the electors must be chosen and certified, leaving little time for errors or challenges to the results. The delays inevitable in widespread voting by mail would make it difficult or impossible for some states to meet the Dec. 14 deadline, even without challenges to the results—which are certain this year if the election is close.

The deadline is even tighter thanks to another federal statute, which requires that any controversy over the electors a state has appointed must be resolved, under pre-existing state law, at least six days before the Electoral College meets. If a dispute isn’t resolved by the Dec. 8 “safe harbor,” the state legislature has until Dec. 14 to determine how the electors are to be selected or forfeit its electoral votes. If a state meets the Dec. 8 deadline, the result is conclusive and Congress must accept it.

The U.S. Supreme Court stopped the biased Florida recount on Dec. 12, 2000—that year’s safe-harbor deadline. Time had run out to remedy the equal-protection and due-process violations in the recounts that the Florida Supreme Court had ordered. The state court had earlier concluded that the Florida Legislature intended its electors to “participate[e] fully in the federal electoral process.” Thus, the high court concluded, the safe harbor had to be met.

We can assume no state would want its electoral votes to go uncast. As a result, there is only a very short window for mail-in-ballots to be received and counted. State actions and litigation—which are already being pursued with gusto—establishing an overlong period for counting such ballots will endanger a state’s electoral votes, impeding the Constitution and federal election statutes. And, as the Supreme Court said in Ex parte Siebold (1880), Congress’s election regulations “are paramount to those made by the State legislature; and if they conflict therewith, the latter, so far as the conflict extends, ceases to be operative.”

Proponents of universal mail-in-voting argue that reliance on traditional in-person voting will disenfranchise many Americans because of the Covid-19 pandemic. Even if that’s true, the established constitutional and statutory requirements must be met. Drawing out the tabulation of large numbers of ballots received after Election Day would make this nearly impossible.

At best, the result would be electors chosen by state legislatures. At worst, states would be disfranchised in the Electoral College—or send rival slates of electors to vote on Dec. 14, leading to a bitter dispute in Congress over which votes to recognize. Any victor who emerged from such chaos would serve under a cloud of illegitimacy, promising four more years of political instability.

One of America’s greatest constitutional imperatives is the smooth and timely transition of power from one duly elected president to the next. That is now in doubt not because of the absurd notion that President Trump will refuse to leave office on Jan. 20 if the voters reject him on Nov. 3, but because the push for mail-in voting may overload the system, making an orderly election impossible.

Messrs. Rivkin and Casey practice appellate and constitutional law in Washington. They served in the White House Counsel’s Office and Justice Department under Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mail-in-voting-could-deliver-chaos-11598376494

I haven’t found answers where I’ve been looking. These are actual question I have, not devils advocate or pot stirring. I agree that the odds favor a winner and sworn in elected President come January 21. However the possibility of a contested election requiring a constitutionally appointed interim President is gaining traction quickly and are no longer at a conspiracy level of thinking.

Can the states certified electoral votes be contested in court? Thus causing a hold up and no official result requiring and interim? Or could a President possibly be sworn in, only to be removed from office when the court ruling reverses the contested result?



Owl

NO

Thanks, White.



Owl

I do not think you will have both a declared winner and a looser concession by 12/20 or even Christmas.

I think the realization that career politicians are unnecessary and or a negative choice for president, has led us to this course of action. Political parties are not just losing this particular election, they are seeing a future where their power and relevance will come an end. That's their problem with the current potus, not what he says or does or his policies.

It's losing their grip over the people they are scared of.

This mail in ballot business is a roadmap for preventing the loss of their power, by any means necessary.

Voting by mail is not as scary as election officials declaring a winner no matter the election results. how would you know?

We had a school district bond issue last year. Not quite 800 ballots cast. County clerk says it passed. I cant find a single person that voted for it.

I wouldn’t put stock in your bond issue straw pole, most will not admit how they vote no matter how they voted.

You wouldn’t know. At every election headquarters there will be a few stacks to as many as actual pallets of blank ballots depending on the voting population of that area, for those that come in and say they never got one. Those ballots look just like the others once out of the envelopes, no post markings, no signature matching, nothing. In Oregon they’re to be destroyed at the end of election, date & time period. There have been several cases where the ballots are still in the locations or different locations where they shouldn’t be days after the voting deadline. In another thread I mentioned that I get 5 ballots every election, 2 for kids grown and gone, an ex wife 10 years gone, me delivered here and to my folks. They don’t care and won’t fix it. How many people actually destroy those ballots or send the back to the Secretary of State, or do they vote multiple times?



Owl

Your out there....somewhere. I have no idea what your talking about nor do I care.

Watch and pay attention:

The founding fathers who wrote the Constitution 245 yrs ago were obviously much more brilliant than what we have representing us today!! Good grief Charlie Brown.

You assumed I was talking white guilt, that’s child’s play.

Keep up man.

I didn't see where Marty suggested killing a kid either.

His response was to my request for their reason to strike be greater than my guilt for striking.

That may be what you were thinking but that’s not what you said. Your quote “I looking for a reason to declare war on the communist trying to take over the country. I’m praying they come to their senses but if they don’t, give us a reason that’s better than our guilt.”

I’m with Marty, I have ZERO guilt over declaring war on communists trying to take over my country and doing what it takes to defend my country. If they come to their senses or not makes no difference to me. Their reason to strike makes no difference to me. My guilt will be nonexistent. My reason is my family, my way of life, my fellow patriots, my country.

If anyone has guilt or second thoughts, get the **** out of the way while we take care of the business that will be at hand.


Owl

[quote=danny clifton]Voting by mail is not as scary as election officials declaring a winner no matter the election results. how would you know

all sides have their own scrutineers.

most of it is done with computers boco.

Expect massive amounts of election fraud and also expect a win by Trump to NOT BE RECOGNIZED by the liberals. Better than 50% chance that this will get ugly.

U got that right Marty.

Actually it goes to the US House of Representatives where each STATE DELEGATION HAS A SINGLE VOTE. Which is advantage R as the R party holds a numerical in most state delegations.

My prediction Trump will hold every state from 16 and flip multiple states (Pennsyvania, Michigan, Virginia) for an electoral landslide. A large enough margin to make a challenge appear to be moot but the dims will try anyway. The question will be if they try electoral shenanigans of D governors ordering faithless electors, failing to certify or other nonsense. Needless to say there will be blood in the streets as Antifa and BLM will go nuclear.
In the end Trump will be sworn in on time and on the capital steps as the army will have been deployed to DC. Then begins the deployment of federal forces to stamp out the nonsense.

Yes, if not a very close version.



Owl

The real question should be is whether the dims will still be in existence come 2024?
If the left in it's coalition of freak show ideologies is allowed to remain as a cohesive electorate then 2020 is just a punt.

Longterm we need to be looking at the deconstruction of leftist bastions such as the education systems particularly the university, all media platforms focusing on removal of social media monopolies. That and restoration of state prerogatives and power.

BTW, at the same time the RNC is long overdue for a restructuring as well. A resurgent Trump win combined with a coat tail influx of young new blood could be the impetus for forced retirement of the country club rinos.

You cant ban ideology's and limit speech if you want to have a bill of rights. You cant have a "truth board" to over see media. You cant tell a privately owned bushiness what they can and can not say. Those black dress wearing boneheads could rule that facebook twitter youtube etc are in fact public forums and NO speech can be limited. Of course then they become another pornography forum.

Never forget that people have options when it comes to college. What we need is to give people who depend on public basic education options. I still like the idea of vouchers. Federal tax dollars going to the school of the parents choice. Make public schools compete for students.

Those communists wanting more "free" stuff are going to need dealt with. Else our way of life is only going to exist in the books that dont get banned.

I know that's a non starter nor would I want to go down that path as the pendulum swings both ways.
Going forward I would hope to see the dims as a party fracture and hemorrhage the useful idiots that keep voting for them. I think we are already seeing some of that with the walk away movement and local pols (mostly leo/sheriffs) jumping ship. JMO but in this cycle we'll probably see the biggest crossover since the Reagon democrats. The R will need to accommodate these folks. The dims may have lost the African American vote as a solid block vote (if only 20% swings then it becomes unreliable), same for the blue collar rank and file union vote.
Next it would be nice if the dims do some infighting in the aftermath but not likely to happen as they practice good party discipline as shown by their retention of the Bernie bros. The main thing is breaking their hold on a large chunk of the electorate.
Next the radicals need targeting and in this case there are legal ways to go after them. Rand Paul is on record for looking into their funding. Riots can't go for over three months without funding. Ted Cruz is already laying the groundwork for RICO charges if its found that funding supported criminal activity such as arson and murder. That'll split out the true terrorists and expose the dim collusion.
But still all this is short term and not the longterm answer without addressing the rot that has poisoned the minds of the next generation of voters, the university and public education system. School choice and vouchers, ideally with an ending of federal input will be a start at the K-12 level. On the university level there needs to be a shattering of the insulating power of free taxpayer money into the system. No federally guaranteed loans, grants or other inputs that render the university immune to real world free market forces. Make the university fiscally accountable for the type and quality of education they offer.

As for actual speech being prohibited, that can only occur if the case can be made that said speech actually harms or promotes harm to others. At this point some of the BLM "kill the pigs" stuff is questionable if not actionable but we could try to put some fear in a few.
Its my hope that some day we will recognize human life at all stages and make infanticide and advocating for infanticide a criminal act as it should be.

Almost forgot the third leg of my hypothetical stool. Public sector which may already be in motion with the Durham probe and Trump's recent ban on critical race relations training in the federal sector. There needs to be a break between the civil service and leftist actors. Ideally destruction of public sector unions and/or a return to a "spoils" type process to allow the executive more leeway in cleaning house with each new administration to break the party/civil servant link.

As for the media, that's inviolate with one huge exception, social media. Google/twitter/facebook/et al enjoy certain legal projections that need to be reconsidered namely monopoly and publisher type protections. Currently since they aren't technically publishers of their content they are immune to slander and libel suits. A privilege the mainstream media does not have. However, I believe by their arbitrary censorship of some opinions and favoring of others they are in effect acting as editor of public comment if not actual publisher. BTW, this concept also applies to forums such as this one.
It may be that the monopoly through advertising might be the way to break social media influence.

Michigan's secretary of state said on Sunday her state's full results of the Nov. 3 elections won't be available on Election Day, advising voters it could take a week for a final tally.

"We should be prepared for this to be closer to an election week as opposed to an election day," Jocelyn Benson said on NBC's "Meet the Press." "The bottom line is we are not going to have the full results and a counting of all of our ballots on election night. We already know that. We've asked the legislature to make changes to the laws to give us more ability to be prepared and count those ballots more efficiently."

I see Michigan has a dim for a SoS, why am I not surprised.

Particularly when we are hearing reports of local officials flipping, most notably in the iron range.

Right there tells you it will be at least 11/10 for verified results and I believe that it will be a lot longer. the election result issue could be the tipping point to total chaos.

We were talking about these absentee ballots just the other day. it seems like this year more than any other is about them, and i dont beleive covid has anything to do with it. my wife got one at her parents house and she hasnt lived or gotten mail there in over 15 years. im not an expert on this but im doubting there are any checks and balances on preventing someone to vote both ways

I know its a small feat, but my wife finally got out school to stop watching and teaching cnn in history class!

That is yuge!

When did Georgia become a swing state? Looks like it is turning into North Carolina?

I see no landslide!

Trump carried PA and MI in 2016