NYS DEC extending Deer Season

I wonder how trappers feel about NYS DEC's proposal to extend deer season to January 2, 2021. That would be an extension for THIS season in the Southern Zone...Never mind what your syllabus says, this will be for this season...

Get your comments ready...

as a border hugger thats hunted both states for 30 yrs---i still can't figure out the NYSDEC.

Lining up with michigans dream some kinda season going on from sept. 15 to Jan. 2nd.

jeff
Is that bow season?

Your not alone pcr2 we have one messed up system here

I should have added that implements include: bow, muzzy and crossbows for this late season...It will not include additional (new) tags, but filling of unused tags for both antlered and antlerless deer; of course some deer, as we know, will by then be recently antlerless....

And for anyone that lives in a County that is still no Rifle hunting, that will mean hunting Coyotes with Centerfire Rifles; will have to wait until after January 2.

It would be nice if DEC started managing deer. Last year DMP permits were scarce in some units, this year they are a dime a dozen. Do you call this management? I think DEC does a very poor job with this. I oppose the idea.

That is an excellent question CB, do you mind if I jot that one down??

Redknot:

From what I have read in the DEC Regs, Calibers under .223 would be allowed in shotgun only areas when hunting Coyotes during the Big Game season. That leaves just the .17 Centerfire calibers and the .204 Ruger. The little .22 Hornet would be out, and, I am guessing; the .222 Remington because that is .224 bullet diameter.

Our archery/crossbow season runs til the end of Feb here in Arkansas. Very few people take part in the later part of the season.

Another point about Rifle hunting for Coyotes in NYS , in areas that don't allow rifles during any open part of the Big Game season. We were told by the NYDEC during a Coyote Hunting and Trapping seminar ; that Rifles are allowed after the Deer and Bear season completely closed . The interesting part , was that we were told we could use ANY Centerfire caliber for Coyotes. If we want to use a 45-70 to hunt Coyotes , we legally can use that caliber. We just can't use it during the Deer and Bear season.

The insurance companys decide how many Permits are handed out.

Thanks CB, I believe you are right on it about the use of rifles...Another unintended consequence of this ill-thought proposal...

Nothing the NYDEC does makes much sense, they're run by a special brand of stupid....

ENV-36-20-00002-P. . . . . . . . . . . 09/09/21 Deer Hunting Seasons Establish a bow and muzzleloader deer hunting season in the Southern Zone during the Christmas and New Year holiday week

There it is boys and girls................

https://www.dos.ny.gov/info/register/2020/090920.pdf

Thank you for the link Redknot. Its on pages 7-9 if anyone is interested in reading it.

Looks like its for antlered deer only and bow/muzzle loader only.

Fireman, you may be misunderstanding the proposal and the alternatives to the proposal. Yes it is bow and muzzy, but any unfilled tags either sex will be available to the hunter.

Your right Redknot, I was reading the alternatives not what they were proposing. My bad.

I feel that Muzzleloaders and Bow Hunters already get Special benefits. Inclusion of gun hunting might help level the playing field.. I have seen such a zig zag line of deer management as that of the DEC, consequently I have little faith.

I have never hunted the southern zone but have been invited several times .... Sounds like they are trying to reduce herd numbers there .... Why not allow any legal weapon for more filled tags?

Eyehi, they are not allowing rifles and shotguns because this season has NOTHING to do with managing white-tail deer. This is as ill-thought proposal with many unintended consequences, one of which will be creating more difficulties for trappers trying to enjoy our time afield.

Agreed. I read the proposal and it's not clear what they're trying to accomplish.(presumably a reduction in herd numbers.)
If you want/need a herd reduction,do a better job promoting Deer hunting, especially to youngsters.
Deer season is long enough.

What DEC is trying to accomplish (from those that concocted this proposal) is "recruitment and retention" of deer hunters by providing a season during the Christmas/New Year's week so families getting together (home from college) can spend time afield together 'trying to fill leftover tags they could not fill over the previous three months' (okay, that last part is my thought)...

To which I answer: that is what Thanksgiving is for...

I also believe that if the appointed executive staff at DEC, Farm Bureau Public Policy folk, NYS sportsmen/women, NYS Snowmobile Association, NYS Trappers Association, CFAB, FWMB (et al), put their collective bargaining together, perhaps we could use that Columbus Day break for a deer season that included twelve-year olds and the "actual" use of crossbows as an implement for bow hunting.

The latter scenario would go a very long way to recruit new hunters and retain those that we have, while instilling a wonderful family tradition we so desperately need...And as a bonus this season would have real potential to help reduce the white-tail deer herd in parts of NY that need a reduction. And the additional bonus of selling more licenses, which in turn will increase both the State's Conservation Fund and our portion of Federal Wildlife Restoration Funds.....

But instead we have this...A season that will undoubtedly give hunters a bloody nose and two black eyes as we proceed forward.

I agree that this is an ill-thought proposal and that deer season is (more than) long enough...I sent my comments to DEC. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Redknot

The deer season in the southern tier is too long as it is. I have lost all faith in DEC decisions. Obviously they have failed at whitetail management. Look at the closed otter season for decades in the Catskills and Mohawk Valley. How about the secret deals with the otter restoration? How about feeding captured otters with contaminated great lakes salmon? How about allowing Adirondack fisher populations to decline while they ran around studying pine marten, a species that's increasing, not declining. When they finally woke up they shortened the season, BUT ON THE WRONG END! And these are the experts? They send out trapper surveys carefully worded to trick trappers into answering in a manner that meets DEC desires. They promote terms like "Trophy" rather than prime. And I'm supposed to have faith???

upstate has it right. That's how it all started in some areas back in the mid 80's. Devastated the deer hunting.

And if that's not bad enough they've now convinced the NYSTA JTI president into using these age old surveys to pass them off as the views of NYSTA members.

Here is the DEC listing on this with ways to comment... https://www.dec.ny.gov/press/121333.html
I would hope that trappers, snowmobilers, as well as predator hunters take the time to comment in opposition.

I sent an e-mail stating my disapproval..

WOULD LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And that, unfortunately, is the sad & disgusting truth.

JTI Rockwood is complicit in selling Northern Zone Trappers down the river using
those cooked books, misleading trappers survey as his evidence to support it.

Sad & disgusting.

walleyed

And that, unfortunately, is the sad & disgusting truth.

JTI Chairman rockwood is complicit in selling Northern Zone Trappers down the river using
those cooked-book, misleading trapper's surveys as his evidence to justify supporting it.

Sad & disgusting.

walleyed

I wish the NYDEC would concentrate on getting my Fishing and Trapping licenses to me. Bought them online August 10th still haven't received them yet!

That blows. I heard too many stories like this, so I bought mine in person at the town clerks office

I have responded to past trapper's surveys
with questions specifically about fisher seasons
in relation to fur prime-ness but never at the
expense of losing part of the Northern Zone fisher season.

Likewise,
there have never been any questions posed specifically
about muskrat season or the potential LOSS
of a week's worth of rat trapping season.

Had they honestly asked Northern Zone rat trappers
if they would support the LOSS of the 1st week
of Northern Zone Rat season in order to promote fur
prime-ness, they would have had very few takers
except for perhaps rockwood & other fur buyers.

None of the serious Northern Zone rat trappers I know
would ever support it.

walleyed

I have heard there is no market for tiny ,blue October muskrats ,October Fisher or November Bobcats.These season changes are the beginning procedures for a proper southern zone cat and fisher season. As for longer deer season ,i could give a hoot, because most of the larger land owners,who are serious about deer are long done with there deer or they will all get shot off and the DEC will have to shorten the season which would be a bonus.

Unfortunately,

DEC, Bureau of Wildlife shortened the Northern Zone fisher season on the December side of the season.

For Muskrat, they want to take away a week of trapping at the front end. Gone, never to return.

Any one wanting to avoid catching any supposed "tiny blue October rats" should avoid trapping that week.

I've got new for you. Buyers don't pay one penny more for rats caught the 1st week of November, than they
do for rats caught the last week of October.

It's all bull sheet, and the bottom line is trappers lose a week of trapping season they will never get back.

This part of the season change proposal is as bad for trapping, and as anti-trapping as any animal rights
activists could ever dream up.

It will do more to harm older trappers, and youth trapping recruitment than any benefit that could
possibly be derived from it.

Again,

very sad and disgusting.

walleyed

prolly that dang Tommy Geebo.

I have had a part of dealing with DEC via the JTI Committee for many, many years. I've attended meetings from Shackleton Point on Oneida Lake to Blue Mountain Lake to Albany DEC headquarters. When the JTI Committee was first formed we agreed to work cooperatively together for a common goal. With that in mind we were able to divert the DEC threat to mandate padded traps on land, statewide, got legislation passed and signed by the Governor.
Since those days back in 1988 I have seen a change in DEC; with retirements and new biologists coming on board. It appears to me that much of the original JTI agreements have gone by the wayside. Gordon Batcheller warned of new biologists coming out of colleges, heavily influenced by ultra liberal, anti trapping professors. At one of the last BOD meetings that I attended a young female biologist complained that she had to get up at 5AM to attend the meeting.
Back when I was President the head of DEC law enforcement, as well as the Chief of the Bureau of Wildlife attended every BOD meeting. Today you are lucky if anyone from DEC shows up.
In my region, the wildlife manager is strictly a 9 to 5, Monday to Friday guy. I remember a number of Saturday meetings where he failed to show up.
When I left the JTI I managed to get John Rockwood appointed to replace me. He's smart, honest, a gentleman, and trapping smart. I still believe he was the best choice. The man is dedicated to the preservation and improvement of trapping in New York.
What I see today in DEC is a bunch of biologists that are either professor indoctrinated or political kiss a----. I know of only two that I now trust.
Walleyed, you are not the only one that has lost trapping days. As an Adirondack fisher trapper I too lost a week. The biologist that caused that was too busy radio collaring pine marten and working on his phD to recognize or address the decline in Adirondack fisher. I was one of the trappers that complained to finally get his attention.. When he reacted to this he shortened the season, and on the wrong end, and ignored trapper input.His arrogance far outweighs his intelligenge. I thought fisher trappers had a chance when he quit and moved to Florida. His replacement was someone you could work with. Alas he returned and his replacement got shoved aside..Typical DEC behavior, they ignored their own St.Lawrence county fisher survey. They completely ignored the survey I sent to NYSTA members, and instead worked
with Cornell to send out their own surveys to trick trapper responses to go along with DEC wishes.
I do not fault JTI for any of these losses.Along with Dave Liebig as lobbyist, and the JTI Committee they are the best qualified to fight for our rights. We need to support them 100%, not throw stones at them.said to me, "Never give up anything to DEC, you'll never get it back". How very true.
As for me, I voluntarily don't start trapping until fur is prime, even though there is an open season.Frankly I don't agree with trapping blue fur, but I supported you because I don't want to see trappers lose ground, and because I think yours is a unique situation.

AL,

I have been trapping October muskrat since the 1970's.

I have never been paid more for November 1st muskrat
than what I got for October 25th muskrat.

The only difference is I can catch more muskrat easier
before November 1st and less after and getting them is
much more difficult.

This primeness excuse is strawman arguement
and has little to do this DEC main goal of aligning
the muskrat season with beaver season because
they think they can increase the beaver have this way.

It's not going to work.

walleyed