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Don't think anyone is surprised...

There were a lot of people that were on chemo that would have survived cancer if they didn't contract the Covid.

There were a lot of people that would have received chemo and survived cancer if the world wasn't afraid of contracting Covid. I fixed it for you. It's no secret many necessary healthcare appointments were delayed or forgotten altogether due to the Covid scare of 2020.

I've seen people after three weeks of Chemo at their most immunosuppressed level walk out to their car with a positive Covid test and drive home. It doesn't fit all of them.

Did CNN tell you that?

The stats being reported for covid are blatantly biased in favor of covid related deaths and infection rate. The numbers reported aren’t really stats their political opinions.

Negative test results not being entered in the data base. All positive confirmation tests being entered into the data base for the same individual. Any terminal patient testing positive for covid reported as covid death regardless of actual cause of death( ie heart failure, car accident!).

I agree with the above post. I call it "politician science". You should see the look on some people's faces when I say that...it is as if a politician can't be wrong. Ha

R u a troll?

If a terminally ill cancer person has a heart attack and dies, what does it say as cause of death on the death certificate? Not trolling, just a legitimate question that I trust someone with actual knowlege on this board would know the answer.

Have you ever been to a cancer clinic? Patients have been wearing masks and gloves there years before the Covid 19 came about.

1/3rd?



When this is all said and done, i would wager that stat will be closer to 2/3rd's.

I think the COVID deaths and other factors is very, very likely. The reports constantly state the list of factors that contribute to more severity and likely death if infected with CoVID. Not so much unlike the fact that millions with heart disease, cancer, organ failure etc. die from pneumonia but their deaths are not listed as pneumonia.

I do agree that the closing down of all elective surgeries for 2 months was an issue and many hospitals never had COVID cases in March-June. Several or getting them now. Our doctor told us when we did our Medicare visits that the real reason was mostly all the PPE that surgeries used up and that at that time in the USA there was a huge shortage o PPE supplies.

Bryce

I hope I am wrong but by this time next year it should be easy to tell just by graphing out the cause of death per 1000 or 100,000 side by side. If nobody died of the flu or cancer in 2020 but the years before total deaths are +/- constant and things go back to normal after the election we will have our proof.

Until then, sitting in front of a TV waiting for someone to make this point sounds like a great way to get old LOL

So, the last couple of years the number of U.S. deaths per year was about 2.8 million. I have such fights with my liberal "friends" about if a stage 4 cancer person who would have probably died in say summer of 2020 but died because of covid in say April should be be counted as covid or not. Its a semantic game in my opinion. The left uses a model from the CDC called "excessive deaths" where things are modeled compared to previous years. We really won't know until the entire 2020 U.S. death count is tallied in early 2021 what the true impact of covid was for the year. As cold as it sounds,for the "excessive death" modler folks it better be over 3 million for the year. Otherwise, if its down say below 2.9, its was just rearranging the deck chairs. Of course, I'm a totally whacked mean ba****d for saying such a thing on facebook...

You are just doing a cost benefit analysis. Who decided that 2.8 million is the goal? Does anybody think if 5.6 million Americans died in a year it would really matter for the health of the 325 million Americans still alive?

Dirt, you have a point. We lose less than 1% of the population a year to deaths, probably doing pretty good.

The 2.8 million is a current "base" number to compare 2020 with when we get the final numbers in 2021. If the the total 2020 U.S. deaths aren't over 3 million, is the 200k dead so far "from covid" a lie...?

I seen a article that said the CDC reported only 6 percent of the Covid deaths were actually caused by the virus. So, who are supposed to believe? I'm thinking the article I read is closer to the truth.

The 6% was with covid only on the death cert.This came out in the August 26 (a t least) CDC update before Table 3, when they talk about comorbidity. All the others had some other issue (comorbidity) in play. The average was 2.76 other issues. The vast majority of deaths were people who were at risk or actually dying from some other health issue.

Can someone post a link to the 6% death CDC study? I read it before and can't seem to find it again. Want to show it to all of the checken littles that I work with

6% of people died from the virus itself, the rest had underlying issues.

The terms used when discussing Fish and Wildlife population dynamics are compensatory or additive mortality. Compensatory being those individuals that would likely have died of other natural mortality, or additive, mortality above normal natural mortality. As you say the terms are a bit cold but the bottom line is, will covid result in excessive additive mortality? or will it end up being mostly compensatory?

That would be COVID related and wouldn't be included in the 1/3

Through September to date there are close to 70k more deaths than in 2018. The link indicated that about half of those were directly related to COVID and the rest were increased non-COVID related diseases. The first two months there were no COVID related deaths in the USA. We will wait to see what the end of the year totals turn out to be. 70K more deaths in less then 9 months does show an increase of of 2.5% total deaths more to date.
The non COVID increased deaths could be due to increased stressors for a whole host of reasons. It will be also interesting to see how many patients died during the roughly two months of limited non essential procedure time frames. My brother-in-law had life saving heart surgery preformed in early April so I know the severe cases were dealt with during that time frame.

Bryce

Keep in mind, the U.S. population will grow by about 2,145,000 by year end. Logic says more folks will die every year as the population grows and the United States is growing at a slower pace over the past 10 years (.66 of 1% per year, compared to .97 of 1% during the previous decade). This tells me we have an aging population and more people will likely die at a higher rate. This virus will barely be a blip on the U.S. population IMO.

Correct but if the blip lands in your backyard that may change the dynamics. I am not a believer in fate. I believe in faith and prayer and if a mask is one of the answers I get I will utilize it as best I can.

Bryce

Good point. Comparing absolute deaths of one year to the absolute deaths of a previous year with less population starts to get a bit tough, perhaps that's why they use ratios, such as "deaths per 100,000" or whatever to normalize the death number. BUT that's not how things come across in most of media and most of the politicians-- the blue ones at least. We are told a growing absolute number without any other context. Maybe that context was told earlier such as in an official report or a released paper but its never given now. Its, "just shut up and believe the numbers" to paraphrase Tucker Carlson. And probably at least half the people do.

If its really 200,000 dead from covid, at least that's far better than what Ole Joe said today or on Sunday. "200 million" is a tad bit more. When are they going to stop giving him numbers to read, he obviously can't tell the difference in the number of commas. Or maybe he just says and thinks millions when they write out ".... hundred thousand"...

If the Democrat Governors would have kept the positive cases out of the nursing homes you would have had 2/3 less deaths.

No it does not. If I died of anything it will have little effect on the 7 billion people left on this small insignificant planet in an infinite universe. I have accomplished my little mission years ago: procreated.

A little over a hundred years ago human life was pretty much disposable, now we will bankrupt the survivers to save ( for a year or to maybe) a handful of old unhealthy mostly non-productive humans. You would think there would be a middle ground?

Old people are much more valuable than young people because of their vast experience,accumulated knowledge,and sophistication.Not that you cant learn from younger people,but personally speaking I have learned far far more from old people than young or middle aged people.
Young people are (should say were)generally good for bull work.

The majority of deaths are from long term care facilities or nursing homes where there were patients severely ill or elderly and the most vulnerable to the virus. In our state we can thank our governor for sending the covid patients there. Gov. Cuomo did the same thing with the same results. Talk about throwing the elderly under the bus!

Same in our state, right around 70%. Thank the Democrat governor's for most of the deaths.

Truth be told, I doubt covid is responsible for even the 6% of deaths it's getting blamed for let alone 30%.

What I find perplexing is if the administration is so sure that COVID is a hoax and not an issue so carry on as normal why all the emphasis on having a vaccine by October or the end of the year. Why be so interested in having the vaccine if there is nothing to this as many on here also believe.

Bryce

Because some governors in blue states have whipped up a frenzied fear of the virus that must be addressed with kids gloves. Otherwise, he risks alienating some of those voters completely. There is a fine line there and he has to be empathetic to their feelers. Unlike the other side, who has gone "all-in" on the fear campaign while ignoring the scientific facts and statistics produced by the CDC.

I think Trump is trying to get a vaccine to the most vulnerable before Democratic Governors kill them all.

You are entitled to your opinions but for me a lot of this is a form of admission of his administration's failure to respond with the urgency needed early on and he needs the private sector science community he does not feel is credible to bail their administration out.
Bryce

The phrase “ not primary cause” and “not Covid related” do not mean the same thing. Which do you mean?

Unless over 3 million people die in 2020 and 2021 this thing has been over blown. Trump followed the science but the science kept changing, as he was called every name in the book by Biden and company as well as the media when he shut down travel. Haven't seen this much twisting since Chubby Checker.

Forty thousand people left China for here and other places after he closed it supposedly. There was no restriction on coming from Europe for a month or better. That is our issue everything is political and not science. The science in many cases has changed due to political pressure and maybe from both sides. People don't like science because it does not impact them emotionally, it also in most cases does not take sides.

Bryce

Forty thousand people left China for here and other places after he closed it supposedly. There was no restriction on coming from Europe for a month or better. That is our issue everything is political and not science. The science in many cases has changed due to political pressure and maybe from both sides. People don't like science because it does not impact them emotionally, it also in most cases does not take sides.

Bryce

Didn't China lie about the severity at about that time?

China shut down all intrastate travel, yet they allowed 40K people to leave their country. The top leaders in the Democrat Party were saying "come on out, there is nothing to worry about". Meanwhile, China says very little about what's happening there. Trump shut everything down as soon as he learned the truth. It may not have been soon enough, but how do you blame someone for what nobody knew anything about. Heck, I don't blame the Democrats for saying what they did, but you know what they say about living in glass houses.

I think it is fair to say that there were many errors and early by many and mostly because few other then some long termed epidemiologists world wide. The part that disappoints me the most is once known and briefed actions and statements totally counter to the situation were taken and made and in many places or even nationwide continue yet today. It is not just the US that has 8-9% UE and huge drops in GDP it is that many of the developing nations such as Brazil, Indonesia, India etc. that utilize a lot of imports from us are experiencing real COVID issues and thus will buy less. The only area right now that is expanding now is commodity trade with China. They are rebuilding their poultry flock and swine herd after the two major disease events. We need to hope they need and want more as domestic usage for corn is flat and with travel still really constrained ethanol usage is declining again. Dairy needs to hope the domestic market holds. The only good thing that has helped the dairy industry is substantial government payments to prop up prices. Lets hope soybeans can stay around $10 and up that will limit the need to use tax dollars to pay farmers for beans. Rebuilding a huge poultry flock utilizes a lot of protein and that is beans. China has a lot of options of where to buy as many other nations can't afford to buy beans from South America or the USA. The CBOT and the CMT used to impact the acres of either corn or beans by using the futures to establish bullish or bearish markets, now that is basically done by China and they are known to play to win.

Bryce

Bryce, I haven’t had to put one on during this ordeal, but would if I had to. Something we are seeing out here is. In the last few weeks schools that have made mask mandatory are having problems. 3 of them had to shut down this week due to high COVID numbers. My opinion on it is that kids that wear mask touch their face much more than kids that don’t. Not sure but something is going on!

Yes you may have a more open environment and far less population density then we do. We have had a number of surrounding districts open with full attendance and shut down within a few weeks for a couple weeks. Many are also offering online options along with live at the parents discretion. In our county right now the cases are not coming from our two larger cites one of 35K and another of 12 K. They are coming from three rural zip codes which I live in one and also where the schools are being impacted and the suggested practices are followed the least. Our dtr-in-law had to be tested because one of her social work clients she visited personally became COVID positive and is now in hospice. She tested negative. The elder care unit she visited she said had very lax protocols she felt and they even thought she brought it in. She wore full protective gear and this place has had 3 different outbreaks or cases during the last 4 months. My mother-in-law is in a nursing home and we hope she can stay safe.

Bryce