Deer crop damage thread

How the guys that feed them feel about it.

https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=953576&mid=8529182#M8529182

Interesting read.

Here they will issue depradation permits, but require the farmers to field dress them and salvage them. They can give the meat to the "feed the families" thing, if the farmer pays for everything. It is stupid.
There's a guy here that has elk on his properties. They did $10,000 damage to one pivot one year.

Same here Gary. There are farmers around here that would not let someone deer hunt thier ground to save thier own soul but instead use depredation permits and massacre the deer at night. Only difference is they either aren't required to save the meat like where you are or they just don't care because the deer end up piled in a ditch somewhere.

I wish I was seeing more deer in SW WI. I haven't seen much so far. 6 trips out and 3 trips I saw 0 deer. Here in Wi, the landowners don't want the deer shot by the average hunter because they don't give permission. I'll take a doe or 2 without issue if the herd justifies it. I have yet to see where it does around me. Two neighboring landowners that hunt themselves don't shoot does so the herds not too out of hand. I'm letting the does and fawns walk right now because I don't see many deer. The DNR has never been able to count deer in WI that I know of.

"It seems everyone wants to hunt deer but they don't want to actually kill deer. They just want the big trophy racks."

This comment sums it up pretty nicely.

In WI in 2019 just short of 800,000 deer hunting licenses were sold, a total of just over 200,000 deer harvested.

Comes out to .25 deer/license

Pretty weak when you consider that one license is good for more than one deer. This year in my area a bow license is good for 3 deer.

Its obvious that the vast majority of hunters care nothing about the health of the herd and the environment, only about the chance to have antlers to brag about.

Just cause you don't see deer doesn't mean there aren't any.
I live in a rural place, I see deer from the house with regularity.
At certain times of the year I see very few. Late winter is when the most are seen. No cover on the trees, snow on the ground and the deer are hungry, they will congregate on food sources.
Now is not best time for seeing deer. Give it a month, it'll get better.

I hear the "letting them walk" comment a lot. Then later in the year its, "I'm waiting for a buck as they are in the rut now" Then after gun season most the bow hunters hang it up, never shooting a deer at all.

The farmer next to the farm I gun hunt on shot 19 deer last summer on ag permits. No wonder I didn't see any last season.

I'd be real hesitant to shoot a doe out there this year because we see so few deer. Yet the neighbor seems intent on blasting every one he sees.

Antlers are nice, but I just want meat for the freezer. Antler worship has done more harm than good for all hunting and trapping pursuits.

"We have the same issue. Had young fellow stop other day wanting to hunt one of our woods bad and first thing out of his mouth was I only shoot bucks. I guess he must have thought that would make me happy. I assume he saw a nice buck or two run into the woods and why he was so interested. I politely sent him on his way. We have some guys we allow to hunt that are pretty good about taking does and nice buck if it happens along which is fine with me but they just can't keep up with the rate they are repopulating at."

What to hunt on private land owned by farmers, Tell them you will shoot only does and your wife has a license that you regularly fill.

I allow one guy to hunt my place, small 20 some acres, First question I always ask is do you shoot does?
Most guys puff up their chests and say "I only shoot Bucks!" Those guys I don't allow in.

Every area is different to Dirty D. I also talk to the one neighboring landowner who has game cameras out and he's not seeing as many deer as he used to. The other one that hunts that I talked to last year after the 2nd day of gun season asked where are the deer?? I told him I hadn't seen many and I wish I knew. I shoot one most years, only once in the last 15 years or so did I not get one. I missed a doe during gun season that year and it was the only shot I had. Walking the edges of the neighbors fields so far this year there is not a lot of trails going under/over the fences. The corns coming out on the one farm probably this week as they started Monday so we'll see.

I'm in the same area. Trouble is most of the land is private.
Fewer people allow access cause one ruins it for the many.
I have one chunk of land in the area that is off limits and the deer know this.
During gun season the deer are all there by 8am opening day.

There is state hunting land in my area, right next to it is the chunk of land that is off limits.
During the gun season you can see 1-2 dozen deer in the fields on this place every evening.

Opening morning is your best time to get a deer around here.
Your odds drop to near zero after opening day.
The deer just disappear till a couple of days after the season closes. I see it every year.

Don't worry about shooting does, deer repopulate very quickly. I read a study done in MI I believe back in the '60's. Large chunk of land (several sq miles) was fenced, deer population was almost wiped out and in 2-3 years it was greater than the surrounding area.
Do some research on deer populations on reserves that allow hunting and population dynamics. It'll ease your mind when you realize how quickly they come back.

Very True.
People seeing deer is after all anecdotal. Doesn't prove anything.

Best way to tell in my area and areas with similar vegetation is taking a walk in the woods. Amount of browse damage on plants and lack of certain plants is best indicator what the true population.
Crop fields are a good food source at certain times of the year, other times they are a desert, not much can survive in there. Its at these times the deer hit the stuff that is there all year round.

This all gets back to the question of how many deer should there be?
There is a point where a deer herd starts adversely effecting the world around it. Is that too many deer then?
Or if you don't see any deer does that mean there aren't enough?

I don't see lots of animals that are around. Skunks, Possums, Foxes does that mean that the population is too low?

When deer are shot at all summer, that makes even opening morning tough. I know several private tracts that are "sanctuaries." See dozens and dozens of deer in them. I must be affecting the herd genetics, fewer of them seem to hop the fence anymore.

K Snow, I don't think many deer are shot legally during the summer, Farmers doing illegal is another thing.

DNR has list of farmers getting crop damage permits.
None in Sheboygan Co.

https://dnrx.wisconsin.gov/wdacp/public/permit/2020/deer

I read thru the reponses in the OP's link.

Many of those farmers feel similar to me. I know people that manage land, golf courses, natural areas and private land tracts. The biggest issue they all have by far is the deer herd. Deer are very destructive critters.

People usuallyt get tunnel vision and thik that everyone else thinks like they do.
Hunters want more deer. There is never enough. They very often don't have a concept on how the deer effect others.
Foresters, Land Owners, Farmers, Ins co's, and anyone who has a deer/auto accident. Higher deer populations negatively effect all these people.
Ask them and they tell you there are too many deer.

How many deer should there be? the million dollar question.

Thanks for sharing. Was surprised to see a name or two on there.

The surprising thing about the crop damage permits is how many are for small acreage. 1-2 acres.
Must be high value intensive crops, Asparagus, Strawberries and farmer market sellers.

Also interesting on how many tags on these small plots.

1 acre 25 permits and another for 30 permits on 1 acre.

Dirty D, I gun hunt in Dane Co, sorry for the misunderstanding.
And yep, he's on the list for 10 permits this year.

I've stood in DNR meetings here in NC and listened to farmers complain about crop damage. I immediately offered to help them with their issue (meat hunter) They rolled their eyes and moved on. You can't work with that mentality.

We have 12 "crop damage" deer permits on our lease. That is one of the conditions in getting the land. We have to kill at least 10 antlerless deer are we don't get it the next year. BUT they have to be taken during a legal hunt and killed with what ever weapon is legal at the time . Also they are for antlerless only . The tags are issued to the land owner who then gives them to us. Only 5 tags per hunter can be used during a season.



BUT there is a pumpkin farmer here that does have a shoot on site permit because the does will take a bite out of his pumpkins and they are junk after that.

Hard to say where they are coming from.


If I was you I'd talk to them one on one after the meeting and see what their thoughts are on letting you hunt their land.
Maybe they had bad experiences with hunters cutting fences, driving on crops etc etc.
Or maybe they allowed hunting in the past and the hunter only shot one Buck and quit.
Maybe they see hunters as an ineffective way to thin the herd.
I don't know the rules and regs in your area but if you could convince the landowner that your all about killing any and all deer that cross your path.
Hard to say, a one on one respectful conversation often teaches alot if you'll listen to what they say.

I've got a guy hunting my place now, he passed on deer last year cause they had fawns with them. I need to explain to him I let him on here to shoot the deer. If he's going to pass on a legal deer I'll have to find someone who won't.

After the meeting I did approach him. I was immediately judged for my attire (button down shirt/slacks) and dismissed. His mistake. Ultimately, I think he was there pumping a fuss about something else, and this was a Segway for him. It seemed to me he didn't really want assistance in taking care of his "deer problem". I've seen the same behavior from those with hogs on their land. They'll fuss a storm but when you ask for access, the hand comes out and they are looking for "trophy fees."

It’s all about the money out West. People will chum the deer into their place , for “the count”. Land has been bought with the sole intent being to get these landowner tags. They’ll cry about the stubble getting nibbled on, apply and get the tags, then two weeks later bring in a couple thousand sheep to chew on the same stubble.

I imagine its a little different in every place. Around here its awful hard to find anyone willing to kill enough deer and I'm somewhat guilty too as after awhile it gets to be work---really not much hunting involved just shooting. And its true that alot of the big ag owners are somewhat leery to give out permission which can be counterproductive for them but its also true that virtually everyone asking permission is only wanting to shoot a buck. And many of those really are looking for a trophy buck at that but will end up shooting the 2.5-3.5 year olds with some future antler promise once they get bored.

If someone wants permission to hunt, all you need to do is shoot does and you can get access from about every farmer. They may even have damage permits for you depending on circumstances. The states DNR deer program leader uses the place I hunt as example of how hard it is to check the deer population in an overpopulated area like here---a couple sections of ground mainly controlled by two primary land owners and not uncommon for 100 deer to come off it. Sitting on pile of tags right now that werent used up in the early season. Filling them will be hard. Pretty much already know they'll be shooting deer in January after season is over just to make a dent. Been like that for 1.5 decades. Kill them by the trailer load year after year, has zero impact on the herd. Need to get a much larger population killing a much larger number of does.

Who cares if they only shoot one deer, or if the deer is a buck....that is still one less mouth munching on your crops. If you cant find one hunter to kill 10 deer, then find 10 hunters that will each kill one deer. I come from farming heritage and I dont mind saying farmers are some of the biggest whiners out there. Want all the deer dead but dont want anybody on their land...or as mentioned here, dont want a hunter on their land because they dont have the same exact harvest ideology as they do. Bottom line, farmer pays taxes on their land and they can dictate who hunts, but dont be sniveling about crop damage...it could be resolved easy enough.

Having said that, I am thankful for the job farmers do, we need them.

Well said and I agree

Shoot the momma first then reunite the family as fast as you can shoot !!!!!!!!

LOL think you are missing the point of deer control. IF you shoot a doe that is up to four mouths not munching come next season . ( got 3 does with triplets on our lease this time).

One of the farmers in the comments said this:

" need to kill about 3X the amount of deer you expect to kill--Deer are prolific at multipling
Don't know how big an area you are talking about BUT expect to kill at least 500- 600 deer yearly before you make some progress."

Now I'm an outside observer to this issue, but it seems to me that NO amount of recreational or meat hunting is capable of helping this gentlemen with his problem. Some of you are talking about letting 5 or 10 hunters hunt... what good is that going to do on this guy's farm?

As trappers, we usually talk objectively about "wildlife management," but it seems some of us still have pet species. It sounds to me, as an outsider, than the deer in that area are due for some "intensive management." If they are overpopulated and causing economical damage, then treat them just like rats, nutritia, hogs or Asian carp. At least, according to the Agtalk comments, some farmers are being proactive themselves, and they should be applauded.

Not missing it at all. Every mouth gone is one less. Some hunters are happy to shoot does (me), some prefer bucks. Let them ALL hunt to their preference and get rid of some deer...

Populations like that dont happen over a couple years. Makes you wonder if the reason for the extreme overpopulation in that area is the lack of access for the hunters to get on the land throughout the years.

Yes many of the permits are for specialty crops and orchards etc. Several of these of the very small ones may well be in suburban areas where the habitat is great and hunting is non existent. I note that hardly any of the permits go out to our larger farms that raise a lot of corn, beans, alfalfa etc. If you think about it however if I were a farmer with lots of crop damage and say 1200 acres with about 30% marsh, woods or other deer habitat I would apply for permits too. If 5 guys each leased 100 acres of the non farm land and were only interested in large males you would not get the herd reduction you are looking for or need. Also one could be giving opportunity to younger hunters that don't have the means to lease larger plots of land and buy expensive equipment.

Bryce

This is exactly the way it is here. I just looked at Grant county where I hunt. I see some names from my area. I'd go shoot a doe no problem. Here's the issue it's all managed which means you have to stop by every day and sign some book. I realize farmers are busy and that's not feasible. They want to complain but don't want you on their land either.They can fill out a notebook 3 months in advance with relatives and friends names and no one hunts it. A couple of the names I seen I know they won't let people in other than relatives or friends.

From someone with a bit of experience you have to be smart about how you target the deer. To take 100+ in a month or so, you cannot just randomly harvest deer from all over the farm when its convenient. You will need access to a large cooler and a plan to rotate the fields that are hunted as just like anything else, to much random activity will have them wise to your tactics quickly. A plan to fill 3 or 4 tags per field after work and rotate fields daily will keep you in deer assuming you have 8 - 10 fields to work with. Every John Doe will tell you that they want a deer when you get one but as soon as you call them on a hot summer night informing them you are on your way to drop one off they instantly tell you they aren't ready, need help skinning, don't have room, whatever. The local processor will be your best option if they are a part of the feed the hungry program. That is where 95% of your deer will go - immediately to the cooler with the use of the key he gives you as you are a respectable guy who can be trusted. You will need to understand where you can and cant drive and property lines. It becomes a 2nd job but you also become very proficient at shooting and gutting. The amount of damage from deer is hard for the average hunter to fathom but smacks the farmer right in the checkbook.

Still see 30+ deer a day from each stand on that farm during deer season.

Deer populations vary greatly in our state. North Ga mountainous areas are hurting due to habitat and predator issues. My area has an over abundance of deer and hunters do their best to keep the population in check. My particular county is a “big buck” county. At one point no one wanted to shoot does because they didn’t want to mess up their property for a “big buck”. After a few years they noticed the weights of the older bucks drop. Went from the 250-275 class to 200-225. They finally realized while we aren’t over populated, there were too many mouths to feed. So, most have set up a management plan on doe harvest. Landowners got with surrounding landowners and set goals. Weights are slowly rising. A slow day is less than 10 deer sighted per sit. An average day is in the mid teens. A pretty good day is 20+ with half being bucks. I know of one 5,000ac tract that takes 120 does a year and probably 10-12 bucks a year. Most of the does are taken towards the end of season and they’ll conduct drives to make sure they reach their numbers. The land is sectioned up on paper and a certain number of deer (does) are taken from each section. Even with that many deer taken, the average sit is still in the mid teens.
I don’t know of anyone that has to use depredation permits and if they do, it’s not enough to cause any hurt on our populations.
I personally like “big buck” hunters and landowners. They PAY to have critters removed, lol!!

This is a very controversial subject between the farmers and deer hunters. I farm 800 acres and enjoy deer hunting.

I will post some gps yield maps from our farms. Shelled a 21 acre corn field this afternoon that averaged 160+ bu/ac up by the county road, and fell off to nothing by the time I hit the woods edge. 5-6 acres were below 20 bu, and that kills your average. It’s very aggravating watching deer run out of the corn, right in front of the combine. My uncle and grandfather hate them, like rats. I am 4th generation to farm our land, and I can see why they hate them.

I watch bucks grow, and I like targeting big mature bucks, especially with archery. Also, i shoot a lot of does. I’ll put at least 6 deer in our freezers per year, and always kill at least 10, and give a lot to friends and extended family.

Our local county farm bureau put together a deer contest to give incentive to kill deer. I am a board member. We gathered $10,000 + of donations from farmers. For every deer killed in our late gun season, we give the hunter a raffle ticket. If they bring 3 deer, they get 3 tickets for the drawing. We notch the deers ear so it cannot be checked twice. After the season, we give away 10 $1,000 prizes to hunters with the lucky tickets. This has actually increased the deer taken in that late gun season in our 3 local counties where the contest is held. If the hunters do not want the deer they harvested, the farm bureau pays the processing fee, and donates the deer to food bank. This contest was put together by farmers, and goes to show how much they are concerned about deer crop damage.

Properties are being bought left and right for trophy hunting. If you have 3-400 acres, kill a few bucks per year off that property, you are creating a problem. Got to kill does. A big part of deer management is keeping a tight ratio of buck:doe , and many guys don’t realize this. Can’t just harvest bucks without harvesting does too. I understand that some areas of the country do not have the deer numbers like others, so that has to be considered as well. I’m not talking about those areas, I’m talking about deer infested areas. A soybean field in June will show you deer, it’s not uncommon to see 30+ deer in a large field around my area.

Please do your part and harvest does too, especially if you’re a buck hunter.


John

My farm, area, township, county, region etc., will support X numbers of grazing animals (makes a little difference for weight - animal units) with no difference to their sex. Want to SEE more bucks then shoot more does. State agencies in charge of managing wildlife #'s need to balance landowner wishes, public sentiment and car insurance companies just to name a few in this day and age. What everyone needs to grasp is that if managing deer per Ma natures way (substituting humans as the harvest mechanism) 80% of the annual harvest should be fawns (YOY's). That is Bio 101 guys as the youngsters should constitute the vast majority of the deer taken. Try and get that one by the general public Bambie! So now you have a lot of "society's conditions" to satisfy and still try to balance the biological factors of the species. Not the easiest. For you Michigan guys, when I attended MSU (long time ago) the grad students doing their thesis' with the DNR had a winter time density of 136 deer per square mile in Roscommon Twp (Houghton lake) and everyone was seeing deer in the fall. Hunters and people looking for deer were happy. The car insurance companies put the end to that (which someone should have anyway) so the "herd" was whittled down to a more K value. For a herd to grow or maintain itself the food, cover and water needs to be there but through the years the most important factor I have observed (in my narrow world) is a QUIET secluded place for mom to drop that fawn and hide it for 2-3 weeks. Your crop can then get off to a good start. When you run fawns through hay windrowers and have free ranging dogs around the countryside your CROP is already reduced. So before you get into the harvest discussions you may want to look at some of the limiting factors of the herd in general................................ my take................. the mike

I disagree with the State claiming ownership of all wildlife even though 99% of wildlife is on private land and fed by farmers.
Let the farmers sell the permits instead of the State, then they can't complain.
Here, the State has established a good elk population but it's all on private land. The elk do tremendous damage to corn and soybean pivots, yet the State owns the animals and forbids the landowner to protect his crops.

And, in today's world, I suppose if a landowner lets hunters on his land and someone gets shot then the landowner will be held liable.

I hunt deer for meat ,i shoot 5-7 deer every year .last year may be the first year in the last twenty that i have killed two mature bucks .Most years i shoot all doe s . In almost fifty years of hunting i only have had one buck mounted and a couple euorpean mounts . My son and brother kill between 3-5 deer every year also. Thats a lot of deer meat ,I do give about half away to friends I also know a large farmer that complains about crop damage that wont let anyone hunt he tills over 9000 acers through out the county .,and complains every year.

Sorry Gary, it doesn't work that way in either case that you stated above and what follows holds true for all land not under Native American Reservation status in NE......... If the landowner "owns" the deer,,, and he charges for a permit he or she is then responsible for the damage they (the deer) do PERIOD ! You can purchase a shooting reserve and raise big bucks for sale if you want but they need to be in a controlled environment. So if that deer runs out in front of my vehicle and a collision occurs its the landowners responsibility and they could be taken to court for restitution of damages. Same with wild deer if a landowner believes he/she owns them. You would need insurance just like livestock on the road and those premiums would be out of everyone's price range. Expand that thought to other wildlife.... Beaver... if YOUR (not Gary's but using this as an example) beaver back water up onto my property, I have the legal right to seek damages from you for their activity (uncontrolled). So wildlife belong to the people with most states being the managers. Federal species can fall under two jurisdictions ,,, just ask the wolf people. On the second statement,,, here in NE the Recreational Use Act covers and releases the landowner from any liability, for permissions granted to others, to pursue Recreational Activities (hunting, fishing, boating, winter skiing, trapping etc.) as long as the owner DOES NOT receive any monetary payment for the enjoyment of that activity. Take just 1 dollar and the owner then becomes liable for the condition of the property on which the activity is occurring and you will need Recreation Insurance for protection of any assets you have. Now if you have a hunting ranch (like Texas), and have exotics for sale that you purchased, then you can charge all you want and are also liable for them on the road, at the neighbors, anywhere off your property, and any safety concerns on the property etc.,. Its just like the county road issues here where the landowner owns to the center of the road in many cases but has given up the right of use to county governments to maintain the road bed for transportation. I don't want to be responsible for keeping up the roads fronting my farms and don't have time to charge people for the use of it....................... People own the wildlife but give the state the duty of managing it. Like all things,,, careful what we wish for in this complex society as it usually has another edge we don't see................ the mike