big bang was not the beginning?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/earlier-universe-existed-big-bang-174323840.html



I personally have always thought time may not be linear. Instead no beginning or end. (article doesnt mention that but tends IMO to support the idea)

I'd like to see that earlier universe...can you show it to me?

thanks in advance.

I personally don't support the "big bang" theory. Everything in our world works together too intrically to be formed by an explosion.
The people are kinda weird though.

The idea is interesting to me. I thought maybe it would be to others also

Trying to understand the universe by using math and physics is a good thing.

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34 it all adds up.

God created everything we see and more.

Yep...

sigh

Sounds like Danny may be considering all was created by design.

The deeper the dive the more amazing the finds.
The Big Bang is established theory as the universe's beginning, if you asked any person on the street and most scientists. .
Why is it established? Because it's taught in science classes without question?
Perhaps it may not end up being so established after all according to this article.
Perhaps this scientist is another Galileo.
The finite trying to figure out the infinite.
Grand discoveries are uncovered along the way for sure.


Thanks danny.

Blessings,
Mark

who's to say that God didn't spark the Big Bang with his Word?

belief in God's Creation and the big bang can both be true...

Now if someone could figure out why people are so weird and helpless as a general rule. Our ability to destroy ourselves seems to be inevitable yet we're the dominant species on earth. (scratches head)

Agreed



Xn = Xn-1 + Xn-2

The Fibonacci Sequence can be observed in nature.

Job, one of the earliest manuscripts of the Hebrews, who preserved the creation story beginning to end more completely than any other people, noticed what every trapper sees each time we paddle in a canoe, or seek out a new pinch point..... creation's splendor.
Creation is a special revelation, and that's a blessing for us outdoorsman. Don't you wish more people loved nature? I sure do.

The author of the "Wisdom Book" of Job wrote that Job speaks of his realization that creation has a Creator; Who commands the sun not to shine, and sets a seal upon the stars; Who alone stretches out the heavens and tramples down the waves of the sea; Who makes the Bear, Orion and the Pleiades, and the chambers of the south; Who does great things, unfathomable, and wondrous works without number. (Job 9:7-10).

Paul's inspired writing centuries later explains further; For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress (refrain) the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse (Rom: 1:18-20).

Many like Job, have been awed by the special divine revelation of Creation.
I'm one of those who have stood in awe and said, "My God, this is beautiful," long before I opened a Bible.
Special revelation is sufficient enough to explain the glory of the Creator to everyone.
It was thousands of years ago. It still is today and outdoors folk realize this better than most.
The enemy would have us all "stay inside!"
Not.

Blessings,
Mark

The BB and Genesis account of creation are remarkably similar. One says and the other postulates everything came from nothing.

Just more evidence that they don't really know. That's why these are called "theories".
Everything didn't come from nothing. Everything came from God. My theory is that the energy used to create the universe was part of his being. So, the universe is actually composed of God's DNA at the quatrum realm.

"In the begining...."
Who knows the mechanics of how God did it.
I think it's great that scientist can show us how big and complex the subject really is. For me, it just reveals how big God is. If I could fit the greatness of God in my head he wouldn't be much of a god.

Religion started when the first conman met the first fool.

A lot of ancient indian belief is time is really a circle

The universe as we know it is a particle within an electron of an atom in a single celled organism living in effluvium on another world within another universe which is a particle.....

^^^^^
Boco, that's not a new thought. Some friends and I came up with that one while sitting around a campfire in about 1975.
I think we were speculating about how many universes might be in a fingernail.

As a Christian I would agree with you in some respects.
"Religion" is man's attempt to reach God; impossible.
Christianity is about God's attempt to reach man.

I always thought that is what the concensus was. Time just equals distance x speed. If you run out of distance (space) then what is on the otherside? And if there is something on the otherside what is on the otherside of that...in perpetuum...

How do you know GOD didn't create everything with a big bang? Were you there does he run things by us before he does it? One other point why does religion and science always disagree ? Look at the past history of both not the best .

The One who created us is beyond our understanding. There is no word we have that is capable of describing Him. Words like amazing, awesome, etc fall short.

I always wondered how it was possible He could hear all our prayers when I would see huge cities all around the world. If only a small portion of inhabitants of every city in the world prayed to Him, how was it possible that He would hear them all? Impossible!!Then I read things like all the hairs on everyone's heads were numbered and that not even an insignificant sparrow would fall to earth without His knowledge. We are incapable of imagining the greatness of God.

Mere humans trying to understand creation is akin to a bug trying to contemplate quantum mechanics.

55, 89, 144..... do I win anything good?

Good comparison.

Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore, seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand.

- Augustine of Hippo

Atheist scientists often claim that "doubt," and "skepticism," opposed to faith, are the virtues of a scientist, because as atheist Carl Sagan believed, we have no right to value human life over anything else. That was Sagan's definition of "humble."

His view is a faith by it's very definition.
We all have faith in something.

Blessings,
Mark

...on the head of a pin.

I don't think a "big bang" would insure clean water being stored in the ground . Or the breeze to blow so pollen can travel to other plants, or bees to carry pollen to other plants. Or rain to fall from the sky to make the plants. Or baby spiders to weave little umbrellas so the breeze can carry them away to start their life. Iron ore, natural gas, oil, copper? It's all too intricate to have happened per chance.

This is very similar to my favorite theory of universes. The similarity between the shape and behavior of solar systems and atoms is similar enough to lend credence.

But you’re still an ejit.

Your thoughts are worth as much as mine or anyone else's . Read what I wrote .I didn't say God didn't create I said maybe he used the big bang or something like it to do it .This is the problem with science and religion always trying to talk over each other and not hearing.

Excellent words, Mark. "Science" has become a religion. A lot of scientists practice Scientism. Many have an agenda they are pushing or are bought and pushing someone else's agenda. Many just want the grant money to keep their jobs. Many are looking for data that will "prove" their hypothesis and ignore anything that counters it. Unbiased scientists are almost as rare as unbiased media members. Almost. Kudos to the few(at least percentage-wise) good ones left chasing down truths.

Based on one definition of religion, atheism is a form of religion.
"Pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance".

Well you are the first person to mention religion on this thread. So which one of those two are you?

At every turn, the oldest and most reliable history book, the Bible, confirms science and vice versa. No need to bring religion into it. Unless of course, you don't understand what religion actually is, but that's a topic for a totally different discussion than the origin of natural things.

The Egyptians were worshiping their gods long before the god of Abraham came along.

Not an accurate sentence.
After the flood, Noah's son Ham had 4 sons and one was Mizraim (Gen: 10:6).
Mizraim is commonly known in anthropology as the original name of Egypt.
Modern Egyptians today still call themselves Misr.
The God of Abraham predates all things.

Blessings,
Mark

I dont believe the ark legend is true

I dont believe africans are the sons of ham or even that there was a man named ham as described in the legend

I do think that we modern humans embalm our dead because of the egyptians starting the practice

I think we embalm them because they start to rot and smell if we don't.

As far as religions go, Christianity is the new kid on the block and most are way older than it.

I guess from a chronological perspective, Christianity might be said to be 2,000 years old because the Messiah rose from the grave in 33AD. Is that what you mean Scuba?
The faith however is much older. There was knowledge of the Redeemer in Job for instance 1500-2000 years prior to Christ. Where did Job get his faith in a Savior to come? From the Gen. 3:15 promise of Yahweh. The whole OT is based on this promise of God to the woman in the original garden and moves in time until 33AD, with the ascension. The story of God started with the first man and woman, so it's as old as the 1st humans are. Adam and Eve told Abel, Cain, and Seth who told.... who told... who told.....

Orthodox Christian theologians would argue there are all sorts of pagan god(s) stories which took the day #1 Hebrew story of creation - started day #1 - and got it twisted as it was passed along. A snake became dragons, etc. FYI - There is no more comprehensive story of creation and end times by any culture than the Hebrew version of old.
We do the very same thing today when we retell a story person to person. The story gets twisted year to year.

Of all the religions past, present, and future, Christianity is unique in that while ALL other religions are about men who want to be gods, Christianity alone is about a God who became a man,

Most notably, Christianity stands alone in all of human history with a dead man waking up and then walking with people 3 days after he was laid to rest.
That changed everything.

It's all quite supra-logical so we don't need to overthink, but sometimes inaccurate commentary can be set back on the rails.

Blessings,
Mark

Why? Every ancient culture acknowledges the flood in one form or another. Google Gilgamesh. It's only in the Pentatuch we get the correct narration.

I guess if you consider 2,000 years not old, that could be true. But, there are other religions since Christianity that would qualify as being the newer kid on the block. Scientology for one comes to mind. There are many others, Unification Church, Shree Rajneesh, Divine Light Mission, The Way, etc.

I think it became popular during the civil war so fallen soldiers could be sent back to their families on a train. Some paid an insurance ahead of time just in case they got killed they would be returned to their family.

Based on one definition of religion, atheism is a form of religion.
"Pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance".


Based on that definition Trapping can be considered as a religion.

Yes the gilgamesh story is the basis for the noah story. Doesn’t mean either are true

Im going to start drinking now.

Bible does not say that the sons of Ham were Africans. That's just someone's weird interpretation.

I don't know Danny, I've been with my wife 25 years and still don't fully understand her. I'm not about to try and figure all this other stuff out just for grins.... I already have a headache from her most of the time. LOL

. Flood myths are widespread, but they are not all the same myth. Theydiffer in many important aspects, including • reasons for the flood. (Most do not give a reason.)
who survived. (Almost none have only a family of eight surviving.)
what they took with them. (Very few saved samples of all life.)
how they survived. (In about half the myths, people escaped to highground; some flood myths have no survivors.)
what they did afterwards. (Few feature any kind of sacrificeafter the flood.)

If the world's flood myths arose from a common source, then we wouldexpect evidence of common descent. An analysis of their similaritiesand differences should show either a branching tree such as theevolutionary tree of life, or, if the original biblical myth waspreserved unchanged, the differences should be greater the further onegets from Babylon. Neither pattern matches the evidence. Flood mythsare best explained by repeated independent origins with some localspread and some spread by missionaries. The biblical flood myth inparticular has close parallels only to other myths from the sameregion, with which it probably shares a common source, and to versionsspread to other cultures by missionaries


Flood myths are likely common because floods are common; the commonnessof the myth in no way implies a global flood. Myths about snakes areeven more common than myths about floods, but that does not mean therewas once one snake surrounding the entire earth.

What is the universe expanding into? Can’t be complete blackness since black or dark is something. Does the universe end. If so, what is on the other side? If the universe is infinity, it can’t be expanding since it is already there so nothing to expand into.

grandpa i doubt we live long enough to find out

I have wondered, and maybe someone here has similar thoughts, if God is omnipotent and omniscient, can time really be linear for Him? I realize it is for us, but in a different realm.......

Wisdom is;

> Refocusing on what really matters
> Realizing you don't know everything

- Major concepts from the most read book in history.

Blessings,
Mark

Mark ... I meant that going by the bible, things kicked off around 4000 years ago. But there are religions older than that. Of course, the folks that wrote the bible could not know that as those places had not been discovered at the time they wrote the book.

It's doubtful that time exists for God. If it does it certainly can't be " earth" time.
Because time is relative to gravity.

Some years ago, I posted on here something I found pretty much proof of a massive flood.

It happened while I was elk hunting near Maybell, CO. One of the guys I hunted with worked his way up to the top of a mountain. When he came down he said what he found was unbelievable. He found seashells on top! When he picked them up, they were so fragile, they pretty much disintegrated. He put some in his pocket, but by the time he got down, they had turned to mostly powder. He swore up and down that they were seashells laying there.

LOL, T7!

Your seashells were once on the bottom of an ancient sea, that got uplifted by mountain-building from continental drift.

Jim

Why is it that no one can start a science thread without it being taken over by theology?

Jim

Maybe the two are not so far apart as you think?

Maybe it's because the narrative surrounding Big Bang Theory is this: First there was nothing. Then it exploded!

Place is full of bible thumpers.

That would be Jesus believers. And yes, I is one.

Why is it that no one can start a conversation at a city hall without the attorneys taking over?

Websters dictionary: THEOLOGY; The study of religious faith, practice and experience. ESPECIALLY: The study of God and of Gods relation to the earth. With the study of earth it self being mostly science anybody, other than maybe a lawyer, could see how this could happen.

For the most prt I have given up on these kind of threads as there is sure to be someone with the old something from nothing bs turn up and drag it down.

The article i posted the link too describes a POSSIBILITY. No one said its a fact. I found it interesting.

Something from nothing is the kind of stuff people say who are afraid they may have to rethink part of their belief system.

All the possibilities may be interesting along with all the countless theories investigated.
We've seen that many of the sciences were actually begun by theologians seeking answers to the world around them.

James, perhaps some of us offer a theological view because we live in a country founded on a declaration of independence drafted with the theme of the Christian God woven into every page.

Each of us is blessed to live in America. Progressivism has been and continues to be catastrophic for our country's "faith" in God, form of government, and constitution, but no more horrendous than its effects on American families.

We pray some would offer grace to those who believe that this nation under God, and all these possibilities, and all these theories, are wondrous, but...

there's only been one who was publicly killed and died, was placed in a tomb no mortal could escape from, who then rose from the grave and walked among people three days later.
That changed everything.
Forever.

Blessings,
Mark

Amen to that Mark.

Why is a particular whiner always getting threads axed because he doesn't like the truth being spoken?

Because he's an attention-seeking troll with nothing better to do?

God lite a firecracker

Suppose the laws of physics had been a bit different from what they actually are, what would the consequences be? (Davies, 2006). … The chances that the universe should be life permitting are so infinitesimal as to be incomprehensible and incalculable. … The finely tuned universe is like a panel that controls the parameters of the universe with about 100 knobs that can be set to certain values. … If you turn any knob just a little to the right or to the left, the result is either a universe that is inhospitable to life or no universe at all. If the Big Bang had been just slightly stronger or weaker, matter would not have condensed, and life never would have existed. The odds against our universe developing were “enormous” – and yet here we are, a point that equates with religious implications…

https://evolutionnews.org/2020/10/b...FSDR3cGn5gUpgAxy2-Tzfu2Iuud0bk3pdg8C0ok8

we will all know the truth when our time is over here on Earth.....hope and pray you made the right choice

According to "science", which is manmade, neither bumblebees or helicopters should be able to fly, except they can. So there's that.

That's nonsense, same as seashells being in a mountain is proof of a flood.

There was a time those mountains weren't there and there will come a time they erode away.

Sometimes gulls will drop shellfish on rocks to break them open.