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My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs

Posted By: Providence Farm

My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 03:30 PM



Two topics not thought of as linked but I think they are. What are your thoughts on each and maybe we can get an interesting debate on government power.

So is my body and the government should keep its nose out of my business. Now can we agree with this statement?

The war on drugs. Is it a good thing and what's it accomplished?
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 03:36 PM

Dealers should be executed. The amount of harm drugs do in society is enormous, drugs and addicts should be purged from society.

...I am not a libertarian if you can't tell.
Posted By: JD Hornet

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 03:53 PM

The government has no right to tell me what I can or can not put in my body! This coming from a man that has arrested many many drug dealers, meth makers etc. Doing or injesting anything you want in your home is ok with me as long as it stays in your home and here is the problem. When you are on meth your neighbors will pay the price with shenanigans'. My neighbor tried to put up a gate on my property so that I couldn't access my home that didn't go over well for him. And I hate a drug dealer simply because they will sell to anyone who has the money or trade goods, if you get me. The problem is these dealers deal and actively solicit children and that makes me made as fire. Donnersurvivor I do not believe any child said they wanted to grow up and be an alcoholic or addict but children grow up to be those things and worse. There's a problem somewhere and I think it is parenting. We have had a war on drugs for decades and the problem is only getting worse. I don't have all the answers but starting out with a christian lifestyle and parenting is a good good start. Also I'm no tea tottler I like a cold beer on a hot summer day more than the next guy.
Posted By: charles

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 04:04 PM

Drug abuse is expensive for society and only benefits off shore suppliers.
Posted By: Leftlane

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 04:09 PM

Drug test all b4 giving them any type of entitlement. Your body you choice surely recognizes my tax dollars my choice right?
Posted By: warrior

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 04:32 PM

Mixed feelings on this one.

I despise drug use and addiction. But you can't fix stupid.

What I choose to consume is my business but when does what I consume become your business?

As a social darwinist it is a good thing when the stupid choose to delete themselves from the gene pool.

Taxing consumptive use items means govt must promote consumption.

Products that kill their consumers must recruit new consumers.

There is an illegal and often violent black market for every prohibited item.

Yet, government monopolies are the answer?

Guys, I really don't know where I come down on this other than to say keep that shiite away from me and mine. And if you make it my business I'll shut it down quick.
Posted By: Wolfdog91

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 04:33 PM

I just want to have a pot plant or two growing next to my pepper plants
Posted By: DWC

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Leftlane
Drug test all b4 giving them any type of entitlement. Your body you choice surely recognizes my tax dollars my choice right?



There should be nicotine tests given ahead of welfare as well. Everyone has watched someone stand in line and pay cash for a carton of smokes and use their ebt to pay for food. Complete BS.
Posted By: warrior

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by DWC
Originally Posted by Leftlane
Drug test all b4 giving them any type of entitlement. Your body you choice surely recognizes my tax dollars my choice right?



There should be nicotine tests given ahead of welfare as well. Everyone has watched someone stand in line and pay cash for a carton of smokes and use their ebt to pay for food. Complete BS.


I must say that I agree even as a pack a day smoker. JMO, but in order to receive assistance a full budget should be submitted and wasteful spending eliminated. Maybe we should require this before sending in our taxes.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 04:47 PM

As long as the Rich and famous want Drugs (including Government officials) drugs will still get in. Or remain a problem.
Posted By: rendezvous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by DWC
Originally Posted by Leftlane
Drug test all b4 giving them any type of entitlement. Your body you choice surely recognizes my tax dollars my choice right?



There should be nicotine tests given ahead of welfare as well. Everyone has watched someone stand in line and pay cash for a carton of smokes and use their ebt to pay for food. Complete BS.




It doesn't stop there, they all usually have smart phones, Playstation 4, iPads, etc...
Posted By: rendezvous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 05:14 PM

Your body, your choice... but we have to deal with your conduct under the influence. We pay for your healthcare for addiction, injuries or in general for you and your family when you can't hold a job? Also housing and food? We also deal with the increase crime associated with drugs? Go to san francisco, nyc, la or seattle... you can openly do drugs and even drop a deuce right on the sidewalks. Enjoy!
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 05:19 PM

If you have zero responsibility to ANYONE while you are making your choice and for the duration your choice affects only you then by all means do what you want to yourself.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 05:46 PM

Quote
Drug test all b4 giving them any type of entitlement. Your body you choice surely recognizes my tax dollars my choice right?


Even better is end entitlement programs.

I have met very few cops who think what we are currently doing has any positive benefit
Posted By: timbremn

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 05:47 PM

Drug cartels sure don't want drugs to be legal.
Interesting that the lefties don't have any problem killing unborn fetuses, but take a stand against capitol punishment, while those on the right consider themselves pro-life, but don't have any problem with killing people on death row.
Posted By: warrior

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by rendezvous
Your body, your choice... but we have to deal with your conduct under the influence. We pay for your healthcare for addiction, injuries or in general for you and your family when you can't hold a job? Also housing and food? We also deal with the increase crime associated with drugs? Go to san francisco, nyc, la or seattle... you can openly do drugs and even drop a deuce right on the sidewalks. Enjoy!


This is why I'm still of the opinion of shoot all dopers. If one's choice has zero impact on the rest of us then who am I to say. I just don't see that happening with drugs.
Even pot has negative impacts because many just can't keep it to themselves or not abuse it.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 06:28 PM

Lotsa folks keep making a tax-free living as long as drugs remain illegal.
Drug cartels are run by the very smartest people, same as any legal business. The smartest operators end up at the top. Netflix has a series called El Narcos that is a very good watch. It's about marijuana and cocaine business in Mexico. There's always guys that have it all yet their greed wanting more gets them in trouble eventually. And there is always young, hungry, energetic guys making a play to get in on the big game too. Just like the local guy at the bar that is a good fist-fighter. He may win for a long time but eventually he will meet his match and go down.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
If I get high on pot and run over your child on their bicycle and kill them, am I responsible for my actions or will I be let off the hook because I was exercising my right to do what I want with my body?

Probly the same as if you were drunk. Alcohol is legal yet in my opinion the worst of all drugs out there. Speaking from my own experience.
Posted By: Getting There

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 06:33 PM

I do not care what you put in your body, but do not come to me for help when you and not stop wetting yourself and stop drooling. If you drop in the street from Over Dosing, leave them there. Oh no we have to help they and give the VERY expensive drug to bring them back so they can do it again. JMO
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 06:39 PM

bowhunter27295, who do you know that would be smoking crack if only it were legal?

start living in the real world for awhile
Posted By: Turtledale

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Wolfdog91
I just want to have a pot plant or two growing next to my pepper plants

Makes you a criminal in most states. I think you should have the right. Just like brewing beer wine etc.. Use it and don't sell it.
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
If I get high on pot and run over your child on their bicycle and kill them, am I responsible for my actions or will I be let off the hook because I was exercising my right to do what I want with my body?

No different than alcohol or prescription drugs from your Doc or working long hours and driving home half asleep. Doing everything has consequences. You could be swatting a bee and run over the kid on the bike the same way. I don't condone driving under the influence but I think everyone can do what they want with their body. Whether it's the guy smoking a joint or the guy ramming the double Whopper down his throat
Posted By: fishnhunts

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Dealers should be executed. The amount of harm drugs do in society is enormous, drugs and addicts should be purged from society.

...I am not a libertarian if you can't tell.


Man, I hope you don't drink! I don't see how spending billions of dollars in tax payer money to investigate, prosecute, and house folks that are likely going to get out and do it again is helping anything. They will weed themselves out. No pun intended and I have a hard time even considering that one a drug. The government could be regulating it and taxing it, but somehow the government takes a moral high ground. I'm for individual rights. Funny how socialists and extreme right wingers both need the government to hold their hands. Like Montgomery gentry wrote, " you do your thing, I'll do mine."
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 06:45 PM

lets make murder illegal so politicians will quit trying to disarm us
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by fishnhunts
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Dealers should be executed. The amount of harm drugs do in society is enormous, drugs and addicts should be purged from society.

...I am not a libertarian if you can't tell.


Man, I hope you don't drink! I don't see how spending billions of dollars in tax payer money to investigate, prosecute, and house folks that are likely going to get out and do it again is helping anything. They will weed themselves out. No pun intended and I have a hard time even considering that one a drug. The government could be regulating it and taxing it, but somehow the government takes a moral high ground. I'm for individual rights. Funny how socialists and extreme right wingers both need the government to hold their hands. Like Montgomery gentry wrote, " you do your thing, I'll do mine."


Comparing drugs to alcohol is an unfair comparison. How many casual drinkers do you know? How many casual heroin users or meth heads are just casually using and not harming anyone or society? Government is already spending billions on addicts and treatment etc. I'm not asking for government to do anything, stay out of my way and I'll take care of the dealers in my own neighborhood.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by bowhunter27295

What happens to me when I kill a person after finding out they killed my child driving stoned?


If I'm on the jury you walk free and continue trying to live your life
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 07:26 PM

I just learned that there are 7 states that have State-owned liquor stores. I did not know that. Alabama, Idaho, New Hampshire, North Caroline, Pennsylvania, Utah, Virginia.
State and local govts collect aboat 7.3 billion in taxes and an additional 9.3 billion from state-owned liquor stores. As it is, alcohol is dug in deep and will never be illegalized now regardless of the consequences. The statistics are out there as to what alcohol does to this country, yet they throw a fit about someone getting killed with a gun (not by a gun). It's a strange strange world we live in, Master Jack.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 07:46 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 07:51 PM

Thoughts from an outdated era;
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Getting There

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Turtledale
Originally Posted by Wolfdog91
I just want to have a pot plant or two growing next to my pepper plants

Makes you a criminal in most states. I think you should have the right. Just like brewing beer wine etc.. Use it and don't sell it.
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
If I get high on pot and run over your child on their bicycle and kill them, am I responsible for my actions or will I be let off the hook because I was exercising my right to do what I want with my body?

No different than alcohol or prescription drugs from your Doc or working long hours and driving home half asleep. Doing everything has consequences. You could be swatting a bee and run over the kid on the bike the same way. I don't condone driving under the influence but I think everyone can do what they want with their body. Whether it's the guy smoking a joint or the guy ramming the double Whopper down his throat


Come to Michigan you can have 12 plants for personal use. Go down the road and take a hit of LSD or a bit from a big make and see it the results are the same. Pot is not the answer to life along with alcohol, In parts of N.Y. you can not even have bird feeders. Please stay in N.Y.
Posted By: rendezvous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Mark June
Thoughts from an outdated era;
[Linked Image]





X2!
Posted By: trapdog1

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 08:46 PM

I'm tolerant of other people's stupidity until I start getting the bill for it. And that's how it always seems to turn out.
Posted By: Wolfdog91

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 10:23 PM

Makes me wonder if u should call the sheriff about them weird plants growing out on my back 40, I swear everytime I do a controlled burn and get near the smoke, I burn though my supply of Ramen noodles and honey buns in an hour...
Posted By: Matt28

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
If a drunk were to hurt anyone in my family, hades would rain down on them. I am violently protective of my family.

Would I be wrong to kill that person that killed my child while high or drunk? How many children would I orphan? Would I widow a wife or husband?

I wish people could be responsible when drinking or smoking pot or sniffing cocaine, but it is a detachment from reality to think anyone can control themselves when high.

I guess that is my attachment to reality. I don't understand why some people choose to ignore this reality when it shows itself everyday. Many times in their own individual family lives.

It baffles me to no end.

You are wrong to thing people can't control themselves when high. Most just don't have self control, and that goes for all drugs and alcohol. I had a buddy who would drink like a fish but always ended up driven and getting a dui. I have knowen many of older guy who have drank every day and drove all over the country side never to have harmed one sole or got a dui. Same goes for pot I know many people who smoke every day and have never hurt or killed anyone or got any any serious trouble. I would rather have por heads around me then a drinker, they get load and stupid.
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 11:25 PM

Way more fun hanging around with drunkards than sleepy ole potheads.
Posted By: Buck (Zandra)

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/11/20 11:55 PM

I don't think alcohol holds the title as the most abused substance,I saw a article awhile back from a local substance abuse center that said our area runs about 83% drug,17%alcohol in reported abuse pdoblems.It also said that was pretty much the national trend.Regardless,I hear the "it's my right to use whatever I want in the privacy of my home",but I don't see that.I see these same people use before work,at lunch,after work,in front of the kids,etc.I see them try to come up with all kind of schemes to fool work place drug tests.I've heard without exception people who sell say they never deal to kids but our schools are awash in drugs so somebody selling to them.When Michigan came up with a medical marijuana law it didn't take long before people pulled over for impaired driving were using the excuse they a medical condition that they gave them the right.In the legalize drugs argument I hear one thing,but see another.The reality.
Posted By: trapdog1

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Wolfdog91
Makes me wonder if u should call the sheriff about them weird plants growing out on my back 40, I swear everytime I do a controlled burn and get near the smoke, I burn though my supply of Ramen noodles and honey buns in an hour...


You wouldn't need to burn the whole 40 at once if you just bought some rolling papers, Wolfie. grin
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 12:32 AM

If I thought the war on drugs was curtailing supply and preventing addiction I would be all for it. But it isn't. Not even a little. Putting addicts and recreational users in prison is stupid. Illegal drugs are everywhere. its easier for a 13 year old to buy meth than it is cigarettes. Cigarettes are legal. What else do you need to know about the war on drugs?
Posted By: Sprung & Rusty

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 12:39 AM

I'm not sure they want to stop the W.O.D.'s
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by Buck (Zandra)
I don't think alcohol holds the title as the most abused substance,I saw a article awhile back from a local substance abuse center that said our area runs about 83% drug,17%alcohol in reported abuse pdoblems.It also said that was pretty much the national trend.Regardless,I hear the "it's my right to use whatever I want in the privacy of my home",but I don't see that.I see these same people use before work,at lunch,after work,in front of the kids,etc.I see them try to come up with all kind of schemes to fool work place drug tests.I've heard without exception people who sell say they never deal to kids but our schools are awash in drugs so somebody selling to them.When Michigan came up with a medical marijuana law it didn't take long before people pulled over for impaired driving were using the excuse they a medical condition that they gave them the right.In the legalize drugs argument I hear one thing,but see another.The reality.


Yep
Yes
Si
Posted By: Sprung & Rusty

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
If a drunk were to hurt anyone in my family, hades would rain down on them. I am violently protective of my family.

Would I be wrong to kill that person that killed my child while high or drunk? How many children would I orphan? Would I widow a wife or husband?

I wish people could be responsible when drinking or smoking pot or sniffing cocaine, but it is a detachment from reality to think anyone can control themselves when high.

I guess that is my attachment to reality. I don't understand why some people choose to ignore this reality when it shows itself everyday. Many times in their own individual family lives.

It baffles me to no end.


That person would be behind bars and you wouldn't be able to touch them. That is the reality. And yes, you would be wrong to kill someone for it. It's not your decision who lives and dies and you would and should be punished, here and in the afterlife....I understand how you would feel though. I wish no-one would ever have to lose a loved one to a drunk driver.
Posted By: Getting There

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by Sprung & Rusty
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
If a drunk were to hurt anyone in my family, hades would rain down on them. I am violently protective of my family.

Would I be wrong to kill that person that killed my child while high or drunk? How many children would I orphan? Would I widow a wife or husband?

I wish people could be responsible when drinking or smoking pot or sniffing cocaine, but it is a detachment from reality to think anyone can control themselves when high.

I guess that is my attachment to reality. I don't understand why some people choose to ignore this reality when it shows itself everyday. Many times in their own individual family lives.

It baffles me to no end.


That person would be behind bars and you wouldn't be able to touch them. That is the reality. And yes, you would be wrong to kill someone for it. It's not your decision who lives and dies and you would and should be punished, here and in the afterlife....I understand how you would feel though. I wish no-one would ever have to lose a loved one to a drunk driver.


So you are saying there should be NO consequences for your action. I am sorry but I can not rape my head around that. I do not follow the post much so you do not need to respond.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Gary Benson
I just learned that there are 7 states that have State-owned liquor stores. I did not know that. Alabama, Idaho, New Hampshire, North Caroline, Pennsylvania, Utah, Virginia.
State and local govts collect aboat 7.3 billion in taxes and an additional 9.3 billion from state-owned liquor stores. As it is, alcohol is dug in deep and will never be illegalized now regardless of the consequences. The statistics are out there as to what alcohol does to this country, yet they throw a fit about someone getting killed with a gun (not by a gun). It's a strange strange world we live in, Master Jack.

Exactly
Posted By: Wolfdog91

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 01:35 AM

Never quite understood why Billy Joe making moonshine in a still up in the woods and selling it illegally is a folk hero but cuz down the road selling dime bags to on the corner is enemy number one....
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 01:44 AM

The main reason is alcohol is a deep part of european culture-drugs are african/middle eastern culture.The Usa was founded on European culture,and the laws reflect the mores of that culture-or at least did at one time.
Druggers are looked on as "dopey" and drinking was celebrated as manly.Those who cant handle their drink are also looked on as wimpy or not real men.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 01:54 AM

Very good summary Boco.
Posted By: Buck (Zandra)

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 02:36 AM

Not when,as you said, "those consequences can have reaching effects on many members of both sides of the affected families".We can't stop people from murder,robbery ,kidnapping,etc. either.But when caught we can ensure their punishement matches the severity of the crime.By saying the drug war is a waste,what's the alternative?A.free for all?Let the public pick up the pieces and the tab for lives ruined and rehab?This time state sanctioned?Free needles and dope?I don't believe there really is an answer that solves all these problems.But I don't like what I'm seeing now,where it's become a right of passage to get high as a kid,where it's become a way of life in many communities now that decriminilization has taken place in many states,and it's now looked at as a victimless crime.It isnt.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 02:55 AM

Interesting discussion this far that's what I was hoping for.

When the government has the ability to control what your aloud to put in your body that gets extended to more than just drugs. It government creep as with everything else they do.

For example I can't sell raw milk or beef that has not been processed in a government approved facility and all the extra expenses that involves. In fact I could face more consequences than those big bad drug dealers.
Don't my customers have the right to chose what they feed there family. I guarantee it's treated with the same care as what I feed my family and a darn sight more than the Hispanics give it at the government approves approved facility.

The war on drugs is a failure. It filled our prisons with nonviolent offenders causing over crowding and early release of murders and rapist. It drives up the price and creates the black market the same as prohibition did with the mob.

It has lead to no knock warrants, Asset forfeiture, and the militarization of the police force. There is more but the war on drugs is infact a war on you and your freedom.


Legalize all drugs and remove warning labels. Quit reviving those that do overdose. Actions have consequences and it will sort its self out. The real losers are the family's and kids. But its here to stay legal or not and illegal is not working and it's not worth the lose of freedom.
Posted By: rvsask

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 02:57 AM

Danny Clifton sees it as it is as does Providence Farm.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
It has lead to no knock warrants, Asset forfeiture, and the militarization of the police force. There is more but the war on drugs is infact a war on you and your freedom.


Legalize all drugs and remove warning labels. Quit reviving those that do overdose. Actions have consequences and it will sort its self out. The real losers are the family's and kids. But its here to stay legal or not and illegal is not working and it's not worth the lose of freedom.



Fight the war on drugs like a war, kill dealers, kill repeat addicts who continually cause trouble. What benefit do drugs offer society? We don't have the stomach to end the use of destructive substances so we just endorse/tax them instead? Makes little sense to me.
Posted By: rvsask

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:04 AM

And kill alcoholics and people that get drunk recreationally too.!!!!

That’s sarcasm of course, but booze is a ridiculously bad drug too. But it’s okay, bc we don’t mind dabbling right? Of course I’m right.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by Providence Farm
It has lead to no knock warrants, Asset forfeiture, and the militarization of the police force. There is more but the war on drugs is infact a war on you and your freedom.


Legalize all drugs and remove warning labels. Quit reviving those that do overdose. Actions have consequences and it will sort its self out. The real losers are the family's and kids. But its here to stay legal or not and illegal is not working and it's not worth the lose of freedom.



Fight the war on drugs like a war, kill dealers, kill repeat addicts who continually cause trouble. What benefit do drugs offer society? We don't have the stomach to end the use of destructive substances so we just endorse/tax them instead? Makes little sense to me.


Kill the dealers someone else will step in to fill the void. If there is a market there will be those that will supply
it. Do all you want the government has tried and failed for 30 years. I guess your ok with losses of not only your freedoms but that of your kids and grand kids. Try to think just a little bigger.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:06 AM

Culture sells the fantasy that illicit drugs really do make sense for people who think life is too hard. Or too easy. Or too long, Or too short. Or too crazy. Or too boring.
Or...
Or...
Or...

The dealer just exchanges dough for show.
Sex, drugs, and rock and roll still lives on.
Big time.
Posted By: rvsask

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:08 AM

Alcohol kills more people than any other and it isn’t even close.

I’m unafraid to consume it but I’m not oblivious to it’s dark side just bc I choose to recreationally use it.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Kill the dealers someone else will step in to fill the void. If there is a market there will be those that will supply
it. Do all you want the government has tried and failed for 30 years. I guess your ok with losses of not only your freedoms but that of your kids and grand kids. Try to think just a little bigger.


If getting caught with baggies means getting killed there will be a serious lack of willing suppliers. Other countries already do this with success. Yes I am okay with the loss of freedom to do drugs, they are destructive to the user and those around them and society at large. Think bigger, the libertarian dream land already exist its called Somalia. You cannot have freedom without order, order comes before freedom.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by rvsask
Alcohol kills more people than any other and it isn’t even close.

I’m unafraid to consume it but I’m not oblivious to it’s dark side just bc I choose to recreationally use it.

Many people can casually use alcohol, how many casual meth or heroin users have you met? How many people get together for a bbq and do some meth and not end up causing havoc? If alcohol is so destructive it is because it is legal and readily available, you want to make hard drugs the same?
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by rvsask
Alcohol kills more people than any other and it isn’t even close.

I’m unafraid to consume it but I’m not oblivious to it’s dark side just bc I choose to recreationally use it.

Many people can casually use alcohol, how many casual meth or heroin users have you met? How many people get together for a bbq and do some meth and not end up causing havoc? If alcohol is so destructive it is because it is legal and readily available, you want to make hard drugs the same?


Lots of parties at many big money circles involve coke, pot,and many more with no problems. The lose of freedom is yours when someone informs on you or the cops get the wrong address and bust down your dore shoot your dog and put your family at risk.

I'm sure your ok if someone kills your kid when someone plants a dime bag in his car.

You remind me of a classic fud. Ok with gun control as long as it not your pump, over and under, or bolt action.

It's not the loss of freedom to do drugs I am talking about. It's the loss of a ability to buy raw milk or beef butchered by your local farmer on his farm. I guess you cant grasp the loss of freedom and how its intertwined.
Carry on
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:46 AM

Outlaw all drugs and bring back the lash as punishment for offenders.
Alchohol is part of my heritage,just like bread and butter.
Posted By: Buck (Zandra)

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:51 AM


[/quote]
Fight the war on drugs like a war, kill dealers, kill repeat addicts who continually cause trouble. What benefit do drugs offer society? We don't have the stomach to end the use of destructive substances so we just endorse/tax them instead? Makes little sense to me.[/quote]
That right there,we don't have the stomach.The only time we seemed to have any coordinated effort between all branches of LE was a short run of the Reagan years.People that say the seizures made by the DEA at our ports of entry are a waste of money and manpower,what do you want them to do,ignore them?Look the other way?Legalization is a joke.My job working for the Feds had me working around LEO's ,some who had experience with Colorado's situation.Not one,not one had anything good to say about.Yeah,I know,there's all kind of gleaming reports on the news media about how wonderful it is.Another,legalize it, tax it.Yeah right,I would.love to know for every dollar collected how many are not.People that have been selling it for years with out govt regs or paying taxes on their sales aren't suddenly going to submit to laws that say they have too.I've watched that first hand here in Michigan. The youth of this country have went from a culture where it was daring to sneak a cigarette from our parents,and sip hootch from grandpa's stash,to getting high,smoking meth,swallowing LSD,speed,and whatever else.Doesn't say much for today's culture.
Posted By: rvsask

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:51 AM

Donner, I don’t know any meth or heroin users, let alone casual ones. I do know many problematic drunks though. I doubt those meth and heroin users get together much for bbq a though. I never said to make them legal, just figure the war on drugs is a gross failure and that scaling back the pursuit of casual pot smokers, maybe cocaine users wouldn’t be a terrible idea. All those opioid painkillers are legal too, but that’s okay, big pharmacy is getting rich.
Posted By: trappingmichigan

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 04:06 AM

If there's a demand for it there will always be a supply. There never has been or will there ever be a solution to this problem. It can not be stopped.
Posted By: bblwi

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 04:21 AM


The percentage of those who take illegal drugs that cause societal issues compared to those who drink alcohol is much higher. The difference is there are far, far more people consuming alcohol then using illegal drugs. Also there are not many people enabling a meth user but there are millions and millions that enable the alcohol abuser and the societal cost if truly compiled would be alarming to all of us.

Bryce
Posted By: yukonjeff

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 04:54 AM

I live in a village of 800 where Alcohol is illegal and Pot is legal. No stores here sell either.

This past week we had one murder a high school kid got beat to death. And in a separate incidence had a guy get shot in the face in a gunfight.

Both alcohol fueled as is always the case.

Still waiting to hear of a death or bad accident from a pot smoker.
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 05:02 AM

Yea,the mexican drug cartels are a real bunch of choirboys I hear
Posted By: yukonjeff

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 06:13 AM

They are not a problem at all here.
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 06:41 AM

The end justifies the means for you I see.
Posted By: yukonjeff

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 07:17 AM

Your babbling again.

If you want to send your tax dollars to Mexico to fight the boogie man go right ahead. See how well that has worked.

Most drugs come from China and Canada, you know Canadian Mist, Canadian Club , Windsor etc... is all available here. The Mexican stuff not at all... you guys are the cartel ..lol
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 08:49 AM

I don't know anybody that is sober because of laws. Anybody that wants to get high or drunk is getting drunk or high.

Everybody has lost a tremendous amount of freedom.

People never used to demand that Law Enforcement be defunded till law enforcement became a branch of the military.

Street gangs exist to distribute drugs. Mafia came into existence to distribute ethanol.

There has to be a victim or there is no crime. People who commit crimes are incarcerated as punishment and deterrent but primarily to protect the public from the criminal.

Drug profits are unimaginably large. The most profitable commodity by a huge margin. That money has corrupted our entire judicial system from the rookie deputy all the way to the whitehouse.


It has been close to 100 years that drugs have been criminalized. The percent of the population that is using has never changed. There have been no positives of any kind. If criminalization was going to work it would have by now. It has only created more problems.
Posted By: Turtledale

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 09:31 AM

Worse drug out there in my eyes is tobacco. It had its grip on me back in the day. Easily obtainable by kids. Most can pick a butt right off the street or in an ashtray anywhere
Posted By: Buck (Zandra)

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:04 AM




It has been close to 100 years that drugs have been criminalized. The percent of the population that is using has never changed. There have been no positives of any kind. If criminalization was going to work it would have by now. It has only created more problems.
[/quote]
It hasn't changed in a hundred years?You're dreaming.It's skyrocketed in the mid '60's and it's been there ever since.And it isn't all about alcohol
Posted By: Scout1

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:04 AM

Just like money is not the root of all evil, but the love of money! Drugs really aren't the problem, but the abuse of drugs. I can guarantee you that each one on this site knows a drug abuser, whether you realize it or not. Alcohol, pot, meth, crack, or OPIOIDS, are all drugs. Just distributed by different types of people. It's not my position to judge others with what they do with their body! I drink a few every weekend, not being critical of anyone else. But am I being a hypocrite because I refuse to allow my young kids to drink or a responsible adult?
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm


Lots of parties at many big money circles involve coke, pot,and many more with no problems. The lose of freedom is yours when someone informs on you or the cops get the wrong address and bust down your dore shoot your dog and put your family at risk.

I'm sure your ok if someone kills your kid when someone plants a dime bag in his car.

You remind me of a classic fud. Ok with gun control as long as it not your pump, over and under, or bolt action.

It's not the loss of freedom to do drugs I am talking about. It's the loss of a ability to buy raw milk or beef butchered by your local farmer on his farm. I guess you cant grasp the loss of freedom and how its intertwined.
Carry on

You are getting ridiculous.

I have no kids, no one is getting killed for having a dime bag, why would you even write that sentence, what was the point? You are looking for the most obscene scenarios and trying to paint them as the norm.

Guns are protected by the constitution, grasping at straws is trying to compare guns and drugs.

I could care less if someone buys raw milk or meat butchered on the farm. I do not think every single regulation is leading to a slippery slope. If you fail to see the difference between a bit of hamburger and a baggie of meth it is not really worth discussing further. Like I said previously the Libertarian dreamland of Somalia already exist, you can move there and have little to no government regulation and oversite.

As pointed out, Alcohol is the most used and abused drug there is, the reason is obvious, it is well accepted and easily obtainable. You want Drugs to be as easily attainable as Booze? You want someone to turn 21 and have the ability to go down to the grocery store and pick up some Heroin with less societal judgement and no possible legal ramifications?

The "war on drugs" has not been a war, its been a BS skirmish. We have the ability to find Osama Bin Laden hiding in Pakistan and send in helos to take him out but you think we cant get dealers off the streets if we wanted to?
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:21 AM

I think it all comes down to personal self-discipline. A body has to have water to survive, but too much water will kill you too. You cannot help someone who won't help themselves.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:29 AM

No Buck. People just quit hiding. The percentage has never changed

donnersurvivor believe it or not we are on the same page. I also wonder why cruise missiles don't take out Mexican meth labs and C140's are not spraying roundup on opium poppies in Afghanistan and coca fields in Columbia and Peru.

It is money. Lots and lots and lots of money. The same reason a 13 year old can buy heroin easier than a cigarette. Money is the reason that the percentage of the population using heroin and cocaine has never changed. Big money is why drugs are EVERYWHERE.

Lying to the public about the dangers of drugs makes people wonder what e l se is being lied about. I was told in Jr High that smoking marijuanna or taking LSD would damage my chromosomes and my children would be born with birth defects.

There is no war on drugs. T h e war is really on liberty.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:32 AM

I watched a TV program that stated that marijuana is California's #1 agricultural crop. Some of the waterways have been drained dry by use of irrigation.
Now in several states it's illegal to even catch rainwater off your roof for personal use, and illegal to build a pond on your property to catch runoff from rains.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:36 AM

One of biggest border confiscations happened this weekend,

CPB discovered 1,816 packages co-mingled with medical supplies. Included in the haul was approximately 3,014 pounds of methamphetamine, 64 pounds of heroin, 29 pounds of fentanyl powder and almost 37 pounds of fentanyl pills, worth an estimated $7.2 million.

[Linked Image]

A Mexican citizen was arrested.

I think there's a small sign in the lower right hand trailer corner that reads; "Do not send to AK."


Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Interesting discussion this far that's what I was hoping for.

When the government has the ability to control what your aloud to put in your body that gets extended to more than just drugs. It government creep as with everything else they do.

For example I can't sell raw milk or beef that has not been processed in a government approved facility and all the extra expenses that involves. In fact I could face more consequences than those big bad drug dealers.
Don't my customers have the right to chose what they feed there family. I guarantee it's treated with the same care as what I feed my family and a darn sight more than the Hispanics give it at the government approves approved facility.

The war on drugs is a failure. It filled our prisons with nonviolent offenders causing over crowding and early release of murders and rapist. It drives up the price and creates the black market the same as prohibition did with the mob.

It has lead to no knock warrants, Asset forfeiture, and the militarization of the police force. There is more but the war on drugs is infact a war on you and your freedom.


Legalize all drugs and remove warning labels. Quit reviving those that do overdose. Actions have consequences and it will sort its self out. The real losers are the family's and kids. But its here to stay legal or not and illegal is not working and it's not worth the lose of freedom.




I don’t know that the government is to blame for that as much as lawyers and the people that hire them.

Apparently you’ve never seen what happens to people that just have to have it and don’t pay their “bill.”
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:57 AM

Boy Howdy Donner, you sure want to do a lot of killin

I'll give ya credit though, you won't go off on and espouse morality and Christianity(not throwing that at you Mark June, I don't recall you being flippant with the death penalty.)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Boy Howdy Donner, you sure want to do a lot of killin

I'll give ya credit though, you won't go off on and espouse morality and Christianity(not throwing that at you Mark June, I don't recall you being flippant with the death penalty.)


wink

Tertius scribed Paul's words to the Romans.
This here thread reads like parts of that text and it'd sure be a bunch better for our grandkids, children, and us if it read like the other parts.

Blessings,
Mark
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Boy Howdy Donner, you sure want to do a lot of killin

I'll give ya credit though, you won't go off on and espouse morality and Christianity(not throwing that at you Mark June, I don't recall you being flippant with the death penalty.)


Killing ain’t hard, it’s living with it afterwards.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Boy Howdy Donner, you sure want to do a lot of killin

I'll give ya credit though, you won't go off on and espouse morality and Christianity(not throwing that at you Mark June, I don't recall you being flippant with the death penalty.)


Killing ain’t hard, it’s living with it afterwards.

Ill accept that burden so the rest of you don't have to carry it.
Posted By: fishnhunts

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by Providence Farm
It has lead to no knock warrants, Asset forfeiture, and the militarization of the police force. There is more but the war on drugs is infact a war on you and your freedom.


Legalize all drugs and remove warning labels. Quit reviving those that do overdose. Actions have consequences and it will sort its self out. The real losers are the family's and kids. But its here to stay legal or not and illegal is not working and it's not worth the lose of freedom.



Fight the war on drugs like a war, kill dealers, kill repeat addicts who continually cause trouble. What benefit do drugs offer society? We don't have the stomach to end the use of destructive substances so we just endorse/tax them instead? Makes little sense to me.


We gonna kill the sugar company owners and retailers for marketing and item that's responsible for millions of people having diabetes? What about mcdonalds and other fast food chains promoting and selling food that is not a healthy option? How about the guy at the state fair selling deep fried oreos by the dozen? I know, I know, the users dont wallow around and try to steal from people after a sugar high, but the manufacturers have damaged society beyond repair could we not agree? If a drug user tries to wrong me or my family by stealing or breaking in, they will have to answer the same as a hardened burglar would if he tried to come through my door. I don't know anybody that would decide to start doing meth or heroin because they were decriminalized. I know a lot of people who use marijuana that would no longer be under persecution though. These people have families, contribute to society, win awards at work, and are responsible for their actions.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 01:13 PM

My brother used over a million dollars in public benefits before he overdosed/suicide. He did the math himself, he had a 136 iq and never did a thing with his life other than smoke pot and do hallucinatigens.

I married a girl who told me she was a christian virgin, 6 years later I had a junkie hoe who stole 16 years of work and savings from me and ran off to Vegas with another guy.

My cousin got clean after years of meth, she got that 1200 dollar stimulus check and went back to using, she's dead now at 35.

I wouldn't even flinch going down a line of dealers and giving them their due.

If yall think drugs and booze are comparible you have not been around many drug users.
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper


Killing ain’t hard, it’s living with it afterwards.

Ill accept that burden so the rest of you don't have to carry it.


I didn’t say one can’t live with it. It’s just harder than the killing.
Posted By: Buck (Zandra)

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 01:25 PM

With some of the logic I've seen here on this subject,if it wasn't for those pesky laws concerning prostitution,gambling,rum running,and income taxes Al Capone would have been a upright,model citizen.The only thing standing between him and sainthood were law enforcement officers and the laws they were sworn to protect.If we didn't have such laws there would be no Al Capones.
Posted By: DWC

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 01:32 PM

For those who feel everything should be legal, curious your opinions on this. Providing you have a son, daughter, niece ect, how would you feel when sh*!bag from Chicago or Detroit or any other craphole city moved to your town for the sole purpose of selling heroin/fentanyl. Your kid or whoever you care about purchases, uses and OD’s dead. Now also keep in mind this person who moved in doesnt use, its not something they did to feed an addiction. They came to sell to your kid and others only to profit.
Posted By: rendezvous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor

Ill accept that burden so the rest of you don't have to carry it.




Yeah, most of the people who indulge in drug use are usually very conscientious and responsible.

You are free to make your choices but are not free to choose the consequences.
Posted By: fishnhunts

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by DWC
For those who feel everything should be legal, curious your opinions on this. Providing you have a son, daughter, niece ect, how would you feel when sh*!bag from Chicago or Detroit or any other craphole city moved to your town for the sole purpose of selling heroin/fentanyl. Your kid or whoever you care about purchases, uses and OD’s dead. Now also keep in mind this person who moved in doesnt use, its not something they did to feed an addiction. They came to sell to your kid and others only to profit.


Guarantee that @#$&bag is already in your neighborhood. What is stopping your kid now? Probably good parenting more than the law. I don't know that I necessarily think everything should be legal, but the war on drugs is another never ending war.
Posted By: warrior

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 02:35 PM

What I find interesting is lifestyle and morals of those lobbying for legalization.

While I'm already on record as having mixed opinions on the validity of regulating personal choices I'm also on record as despising the consequences of those same choices.

All I can compare this to is the steady erosion I've seen in my lifetime as to sexual choices. In my lifetime I've seen infanticide legalized, sexual deviancy not only legalized but lauded and recognized as the full equivalent of the nuclear family and even now moves are being made to normalize pedophilia.

Just saying.
Posted By: Matt28

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
My brother used over a million dollars in public benefits before he overdosed/suicide. He did the math himself, he had a 136 iq and never did a thing with his life other than smoke pot and do hallucinatigens.

I married a girl who told me she was a christian virgin, 6 years later I had a junkie hoe who stole 16 years of work and savings from me and ran off to Vegas with another guy.

My cousin got clean after years of meth, she got that 1200 dollar stimulus check and went back to using, she's dead now at 35.

I wouldn't even flinch going down a line of dealers and giving them their due.

If yall think drugs and booze are comparible you have not been around many drug users.

I know a guy I use to run with all the time he is hooked hard on the needle and meth. He had a good job when he go caught with a 6 loaded guns and a bunch of meth, he went through drug court and got a better job and is now back on the meth. Some people can shake it some cant. But no one made them the way they are but themselves.
Posted By: Dirty D

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 02:46 PM

In theory I have no issue with drug legalization.

But in reality before its OK'd we should go to a system where the consequences of those choices is the responsibility of the individual making those choices and them alone.

Along with that strict enforcement of all laws. Restitution for property theft.

With our current system the public bears alot of the cost.
Posted By: warrior

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dirty D
In theory I have no issue with drug legalization.

But in reality before its OK'd we should go to a system where the consequences of those choices is the responsibility of the individual making those choices and them alone.

Along with that strict enforcement of all laws. Restitution for property theft.

With our current system the public bears alot of the cost.


I guess we either legalize choice while maximizing penalty for negative consequence. Which I'm perfectly okay with if we as a society can live with the death penalty applied rapidly and broadly for a wide range of offenses.
Or we understand that we are unwilling to deal with the consequences and deny the choice in the first place.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
My brother used over a million dollars in public benefits before he overdosed/suicide. He did the math himself, he had a 136 iq and never did a thing with his life other than smoke pot and do hallucinatigens.

I married a girl who told me she was a christian virgin, 6 years later I had a junkie hoe who stole 16 years of work and savings from me and ran off to Vegas with another guy.

My cousin got clean after years of meth, she got that 1200 dollar stimulus check and went back to using, she's dead now at 35.

I wouldn't even flinch going down a line of dealers and giving them their due.

If yall think drugs and booze are comparible you have not been around many drug users.


So your brother had mental problems played the system like a slug and it's all the drugs fault?

Your x wife got in with the wrong crowd and took you for a ride. That's all the drugs fault?

Your cousin got a little money an got back on drugs. Ofcourse all the drugs fault.


Where is the person responsible for these people and yourself for marrying the wrong woman.

I get it its easier to blame the drugs.

As far as someone getting killed over a dime bag that exactly what you advocated for dealers and repeat offenders. Wouldn't your brother, cousin, and x wife fit into that category as well?

I have no use or intrest in drugs and also have seen their effects on family members lives. But I see that as failures on their part just the same way other poor decisions they could make can also run their life.

With freedom there is freedom to choose, freedom to succeed, and freedom to fail.

With the losses of freedoms ( not freedom to do druge) and militarization of law enforcement bad things have been happening.


You may not care about raw milk or a home butchered steak but the government sure dose and I can get into more trouble than those drug dealers you advocate killing. That's what I'm talking about when I talk a out loss of freedom. You have rose colored glasses if you think drugs will ever go away. What will go away are freedoms.

I think your so locked in on your position you can't see anything else similar to our former anti trapper. I hope I'm wrong. I'm willing to explore your ideas on solutions if you actually had a plan you honestly would work.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:34 PM

All this drug talk and I haven't had my first cup of caffeine. frown

After a few cups, I'm packing my bags and moving to my new libertarian utopia Somalia or Minnesota. Same place right?
Posted By: warrior

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
My brother used over a million dollars in public benefits before he overdosed/suicide. He did the math himself, he had a 136 iq and never did a thing with his life other than smoke pot and do hallucinatigens.

I married a girl who told me she was a christian virgin, 6 years later I had a junkie hoe who stole 16 years of work and savings from me and ran off to Vegas with another guy.

My cousin got clean after years of meth, she got that 1200 dollar stimulus check and went back to using, she's dead now at 35.

I wouldn't even flinch going down a line of dealers and giving them their due.

If yall think drugs and booze are comparible you have not been around many drug users.


So your brother had mental problems played the system like a slug and it's all the drugs fault?

Your x wife got in with the wrong crowd and took you for a ride. That's all the drugs fault?

Your cousin got a little money an got back on drugs. Ofcourse all the drugs fault.


Where is the person responsible for these people and yourself for marrying the wrong woman.

I get it its easier to blame the drugs.

As far as someone getting killed over a dime bag that exactly what you advocated for dealers and repeat offenders. Wouldn't your brother, cousin, and x wife fit into that category as well?

I have no use or intrest in drugs and also have seen their effects on family members lives. But I see that as failures on their part just the same way other poor decisions they could make can also run their life.

With freedom there is freedom to choose, freedom to succeed, and freedom to fail.

With the losses of freedoms ( not freedom to do druge) and militarization of law enforcement bad things have been happening.


You may not care about raw milk or a home butchered steak but the government sure dose and I can get into more trouble than those drug dealers you advocate killing. That's what I'm talking about when I talk a out loss of freedom. You have rose colored glasses if you think drugs will ever go away. What will go away are freedoms.

I think your so locked in on your position you can't see anything else similar to our former anti trapper. I hope I'm wrong. I'm willing to explore your ideas on solutions if you actually had a plan you honestly would work.



While I wholeheartedly agree on choice and freedom of choice I think many things in life once chosen take away the freedom to choose. It's a well known medical fact that once acclimated withdrawal from certain drugs is a potentially lethal condition.
Just like the liar that chooses a falsehood must continue his lie or risk permanent exposure so to the drug user must continue his choice to maintain the altered reality.
So is it truly free choice at that point?
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 04:06 PM



While I wholeheartedly agree on choice and freedom of choice I think many things in life once chosen take away the freedom to choose. It's a well known medical fact that once acclimated withdrawal from certain drugs is a potentially lethal condition.
Just like the liar that chooses a falsehood must continue his lie or risk permanent exposure so to the drug user must continue his choice to maintain the altered reality.
So is it truly free choice at that point?[/quote]


Did they not have free choice the firs time knowing the risk? What about every following time tell the life altering dependency was established?

I don't to have all the answers but what has been going on the last 30 years is a failure but the mission creep and loss of freedom is quite real.
Posted By: Trapper7

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 04:16 PM

In MN we aren't allowed to ask food shelf recipients about their income, work, or any of those other things mentioned. If they apply for food, we must give it to them.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 04:28 PM

I think we're polling 50%-50% to lock 'em up or let 'em go.
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.

Posted By: Buck (Zandra)

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 04:30 PM

This problem goes far beyond one person sitting in the privacy of his home,there are tentacles that grow in all directions from the decisions that were made.This takes on a whole different look when others are drug into your problems unwittingly by your actions.Drugs arent going to go away.But it's foolish to think by legalizing them your going to manage them just like you would beer,alcohol,or cigarettes.Maybe the war on drugs isn't going the way we want it to at the moment,but it's a whole lot better than a legalized free for all.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 04:49 PM

Well when they legalized pot here, there was no big difference in my life. The only difference that I noticed was the medias constant pot legalization coverage that seems to have died down now. Did notice more open usage. I think some of the greenhouses went out of business, but I'm not positive.
Posted By: warrior

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 04:54 PM

We haven't even gotten into a discussion of one substance vs another bit I see the pro drug crowd using just the one to justify the availability of all.

I would be open to discussion on a case by case basis.
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 05:08 PM



So your brother had mental problems played the system like a slug and it's all the drugs fault?


You shouldnt call a grieving mans dead brother names.

You must not have been raised right.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Boco


So your brother had mental problems played the system like a slug and it's all the drugs fault?


You shouldnt call a grieving mans dead brother names.

You must not have been raised right.


I see no name calling? confused
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm


So your brother had mental problems played the system like a slug and it's all the drugs fault?

Your x wife got in with the wrong crowd and took you for a ride. That's all the drugs fault?

Your cousin got a little money an got back on drugs. Ofcourse all the drugs fault.


Where is the person responsible for these people and yourself for marrying the wrong woman.

I get it its easier to blame the drugs.

As far as someone getting killed over a dime bag that exactly what you advocated for dealers and repeat offenders. Wouldn't your brother, cousin, and x wife fit into that category as well?

I have no use or intrest in drugs and also have seen their effects on family members lives. But I see that as failures on their part just the same way other poor decisions they could make can also run their life.

With freedom there is freedom to choose, freedom to succeed, and freedom to fail.

With the losses of freedoms ( not freedom to do druge) and militarization of law enforcement bad things have been happening.


You may not care about raw milk or a home butchered steak but the government sure dose and I can get into more trouble than those drug dealers you advocate killing. That's what I'm talking about when I talk a out loss of freedom. You have rose colored glasses if you think drugs will ever go away. What will go away are freedoms.

I think your so locked in on your position you can't see anything else similar to our former anti trapper. I hope I'm wrong. I'm willing to explore your ideas on solutions if you actually had a plan you honestly would work.



Quit throwing out Red Herrings, I am not stupid enough to chase them.

It would of been way better for everyone involved if my brother, cousin and xwife got wacked instead of destroying the lives of everyone around them in the process of killing themselves. If I could go back in time ide kill my brother (who I loved) myself and make him disappear so that my mom wouldn't have had to go check on him only to find he had been dead in a hot apartment for a week...

You think I am locked in my ideas? You are the one advocating for the easy uncontroversial method of dealing with the problem, you are taking a very mainstream view. Remember being 21 a bit drunk and stupid? What would have happened if someone said "here snort this line", would you have done it? Are you sure? Would you have gotten hooked on opioids? Are you sure? I've seen drugs grab people who you would never suspect and not let go, there is no reason to make them more easily accessible and socially accessible.
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Boco


So your brother had mental problems played the system like a slug and it's all the drugs fault?


You shouldnt call a grieving mans dead brother names.

You must not have been raised right.


I see no name calling? confused


OK slug-my bad.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 05:39 PM

"Definition of name-calling

: the use of offensive names especially to win an argument or to induce rejection or condemnation (as of a person or project) without objective consideration of the facts"

Now I see why you called me a name. smile
Posted By: M.S. Pickins

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 05:52 PM

Government and other people need to mind their own business. If ones actions do not directly affect you in any reasonable way shut your pie hole and take your indignance elsewhere. Anyone who claims to love freedom but then calls the cops on their neighbor for having a little pot is what's wrong with this country. Cut down on social programs and public services, lower the taxes, fewer laws, let people be.
Posted By: yukonjeff

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mark June
One of biggest border confiscations happened this weekend,

CPB discovered 1,816 packages co-mingled with medical supplies. Included in the haul was approximately 3,014 pounds of methamphetamine, 64 pounds of heroin, 29 pounds of fentanyl powder and almost 37 pounds of fentanyl pills, worth an estimated $7.2 million.

[Linked Image]

A Mexican citizen was arrested.

I think there's a small sign in the lower right hand trailer corner that reads; "Do not send to AK."



And they let truck loads of Corona and tequila across the border no problem. And that will make it here to kill people just the same.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 06:07 PM

So are we;
A one nation under God, with liberty and justice for all?
Or individuals going about this, that, and the other thing?

whistle
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 06:20 PM

Im not the smarest guy on here but I can look around and see what the affects of drug addictions have on society. Along with the affect of a decline in moral values.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mark June
So are we;
A one nation under God, with liberty and justice for all?
Or individuals going about this, that, and the other thing?

whistle


Does the Constitution protect individual liberty or morals? Should the government be in the moral enforcing business, when it infringes on individual liberty. I love liberty. Most people seem to want to tell other people how they should live. When this happens, people have very little liberty. That is why we have so little liberty now.

The latest example : the corona idiocy.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by Providence Farm


So your brother had mental problems played the system like a slug and it's all the drugs fault?

Your x wife got in with the wrong crowd and took you for a ride. That's all the drugs fault?

Your cousin got a little money an got back on drugs. Ofcourse all the drugs fault.


Where is the person responsible for these people and yourself for marrying the wrong woman.

I get it its easier to blame the drugs.

As far as someone getting killed over a dime bag that exactly what you advocated for dealers and repeat offenders. Wouldn't your brother, cousin, and x wife fit into that category as well?

I have no use or intrest in drugs and also have seen their effects on family members lives. But I see that as failures on their part just the same way other poor



Quit throwing out Red Herrings, I am not stupid enough to chase them.

It would of been way better for everyone involved if my brother, cousin and xwife got wacked instead of destroying the lives of everyone around them in the process of killing themselves. If I could go back in time ide kill my brother (who I loved) myself and make him disappear so that my mom wouldn't have had to go check on him only to find he had been dead in a hot apartment for a week...

You think I am locked in my ideas? You are the one advocating for the easy uncontroversial method of dealing with the problem, you are taking a very mainstream view. Remember being 21 a bit drunk and stupid? What would have happened if someone said "here snort this line", would you have done it? Are you sure? Would you have gotten hooked on opioids? Are you sure? I've seen drugs grab people who you would never suspect and not let go, there is no reason to make them more easily accessible and socially accessible.



The issues are directly linked not red herrings I'm sory you can't see the direct correlation and cause an effect.

I get it what your brothers addiction did to your family is horrible and happens in the best of families.
News flash being illegal did not change the outcome. Maybe if they make it more supper illegal that will help?

As far as rembervwhen I was 21 and what would I do if. What makes you think working construction as a Union Ironworker all types of drugs were not offered and suggested on and off the job. I'm here to tell you they were and at 18 not 21. So yes I know how I would choose and yes I'm sure becuse I did.

Seems like your playing the left's game of what if.... I'm pointing out what is an actual direct result of freedoms lost in areas not drug related.
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 06:47 PM

We should legalize all drugs. All of them for adults to use as they deem fit for themselves. I don't want or need the government telling me what I can and cannot do with my body. Likewise, I don't want the government telling you either. And I don't want or need other people pushing their bad anecdotal experiences onto me or anyone else in an attempt to stifle freedom.

Otherwise, let's be consistent. Ban alcohol, sugar, tobacco, prescription pain killers, spray paint, etc. While we are at it, let's ban social media (and I guess the internet) too. I read that it's addictive. Oh, and GUNS! We should ban them too if we are being consistent. Bad and/or stupid people do harm with guns.
Posted By: Kart29

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 06:51 PM

There are many immoral things that cause immeasurable harm to our society - adultery, divorce, slothfulness, lying. None of these acts is victimless. They each have long tentacles that have direct and negative consequences on other people and on our society as a whole. Yet, we do not make those immoral acts criminal and punish people for doing them. Why not? I'm sure our society would be better off on the whole if we did.

In the same way, I know drug abuse has far reaching and negative consequences on a family, a community, and a whole nation. But we can't use the good of the majority as an excuse to use the powers of government to violate the sovereign rights of an individual. To do so is the very definition of the "tyranny of the majority". Our constitution was founded on the principles of protecting the sovereign rights of the individuals - even when it negatively impacts the majority.

I think much of our problems in this nation are due to the fact that we do not protect peoples individual freedoms or make them suffer the consequences of their own choices, decisions, and actions.

So, I don't doubt that our society would be worse off if drugs were legal. But I do not accept that as justification for violation of the right for any person to put whatever substance they choose into their own body. Freedom isn't free. There's a high price to pay for freedom. Are you willing to pay it?
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Boco


So your brother had mental problems played the system like a slug and it's all the drugs fault?


You shouldnt call a grieving mans dead brother names.

You must not have been raised right.


Sorry anyone that kills themselves has mental issues and his own brother pointed out his choices cost to the system. I'm not going to sugar coat it nor am I politically correct.

I'm also not advocating murder or locking people in cages for victimless crimes. If that's not being raised right I'm glad I was raised wrong.
Posted By: cmcf

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 07:07 PM

Kind of reminds me of the story of the six blind guys feeling different parts of an elephant and then describing what the elephant looks like. Not every model successful citizen is on the straight and narrow. Not every junkie that overdosed would have survived had drugs been totally unavailable.
When I went to high school in Texas roughly 55 of the 59 graduating seniors smoked weed to one extent or another. They also went on to become productive members of society. Bank VP. Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers business owners etc... Yes there were some failures, but I don’t believe the percentage was any higher than any other segment of society. I do know of two people that ran afoul of the LAW and were sentenced to 10 years in a state penitentiary for possession of less than a gram of the devil weed. The war on drugs has created a black market ( can I say that? ) just like prohibition did with alcohol. Which created a slew of gangsters just like prohibition. Interesting side note, in early 90s the Sheriff and several deputies of this small town were busted running their own little dope ring. LMAO over that one. These international gangsters have amassed huge fortunes just like JOE KENNEDY did running rum out of Cuba. President JFK was funded in his run for prez with the proceeds of smuggling contraband (alcohol). OHHH THE HORROR!! As I said before blind men describing an elephant.
Posted By: DWC

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 08:03 PM

I absolutely do not believe you knew two people who went to prison for any amount of time, let alone 10 years, for less than a gram of weed.
Posted By: cmcf

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 08:20 PM

Then you no nothing of the penalties imposed in Texas in the late sixties early seventies. Ten yrs for possession was quite common class A Felony.
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 08:42 PM

I'm trying to remember the math skills I learned in college--7 grams to a quarter bag...….I can't remember though how many joints I rolled per quarter. I think it was 5 ish.

That's a lot of time for a gram of marijuana, but Oklahoma and Texas were similar in their crazy hatred of a plant. At least Oklahoma loosened up recently.
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 08:46 PM

Strike that. At least 10--maybe 15.
Posted By: Matt28

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Blaine County
Strike that. At least 10--maybe 15.

15 per quarter?? I don't think I have ever counted.
Posted By: Matt28

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Blaine County
I'm trying to remember the math skills I learned in college--7 grams to a quarter bag...….I can't remember though how many joints I rolled per quarter. I think it was 5 ish.

That's a lot of time for a gram of marijuana, but Oklahoma and Texas were similar in their crazy hatred of a plant. At least Oklahoma loosened up recently.

And I think it was more of what counties hated the plant the most. Back in 07 2oz would get you a 100 dollar fine pluse court costs in Muskogee County. Thats not too bad.
Posted By: Aix sponsa

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 09:12 PM

The war on drugs is an extremely complicated subject.



Some substances go beyond what someone wants to put in “their body” when said substance leaves a trail of violence, poverty, corruption, and terror wherever it goes. When innocent people are given choices of smuggle drugs or have their family slaughtered, someone that thinks they have a “right” to put said drug in their body is out of touch with reality.


As the “war” is currently fought, it can’t be won in my opinion. That doesn’t mean we should give up on the fight, but changes definitely must be made for it to work. Until the majority of Americans believe in AND support it, it’ll be history on repeat. The People, not just police, HAVE to believe in it for it to work. If The People are on board, then we could get somewhere. Until then, it’ll be the same ole same ole, day after day.
Posted By: Turtledale

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 09:33 PM

Then there's the quote I've heard told to vegans and anti-marijuana people:.. King James Bible 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. ------- I know everything is up to interpretation, just saying
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Matt28
Originally Posted by Blaine County
Strike that. At least 10--maybe 15.

15 per quarter?? I don't think I have ever counted.


That's why I am struggling with this math equation. I don't think I officially counted either. Until it dried up and then I was counting for the sole purpose of rationing.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm


Sorry anyone that kills themselves has mental issues and his own brother pointed out his choices cost to the system. I'm not going to sugar coat it nor am I politically correct.

I'm also not advocating murder or locking people in cages for victimless crimes. If that's not being raised right I'm glad I was raised wrong.


You're a fool if you still think drugs are a victimless crime. I have never been impressed with the Libertarian mindset, I feel most Libertarians given a different culture growing up would be socialist's as they have the same delusional mindset of a Utopia that has proven over and over again to not work. Most of the third world should be a libertarian paradise as there is no laws/rules enforced. The Western world and Enlightenment were built upon the rights of individuals but taken to the extreme Chaos reigns, you cannot have freedom without order, a well ordered society is paramount to freedom. Look at San Francisco, you can shoot up Heroin or take a dump on the street after a hard day of harassing tourist for money and no one cares, is that an example of society you want to live in? The libertarians splitting the Republican party has destroyed Conservative politics in this country, we are worse off for it. Read Platos Republic for what comes next after you institute your libertarian dream world.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:23 PM

Bad things happen deal with it. Becuse someone robes or steals to get money for drugs is irrelevant. All that is illegal and it still happens every day.

A 19 year old ran a stop light in a 3/4 ton truck at 65mph and t boned my family killing my son. I dont wine and cry and blame it on the truck and try to make trucks illegal or raise the driving age.

Live in your dream world where the drugs are the cause of your family's hardships. If that's what you need to do to make yourself feel better. I will live in the real world where I know your x and family made poor choices that your entire family now has to deal with.

If you want security live in a prison. O wait drugs make there way into prison also.

As far as what's wrong with the Republican party well they are mostly rhinos. Trumps first 2 years we had all 3 branches yet they did nothing they promised. Pro gun yet shelved the hearing protection act. We have uncontrolled spending and no mention of a budget. The Republicans are where the Democrats were in the 60s.

I see your not one to accept personal responsibility but would rather try to blame others for your family's and parties failures.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:25 PM

Who feeds those homeless? Not libertarians. I'm sure the drugs are not keeping them alive. Homeless would not last long under libertarian rules. Problem solved.
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:36 PM

The most violent and backward societys in the world are places where drugs are part of their culture and alcohol is banned.
The most productive and forward countries are those where alcohol has always been part of the culture and mind altering drugs were banned.
Sorry to end the discussion with FACT.
I am totally against Truedope legalizing drugs here-another lefty liberal nail in the coffin.And the worst of it is once he is thrown out and we are back to a Conservative federal government again they wont be able to put the genie back in the bottle,but I would support them if they try.
Posted By: Buck (Zandra)

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:52 PM

Very,very well put
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Bad things happen deal with it. Becuse someone robes or steals to get money for drugs is irrelevant. All that is illegal and it still happens every day.

A 19 year old ran a stop light in a 3/4 ton truck at 65mph and t boned my family killing my son. I dont wine and cry and blame it on the truck and try to make trucks illegal or raise the driving age.

Live in your dream world where the drugs are the cause of your family's hardships. If that's what you need to do to make yourself feel better. I will live in the real world where I know your x and family made poor choices that your entire family now has to deal with.

If you want security live in a prison. O wait drugs make there way into prison also.

As far as what's wrong with the Republican party well they are mostly rhinos. Trumps first 2 years we had all 3 branches yet they did nothing they promised. Pro gun yet shelved the hearing protection act. We have uncontrolled spending and no mention of a budget. The Republicans are where the Democrats were in the 60s.

I see your not one to accept personal responsibility but would rather try to blame others for your family's and parties failures.


You would of never said most of what you have said to me in person, I find you to be rather rude, arrogant and have a lack of insight which does not stop you from making poor assumptions.

I have done nothing but worked and cared for myself since I was 15. I have worked extreme jobs and hours to care for not only myself but my family. One day at 9 30 am I got knocked unconscious in a tree, my feet were numb, my hands were numb, my tongue was numb, I had extreme pain in my head and neck, I continued working until 8 30 pm, I didn't come out of that tree until it was done. I did that to provide security to my family, I did that because I took it as my own responsibility to pay my bills, it was my responsibility to make sure my employees got their hours. Your suggestion that I deflect from personal responsibility is asinine. You have continually tried to make this personal and I am starting to find it more than slightly annoying.

For 200,000 years men had the right to seek justice, to use violence against those who would threaten your person or tribe. If someone showed up with a substance that put members of your tribe at risk you as a man had the obligation to get rid of them. I still feel that obligation, I will protect my people like a lion. I understand many of them are weak and susceptible to poor choices that is why as men we shoulder the burden and protect them, we dont watch them founder and shrug our shoulders.
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Buck (Zandra)
Very,very well put

X2
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 11:02 PM

Good post Donner-and dont ever forget-drug dealers prey on the vulnerable and children-we need to step in as men in both cases.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dirt
Who feeds those homeless? Not libertarians. I'm sure the drugs are not keeping them alive. Homeless would not last long under libertarian rules. Problem solved.



Are you saying it's a self solving problem and a good way to get rid of some non productive members of society? wink
Posted By: J Staton

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 11:25 PM

Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/12/20 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Bad things happen deal with it. Becuse someone robes or steals to get money for drugs is irrelevant. All that is illegal and it still happens every day.

A 19 year old ran a stop light in a 3/4 ton truck at 65mph and t boned my family killing my son. I dont wine and cry and blame it on the truck and try to make trucks illegal or raise the driving age.

Live in your dream world where the drugs are the cause of your family's hardships. If that's what you need to do to make yourself feel better. I will live in the real world where I know your x and family made poor choices that your entire family now has to deal with.

If you want security live in a prison. O wait drugs make there way into prison also.

As far as what's wrong with the Republican party well they are mostly rhinos. Trumps first 2 years we had all 3 branches yet they did nothing they promised. Pro gun yet shelved the hearing protection act. We have uncontrolled spending and no mention of a budget. The Republicans are where the Democrats were in the 60s.

I see your not one to accept personal responsibility but would rather try to blame others for your family's and parties failures.


You would of never said most of what you have said to me in person, I find you to be rather rude, arrogant and have a lack of insight which does not stop you from making poor assumptions.

I have done nothing but worked and cared for myself since I was 15. I have worked extreme jobs and hours to care for not only myself but my family. One day at 9 30 am I got knocked unconscious in a tree, my feet were numb, my hands were numb, my tongue was numb, I had extreme pain in my head and neck, I continued working until 8 30 pm, I didn't come out of that tree until it was done. I did that to provide security to my family, I did that because I took it as my own responsibility to pay my bills, it was my responsibility to make sure my employees got their hours. Your suggestion that I deflect from personal responsibility is asinine. You have continually tried to make this personal and I am starting to find it more than slightly annoying.

For 200,000 years men had the right to seek justice, to use violence against those who would threaten your person or tribe. If someone showed up with a substance that put members of your tribe at risk you as a man had the obligation to get rid of them. I still feel that obligation, I will protect my people like a lion. I understand many of them are weak and susceptible to poor choices that is why as men we shoulder the burden and protect them, we dont watch them founder and shrug our shoulders.



I sent you a pm with all my contact info and address. Call or swing by I'm sure we have more in common than we disagree on I promise I wont say anything I won't say in person.

I have been know to be rude and arrogant so you have me there as well. And yet spot on on how we used to protect our tribe. Unfortunately we can no longer take matter into our own hands and we delegate those responsibilities to others and passed laws. That worked well enough for a time
Untill the system got watered down and corrupted. Now those laws are used as justification for passing other laws that crush our freedom and allow the government to overstep their boundaries.

I'm sorry but we can never lawfully kick in the doors of the local dealers and clean houses as appealing as that would be. Instead the cops will pick them up and a judge will turn them loose.

What's tha answer I dont know. I know drugs wont go away and more laws limiting our freedom are not the answer.

We can disagree I'm good with that it's what makes the world go around. But honestly can you not look past the personality issues with drugs and see the other negative things the war on drugs has brought us. And it's not like it's even 10% effective.
Posted By: Buck (Zandra)

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 12:03 AM

I have to say this post has been really eye opening for me,as much thought as I had given this subject thru the years I never thought of it from the angles that Donnersurvivor and Boco threw out there.I haven't had the experiences as Donner and Boco,but as a somebody who grew up in the 70's I seen enough.I find their points of view a refreshing change from the usual.I really like the view of the responsibility that we SHOULD have as men.That point of view should be instilled in all youngsters.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 12:05 AM

Donnersurvivor , were you the guy saying he wanted to be ruled by a monarch?
Posted By: rvsask

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 12:09 AM

Boco, the Conservatives wouldn’t even attempt putting that Genie back in. Alberta is the most Conservative province and also the largest buyer of legal weed.

Legal weed hasn’t changed life here, except it’s made it so a lot of functioning, contributing people aren’t criminals any longer.

Also, there are very few countries with an alcohol ban and that ban and drugs in general are the least of those nations troubles. Almost all of them also have extremely harsh penalties for drugs so I’m unsure about your “fact” about alcohol culture and drug culture. Just because I like vodka and whiskey after fishing doesn’t mean they contribute positively to culture.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
Donnersurvivor , were you the guy saying he wanted to be ruled by a monarch?


yes, I would prefer a constitutional Monarchy to Democracy. A major part of the reasoning for that is because of were we currently reside in our political slide towards tyranny. I subscribe to Platos idea that there are five types of government Aristocracy, Timocracy, Oligarchy, Democracy, and Tyranny. We are approaching the end of Democracy and the slide towards Tyranny has already started to happen, I would much prefer if we can somehow skip that phase and go straight back to Aristocracy.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Originally Posted by Dirt
Who feeds those homeless? Not libertarians. I'm sure the drugs are not keeping them alive. Homeless would not last long under libertarian rules. Problem solved.



Are you saying it's a self solving problem and a good way to get rid of some non productive members of society? wink


The problem would not exist. The problem comes from enablers. The government or charities have to enable homeless drug users for them to survive very long. If you want them gone, don't feed, cloth, or shelter them or give them free medical care. They will exist as long as society enables it.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 12:48 AM

Quote
The problem would not exist. The problem comes from enablers. The government or charities have to enable homeless drug users for them to survive very long. If you want them gone, don't feed, cloth, or shelter them or give them free medical care. They will exist as long as society enables it.



well said
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:16 AM

Well said. They would either die, starve ,or leave if it wasn't made easy for them.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Well said. They would either die, starve ,or leave if it wasn't made easy for them.


I would like to think some may actually straighten up before they die. Not all of them would for sure. They certainly wouldn't suffer long like enablers enable.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
My brother used over a million dollars in public benefits before he overdosed/suicide. He did the math himself, he had a 136 iq and never did a thing with his life other than smoke pot and do hallucinatigens.

I married a girl who told me she was a christian virgin, 6 years later I had a junkie hoe who stole 16 years of work and savings from me and ran off to Vegas with another guy.

My cousin got clean after years of meth, she got that 1200 dollar stimulus check and went back to using, she's dead now at 35.

I wouldn't even flinch going down a line of dealers and giving them their due.

If yall think drugs and booze are comparible you have not been around many drug users.

I understand that completely.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:35 AM

We would have no issue gathering rock tossers according to these comments.
So much for the orphans, widows, and aliens among us.

Blessings,
Mark
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Well said. They would either die, starve ,or leave if it wasn't made easy for them.


I would like to think some may actually straighten up before they die. Not all of them would for sure. They certainly wouldn't suffer long like enablers enable.


Good points.
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Mark June
We would have no issue gathering rock tossers according to these comments.
So much for the orphans, widows, and aliens among us.

Blessings,
Mark



I was raised on welfare. I am the example of how it is supposed to work. Take the hand up and do something with your life.

I have no problem helping the orphans, widows and, yes, even the aliens. I however am not interested in subsidizing laziness or otherwise carrying the general dead weight of society. I've paid enough taxes for many lifetimes and am tired of working hard so others don't have to.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mark June
We would have no issue gathering rock tossers according to these comments.


Blessings,
Mark


I would of been the one Jesus looked at in utter disgust and disappointment as I picked up the biggest rock I could find. Ya'll can wait for the next life to get your reward and see the evil punished, this is it for me. If the pearly gates are real the one with the book casting judgement will not know me.
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
I sent you a pm with all my contact info and address. Call or swing by I'm sure we have more in common than we disagree on I promise I wont say anything I won't say in person.

I have been know to be rude and arrogant so you have me there as well. And yet spot on on how we used to protect our tribe. Unfortunately we can no longer take matter into our own hands and we delegate those responsibilities to others and passed laws. That worked well enough for a time
Untill the system got watered down and corrupted. Now those laws are used as justification for passing other laws that crush our freedom and allow the government to overstep their boundaries.

I'm sorry but we can never lawfully kick in the doors of the local dealers and clean houses as appealing as that would be. Instead the cops will pick them up and a judge will turn them loose.

What's tha answer I dont know. I know drugs wont go away and more laws limiting our freedom are not the answer.

We can disagree I'm good with that it's what makes the world go around. But honestly can you not look past the personality issues with drugs and see the other negative things the war on drugs has brought us. And it's not like it's even 10% effective.



Y'all should smoke some pot when you meet. I encourage you to not drink. Alcohol will make your meeting way too volatile.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by Mark June
We would have no issue gathering rock tossers according to these comments.
So much for the orphans, widows, and aliens among us.

Blessings,
Mark



"en·a·bler


a person or thing that makes something possible.
"the people who run these workshops are crime enablers"
a person who encourages or enables negative or self-destructive behavior in another.
"being an enabler to an addict does more harm than good" "

Don't see anything about rock tossing?
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by Matt28
Originally Posted by Blaine County
Strike that. At least 10--maybe 15.

15 per quarter?? I don't think I have ever counted.

Listen to Boys from Oklahoma by Cross Canadian Ragweed. laugh
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:48 AM

Y'all are in rare fine form tonight.
crazy
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by Mark June
Y'all are in rare fine form tonight.
crazy

I blame it on the rap music I was listening to.
Posted By: Davisfur

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:51 AM

I don't agree with you very often Blaine County but I'll give you that one. I think a little electric lettuce would do them both some good. I've seen a lot of violent drunks in my life but never seen a violent pot head. Unless you get between them and the snacks lol.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Mark June
We would have no issue gathering rock tossers according to these comments.
So much for the orphans, widows, and aliens among us.

Blessings,
Mark


Yes, drug dealers do leave a lot of orphans, widows, and aliens among us.
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:58 AM

I guess you didnt see all the violent pothead blunt smokers burning down cities,looting and beating senior citizens?
Drugs are a horrible blight on society.Pot being one of the worst responsible for riots and violence and debauchery of all sorts,recently shown in all its glory from the streets of minneapolis,chicago and portland.
The word assassin is a derivative of Hashishin-cannabis smokers from the middle eastern drug cultures.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 02:01 AM

I doubt that was pot, Boco. Likely meth and fentanyl and whatever the latest thing is. Oh, and a paycheck from Soros.
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 02:03 AM

No the metheads are too f-d up to do any looting.and the fents are nodding off.
Guaranteed its the black pothead thug culture in full display.
Posted By: yukonjeff

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 02:06 AM

If it was caused by pot smokers why isn't Canada burn to the ground. Its legal in the whole country ?
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by yukonjeff
If it was caused by pot smokers why isn't Canada burn to the ground. Its legal in the whole country ?

Give it a few years, you guys are importing a plethora of future problems.
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 02:09 AM

Demographics and we actually have Law enforcement here.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by Boco
Demographics and we actually have Law enforcement here.


Gotta admit. Boco makes a feller smile often.
Posted By: fishnhunts

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by Boco
No the metheads are too f-d up to do any looting.and the fents are nodding off.
Guaranteed its the black pothead thug culture in full display.


So are you theorizing that the pot emboldened people(they weren't just black by the way) to loot and burn down cities?
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 03:38 AM

Nope,not theorizing.
Anyone with eyes can see whats going on.Not to mention all the other senses.
its a given trappers have innate powers of observation,but anyone can see what and who is doing the dirty deeds in the citys-it aint businessmen who have a couple hi-balls after work or a glass of wine with dinner.
If you cant see the thug drug culture for what it is,thats alarming.
Posted By: dkrug

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 03:53 AM

Subversion noun The undermining of the power and authority of an established system or institution. It kind of all starts with what you allow in your home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion

https://counter-currents.com/2019/10/tragedy-as-comedy/ blush
Posted By: rvsask

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 04:09 AM

Boco, I gotta say I feel you are delusional on this one.
Hate to break it to you but half of those businessmen are now sharing joints as opposed to buying hi balls. Even before it was legal I knew professionals from many walks of life who dabbled in the closet. Now they dabble openly and watch the drunks get violent, as always.
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 04:12 AM

Not the sucessful ones-they need brain cells to function and not be dumbed down all day with dope.
They dont call it Dope for nothing.

I worked with dope smokers-dozy bunch in more ways than one.
Posted By: yukonjeff

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 04:30 AM

Yes they do call it Dope for nothing. Booze make you more of a "Dope" than just about all other drugs.

I worked with drinkers that couldn't even show up for work and got fired. Pulled dozer keys from guys still drunk from the night before. The pot smokers need to be (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) tested to know they even use it.
Posted By: Boco

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 06:25 AM

BLAH BLAH-tell that to all the people who had their businesses looted and burned by the drug thugs.
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 06:34 AM

This topic has been discussed as many times and as long as people have been getting high. lol

“I ain’t hooked. I’ve been snorting coke for 20 years but I ain’t hooked.”

-Richard Pryor
Posted By: yukonjeff

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Boco
BLAH BLAH-tell that to all the people who had their businesses looted and burned by the drug thugs.


Those are communist trying to take over our government, paid by Soros. The leaders admitted it on camera.

They also drink I am sure, but I wouldn't blame it on the booze.
Posted By: ol' dad

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:21 PM

Does everyone remember all the looting and rioting that went on during Woodstock? Lol

Lazy smelly bums that didn't want to hold a job and looked for free handouts, maybe. Looting and rioting, not so much

Ol'dad
Posted By: Matt28

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Boco
BLAH BLAH-tell that to all the people who had their businesses looted and burned by the drug thugs.

This guy is like biden he talks but makes no sense and most of it is blah blah.
Posted By: Matt28

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by ol' dad
Does everyone remember all the looting and rioting that went on during Woodstock? Lol

Lazy smelly bums that didn't want to hold a job and looked for free handouts, maybe. Looting and rioting, not so much

Ol'dad

I dont think boco has ever met someone on meth, looting and stealing is what the drug is known for.
Posted By: DWC

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 01:51 PM

Stealing yes. But its usually by shoplifting or the cover of darkness. Maybe a quick armed robbery now and then. I dont think methheads are out throwing garbage cans through grocery store windows and lighting them on fire.
Posted By: H2ORat

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by DWC
Stealing yes. But its usually by shoplifting or the cover of darkness. Maybe a quick armed robbery now and then. I dont think methheads are out throwing garbage cans through grocery store windows and lighting them on fire.

SD must keep their methheads more tightly controlled than OR does.
Posted By: Turtledale

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 02:04 PM

Looting and burning. Molatov cocktails made from empty 40oz. Malt liquor bottles. Don't think their burning down buildings with a zigzag paper and a half gram of weed
Posted By: Davisfur

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/13/20 04:00 PM

If you look at the mug shots of many of the rioters that were actually arrested its not hard to tell at all what thier drug of choice is. Once you've seen a methhead they aren't hard to recognize, God knows we have enough of those thieving skeletons running around this state. They didn't get all those skin sores and rotten teeth from smoking pot.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/14/20 08:39 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/officials-seize-3-100-pounds-154028402.html

Anybody else wonder why they didnt find the semi trailer that had only drugs in it. You know? 20 tons of the stuff? Surely cartels wouldn't give BP a gift and cash to make them look good ....... and let the real shipment through?

Like all the rest of the government propaganda the 7 million dollars is exaggerated too. Who is going to pay that? Think it would leave room for profit? Use what is between your ears.

Quote
3,100 pounds of methamphetamine, fentanyl powder, fentanyl pills and heroin at the Otay Mesa commercial facility on Friday morning.


that might be enough to keep the dope fiends in say the city of Atlanta high for what? 2 weeks? Maybe?
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/14/20 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by yukonjeff
If it was caused by pot smokers why isn't Canada burn to the ground. Its legal in the whole country ?

Give it a few years, you guys are importing a plethora of future problems.



See something we agree on. I was cutting for wood yesterday when it hit me. If I'm not mistaken you are the tree trimmer currently just starting a nasty sounding divorce. That drove across the country to get away and tru to keep his sanity. If so and the x with the cheating, lying, and all the crazy that comes with drug use is not only very fresh but a gaping bleeding open wound. If so I truly understand your position and open willingness to murder drug dealers.

I want to be clear that I'm not supporting or advocating for druge use. Druge are a scourge on society and when people are strung out they are a total different person. The multiple fare reaching megitiave effect and cost to society is undeniable.

My stance is that the war on drugs is a failure. It will never work as long as there is a profitable market. That the unintended consequences of the failed war on drugs is loss of freedom and allows the government to overstep there bounds. I used the milk and beef as an example not as a straw man but becuse it's one thing that hits close to home and directly affects me and is clearly a direct result of the government feeling as they have the right to regulate what people put in there bodies which is a direct result of said war.There are quite a few other examples.

If my memory is right and that is your situation I commend you for keeping it together. I know you don't believe in God but I do so I will pray God will help you through your tough times and give you piece.
Posted By: DWC

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/14/20 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by H2ORat
Originally Posted by DWC
Stealing yes. But its usually by shoplifting or the cover of darkness. Maybe a quick armed robbery now and then. I dont think methheads are out throwing garbage cans through grocery store windows and lighting them on fire.

SD must keep their methheads more tightly controlled than OR does.


Ours have manners. Kristi sees to that.
Posted By: Rat Masterson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/14/20 12:56 PM

Just like many crimes we want it to stop but will not make the punishment so horrific to be a deterrent. Public hangings would slow down drug sales and use in a year.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/14/20 02:21 PM

Before we hang Americans why not blow up mexican meth labs and put defoliants on opium in afghanistan and coca in peru? Bomb cartel compounds . If the government was willing to do that then maybe hang addicts here. I dont see anything changing though. To many powerful people making to much money
Posted By: Rat Masterson

Re: My body my choice!!!! / The war on drugs - 10/14/20 02:36 PM

I'm good with that Danny, as an example after the Lindberg kidnapping the crime became a Federal offense with the death penalty thrown in. The US had just a few kidnappings in 30 some years until 68 when the death penalty went away.
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