35cals that should have been popular

it seems when ever I talk to a 35 cal owner be it 35 rem , 358win , 35 wheelen there aren't really that many more 35s

the 35 owners think the round is great

great terminal performance on deer , hogs , bear , moose

true most of them are relatively short sub 150 yard woods hunters

I have a theory as to why not more of them

the 35rem in a Model 8 Rem was a great concept but it hit the market in 1906

a John Browning design it had to compete with his earlier designs the 1886 ,1892 ,1894 and 1895 lever that Winchester had made so many of

the 30-30 had been out since 1895 and with an 11 year head start and a mountain of 1894 rifles 35 rem had an up hill battle from day 1

also the 45-70 if something needed to be shot with a heavier than 30cal bullet there were a lot of 45-70 guns and ammo around near the turn of the century

35 rem is on the market a few years and along comes WWI

shift to war time production lots of 30-06 also born in 1906

post war surplus

then the depression not long after

coming out of the depression we are almost into WWII shift to war time production again and post WWII economics of guns , when you can buy a mauser from a barrel for 15 dollars or a re-barreled Mauser for a bit more in 30-06 other good cartridges have a very hard time competing.

people who had a 30-30 shot 30-30 people who needed a gun , Americans have always been fairly budget minded bought one of the many re-barreld guns in 30-06 or many have bought 303brit or 8mm mauser , they need a rifle that at 25-50 yards would shoot a deer and while heavy these guns were very reliable , plentiful and lasted a long time in civilian use

most people really only needed a few rounds to hunt and seldom fired more than 1 at an animal they knew what was within their ability and they waited for that shot.


also figure in by the 1950s the 740 and then 742 were on the market in 30-06 and other cartridge's

by the 1950s 308 was the new Mid power cartridge it's interesting you seldom see much for 308 rifles in the used rack , people who hunt them generally love them. I have to admit I fall in this class now.

308 is light enough in the recoil and heavy enough in the power on target to not need much else in the woods for deer , bear , hogs , moose at woods hunting distances.

looking at the power

35 rem 200gr 2080fps 1921 fpe

30-30 170gr 2200fps 1827fpe

8x57 196gr 2182fps 2027fpe

308w 180gr 2620fps 2743fpe

30-06 180gr 2700fps 2913fpe

358 win 200gr 2475fps 2720fpe

35wheelen 200gr 2675fps 3177fpe


30-30 has 95% the energy of 35rem

308win has 94% the energy of 30-06

358win is almost exactly the same as 308win

not to hard to see when rifles in 30cal are plentiful and ammo easy to find why 35 just didn't catch on the same way


just my ramblings on the idea

what are your thoughts ?

One thing for sure,guys that shoot the .35's are adament in their choice that it's a great round that never got the respect it deserved.

I am sure it also had to do with what the purchasers were buying also , if Sears ordered 10K m94 in 30-30 a guy could order one from the catalog about as inexpensive as anything

there were likley gun shop owners who were 35 fans that lead to small pockets of 35 popularity

but I suspect the economics of it played a huge part in 30cal for hunting

Im quite fond of the 141 remington pump in .35 rem .and would like an AR10 in .358 win .

It always seemed to me once the 30/30 captured the market the party was pretty much over.Yes in today's world there's a gazillion calibers to choose from it seems old fashioned but for the average Joe,deer hunting in the woods and swamps of the northeast it's all they needed.They weren't gun cranks that experimented with everything new,they stuck with what worked for them.They're the types that didn't compare ballistic charts they stuck with tradition and what filled the freezer.

Other calibers ,either the old timers or military surplus had followings because in many cases they were free,either war trophies or hand me downs.New calibers like the .35's just didn't catch on.That's my theory anyway

I never understood why with the massive popularity of pump shotguns why more pump rifles didn't happen.

another really underappreciated gun the pump rifle

the only thing I can figure is most pump rifles bore the name Remington and anything Remington was always dealing with economic issues and often failure to really bring an awesome idea to fruition.

742 with an adjustable gas system . a bolt hold open not in the magazine and a few minor improvements to some components would have been an Awesome tool

they were a good tool , with a great concept but when Remington wouldn't accept their shortcomings and resolve. it cost them.

the 760 was and is a great tool , their price now reflects it.

Remington even had the idea of the 7615 it looked promising but I think it competed with cheap and available AR-15 parts that has the benefit of being mill spec and made in massive quantities. they could have made a 7610 that used AR10 mags in popular short action rounds , but again it seemed for one reason or another it fell short again.

bolt action rifles built to use the AR-15 and AR-10 mags enjoy reasonable success by a few different manufacturers

Don't forget the .350 Remington Magnum.

I inherited my father in law's 1954 336 Marlin in .35 Remington when he passed away almost 4 years ago. In my opinion, it's a great choice for NY woods hunting. It flat out puts them down! I don't recall him ever tracking a deer. The only drawback to owning it is finding ammo outside of deer season. I prefer my .270 for hunting fields but will grab the .35 without hesitation when hitting the woods. I think the paper numbers don't reflect the real world performance of this round. Is it better than a 30-30? Maybe not, but it is a real thumper with very low recoil.

I though about adding that to the list but though it was already dead Midway has 1 and only one ammunition for it 2 less than 35 rem

that is listed it is of course out of stock no back order

besides 223 rem which the army made common there are not a lot of cartridges with the REM in the name that have made great popularity. some of them were very good cartridges like 260rem

7mm rem mag , 357 rem mag and 44 rem mag have done very well mostly because other companies than Remington chambered their guns in them.

I feel very confident in my .35 Rem out to 200 yards. I don't at all believe it is a sub 150 yard rifle.

With handloading, you can increase the velocity of the .35 Rem, too. 2,200 fps with a 200 grainer is no sweat with modern powders and rifle. Also, the ability to shoot at stout 220 or even 250 grain bullet puts the 35 Rem where it is a reasonable choice for elk or even moose. Using the heavier bullet it has a noticeable increase in knockdown power over a .30-30.

I wonder if some of it is the Beta VS VHS effect

Sony had the superior product but wanted to be the only maker of it

VHS was an inferior product that took a decade to get to the same 4 head audio quality as beta but won out being cheap and good enough for the average joe

GREENCOUNTYPETE - I see my favorite gun magazine writer, Ed Hall, has retired from Fur-Fish-Game magazine. Maybe you should throw your hat in the ring to be their new gun editor.

I was actually referring to the hunters them selves and not the gun or round. Woods hunters who can seldom even see beyond 75 yards much less 150 yards and not that it wasn't a capable cartridge at 200 yards.

while I can easily shoot 200 yards quite accurately especially if given a few seconds to take a knee I have yet to actually shoot a deer at greater than 125 yards and that was clear across a small hay field close to the longest area of visibility I see in most of my hunting.

The bullet selection wasn’t the greatest back then either compared to 308 or 338. A lot more choices today though.

If I could only have one deer killer it would be my marlin in 35 rem.

35 is a casters dream in many ways

lots of bearing surface and velocities not exceeding what lead can take especially lead with a gas check in 35rem or 358 win in full power cartridges

hard hitting one game

Once the 45 caliber was officially replaced as the official government caliber in the first .30 govt aka 30/40 Krag we started the total acceptance as .30 caliber as the do all caliber. Not just the US either. The British Empire settled on .303, the Russians on 7.62x54R, Germans on 8mm, Japan 7.7mm and we eventually went 30/06.
The move was on for a universal mid range, flat shooting caliber worldwide.

The avid and professional hunting community has always been on the look out for cartridges and calibers that dump animals right there. In the days of simple lead core bullets the larger calibers aka the medium bores, .33 to .40 reigned in delivering mass on target if not what we've come to expect in modern bullet construction and ballistics. Hence the lingering adoration for many of these calibers and the fact that nothing has changed in mass on target other than better bullet performance and ballistics.

The average Joe meat hunter though is not as avid in his choice of calibers and will purchase whatever is available at a reasonable cost that works.

As far as I am concerned, the 35 Rem is the perfect brush gun. I know James isn't a big believer in deer drives but my father in law put a lot of meat in the freezer blocking the end with his little 35 Rem lever gun.

I got another 35 Rem Marlin last Saturday. Middle one in the picture.

we did a lot of drives , put a lot of meat in the freezer , we were restricted to shotguns or the 35 might well have been used, before the restriction 32win spl was a favorite of some in the family if you could shoot a slug accurate to 75 yards there was deer hanging by sundown

when my son started hunting I spent a bunch of time getting him to be fast and accurate enough.

3-4 targets with numbers set at different distances , walk slowly down the line of targets at 25, 40 , 55 75 yards approximately and call out a number he had to hit he paper plate with that number with a slug he had 5-6 seconds to shoot or I would call no deer , he disliked this drill , but when he shot his first deer at 12 he understood , nice doe ran right out of the junipers saw him and froze about 25 yards , he busted the shoulder before she could decide which way she wanted to run

it is about learning to be smooth good muscle memory , eye on target , gun comes to shoulder so your never take your eye off the target when the sights are on squeeze

shooting trap is good practice you start with your gun safety on down at your waist or low ready so your practicing getting the gun to the shoulder.

probably wasn't 4 seconds from the time he saw her head hopping over junipers till she stopped just out of the junipers and was down

looks good , low power optic mounted low on the receiver , that one looks like it has been carried a lot , I bet it has some stories.

Don’t forget
The 356 Win.
Mine is a Marlin 336ER it came factory with Ballard rifling (although the barrel says micro groove) It shoots cast like a dream.

I guess I always thought of 356 as 358 in a rimmed package

the 307 to the 308

I am sort of surprised to see one in a 336 action

but I realized the 307 and 356 are loaded to lesser pressure than 308 and 358 I suppose because of the guns they chambered them in

That’s right, they fall in between the 35 Rem and the 358 Win in performance. I had all three of those calibers and kept the 356 win because it is a little odd and fun to shoot.
Brass is a little hard to find but I form my brass from 444 Marlin.

When most gunsmithing students were building 338 WinMags I figured if I was burning that much powder I will throw more lead.
Soooooooo I built a 358 Norma Mag.

Whiteoak, i was gonna post that i know a man with a sweet .356 !

There's also the old 35 winchester iirc

I got this Remington 7600 35 Whelen from Dad when he passed. Got his Marlin 336 35 Remington to. He was a 35 cal. fan.

I had a Rem 7600 in .35 Whelen. Love the cartridge but hated the rifle. Sold it.

I decided I have no use for pump rifles. I don't like the wobble induced by the forearm slide. Can't rest it on anything and get a firm fix on the target.

Currently looking for a .35 Whelen in a good bolt gun. Also would like to get an old Browning auto, maybe a Grade III or IV.

Jim

Never knew Marlin chambered a rifle in .356

I agree with you Jim. I don't care much for the pump myself. A bolt action would be much better in that caliber.

yessir, from '83-86.
Win chambered the Model 94's from '82-86.

Great thread. My first deer rifle was a 336 in 35 rem bought at Bills house of guns near Medford. Anyone here remember it?

I no longer own that rifle but I sure wish I did. I do, however, own a contender with a 35 rem barrel and a Burris 2x7 scope.

I believe Bills House Of Guns was on Hwy 17 Northeast of Merrill. Bought a 22 revolver called a Buffalo Scout as a trapping gun Been out of business for years. Think he got caught selling guns in the wrong places.

I think the pump lends it's self better to unsupported shooting often fast and close like standing off a deer drive where most of what your shooting are runners.


the issue is there are just not a lot of 35's made and Donor rifles for a re-barrel aren't as cheap and plentiful as they once were.

Good comparison.

My first .35 was the Marlin 336, however, my father converted me to the Remington 141 and it's predacesser. Model 14. Beautiful guns!

The 35 has always been a game stopper. Hornady leverevolution bullets make a great round even better.

I actually built a 35 for an Encore. Took a 375 Rem ultra and necked it down to 35. It will kill pretty much anything. So proud of it's performance that I put a 5.5-22X56mm NightForce on it. Tack driver to way out there. Pushing a 225 Barnes at 3500.