Retirement.

So 62 is earliest. Can retire. ? I am 60 an an 4 months plus old, I like retire now an just work part time but not afford to unless soacil security. Starr feel old, I hope I around in couple years. Yet without major health trouble. Health can go quick when older. Look obituaries, at ages. Not something I like talk about, I gonna ask for vacation from 1 job tommorow for few days in first week trapping, if not get. Going be very unhappy.

Our own mortality is something no one wants to dwell on, coonman! Just take care of yourself and you'll be around for awhile yet.

Nobody evah said how many years..were in a life time.

You are not financially ready to retire. I can tell that just by your posts on here. If you want to retire you’re going to have to live on nothing and start saving aggressively In an IRA or 401k for the next five to ten years. And I mean aggressively, the legal maximum the government will allow, which I believe This year is 18,000 a year in a 401k and 7,000 a year in an IRA. I think you can even do a little extra at your age as catch up.

Young people on here, take note. 60 might seem way far away, but you gotta start saving now if you’re ever going to retire. This would be a much different conversation if coonman had saved 15 percent of his income in a 401k for the last 30 years. He would be a millionaire. He wouldn’t have to worry about his truck breaking down, cause he could just go pay cash for a brand new one. He could never work another day in his life if he felt like it.

Coonman, I’m not trying to be down on you. I just want the young folks here to understand that THEY control their future and retirement, not the government or social security.

Truth

Dave, we hope you are around in a couple years too. Hang in there brother.

That’s all fine and dandy until the stock market dips and you lose $80K overnight!!! If you’re retirement is based off SS then you’re pretty much bolted, unless everything is paid for.

I am roughly 18 months from retirement but I have sunk 20% or more into my “401k” for 20+ years, have invested heavily outside of that and have a simple lifestyle. On top of that I plan to work part time for beer and bait money.

Retiring at 62 puts on a longer SS window but a lower annual payment for life and you still have 3 years until Medicare eligibility. When you retire early or before full age you will get deducted $2 of SS for every dollar over a specific amount so working part time is workable but you need to balance SS and work income so you don't lose SS. I don't know your health or financial status but to me I would find a job that pays respectable but more importantly you can physically do for 2-5 years or more so you can build more retirement income for the years when you can not work or work only minimally. Also think about even with Medicare your insurance with a supplemental will probably higher payments than you are figuring a this time.

Bryce

160user, nobody gets hurt on a rollercoaster unless they jump off. Stock market is the same way. This last dip fully recovered in 52 days, so unless you got scared and took your money out you lost zero dollars. If you’re wisely invested you can ride the ups and downs of the market with zero possibility of losing money.

Was told at 62 old, can get $1000 roughly after taxes. Soacil security, not much a month, can work up to $18 k a year without worries deductions, what happens in county home ? They take all your SS money ? Yes life is z gamble. Some guys go be quite old with out run docter. I think i get point about now. Where really got start. Watch Heath close. Something could come up in future. I can rember few younger people go from cancer

Last I read, something like 95% of those over 65 in America are not financially able to do much more than pay basic bills.
No road trips.
No health care options.
Basic subsistence for the remainder of their days.

It's safe to say most people (95%) spend all they have as they go.

Nada!!

Blessings,
Mark

I agree that one should play the long game but I would never say there is "zero possibility of losing money." I'm generally heavily invested (not now because I waited until early September and then went to cash) and anyone who invests should know that you could in fact lose some of it.

If he asked me I would tell Coonman that he needs to keep working and stop spending.

I have a question for all who support retiring early. Once you have collected all the money you and your employer have put into S.S. plus a reasonable amount of interest are you not on public welfare like everyone else who receives money they have not earned? This is a question I have thought about every time someone supports retiring early.

We have argued about this before on T-Man.

Yes. Same goes for SSDI.

Maybe zero possibility of losing money is a bit too far, but certainly very small possibility. If you’ve picked good growth stock mutual funds based on thier track record over the last 20-30 years the chances of losing money is almost zero. Now if you’re playing single stocks, you could lose everything in a hurry.

You and I have the same advice for coonman though. Live on nothing and save aggressively for a while.

I obviously missed that thread, maybe before my time. Thanks

I plan on retiring early, though not on social security. I have two 401ks, the larger one is on track to have $500,000 in it by the time I turn 50, the smaller one only about $100,000, and that’s if I never add anything to them, which I obviously am going to keep contributing. I figure on retiring at around 60 with about 2 million in those accounts, which at a ten percent average rate of return will give me a $200k annual income and the government can keep its poorly run social security program. I’ll live on the 200k and leave the 2 mil to my kids and they won’t have to depend on government retirement either. I also plan on having a paid for home by then, so I won’t have any expenses except healthcare and utilities.

I hope all goes as you have planned. I was referring to individuals who state they are getting S.S. as soon as possible to get that free money. For people who have worked and saved to meet their needs I have nothing but respect. Good for you.

What constitutes a reasonable amount of interest?

Work until 65 when Medicare begins. Try to defer your SS until then as well.

I retired around 10 years ago,at age 56,but I still do a lot of things on my own that churn out money.But I dont do it because I need or even want the money,it is stuff I just like to do and the money is like gravy.3 pensions,no debt,too many toys vehicles etc,and more money than I will ever use or need,so I give it away.

Boco, you are where I want to be at your age. Took a lot of years of hard work and sacrifice to get where you are, hats off to you

I hope to work until I drop.
I never have understood the idea of retiring and driving an RV to Arizona for the winter. Boring.

Bob I really hope all goes well for you in 2008 and 2009 I lost 45% of my savings you never know what's coming around the corner. I'm not complaining just diversify diversify! And I'm slid now. And yes I'M 50 ISH and retirered but have found a knew job with grass based farming.

Let me send you my paypal address.

I have retired from employment twice and also two small businesses and my first retirement came at 59.5 years of age and the 2nd at 66. I keep doing a lot of things none now that do anything more than cover some outdoor expenses and pay for my contribution to the hobby farm. The neat thing about being financially independent is that work is not really work if you don't need to do it when things get sticky. My family always complained about my being frugal and saving etc. etc. What we enjoy now due some long term planning and not taking too many risks is a higher income retired then I ever made working.

Bryce

Iam leaving this earth..the same way ,I came in. Red Faced and broke.

I was in a Mutual Fund and had over 200 K, in 2008 the fund manager said he went broke, filed bankruptcy and fled the country. That was my retirement to subsidize my Soc Sec. It didn't work out. A few years before that I had sold my business for $110K. The people that bought it I got 10K up front at closing and had 10 months to make first payment... well they wreck the equipment and ran off leaving me nothing. I had to file bankruptcy to get out from under the crap they left me with.

So the moral of the story is... "The best laid plans of mice and me often goes astray."

Garry-

Actor, I’m sorry about your misfortune but you brought both those things on yourself, by not using a reputable, big name broker and by making a bad deal to sell your business on a payment plan.

JD hornet, unless you pulled your money out you didn’t lose a cent. The market has since quadrupled from what it was before the 2008 crash.

Don't forget your property and school taxes or you won't have a house

the key to early retirement is start young , i took both my daughter[ at age 20] to my finical guy help them set up a account , one is putting money in the other spends money before she has it ,

coonman, I still think you should get a CDL if you're a good enough driver and do that for a few years. Your SS check is never going to be much given what you said so find a better job than what you have, stick it out until at least your Medicare eligible, and then take SS at your full-retirement. If you reach full SS retirement, then you can work as much as you want, when you want, without having to worry how it impacts your SS pay. Good luck, you'll need it...

I don't know. It is a conceptual statement.

It says you are 31 years old. Is that right? Also, what do you do for a living?

I ask because you write as if you are absolutely certain about all things investing, finance and retirement planning.

By the time I got retirement age, I wouldn't be surprised if the earliest you can go on SS is 72...if it's still around.

I started out with nothing,,and through carefull planning,,I still have most of that left.

My offer still stands on that 22.

If you plan your finances right the last cheque you write before you slide into the grave should bounce.

Amen on the second paragraph! Luckily, I did just what it says to do. I've been retired now for17 yrs. am 75 yrs. old, and far from rich, but financially comfortable. (Still trapping, too.)

nope but it needs addressed, like in paying for your funeral yrs beforehand, then YOU get to pick everything involved, AND save your heirs thousands $$$$.

I was blessed Dad did this 20 yrs before he died. Mourning and making those decisions don't go well, often...so mine is paid for now, too, so my family won't have to make any of those decisions while mourning.

ALSO, we all need a MASTER LOCATOR. It is a book/file with ALL bank account and insurance company and investment co phone and acct #'s ..another effort Dad made that made our lives so much easier, not having to hunt for any of this info.

I took early SS retirement.

If I am lucky enough to die in the next ten years, I win.

That’s right. And no, I don’t have a financial degree, if that’s what you’re getting at. I just care deeply about my financial health and my families financial health after I die, so I’ve spent thousands of hours studying and reading everything I can get my hands on about investing, business, and wealth.

Fair enough and I applaud you for thinking about it so intensely. There are a couple of investors on this site way more knowledgeable than me but here's some free advice from a guy that has, as an adult, lived through four recessions, four oil busts and is a productive earner, disciplined saver and active investor:

You appear to be on the right track but you don't know everything about the markets, business or wealth. None of us do. In other words, don't be so certain!

IMO, expecting a ten per cent return or yield from ones investments is being somewhat optimistic.

Mr. Bob,

Any chance you are not accounting for the fact that CM may be "hard scrabble" and knows how to grind out an existence?

Good point. I have found that internet investment return calculators don't always paint a realistic picture.

There is always much to learn. I listen to or read around ten to twelve hours a week of financial material because I don’t know it all. I do know there are two things that are absolute truths though. 1- if you don’t save money you’ll never have any, and 2- 100% of repossessions and foreclosures happen on assets with debt attached to them. So, if you do nothing else, save money and avoid debt and you’re well on your way to being financially secure.

Big brownie, my assumption of a ten percent return is based on what my 401k has done since I opened it. Some years it was less, some years more, but the average has been 10.2%. This year so far my rate of return is 9.65%

Well if he wants to struggle for the rest of his life then I guess he can retire whenever he wants.

coonman could have his own reality tv show from his posts here on tman. I'm not trying to make fun of him, just stating observational data. I wish him a tuck load of 4xl prime Iowan coon, I think that will make him a smile, for a bit...

Bob, you can't compare what your retirement plan is doing compared to someone else's. What do you do for a living? I think I remember and you make probably 4 times what Coonman does. He could've put 15% away in a 401K but if he's making $10 to $12 an hour he's probably not going to have a million bucks in his retirement plan.
Also I know you want to trap but is this time off you want from the machinist job paid? If it's not you'll most likely not make as much trapping as you would working part time. How many coon are you going to catch? 50 to 100? So say $300 worth how much gas are you going to burn? Is it worth it?

Coonman you ask this question about every other month. Are you looking to get a different answer?

Good luck in whatever you do.

My offer still stands on that 22.
[/quote]



You mean this one?



Still looking for one of these?

Okay, so here’s the math. At $12 an hour, you put away 15%, or $288 a month, which is $3,456 a year into an S&P 500 fund, which if you do your research has a 50 year track record of earning 10% annually. If you were to do that for 30 years you’d end up with $625,340.48

So you’re right, not a millionaire, but 625k will produce an annual income of just over 60k a year in perpetuity. Do you think he could live on 60k a year? I think so, seeing as 12 an hour at 40 a week is only just over $23k

Hey Bob, what industry are you working in there in Nevada?

I pulled my money because I could still afford to retire not at the level I had thought but then I don't need a bunch of money to live on. I've always said if your mortgage is paid for you are pretty much retired. I'm having fun doing what I want to do, farming trapping being available to and for my family. If I would of stayed in the market to let my account quadruple as you say, my quality of life would not be the same. I got enough. When you get older you will understand time with loved ones is the most important and if the markets are not soaring when you are ready to retire you can make a decision make more money or retire on what you have. Not saying which is right for you just I made a decision that was right for me and my family.

You withdrew all of your money from the market? Why not continue to let it grow, pulling out only what you want to live on in a given year? It’s not an all or nothing equation. The point of investments is to create income. If you pull it all out you pull the plug on your income

And you’re 100% right. I do understand the value of time with my family and the freedom of retirement. That’s why I’m so intensely focused on it.

I currently do landscaping. I’m trying to get on with the natural gas company, but those are both short term plans. When I get the capitol saved up I plan to go into business for myself growing landscaping trees and plants.

Not sure what the industry I work in has to do with math though

I wasn't implying that it did. I was just curious because I remembered you worked for an oil company when you lived in Montana. There is an oil industry in Nevada, so I thought you might still be involved. My cousin has a business in Nevada closely related to landscaping. I think he does pretty well.

No, I promised myself if I ever got out of the oil industry I’d never go back. I hate that work, but I did it cause my family needed me to. Now that we’ve put ourselves in a place financially where I don’t HAVE to earn that kind of money I’m searching for work that is fulfilling in more ways than a paycheck

What didn't you like about it. I think I have a pretty good idea because I spent a little under a decade in Montana when I was your age.

You just lost your T Man Financial Planner credentials. You're 31. If you are skilled oilfield you would be crazy to not ride the next boom. Income is the biggest driver of wealth and you are young enough to pile up some cash--assuming we have another boom or boom lite.

Source: former oilfield worker (low skilled) now energy lawyer

Many things. I hated how backhanded the whole industry is. Much of the time I had bosses over me who didn’t know squat about the job but got there because their high school buddy’s brother is the CEO, you know, stuff like that. And when you’re the crew foreman anything that happens is your fault, even when it really isn’t. Every person out there is ready and willing to throw you under the bus to get one more step up the ladder. I can’t even remember how many times a superior told me to do something, I did it, and then his superior got mad and all of a sudden that’s not what they told me to do, now I’m the idiot. I hated working 14-20 hours a day six days a week because some guy in the office decided we had a deadline and my boss doesn’t have the backbone to tell em we don’t have enough people to reasonably make it happen. Or he just didn’t care, cause he’d be home by 5 anyways. Get the job done no matter what it takes because money. Doesn’t matter if you have to lift a 300 pound valve into place by hand, figure it out, our equipment is busy. Can’t get it? Well you’re just worthless then.

I could go on for a long time about it lol. Also, I HATE cold weather, so that didn’t help matters.

Blaine, you are welcome to your opinion, but I think you’re wrong. Studies show that workers who do work they enjoy are better at their jobs, and in turn earn more. On the other hand, do work you hate and you’ll always be mediocre at best, with mediocre wages.

I was pretty sure you were in the oil field making big money before. It's easier to put a lot away when you're making a lot to begin with.

Keep in mind the stock index, the S&P 500 had a lost decade that returned -2% 1999 - 2009. It can happen and for a long period of time.
Of course 1999-2009 was largely before you were investing. It's still the best bet but it can also dive.

Also,79% of millionaires in the USA did not inherit money. Over 60% of millionaires in the United States didn’t average over $100k annual income. 1/3 of the millionaires in the US NEVER once cleared 6 figures a year in their working life. So while income is important, what you do with your income is more important.

Another thing to keep in mind, the current state of the stock market has a lot to do with the trillions of borrowed stimulus money sloshing around.

That’s the mistake investors often make. Looking at what is happening in the market today, instead of researching the stock markets past records and using those to project into the future.

Mom just got quite defensive with me a few minutes ago when I said something to this effect about her situation.

That said I am considering taking the penalty and removing some money out of my 401 to pay off a house I'm renting. I think if the Democrats win markets will tank 50%+ and take some time to recover. So those losses will more than off set the penalty. In 5 years I will have got my money back on rent including the penalty. In 4.5 years after that so in 10 years that I will have made 20k and 5k a year there after. Also at any time I can sell that asset.


Edit: Everyone opinion is this good move or not? This would be the equivalent earning my investment or doubling it every 4.5 (well 5 years with taxes). And keeping a 75k asset.

I have never forgotten the first company retirement seminar I attended as a freshly minted engineering graduate. His pitch was, if we invested x amount of dollars for the length of our career, we could retire with a million dollars in the bank. Of course he was right. The real question was what we could buy in 40 years with a million dollars. I can tell you, in hindsight, it is considerably less than I thought those many years ago.

I have no interest in retiring. I like what I am doing but I am cutting back on some things. On December 22 I will go apply for social security and take my chances. I have no 401k or IRA, Never had any stock or anything like that. I just have my health and a desire to keep working for a while yet. I did the math; I can get my SS and still work because of being self employed I have a TON of deductions and show little income. I hunt and fish for a living so it's all tax deductible.

I made this decision when I was in my 20's and I knew I would probably get to this point and be where I am now. Barring a stroke of luck, I would never have a lot of money in reserve. And I wouldn't change it even though I have little savings and my net worth is tied up in real estate equity. I'll use the SS income to pay off the rest of the real estate and I can easily make enough to be comfortable working part time.

I decided in my 20's that there was no amount of money that can compensate you for spending your life doing something you don't like. Advice to the younger people: 1) Do what you love and let the rest sort itself out. 2) Live frugally, avoid debt and put a little away. Doesn't have to be a lot. 3) DEBT will steal your life away.

My wife has never made much money either she spent most of her life being an amazing mother. She now works for a nonprofit so that tells you about her income. But we are careful with funds and love to travel so we save for vacations. In 6-8 years we will have a place down south in the winter, and our lake place will be for the summer here in Minnesota. Believe me if we can do that on the amount of money we have made through our lives, ANYONE can do it.

Hope this helps you coonman, it's never too late to make good choices.

True but when on that history have there been the massive government bail outside and infusions like we have had in the last 12 years?.

That should chang things but how and how much?

One thing I've noticed in my lifetime about people who worry their whole life about saving for retirement is, they never "retire" and enjoy the fruits they gave up when they were in their prime. To the day they die, they worry about money to the point I have to wonder if they need to be screwed into the ground they're so tight.

Either that, or they never enjoyed life and die before they can spend any of their savings or their body is so wore out they can't do a thing they thought they would once they retired.

Yep, ya gotta save some, but if its on your mind so bad you don't live while tour able you might never get the chance.
Tomorrow isn't promised.

At your age Bob, time is your friend. A lot of investors don't have that luxury. Apparently a lot of professional investors are keeping a tremendous amount of cash on the sidelines right now. Not a bad thing to keep in mind.

down on y

Any chance you are not accounting for the fact that CM may be "hard scrabble" and knows how to grind out an existence? [/quote]

Well if he wants to struggle for the rest of his life then I guess he can retire whenever he wants.
[/quote]

One man's struggle is another man's peaceful, stress-free existence. I can tell you that from someone who left the rat race in the 1980s. Numbers are only numbers. I know a guy who has 150 million in the bank and is more stressed about money than most people who could probably qualify for food stamps but don't want them.

Just a thought that came to mind as I was reading this. There are such incredibly wide gaps in wealth in this country, more than at any other time in history it seems. A friend of mine sold his medical business for I have no idea how much, but it was a lot. He called me last week to tell me that he decided to take up bowhunting. So he bought a new bow and 480 acres of hunting land.

Maybe he'll let me hunt there when I have nothing to eat.

The last reason you mentioned was the cold. I figured that and the wind would be your main two reasons. LOL. The other things you mentioned are not peculiar to the oil industry. You will find those situations in every industry.

I have read all the posts on this thread-- I agree with most of them however I think there is one point that is missing from this discussion. I am an old guy, worked on three different continents, from top of a saddle horse to corporate boardrooms and much in between. I say that only to qualify my point. That point is you dont know. Nobody knows if they have 30 years left or 30 minutes. Nobody knows if their investments will be viable 30 years from
now. Nobody knows even whats going to happen next week let alone way down the road. What we do know is you have now. Do not wait until "retirement" to do what you have dreamed of -- do it now. I knew quite a few men that worked jobs they hated so they could have a good "retirement" only to die very shortly after they retired. The man that is blessed and prosperous is doing what he enjoys. Take care of your family, pay your bills and do some things you enjoy NOW

Very good point. Which is why there are three things you must always do with money once your necessities are taken care of. You have to save some. You have to give some. You have to spend some.

think of giving, saving, and spending as muscles. Each one must be worked out and exercised in order to maintain a healthy relationship with money. If you spend your whole life never saving, it will be difficult for you to save when you need to. If you never spend a dime on anything that isn’t essential, you’ll never be able to enjoy your money. If you never give any money away, you’ll always have trouble Being a generous person. The giving portion extends far beyond money and into your spiritual and emotional health but that’s another topic

Ks wolfer, you’re very right, you have to live in the now, but do it wisely. Don’t steal your future to fund your now. A lot of people do die before retirement, but a lot more live to retirement and spend their last years in poverty because they didn’t plan on a future.

One of the first threads I ever read on this forum was one over SSDI. I was surprised at how many admitted to milking it.

Agreed--- failure to plan is a plan for failure--- just keep in mind that the future is uncertain

Best advice I ever got "You don't make a living ,you live on what you make."

That $18,000 is total gross household income. If anyone else living in your house has an income that counts against the $18k.

If you will be getting a W2 form for working after retirement social security and medicare taxes will still be deducted.

If you choose Medicare part B coverage the monthly deduction from gross SS benefit is about $100.

So they take out your soacil security check on taxes. ? Well have to see how doing at the time. About retire 62, never know. Am single, some guys work long time. Some not, Peter out late 50 s or mid 60s,late 60 s is when watch out

Bob weren't you in eastern montana at one time?? There was a bob on here, that was from eastern montana and he worked in the oil industry.

when did they start taking taxes out of your ssa check?

Dave, I know you won't listen but if you are only going to get about 1k a month at 62 you can't afford to start Social Security.

The cold hard facts are you should wait until you are 67.

When you get to be 75 that 1,000 a month won't even pay your taxes and medicare.

Bob, sounds like you are doing a great job saving and investing. Dont pay the naysayers any mind.....

Negative, Steven 49er.
Maybe that works for you, Maybe not.

Remember there are five full years of income when you are still young enough to enjoy it, before age 67. My accountant did the math. In my case age 83 is where the lines cross.

BTW, Bob:
You present some pretty decent information. My suggestion to you is try to mix in a little reading about diplomacy and people skills in with your Wall Street Journal.

How old are you,,and how old are you going to be when you die?

TRex, is you first name Dave? If it is I apologize if you thought I was referring to you. The OP's name is Dave, from reading his posts over the years he's not going be able to live of his social security when he gets too old to work. That is all he's going ot have

Retirement is something non of us will ever have to worry about.

The new Socialist government will take care of all our needs, cradle to grave.

Relax.

At least that's true for most of us. Bob, you might want to keep all that loot kind of transparent, so as not to have the government grab it.

What difference does it make how old I am, lets just say I'm in the last half of my life. Again, Dave's only retirement is going to be his SS and maybe a small 401k.

If he gets a 1k a month from SS and this is a complete long shot another 1k from a 401 type plan the question is can one live on that.

The answer is no.

Depending on where you live 1g a month could be way more than you need to live good.

Not in the USA.

Stephen 49er, I agree with you on coonmans situation. If he had a paid for home, a 3 to six month emergency fund saved and no debt whatsoever maybe he could survive on 2k a month, but by reading his posts here I know that’s not his situation. He wouldn’t be able to really live, but he could survive.

Who said he has to stay in the USA.
Can you not recieve your retirement payments anywhere in the world?

the poverty line in the continental US is currently defined as $12,760 income per year for a one person household.

I have a Brother in law that lives in the remnants of what I suspect may have once been a trailer home. He has electricity. No water. The only heat is from a wood stove that he stokes with the occasional downed tree he finds on the road. A large part of his food is road kill that hangs from a tree outside his front door. It sits there all winter, and he just takes off a slice now and then. Showers and water are no problem. He goes down to the township fire station, where they accommodate him.

The poor guy can't work, because it is too stressful. Therefore he gets money from SSI. He needs someone to take care of him, so the government pays his wife to be his caretaker.

So, at age 60 he has in effect been retired for more than 30 years, and makes several thousand dollars/month. I know he doesn't save it, so, I suspect he has a supplier or two that live pretty well.

Don't worry about retirement; the government will take care of you.

That’s a sad state of affairs. No thanks, I’ll pay for my own retirement, I like running water lol

With Covid, there are not a lot of places in the world that will accept us.

Geez, does a cardboard box in an alley constitute a "household"?

Boco, Yes we can live in a foreign country and draw social security.

Coonman isn't going to.

We have running water here-you run down to the river in your shorts chop a hole in the ice,scoop a bucket of water and run back up to the camp.And hope Savell aint hiding behind a tree and sees you in your shorts.

Why? Are you afraid he will get a picture of your skid marks?

Total income tax owed is calculated when you file your return. Unless you file a joint return they may not know of other household income. If they do know they will include it in the calculation. You pay it when you file your return unless you instruct SS to deduct it monthly from your SS check.

He'll do whatever he wants to, but thanks to you and a few people here giving good advice that perhaps some of the other readers of this post can use.

I've known a few that have retired to Central America or the Caribbean based on the cost of living. They seem to really enjoy it.

I’m good lol I don’t have thick skin and body hair like you canucks, I’d freeze my bbs off! I’m gonna stay way south of you, where it hardly ever gets cold enough to freeze the river. I did my time in the north, I find it much more pleasant when the temps are above zero

True....A buddy retired at 50 and moved to Alaska. He says he spends between $400 and $600 per month...and has to really try hard to spend $800. Said he's happier now than he's ever been. His pension is close to 10 times what he spends. He has no use for it. I spent a week with him last fall. I never felt I needed more than what he has. Plenty of people around the US that feel their best living frugal and simple.

To each his own.

I don't think it is the best for us to down play the need for adequate income when the poster is asking for ways to help manage for the future. Everyone has a different standard of living and for good reasons. Keeping one healthy so one can work when and as needed is crucial when other sources of income, or wealth are not ample. Staying healthy also lowers health care costs as well. For Coonman maybe taking early SS and finding work that is adequate but falls below the income ceiling may be a good option for him. Being a single adult also makes the situation easier but also makes it more risky in some ways.

Bryce

Coonman are you taking notes?

Hopefully everybody either has a new roof , can do their own roof or has the money put away for somebody to do it. I am retiring in March 2021 and am having a roof put on now ---roughly 40 square for $14k. Plus I am doing new siding for about $10k with me doing that part. My wife and I kinda live pretty basic and there is no such thing as debt free at least in NYS. I have never had a mortgage since I built my house for cash out of pocket. But my school/property taxes are $7600/yr, house ins, car ins, phone, internet, cable, groceries, gas, etc are all bills that ppl have even when so called debt free. I will have approx. $1900/mo SS & roughly $2400/mo retirement. We bank my wifes retirement now so I think we will be fine and not even touch our 401k. Was planning on giving my son & daughter each $100k towards building houses also.

Thanks Dad ^

Coonman Don't listen to all these old stiffs that pinched their pennies all their life like Mr Scrooge and now going to live it up when they are 70.

Here's what you do. Find a third world country that you like .( Most are better than the US these days anyway) and move there when you retire with your grand a month and live like a king.

Since you are single and American, It will be one time in your life that your White Privilege will shine through. Find a hot wife and when you get really old you can hire a live in helper to wipe your butt for about $100 a month.

Your welcome.

Bryce the biggest risk I see is inflation. It won't take long to erode the buying power of $1000 a month.

YukonJeff, I've never been accused of being called a penny pincher.

Heck coonman, you being a eligible batchelor,find you a well to do widow women that don't mind you being retired early. One that looks at you as a man that needs to be kept and taken care of. Get on the internet or put an add in the paper. Them women are out there,looking and hoping to be with a man like you. That would take care of you living comfortably in retirement.

great suggestion 88, might even have the old man's treasure of a pick up still around, god rest his sole.

Sounds like the Philippines. Seriously have a couple of guys I work with that took Philippine wifes and one moved there. Wifes are half their age and very experienced being former prostitutes.

Not for me but not judging. Some south American countries have low cost of living also

Neat pictures Steve is that your Caribo.

I have to wonder .... how many of these guys saving a million dollars for when they are old, are going to end up giving it all to a rest home, drug companies, and hospitals in the end.

Or for the kids new drug habit when you pass and a few hundred K drop in their lap.

X2 ................Exactly what my Dad taught me!

1- long term care insurance.
2- a trust that states nobody whose life is not in order gets a dime.
3- income producing investments.

All of the problems you bring up are easily solved with proper planning.

no jeff,they just wander free range there at our swimming hole.

If your around when 70 an able to do anything to enjoy ur money hopefully, look obituaries. At ages, something don't like think.about, age creeps up on you, not sure what the difference was on 62 to 65 on ss? Maybe $300, 66-67, push it for some, I know guys that just want get out hole factory bad an retire. Some factories. Not all , some are quite nasty,

Coonman-what do you like to do when not working or trapping if you dont mind me asking?
Do you go out for a cold one with the guys on saturday? or any other stuff you like to do?

Big mouth Bob ain't been in this game for but a decade.

He's in good shape now, but, let's see how he does with the bunch of challenges he'll be seeing in the future.

I wish him luck, but, I would no sooner take his advise than that........ Suzy Ordman.(sp?)

Weird reaction.

Probably true, but, experience means a lot more than plagiarizing a bunch of so called experts. I ain't seen a single one with a working crystal ball.

T-Rex, math works no matter what age you are bud.

Be sure to get back to us in 31 years and let us know how your "proper planning" worked out. For your sake I hope it does.

It will work out better than no planning

ant and the grasshopper...

Let me say it another way, I remember when I thought I knew everything. I remember looking at what I thought was a lot of money in my 401K. I remember reading everything financial I could get ahold and thinking I had investing figured out. It felt great and I probably couldn't shut up about it either.

I applaud your enthusiasm. You do however come off as a 31 year old know it all that parrots basic and fairly obvious concepts you read on the internet. Because of your age and but for the short term corona dip, you haven't lived through a truly bad market or economic times as an adult. The "math" has been easy for the last decade.

You like to give advice, so here's mine. Keep saving, keep investing and, most importantly, keep gaining real life experience. Until then, check the know it all attitude.

A guys mother was going blind and he knew how well she loved reading the bible. So as a solution he sent a parrot to school to learn every verse in the bible and he could quote any and all when asked. The cost for the birds education was quite expensive. He sent the parrot to his mother for Christmas. On a check in a few weeks later he asked his mother how she liked the bird. She said he was alright but was a little tough but made good dressing, lol.

True. But, your arithmetic is no match for my calculus.

With our new socialist government, one guy can count his gold, and another can count his worthless paper.

That, and countless other predictable, and unpredictable events prove that financial planning is not a "one size fits all".

I spent a lot of time in Venezuela, back when it was a capitalist country. You don't even want to know what happened to my penthouse friends there when the government changed hands.

I hear North Sentinel Island is a nice laid back place to retire.

I’m going to retire to right here in SWGA with a modest retirement and no bills other than maybe a vehicle payment. Going to trap for turkey trip money and do a little traveling during the summer months...like spend the summer at the beach. I’m not working to leave my children anything other than a paid for cremation and party when I die. They can sell the paid for house and divide the money or live in it, up to them.

When it comes right down to it; I've never understood this "retirement" thing. It was the bright idea of the socialist, FDR. He came up with the evil plan to offer a couple bucks/month for people of a certain age to hand over their jobs to a bunch of young punk kids.

People are designed to work until they die. That's exactly what I intend to do. Obviously, I have way too much contempt for authority to work for anybody; but, i will be self employed, until I reach room temperature.

Work for someone...you’ll become a serious believer in retirement, lol! I don’t plan to become a vegetable, just work at what I enjoy doing more than what I do now to provide for my family.

I love retirement-now I do what I want,when I want,totally on my own terms.
Retirement doesnt mean you stop working-at least to me it doesnt.it is another form of real freedom not the paper freedom.

I know i will get flamed for this, but Bob, regardless of his age, it financially smarter than many on here who mock him. Im hearing lots of reasons why a person cant succeed financially from people who have probably proven it in their own life. Just cause you didnt make it work, doesnt mean others cant. I am sure more people become fianacially independent following sound advice like Bob's, than by making up excuses why Bob doesnt know what he is talking about just because he is young. "Youve never seen a bad market", "You dont know what the future holds", "You only been at this ten years"....bla bla bla. Tortoise always wins the race.

Let the flaming begin

I don’t think anyone is really bashing Bob. Heck, at that age I had it all figured out too. Planned on being a multimillionaire by retirement too...then life kicked in and a couple nice crashes and I realized if I work now for another 20 or 30 years (barring no more crashes or company takeovers) then my dreams might come true. Hope Bobs dreams come true and life throws him NO curves and all his investments make 10% a year and he leaves his kids enough they never have to work a day in their lives.

I wish I had've been that financially smart at 31. I wasnt.

56 now and dont have a nest egg saved up to live off of. But do have a decent pension and peace officer's annuity that will keep me close enough to what Im currently making. Home is paid for. No other big bills.

Im retiring in 19 months. That's 30 years of service to the state of Ga.

I am sorta retired. Work sometimes and dont work more often. Don't think I would like not working at all. If the fish are biting, or I want to hunt , or need to take care of something away from home or any other reason that comes up, I don't work. Its nice to be able to put the things I want to do at the top of the list instead of the bottom like I have done most of my life. I have managed to take off the whole trapping season more often than not. A few times in the last 20 I couldn't swing it. When my kids were little I had to keep working all winter.

I figure when its my turn to die, if I have time to reflect, there will be things I regret I have no doubt. I don't think not working more will be one of them.

Good for you but I ain't working till I die unless I croak in the next 9 months. Ive worked swing shifts for the last 36 years. The day I turn 55 Im DONE

Maybe if you enjoy what you do, it doesn't seem like work?
Some reach another season in life and begin anew.

Couldn't have said it better. Full pension at 52, kept 100% of my benefits. Everyday I decide, is this going to be a play day or a work day and there's not much difference between the two.

You are right where I’ll be very soon. Nobody can really tell another person what they need for retirement. A persons vision of retiring should not be compared to someone else. Living within your means is the key to a life of freedom. Some people never go through life with a plan. No amount of advice can help people, whom live week by week.
I, for one, could have not imagined myself in the position I’m in now, as I near the end of my working career. I work for a company, that I have invested in for years, and now the payoff is treating me well.
Coonman, you can do it when the time is right. Remember that you take care of you!

Amen Mark June! It's a beautiful thing when you love your work. My goal is to go hard until at least 75, as long as I am still enjoying it. That's what will work for me, maybe not everyone else.

People are talking about a younger poster on this thread having a lot of answers. He sounds like a smart fellow but one thing I've come to realize in life is the older I get, the less I KNOW.

10% is more than optimistic.
Historical level of accepted " safe " withdraw has been 4%.

Plus, there's this thing called inflation.
Just because people are ignoring it, or downplaying it, doesn't mean it isn't there.
Or waiting to explode!
And their goes the value of your dollar.
QE, Covid Stimulus $$$$ are propping things up

It's great you are doing what you are doing, and you are way ahead of most folks.
But moderate your expectations.

Worse case, you'll do better than you thought.

Huh?

There's a reason I don't call my financial advisor for trapping advice!


"Even if you file taxes jointly, Social Security does not count both spouses’ incomes against one spouse’s earnings limit — it’s only interested in how much you make from work while receiving benefits.

In other words, if your income exceeds the cap on yearly earnings — which in 2020 is $18,240 for people who claim benefits before full retirement age — Social Security will withhold money from your retirement payments. (Full retirement age is 66 and is gradually rising to 67 over the next several years.) Regardless of how much your spouse earns, it will not affect how much is held back from your benefit.

Your spouse’s income only affects you if your spouse has taken Social Security early and you are collecting spousal benefits on his or her work record. In this case, your spouse’s earnings could trigger withholding from both his or her retirement payment and your spousal benefits."

If you have $200,000 in your account when you retire and you spend $20,000 a year you will be broke in 10 years....think of retirement that way.

Not exactly right because the money you still have in a retirement account is hopefully making money during those years. Is your "burn" rate higher than your "repalcement" rate? Yes. But your 200k is going to last longer than 10 years, unless you're in really crappy investments.

Coonman,you'll be fine if Biden wins the election-the commies will bring in basic income and you'll get a 2g cheque every month just for being an american.
And free healthcare to boot.

You need 1,000,000 in the bank to draw $40,000 @ 4% is what I teach our children.
They usually say, "$40,000?" What's that buy?

Well then, start early, save more often I guess.

Rob, I have a quick and dirty plan to accelerate our retirements.
It will likely involve that Smith and Wesson from the winter meeting a few years ago..

Zim

^ true!!
joker jo u won't have to buy anything he will flip the bill. You will even be able to go to college for free, free health care a guy will have it made.

Yes, but that also assumes no other income besides that annual rate of return. Usually (hopefully) people have more than one revenue stream after retirement. That also assumes you're never going to burn down any of that original million bucks.I suspect that many retires wouldn't die broke if their burn rate was twice as much (8%) of the 4% "replacement" rate.

What’s sad is I think I’m worth more dead than alive!!!

If I'd quit hunting in 4 different states and having kids I'd probably be able to retire early, but I've watched to many men save their whole life then retire only to not feel like leaving the house. I'm going to enjoy the things I live to do now while I'm young enough to do it. We still put 15% in 401k but if I would cut back on my hunting trips I could probably but up 25%. My best friends dad saved his whole life and has came from a poor farmers son to a multimillionaire but he doesn't want or feel like doing anything, and hardly goes more than 5 miles from his house. He told me to enjoy life to the fullest while I had my health so I'm trying to do that

Using a 4 % return rate is very reasonable. I have money heavily invested in some equity accounts, but I never draw from those returns. Those accounts have had great returns, but I would never set myself up to live on returns from equities alone. Look back in time, to the Nixon and GWB eras....the S& P indexes were in negative territory. I began investing in 1991, and yes, for the most part, markets have been up. But you know bear markets are out there.

My accounts at Lincoln and Stifel Nicolas pay out monthly dividend checks...those accounts average a 4 to 6.5 percent return. There is still a risk of loss of principle , even at that rate.

If an money manager starts telling you he’ll get you 10% returns, better find another guy.

The best way to get the best returns is never invest in anything you don’t fully understand, and research the funds for yourself before investing. Your “money manager” should do nothing more than teach you how investments work and execute the transaction. Never blindly trust your money to a “manager”

Back in the late 70s,,I had a bank CD that was yielding 16%.Youl never see that again.

anyone remember Bernie Madoff?

I do. He had a fund that was so far superior to anything else at the time, that you needed contacts to get in. Even then you could only deal with him during a few short windows per year. He was getting results of around 10% which was way above anything else at the time. I was able to get in, and was the envy of a lot of high profile local investors.

To make a very long story short: His victims actually made out pretty well compared to other investors, due to one particular government investigator that ruthlessly went after his assets after his conviction.

T-Rex, if you held a simple S&P 500 fund over the last 50 years you have averaged between 10 and 11 percent. Some years less. Some years more. You can, if you are interested in doing your homework, find mutual funds that have a 30 year average of 11-12 percent. Your “doom and gloom” outlook on investing is opposed by facts and history.

Some here have said that our political climate, economy, etc are in a place we’ve never seen before. That is true and could in the short term hurt your portfolio. Which is why you should have 25% of your portfolio invested in international mutual funds.

If this point in time are as bad as some of you are saying then there has never been a better time to begin investing. And I don’t mean single stocks, that’s a fools game. I mean growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international mutual funds. 25% in each category. If the market is as bad as you think, you’ll be getting those funds on sale. When the world gets back to some sense of normalcy and the economy takes back off again you’ll enjoy nice gains on them. Personally I think that our markets have already seen the corrections that the pandemic and political scene is going to cause. I think the results from Tuesday might cause a correction that lasts about a week. After that it will resume its upward trajectory.

Be careful expecting those high returns. We have been in a monumental money creation period that is based on debt for quite some time. That will not continue forever.

Diversity is going to be important.

I'm very heavy in the markets and check at the end of each month where I'm at and never look other then that. As of today I'm up 3.17% from January 1st 2020. Looking at the year so far, I have been as low as -8% to as high as +8% through 10 months so far for the year.

IMO, it isn't so much what you contribute, but it is the time/years of compounding that makes the difference. Time, length of time you are invested is critical for success.

Yeah, in hindsight I could have done that. It probably would have paid off better than looking for that filthy rich heiress that I never found.

Bob is back. Everyone get ready to be rich.

Your parroted recipe for fund diversification is not one size fits all. You telling someone in their 50s or 60s to get aggressive in the market is internet expert malpractice and, again, demonstrates your lack of experience.

Again, I applaud you saving and investing but keep your day job.

I haven’t told anyone to invest aggressively. You haven’t been paying attention. Growth mutual funds and large cap slow and steady funds. Growth and income are medium growth dividend paying stock. Aggressive growth is the only aggressive investment of the bunch, small cap stock. International can be whatever aggressive level you choose.

I haven’t said there is one size fits all. I clearly said that you should NEVER invest in anything you don’t fully understand and/or are uncomfortable with. If YOU think a particular fund is too risky, don’t invest in it. There are thousands of funds to choose from. Surely there are 3 or 4 for everyone

What is a plain, true fact, no matter how you spin it, is that ALL of the folks who have retired with enough savings to live comfortably have one thing in common. They saved and invested in the stock market one way or another. Save and invest, save and invest. If you do these things wisely you’ll have money at retirement. If you don’t, then you won’t.

Fortunately I don't need you to explain mutual funds, or anything investing, to me. I have been paying attention to an inexperienced keyboard financial planner spouting his opinions on a trapping website. Yes, if you are telling, or implying by omission, a guy in his 50's or 60's, or anyone for that matter, to invest all of his money in the market--that is aggressive. Way too aggressive. Maybe I missed where you copied and pasted something about cash, bonds, real estate or other assets--portfolio diversification.

I have complimented you plenty on your own efforts. You estimated earlier that you will have $600K in two 401Ks by the time you are 50. That is good, but does not demonstrate proficiency in anything other than saving and maybe picking some index funds.

Real estate is a great investment if one can afford to do it with cash. In fact your cash on cash return on real estate is almost always better than the stock market. Real estate stocks. REITs etc are just as risky as anything. One should always have 3-6 months living expenses in cash. Anything more than that is a mistake, inflation is devaluing your money. It’s the worst possible way to keep your money. Bonds and CDs will make you no money. At best they’ll keep up with inflation. If you plan on burning every dollar you have and then immediately dying that’s fine.

I do not expect anyone to simply take my advice and invest based on my opinion. As I’ve said several times, everyone needs to be investing. That’s bottom line. What you invest in needs to be a decision YOU make. You need to research funds, rates of return, investment vehicles, work with a professional to learn how all of the things work, and then invest in what you believe in. Never invest in anything you don’t fully understand, and never stop growing your knowledge of investments. Review your investments at least annually and make changes based on new information you’ve learned if needed.

Everyone needs to work with a professional who takes the time to educate you so that you can make these decisions. If your financial guy tries to push you into anything, find a new guy.

I’ll just say one more thing, then I’ll leave it be. Anyone in the United States can retire wealthy. ANYONE. All it takes is caring enough to make a plan and stick to it, as you go you can educate yourself and adjust the plan as needed. Your income is your most valuable wealth building tool, and you cannot use it to build wealth if you’re giving it away in the form of interest on loans so avoid debt like the plague.

I have hogs to go kill and am done trying to explain this to you. Talk to me when you're 50.

Until then, I did enjoy the Captain Obvious motivational speech--with some bad advice sprinkled in.

Its good to have a lot of cash you can lend out at exorbitantly high intrest rates.
The intrest rates are high because you have to pay Vinnie the collector on occasion.

Excellent advice! You can not make it up on the back end. Starting early ,compounding is your friend!

To save 15% of my 12 buck an hour jobs when I was starting out, I'd have had to move back in with my parents.

Reality is, a major portion of people can't save 5% and start a family in today's world.

The only thing keeping people from living on a budget and bettering thier situation is the person they see in the mirror. Self discipline is lacking and keeping up with the joneses has never been worse than it is today thanks to social media. These days people who adhere to a budget are the weird ones. Most people spend every penny they make. Then they get a raise and immediately spend the raise because they can “afford” it.car payments, credit card payments, financing the latest iPhone, heck people are even financing pets these days. Then they get fed the line that the average joe can’t get ahead these days. People sit there and wonder where their money went instead of telling it what to do because they just swipe that card instead of creating a budget and adhering to it religiously.

I can’t explain it as well as some but it’s called the scarcity mentality in psychiatric terms.

If it wasn't for being in debt until I was in my 40's, I wouldn't have had a business of my own. Your trying to paint with a broad brush that only fits a few people.

Even if a person can only save 1% of their income, it’s a place to start. If a person works hard they won’t be at that 12$ an hour job for long. The key then is not to increase lifestyle with every raise. That’s where most people screw up. There’s people out there who have become millionaires on a 40k salary, then there’s people who make 150k and are living paycheck to paycheck.

I hear ya brother, anything u can contribute early will have a a effect on the back end. Just get it started...

Yep, every little bit helps.

Too many people starting families these days that cant afford to....well, unless they plan for the gubment to pay for it.

Paying for their family and saving a set amount (while starting a family) are two different things.

Like I said, preaching what is good for your situation as gospel is short minded. Some people put every dollar into their business, some were born rich, some are having a bad run of luck. Save? Yes, if you can and still have a life worth living. After all is considered, I agree some can't afford to.

You would think if 6% of the world's population consumed 60% of the world's goods and services, there might be some gravy for "most."

Our kids live well but 4 outta the 5 live above how their mom and I were: raised and lived. Today's Joneses are way worse than our day's Joneses it seems. None of them drive clunkers. All have a mortgage young. Money is cheap and has been all their decades so in they dive.

None of our children were raised with the concept of student debt being the Baal of gods, but two of our kids married others with 6 figure loans. Wow. Still paying into their mid-30's (to the government) is nothing we had to worry about.

The stock market and the ability to own land, and own a business has been the greatest economic engine the world has ever known. That's why the 6% has the 60%.
Stocks have risk (not much). Owning land has upsides and downsides. Owning a biz takes risk and work, work, work.
Most don't care for risk or the work of owning your own biz.

Donna and I did all three of these plans and we've been blessed.
Do none of them at your own peril I'd say.

Blessings,
Mark

Find a career you are qualified for and enjoy and stay the course. The same with finding a solid home and staying put. For investments We have mostly done the same. We hold most of the funds and securities today that we did 25 years ago or more. Sure we have added a few or sold some for losses to lower our capital gains etc. This is what worked for our family as we inherited no wealth and we had one income for all but 7 years out of our 50 years of marriage. For others options and choices may very well be far different. The goal is to know what you want and need for the future and plan how to do that and manage the heck out of the income you spend. It is amazing what even average returns can do for you when you commit monthly to investing and let it build for 50 years.

Bryce

Work from can to can't - Then check your holdings. Sorry folks, easier for me & I try to enjoy each & every day!
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