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Making a suppressor

Posted By: larrywaugh

Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 01:29 PM

I own a machine shop. Yesterday we were approached by a customer wanting us to make a suppressor he had designed. He says that it is legal for us to build he will then fill out the paperwork for him to own it. My question is is this true. I dont want to do anything that is not legal.
Posted By: bigbrad115

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 01:32 PM

I've got three words for you: DON'T DO IT!
Posted By: warrior

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 01:45 PM

Don't know. Check to see if that would make you a manufacturer.
Posted By: garymc

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 01:47 PM

Paperwork before manufacture. I have been researching building a 22 or suppressor. The paperwork and wait is pretty short 4-6 weeks as opposed to the paperwork for a factory made suppressor which can take up to a year.

There are also guidelines for what has to be engraved in the manufactured suppressor.

I’m not 100% sure that you can legally build it for him without additional paperwork for you. He can build his own pretty straight forward process but I’m not sure about bringing in another party to manufacture.
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 01:56 PM

What Gary said. You can make one for yourself and register it for yourself. For someone else? Like an 80 percent lower I'd say no.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 01:59 PM

Its legal under state law so long as you stamp Made in Kansas on it. That has been tried though by a couple guys in Junction City. The feds will enforce gun law no matter what state law says. They ignore drug laws over state laws but not gun laws. In fact here in Kansas the law says it is a felony to enforce federal gun law but the state let the wolves eat those guys. Don't do it. Its a good bet he is an ATF agent.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:03 PM

Just say no
Posted By: larrywaugh

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:06 PM

We know the guy pretty well he owns a business close by and we have made things for him in the past. The part where he wanted us to make it before he done the paperwork scared me.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:24 PM

Pretty sure the paper work comes first!
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:25 PM

You have local ATF , you could check the laws .
Posted By: traprjohn

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by 330-Trapper
You have local ATF , you could check the laws .


THAT'S who I'd be asking if it was me.
Posted By: Hutchy

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:33 PM

One question.

Is what you will make doing it worth all the messing around to find out if its legal?

Most of the time these things are not worth it. if you were going into producing them? Sure.
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Law Dog
Pretty sure the paper work comes first!


Not to f you make it yourself. Can't use it till the paperwork is done though
Posted By: larrywaugh

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:40 PM

After seeing the opinions on here I am going to pass the amount I would make on it isnt worth the hassle
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:43 PM

What guarantee would you have the paperwork ever got done?
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by larrywaugh
After seeing the opinions on here I am going to pass the amount I would make on it isnt worth the hassle

Smart move
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:47 PM

You need a approved BAFA form 1 before starting a build from what I read.
Posted By: logger coffey

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:51 PM

DONT RISK YOUR BUISNESS , make Shure all is legal before stepping in. O and you will be on the LIST, after the paper work and start getting random visits .
Posted By: AKAjust

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 02:55 PM

I'm wondering if you just make the parts and he puts it together.
just
Posted By: Hodagtrapper

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by AKAjust
I'm wondering if you just make the parts and he puts it together.
just


Don't do it!

Chris
Posted By: Finster

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 03:06 PM

DON'T DO IT!


Silencers, which are classified as Title 2 weapons in the United States, require special permits, taxes and approval by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), according to the website of silencer manufacturer Gemtech. The sale, purchase or manufacture of a silencer is prohibited in eight states. California, Iowa, Massachusetts and Michigan allow only class 3 firearms dealers and class 2 firearms manufacturers, not individuals, to own silencers. No one may possess unmarked homemade silencers in the U.S.

Silencer Manufacture Law
According to the ATF, silencer and other Title 2 firearm manufacturers must submit an application for the making and registering of a new firearm, pay a $200 manufacture tax per firearm and receive ATF approval before the creation of such a weapon. Individuals desiring to make a silencer must meet these conditions and obtain permission to act as a Title 2 firearm manufacturer beforehand. Only government-approved and authorized individuals may legally perform silencer repairs in the U.S. Minor repairs involving the replacement of small serial-number-labeled parts must be made with replacement parts with the same corresponding serial number. All silencer parts bearing serial numbers must match. Major repairs include recalibration and main tube replacement, both of which create a new weapon.


Silencer Calibration Law
A silencer modified to fire a different caliber bullet for use with a different caliber gun becomes a different weapon, according to the ATF. Only approved silencer repair facilities may alter silencer calibration. These repairs require manufacturers to submit an application for making and registering a new firearm, pay a $200 new firearm tax and receive ATF approval for the creation of the desired weapon. The ATF believes a weapon modified from the original designed purpose creates a wholly new weapon that, for public safety reasons, must receive the proper documentation and filing as such. For example, altering a .22-caliber silencer for use with an unregistered .38 could potentially allow a person to commit a crime with a weapon easily reported stolen.

Silencer Main Tube Replacement Law
The ATF considers the main tube replacement of a damaged silencer the creation of a new weapon as well. However, different reasons apply to this decision. The ATF catalogues silencers according to serial numbers and strongly recommends manufacturers place these numbers plainly on the exterior of the main tube. The replacement of the main tube requires a newly numbered unit more often than not. The ATF considers this new unit a new weapon. Because all serial numbered components should match, all previous numbered parts must be altered to reflect the new number. The issuance of a new serial number requires the requisite application, fees and ATF-approval.

Source: https://legalbeagle.com/6813428-regulations-making-silencer.html
Posted By: Trapper7

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 03:36 PM

I agree with those who say not to do it, especially if there's any chance it could potentially ruin your business.
Posted By: rex123

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 04:29 PM

Sounds like the paper work would take a week to fill out.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by rex123
Sounds like the paper work would take a week to fill out.


And a year to get back.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by larrywaugh
We know the guy pretty well he owns a business close by and we have made things for him in the past. The part where he wanted us to make it before he done the paperwork scared me.



NO, NO, NO. You can submit a form 1 and make one for yourself AFTER your approved tax stamp is in hand.


You can't legally make one for someone else unless you have your 07 S.O.T. that makes you a licens firearms manufacturer league to make silencers and machineguns..

Everything he said is wrong 100%.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by larrywaugh
We know the guy pretty well he owns a business close by and we have made things for him in the past. The part where he wanted us to make it before he done the paperwork scared me.



NO, NO, NO. You can submit a form 1 and make one for yourself AFTER your approved tax stamp is in hand.


You can't legally make one for someone else unless you have your 07 S.O.T. that makes you a licens firearms manufacturer league to make silencers and machineguns..

Everything he said is wrong 100%.
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Originally Posted by Law Dog
Pretty sure the paper work comes first!


Not to f you make it yourself. Can't use it till the paperwork is done though



This is wrong. You must have an approved form one before you make it.
Posted By: mad_mike

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by larrywaugh
I own a machine shop. Yesterday we were approached by a customer wanting us to make a suppressor he had designed. He says that it is legal for us to build he will then fill out the paperwork for him to own it. My question is is this true. I dont want to do anything that is not legal.


Can’t see much profit in that deal. I would politely decline and move on.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 05:21 PM

Lots of good information at subguns.com on class ll and lll ownership issues.
Posted By: snowy

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 05:27 PM

No and No! That would be dangerous business.
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 06:04 PM

Providence Farm is correct!!! You can send in Form 1 and in about 30-40 days you can start building YOUR suppressor AFTER it has had the proper ingraving done . BUT the engraving MUST be the proper depth . Silencer Forum . Will give you the correct way to do it. SO it is true = IF YOU pay your 200 dollars for tax stamp, wait around 40 days for Form 1 to clear = NOT 1 year = Then engrave serial number AND OR YOUR trust info you can build a LEGAL suppressor . So yes = you can build 1 AFTER you do the paper work, BUT be carefull! Follow the rules. Do them in correct order. And in 60 days or less you will have a legal suppressor
Posted By: mcrobinson

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by steeltraps
Providence Farm is correct!!! You can send in Form 1 and in about 30-40 days you can start building YOUR suppressor AFTER it has had the proper ingraving done . BUT the engraving MUST be the proper depth . Silencer Forum . Will give you the correct way to do it. SO it is true = IF YOU pay your 200 dollars for tax stamp, wait around 40 days for Form 1 to clear = NOT 1 year = Then engrave serial number AND OR YOUR trust info you can build a LEGAL suppressor . So yes = you can build 1 AFTER you do the paper work, BUT be carefull! Follow the rules. Do them in correct order. And in 60 days or less you will have a legal suppressor


I agree with all of this. I have built 2 for myself. The turn around time on them was around 30 days for each stamp. It was a fun project and my guns are more enjoyable to shoot now. smile
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 06:29 PM

Nfa talk is a good place for info. But have some thick skin.
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 06:48 PM

AS of right now. You can buy a = Solvent Trap = on gunbroker. Send in 200 dollars for tax stamp, with your Form 1 . WAIT . Then engrave AND THEN drill just 1 hole and you have a LEGAL suppressor. I am NOT a lawyer!!! This may change soon. SO owning the parts = AKA = Solvent Trap is a legal suppressor at this moment IF , IF you follow the rules!! SO for about 275-300 dollars. You can own a legal suppessor. DO THE reading.Follow the legal way. and have a suppressor in 40 days or less!
Posted By: K52

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
Its legal under state law so long as you stamp Made in Kansas on it. That has been tried though by a couple guys in Junction City. The feds will enforce gun law no matter what state law says. They ignore drug laws over state laws but not gun laws. In fact here in Kansas the law says it is a felony to enforce federal gun law but the state let the wolves eat those guys. Don't do it. Its a good bet he is an ATF agent.


X2
Posted By: Boco

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 08:22 PM

Why take a chance for a small return.
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 10:52 PM

Also has to be engraved 1/16 th of inch on serial # and or Trust
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by steeltraps
Providence Farm is correct!!! You can send in Form 1 and in about 30-40 days you can start building YOUR suppressor AFTER it has had the proper ingraving done . BUT the engraving MUST be the proper depth . Silencer Forum . Will give you the correct way to do it. SO it is true = IF YOU pay your 200 dollars for tax stamp, wait around 40 days for Form 1 to clear = NOT 1 year = Then engrave serial number AND OR YOUR trust info you can build a LEGAL suppressor . So yes = you can build 1 AFTER you do the paper work, BUT be carefull! Follow the rules. Do them in correct order. And in 60 days or less you will have a legal suppressor



Steel trap did a better job explaining than I could. I knew it could be done and relatively easy but you have to somewhat do it yourself. You can legally buy unfinished kits like steel trap said.

This is how I'll do my next suppressor.
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/25/20 11:32 PM

Steven 49er , Keep in mind. This could change at any minute. Example = there was a time when having all the parts = for a suppressor = was in fact = Conspiracy To Manufacture A Unlicensed Sliencer OR unlicensed NFA product. Im not a lawyer BUT I think around 2017-2018 a federal judges made a ruling on = Solvent Traps? Its just a piece of metal with baffles UNTIL you drill that last hole was the jus of it i think?
Posted By: turkn8rtrapper

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/26/20 03:34 AM

On the up side,if you have nothing planned for the next 15 years (day for day) that doesn't involve grey jump suites and lots of other men then hey go for it. I have plenty to do if I make it 15 more years so I would pass.
Posted By: danvee

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/26/20 04:06 AM

No and anyone with a class 3 permit will tell you the same.
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/26/20 04:34 AM

you need a SOT special occupational taxpayer license this is the license needed to manufacture class 3 items and track and transfer them.

you could potentially make individual parts and he fills out a form 1 . you nor he can assemble it prior to having a tax stamp without being in violation of the law.


the way that places that sell parts to make a suppressor do it is they make a solvent trap the end cap never gets drilled you can buy a solvent trap , or thread adapter but you then need to form 1 that and serialize it finishing it once the form one is in hand the hole can be drilled


you can manufacture parts under contract for an SOT so if he shows you his license but you never assemble the parts only he does you just make a part to a drawing for him and best to not have all the parts in your possession at once.

Technically Kansas made in state manufacture of suppressors legal , however you should definitely wait till that gets done being litigated the fed didn't quite see it the same way Kansas did that if the ATF is using the interstate commerce act to make firearms tax and registration simply don't sell or transfer interstate. should be as simple as states rights but it isn't
the ATF wants their cake and eat it too. Yes I believe such a use of the interstate commerce taxation is illegal and unconstitutional whoever people in black robes don't all seem to think so.
basically in 1934 the Fed did an end run around the constitution with a tax stamp.

definitely have a copy a SOT license up front and only make one part at a time and transfer that part to the SOT or say no

there are enough suppressor manufacturers , parts manufactures and SOT out there I don't see where it would be more cost effective to have you make the parts unless you work really cheap or unless he has some really unique design he wants made and he intends to take it to production once he has a prototype.

the ATF has people you can call and ask how to do this legal. make sure you have the details covered with them what you as a contract machine shop can and can not do in their interpretation.
Posted By: KenaiKid

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/26/20 09:19 AM

The answer is "No"... but meet me in the shop after hours if you want help making a solvent trap for cleaning your gun 😉
Posted By: wy.wolfer

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/26/20 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by larrywaugh
We know the guy pretty well he owns a business close by and we have made things for him in the past. The part where he wanted us to make it before he done the paperwork scared me.

ONLY the people you trust EVER burn you.
Posted By: T-Rex

Re: Making a suppressor - 11/27/20 12:50 AM

Can't build a suppressor, can't build a still...can't buy this, can't sell that...

Oh wait, sure you can. all it takes is weeks and weeks and dollar after dollar, and be willing to have big brother looking over your shoulder.

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