Algebra used as an adult

My wife and I had this discussion yesterday. Do kids really need algebra in school? There are a lot of different skill levels on this sight from professional trappers to lawyers, mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, factory workers, drivers and the list goes on. Does anyone in their daily life use algebra? Our discussion was these kids would be better off being taught how to read a tape measure. Seriously. Something simule as measuring drapes or curtains. Hanging a picture, how wide is the door opening and so on.
I'm NOT saying algebra is not important, I'm sure it is in the right application. But for most of us we will almost never use it. This post just pertains to algebra. There are many other things we can question about learning.

If you build anything, you will use algebra. If you cook, you will eventually use algebra.

i dont use it daily but I sure dont regret taking time to get a working knowledge of it

Actually, I believe many people use simple algebra processes every day. You have to be taught to read a tape measure?

More like fractions and cross multiplying?

I use algebra and trigonometry frequently as an electrician. Had to learn it in trade school, math never made sense to me in high school.

I've worked the construction trades all my life. First as a cabinet maker, then framer now as a NWCO sealing up houses to keep critters out.

Yes, algebra AND geometry is needed. The pythagorean is memorized and has been used regularly to determine rafter and stair lengths, from that I can get squares of shingle or sheets of decking. Today I get rake trim and linear feet to be caulked. And all of this can be done from the ground without tape measure! Or calculator.

I use geometry and trig at work with frequency with blueprints in QA biz.

Question anwsered. Thank you folks.

But yes, I despised algebra in school. Geometry I could wrap my head around as I do good visualizing shapes mentally.

I think your question is valid, I would like to see math studies focused more on application vs theory. One of my degrees is in Engineering, so yes I used it a lot but now retired- I probably use algebra more on a daily basis than I even realize or think about- it's another tool that if you recognize when to use it or apply it, it benefits financial decisions, DYI project work , it becomes engrained in how you think.

Yes i do not as much now i'm a retired millwright but i still like to build a little finding centers ,chords of a circle to set up drilling patterns finding angles with a square for odd shaped plates and of course "Pythagoras's Theory"

In school i thought algebra was a waste of time felt the same about bottled water

I have had to use Algebra for the past 10 years almost daily, thankfully now that my kids are almost done with high school and I will no longer be helping with homework it will no longer need it.

Here math has multiple streams in high school. Carpentry, electrical, plumbing, cooking, heck even farming all use algebra regularly. I think people that think they never use it, simply just don't realize they use it.

Genau!

Back when I framed houses I could take a set of prints and if the foundation was square and true cut every board from sill to ridge and lay them out numbered as they were needed. However I've yet to meet a concrete crew that could pour a square foundation. LOL

It amazed me the number of kids, lumber toters, that seemed to think that was some sort special hidden knowledge.

The Babylonians and Egyptians were using it ahead of everyone else. Particularly in following the planets. They were leaders in many things including medicine. That's why we should not think of them as an easy take when it comes to defense .

As someone who hated it and fought it all the way up until 30 when they went back to school and learned it, I am for it. It is applicable and helpful in every day life once you know it. The basics anyway. I’m not sure parabolas and graph functions are necessary.

I am also a retired engineer and used algebra, geometry, and trigonometry extensively in my profession. For me the problem is more that math teachers seem to know nothing about how math is used in practical application. To them it's all about the math, not how to use it as a tool. If they could make math relate to everyday uses they could make it a lot more interesting for the student.

Our clock is set up on 60 seconds and 60 minutes. Attributed to Babylonians use use of 60. Still some of them had strange ideas. They thought the sun revolved around the earth and went thru a tunnel in the earth causing darkness.

I think that's a problem in most subjects these days. Especially since shop class and vocational schools were done away with. Lots of theoretical being taught with no practical.

Also why a high school dropout like myself makes a good living solving problems for mostly college educated folks.

In our industry (commercial construction) algebra is in constant and heavy use by all professionals (engineers, architects, estimators) and almost all trades.
Reading a tape measure is of little use if you can't manipulate the data to suit your needs

I don't think it's about the numbers persay, as much as it is about teaching problem solving,

It's purpose is teaching kids how to think--even if they never actually use the math.

It is practical and used all the time. But I often tell my students as a teacher my job is to teach you the process and how to think. The difference between college and school. Teachers teach professors profess and tell you what to believe.

You beat me to it.

Absolutely! Reading, writing and arithmetic. They had it right long before we instituted all the administrative Bs looking for alternative teaching approaches.

More importantly need to bring back discipline and respect thru any means into the classroom or all the support money thrown at schools will be in vain. And if that means separating the wheat from the shaft so be it. Teachers should be teaching not parenting. Unfortunately, there is no parenting done in many families with no fundamental discipline and respect instilled. In fact now, under BLM philosophy - respect for authority should be challenged.

Not in this day and age. There are computer and special apps along with hand held devices to figure it all out for you.

????

I believe it is wheat and chaff that need to be separated. I'm not sure who got the shaft.

And when you lose your app literally or lose by magnetic interference , then what. Always follow your GPS off in the creek. Not to worry same app can call Triple A.

The child that has not been parented with discipline and respect gets the shaft. Why punish the good ones. Sorry if that offends someone but then maybe they need to reconsider their parenting.

In my field of pharmaceutical chemistry, we use a lot of apps but you still gotta provide an example calculation and be able to reason which formula to apply

Even if you just want to pick up trash for a living you need it. Unless you outsource anything that has to do with your finances.
You should at least be taught to use that blue button in the TI83 your have klti but on high school.

My thought exactly.

You would be surprised at how many people can’t read a tape measure!!!

If the kids are in school sports, they may want to know algebra to figure out if they need to study a bit more to maintain academic eligibility.

Leave the line or a fat sixteenth would be greek to them.

I actually enjoyed Algebra and probably apply it more than I realize. But , the handiest thing I ever learned, for the projects I do, was the simple formula for finding center (almost instantly) of a measurement. Courtesy of a Pipefitter.

"Primary school children can begin to use standard measures around second grade. Supplying a flexible plastic or simple wooden 12 inch ruler, metric or English, whichever is used where you live, will get your youngster measuring all over the house!"

I hope they are not breeding.

I never had trouble with math.
My high school math teacher tried to get me to
take alg. since it came so easy for me. I asked him if he thought it
would help me if I wasn't going on to collage and he said probably not.
I just couldn't get into doing math with letters instead of #s. All 3 kids
have had it and my oldest son done real good with it. He helped his sister with her
collage stuff.

I hated it and did just enough to pass in high school. Had to relearn it in college for my chemistry minor. Love chemistry still not a fan of math. I think it’s needed and worth a kids time

There are exception to every rule, but 99% will never use it after leaving school. JMO

Basic algebra yes complex algebra no.
I struggled with algebra in school. I couldn't visualize it.
I passed 10th grade algebra with an "E" lol. Yes an "E" which was a high F but got me the credit.
Geometry was much easier.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I use it every day. The challenge is ..."how do I write the equation to find the answer I need ?"


No app is going to help if you don't know how to frame the question.

Xray tech, lots of math involved when I started, now not so much.

Math was my favorite subject. I despised "english", who needs to diagram a sentence when they are out of school?

My favorite science in college was physics because it is easily applicable in life.

I used to able to count to 20 and then they made me start wearing shoes. Now I have to use algebra to get 20. 10 x 2

I have used basic Algebra on an infrequent basis in my life time but never the “deep” stuff. I had a Calculus course in college and never used it.

I use PI often to figure out how long a hose is or anything in a coil.

Must not have despised it enough to not pay attention. You write in complete coherent sentences, which is more than can be said of many coming out of schools today.

One thing I've learned in business is if it isn't written down it never happened or you can't enforce what isn't written and whatever is written needs to be clearly understood. So english and sentence diagraming has it's place. You may not actually use in any way other than to subliminally lay out the point you're trying to put into writing.

BTW, mama was an english teacher.

My early negative attitude about algebra was probably influenced by reading too many Archie comics. I assumed it would not be useful in real life.

Boy has that ever turned out to be wrong. In farming I end up needing algebra for many things like laying out fields, calibrating sprayers, and on and on.

In highschool, I had 1 year of algebra, 1 year split between geometry and trigonometry, 1 year of calculus and 1 year of advanced calculus. In college, I tested out of having to take math, but took 1 statistics class. I also waived speech. I frequently use algebra and geometry in every day life. It would be hard to function without them. I never use trigonometry or calculus and have forgotten most of it.

I believe algebra and geometry should be taught to everybody capable of learning them. I see little use in teaching most people trigonometry and calculus.

Keith

As a mechanic and NDT Tech I use geometry and trig almost daily. Algebra maybe a couple of time a month. I never would have thought any of it would be used in real life, but in the right fields you need at least. Basic understanding of most math disciplines.

What's the easiest way to divide a fraction in half?......... Double the bottom number , works everytime. An old carpenter taught me that one.

I run a crane for a living and seldom use it. I leave the bean counters and engineers use it so they can mess up a critical lift plan.

I appreciated Algebra I so much I took it two years in a row.............

I seldom use it but do when building things on the farm. I'm a heavy equipment operator and probably unknowingly use it.

In school I hated it. Could not remember the all the formulas. It always seemed pointless. That said I alway e
Liked the word problems. In them I knew why I needed to find the answer and always got those correct.

A list of numbers and symptoms and no info on where the inputs are from or for. Its not going to happen. Some people need to know whe were and why. They dont teach like that.

I despised algebra in high school. I dropped algebra 2 at semester and took a different math for credit... Before I dropped the class I asked the teacher if I would ever use this crap. She said, 'Honestly, probably not'...

So I became a machinist and then moved on to being an electrician. Formulas, formulas, formulas. Lol

Mrs. Addington died a few years back. I wish I would've went to see her and thanked her for teaching me what she could before I was a knothead who dropped her class.

Mike

I diffidently get your thinking on how much a person uses it during your life time. Algebra is just using letters in place of numbers. It is still addition, subtraction, time and dividing. I use all of them each and everyday and when working it was a huge part of my job each day.

I remember I got an "A" on a math test that was multiplying and dividing fractions, I knew most of the decimal equivalents by heart and for those I didn't, just divided numerator by denominator. I didn't show my work and was sent to the office (normal occurrence back then) for cheating, when the principal asked what I had to say, I replied "who did I cheat from if the next highest score was a 79"? The principal asked me to work a problem with my teacher present, I did it my way and it was correct- she said that's not the proper method- principal replied... isn't coming up with the correct answer the goal?

My wife has used it to make a family and a pretty darn good living !! She has been teaching it for 38 years and counting !!!

Yep...Your the first crane operator I have ever seen on T-Man....I once was a high angle rigger...working with 300 ton manitowacs/crawlers....loved it..Merry Christmas!!!!

I think it should be a requirement to pass high school algebra 1 and geometry to get a high school diploma. What do I know though. I think it should also be a requirement to pass basic math, without a calculator.

I swear some math teachers just wanted to kill trees. My geometry teacher insisted on drawing everything to size, no scaling allowed and only allowed us to use only one side of the paper. I did most of my homework in my head then had to go back to and do the work part later if I deigned to do so. Not my fault we did a lot speed math quizzes in elementary school

Oftentimes we get tunnel vision, thinking the whole world is (or ought to be) like us... "I don't need algebra/English/History/HomeEc, why should anyone learn it?" But the world is a diverse place in need of diverse people. It would be a sorry place if every house, bridge and computer were built by career trappers
I also hear people say "kids ought to just go into trade school at age 16 and learn one skill instead of all this extra stuff." That only works if you can reliably spend your whole career doing one thing, which is becoming more and more rare.
I for one am really glad I was forced (more or less) to learn topics I didn't see the value of at the time. Pretty much all of them have benefited me.

As I've build my business and worked in other businesses (construction), I've realized that diversity of skill is one of the most important things to climbing the ladder. It sort of goes like this for industrial construction, but I think the principle could be applied to most any discipline:

A laborer "don't need no book larnin, just hard work."
A helper has to be able to read, measure and maybe do some basic math.
A carpenter/welder/ other tradesman has to have a good grasp of geometry and some basic equations.
A designer needs all of that, a good grasp of physics, and some communication/drawing ability.
A foreman needs decent writing and leadership in addition to the above.
A supervisor needs good comprehensive reading, communication, technical knowledge, and the more engineering understanding the better. Submitting change requests to engineers requires understanding and speaking their language as much as possible.
And of course engineers must earn a degree with its own prerequisites.

I've filled all of these positions except engineer, mostly because I got good "reading writing and rithmatic" in addition to experience and natural aptitude. I can not only build and supervise, I can draw multiple types of drawings on paper and software, write reports, proposals, change orders, permit requests etc. Unfortunately I've met many highly-skilled tradesmen who end up limited by their lack of education, and they're still working in the mud in their 60s while I'm in the office, simply because of a difference in knowledge.

To answer the OP, I think people use algebra much more than they realize. Algebra is simply number deciphering, the practice of using known values to find unknown ones. Some people say "I use geometry but not algebra", forgetting that algebra is the foundation of geometry.

And I agree that if schools taught more application instead of just theory, kids would learn and see the benefit a lot better.

SureLOL

Not pursuing academics limits future opportunities. No need to be stuck in a box. 4 years of math, science, english and 3 yrs of language didn't stop me from being a laborer but a hernia after 2 years convinced me to put my education to work.

Failed 4 years of high school math/algebra
& had to take it again in summer school.

I missed all my summer vacations and failed it again.

Math made absolutely no sense to me at all.

Still doesn't to this very day.

No teacher could help me "get it".

On the other hand, I aced 4 years of History, English,
and Languages.

So without math, I ended up as a trapping bum.

walleyed

Mathematics makes the world go round.

It explains a lot about the universe too.

You are right are you calling me fat. Lol a lot of people want to work construction but don’t understand tape, and angle.

They are breeding, they all have a couple baby momma’s

I taught all my kids to recite an inch by 16ths by second grade. I get aggravated with people that can't read a rule.

In the 90's I used to get aggravated by people who couldn't read a metric tape.

Just an example of the math I have to know and understand daily to manage a wastewater treatment plant.

In high school i could barely pass algebra and geometry. The teachers always went to fast and i couldn't keep up.

Who goes to college to become a math teacher?

Answer: someone who loves math and has it come to them very easily. They have not got a good understanding of the struggles some people have with it.

In the real world the math i use is applied math and I have a much easier time understanding it.

My dad was a mathematics teacher and math department head at the high school I went to. He taught algebra, geometry, trigonometry and calculus.

When there became special classes for “slow learners” he taught a class for these students. He focused on practical applications and exercises like addition and subtraction for balancing a checkbook, understanding multiplication, division and fractions using tape measures and calipers for building things, and geometry for constructing a shed.

Many of his students in this class were also my friends. He completely turned around their attitude concerning education. To this day they thank my dad in honor.

Should see the people I had for calculus instructors/assistants in college. Almost all of em were chinese and didnt know the english terms goodly enough.

I am also a crane operator and I use math multiple times a day. Unless it’s a critical lift we do all our own lift calcs and figure out where to set up to do the job. Our provincial and red seal exams are very math oriented.

I'm sure some can relate to this.....

I use geometry, algebra, and occasionally some trig estimating losses and predicting costs over an extended period of time.


I know I know- yall picture me dragging my knuckles and I am OK with that ya bunch a daggum yankees!

Geometry is especially helpful when actually measuring something would mean certain death.

to be able to do the important things in Geometry and Trigonometry you need algebra


even more day to day things like figuring out your measurement mixing lube , bait , pesticide. not everything is 50/50 antifreeze

Had algebra, geometry, trig, and calculus in HS. For some reason I loved algebra, hated geometry, but liked trig. Thankfully only had one semester of calculus before they came up with this new fangled course called computer programming, lol. We thought ain’t no way we’ll ever own a computer, what’s the sense in this? Now I sit here and hold one in my hand.

If you have $100, how many traps can you buy? Algebra!

how many cords of wood in this stack? Base is 90". Height is 72". Depth is 48". Perimeter is a 16' cattle panel with a base of 90"

1.18 Cords

I use it weekly if not daily

Math is only one side of the equation! Pun intended.

I asked how many cords were in a pile. A cord is a volume measurement. Most of us can determine the volume. I deliberately gave some numbers in feet, and some in inches, just to make it sound a little complicated.

The real rub, though, is defining a cord. It is generally understood to be 128 cubic feet. True for 4 foot long logs. If you take those same logs and cut them into 16" lengths there is less air space, therefore taking less overall volume. now split those shorter logs, stack them again and the volume grows a bit due to the jagged surfaces. That's what we have in the photo. In Minnesota a cord of those is 120 cubic feet.

So, the new question is: If you sell a cord of cut and split firewood assuming you needed 128 cubic feet for $300. How much money are you losing when you only needed to supply 120 cubic feet. That's an actual algebra question.

I think there was some sort of Algebra used when tabulating votes in a recent election!

If it takes a chicken a day and a half to lay a egg and a half how long does it take to blow the seeds out of a water melon?

I use math as well, but was referring to the use of Algebra.

I wish schools wouldn't call it algebra.

that is a word that scares people off.

they should call it math.

if taught right you should be learning the principals of algebra in the 1st grade order of operations and such

they have started having kids turn equations around showing then written out several ways

once kids realize how to turn the equation and then add order of operations they are nearly there

Better to have learned it and not need it, then need it and not have learned it.

Somebody better keep me honest... Do the Math

I will bet 99.9 % of the people that learned it will not remember it in one year. For example, can you name the Capitals of each State in 5 min. or less?

I consider the volume to be exactly 1 cord.

My math assumes

• the shape is a parabola
• the area of a parabola is Area=2/3(a)(b)
• "a" = the length of the horizontal line at the base of the parabola
• "b" = the length of the vertical bisector of said line "a"
• Therefore the area = 2/3(7.5 ft)(6 ft) =30 sq ft
• The stack is 48"deep, or 4 ft
• Vol = Area x Depth, or (30 X 4) or 120 cu ft
• The appropriate volume for stacked cut and split cordwood is 120 cu ft per cord. Therefore; 120 cubic feet divided by 120 cu ft per cord = 1cord

Assuming the more commonly considered 128 cu ft per cord that would be 120 cu ft divided by 128 cu ft per cord or .9375 cord.

Note that no algebra was used for this calculation. I see no one has taken a stab at the actual algebra question that I had posted earlier. It can be solved without algebra also, I just requires another step or two. so.

I sucked at math and still do but I use three, four, five method of squaring all the time. That's the extent of my math skill.

You learn algebra so you can help your kids learn it, and then they their kids, and so on and so on.....