Is it unethical to waste fur?

I have a full time job and not much time to trap this season. And I definitely don't have the time for fleshing and skinning a bunch of critters. Do you guys consider it wasteful/unethical to just discard of the critters and not utilize anything from them. Fur isn't worth anything nowadays anyways, so when I do skin it's just for decoration and stuff. I still think getting rid of possums and coons would be a good thing either way. I trap mainly on suburban land and it's infested with them here. In my opinion, you'd be doing populations a favor. Reducing spread of diseases, more prey animals, etc. Just wanted some other trapper's opinions

Damage control.

No.

Fur prices and population control do not always go hand and hand, remember you cannot stockpile critters something will have a impact on them over time one way or another.

You have to decide what is ethical for you. I would say no (not unethical) if you're doing it for damage control and the fur has no value. I would try to find someone who is trapping and offer it to them in the round.

Ethical and legal may not be the same thing, I would check the game laws about any wanton waste rules for furbearers.

it's a crying shame but sadly furbearer's in the south have been reduced to just pest status in the last 20 years. Population's climb to the breaking point then disease breaks out and you have mass die off's and the cycle starts all over again. I guess it's no more wasteful than to not trap let them over populate die off and rot away on their own.

There's just too many of everything now, trappers are few and far between and hunting clubs have ensured only the wealthy can afford to hunt plus kids with video games/phones sit in their house now vs roam the hills with a gun and dog like most of us did growing up so hunter numbers are going down too.

My thoughts exactly. It's just different from hunting because I actually use the meat and can't help but feel a little guilty when I chunk the critters. But no one around here traps so there is way too many of them... I've only seen turkeys once up on this land and I've been going for years. Not a good sign of a balanced population imo.

compost , took 30 coon many of them small from 1 acre this year in 7 days it was a patch of woods between barns and chicken coops

they had to go

That's what I was thinking too. Best if you can make use of the animal, but if you can't damage control can be a necessity.

Wanton waste is a crime many places. I understand damage controll but I ask you this... do you shoot deer and just Chuck them when they are over populated? I would really try to use something. Skulls, glands, fur, meat,claws,etc...

Meat. May be able to sell, or at least give away coons for meat.

Coon meat can be sold in many states.
It also is GREAT snapping turtle bait in summer.
The urine and weeners are marketable too.
...just so ya know.

If I can't use it I won't kill it.......unless it was something like a beaver flooding my house or a squirrel or porky trying to chew into my cabin.

Individual decision.

I wish there was a better thing to do with some

I could try and give the meat away but I don't expect any takers and the fur isn't worth any thing , if there was a place to donate it too I would.

only trapping I did this year was around barns and chickens to solve issues.

I say yes. Why catch them if you don't plan to utilize the resource?

yess!

Because bean headers and sprayers aren’t cheap. Would you build chairs out of barbed wire if you can’t sell them?

Our conservation department will issue damage control tags to farmers to thin the deer heard. Sometimes upwards to 50 at a time.

ol'dad

LukeC,
Being in the South......Even though it sux that our fur is not as desirable as northern fur, there is a market. But you will have to skin, flesh, and dry it. Its been decades since we had a market here in the South for carcass furbearers or green pelts. Beaver and otter can be sold to Groenewold Fur Company but must be skint and frozen. Search their website. They will buy in Perry and Valdosta in March 2021.

Coon and possum meat sales are illegal in Ga because both are also listed as a game animal, in addition to listed as a furbearer. Dont get caught up in illegal game meat sales.

Predator control here in the South is an acceptable reason to trap. Many areas are heavy with nest and fawn predators, so trap em and properly dispose of em, ie. On private property where you have permission to discard the carcasses and well out of public view.

There are a few different ways of looking at this.

But to trap an animal and discard it like trash to fulfill an “itch” is not ethical in my way of thinking.

And I don’t have the time is a horrible excuse.

So you are the guy waxing cars in the junk yard. lol

Doesnt the fur auction places burn fur or dispose that hasnt sold in years?

Depends on the situation. If you’re trapping close to home as a pre-emptive strike against predators killing your livestock, then I still would feel bad pitching them but al least there’s a reason other than you want to. If it’s legitimate damage control then ethically I wouldn’t condemn it.

If the critters aren’t posing a real problem, then absolutely not. Just “keeping the population in check” is not a good enough reason.

Ethics, by my definition, is a personal set of rules that govern how you act. Everyone has widely varying ethical standards. To me, wasting a natural resource is very unethical. Unless that wildlife is in my chicken coop or bothering my bee boxes (wildlife damage control), I'm not going to kill it without utilizing all the parts I can. Fur, meat, skulls, glands. Ethics is doing the right thing even when nobody is watching. Think about your grandmother or granddaughter. Would they be alright with what you are doing?

Jack

I believe the original question was about pitching otherwise marketable pelts. Of course if I catch a critter that has zero pelt value it’s getting pitched. I do not set traps with the intention of pitching my catch, but sometimes a critter is caught that has no value. In that case it is okay to pitch.

I kill all kinds of stuff that are not utilized...Crows, starlings, groundhogs, poisonous snakes, mice, rats, asian carp,
coyotes in the off season, etc, ...It goes on and on.

Some people don't, but that choice doesn't give them the high ground, it's just a choice.

So do I but there’s always a reason. I don’t kill coyotes in the off season unless they pose a direct problem. I kill rattlesnakes because I have small children in the hills with me all the time, and a little girl in our town was killed by a rattler this summer. I kill mice around the property because they pose a health risk. I kill gophers because they destroy farmers fields and they pay me to rid them of the problem. I never kill anything without a reason that is outside of “because I want to”.

Does that mean we can’t be friends if you do? Not at all. I accept that you have the right to kill whatever you want for whatever reason you want, within the law. I just don’t think it’s the right thing to do.

I agree. Grackles an starlings make great target practice in the off season

I'm a full time student and full time employee. Also, the closest property i.have permission to trap on is 45 minutes away. Then 45 minutes back. You do the math and tell me how it is a horrible excuse

In your case, unless the property owner has specifically asked you to take care of a problem he has, it would be unethical in my book. If you don’t have time to skin and flesh, you don’t have time to trap. Reorganize your life so that you do have time next year.

It is a horrible excuse because of the reasons I stated above

It is unethical to waste marketable fur for any reason.If the fur will have no value after processing, it is ethical to not process it.
It is unethical to trap for fun and waste a marketable resource because you dont have "time" to do the work to market it.Same as it is unethical (and an offense) to let an animal spoil in a trap.If thats the case wait until you have or can make the time to trap and prepare the resource for market .

Actually the landowner has specifically asked that I get rid of them. They're infested with possums and groundhogs there. At first I was releasing some of the possums in my backyard, but now they've infested my place and we have too many.

I could just tell them no but then I'd be hunting on there land without any real contribution

Then I would consider it damage control, and while it still doesn’t sit right, I can accept it.

Groundhogs are not furbearers and have no fur value.
I dont think many if any possums have any fur value today.
Tossing those that have been removed as pest/nuisance/overpopulated is fine in my opinion.
I wouldnt target animals that have little or no fur value unless doing nuisance work specifically.

if the pelts were marketable then I certainly would not pitch them.


what makes something marketable is the new question then?

millions of gallons of milk were dumped this year because they were not marketable at the same time more people were out of work than ever before.

there wasn't the facilities to process the milk , keeping it was going to cost more than it was worth hence dumping it

if you skin every coon no matter the size or grade , store it in your freezer and sell it don't you have a net loss and drive the price down further fludding the marjet with fur

all of our trapping in the last 2 years has been within 150 yards of a house ,barn or poultry enclosure.

coons and possum of every size were even paying 5 dollars a head from the one farm for my son to catch dispatch , take a picture of them on the compost pile and email the farm , they would turn them under with the loader regular. best coon money made in years.

How does this sit with you Bob?....Done it just 'cause I wanted too, and left them for the wild hogs and coyotes to eat.

Kill’em and till’em.

Like I said before, you got the right to do it and it’s within the law. We can still be friends, I just don’t do that myself. Doesn’t feel good to me to kill things without a good reason.

Why don't it sit right. You just said you kill things for damage control.

Doesn’t mean I enjoy doing it.

Well let's evaluate that "without a good reason" belief....While it's true I do it for fun and excitement, wingshooting skill exercise, and a deep feeling of satisfaction, there is almost always a good reason to kill.

Crows are notorious killers of birds, they are egg eaters, and baby bird killers...I've personally seen them pick the eyes out of baby rabbits, just for fun.

They decimate waterfowl populations every year.

Huge losses to peanut, pecan, corn, and cotton farmers.

An excellent case could be made that killing a crow anytime for any reason can be made...The crow is just one example, the coyote comes to mind also....It's all just a choice, there is no ethical high ground with the named animals, no one's choice is better or more right.

Nothing takes the edge off like killin’ critters that need killin’.

Must be Maryland humor.

LukeC,
Dont let some of these replies turn you off on trapping for that landowner. Knock those predators out.

How many trappers pitch possums,,,, pitch skunks,,,pitch poor quality critters????

In a few more days I'll show you what I do with these useless coyotes.

There is population control & damage control, you can freeze/hold over till another season, you can tan your fur to keep or give as gifts, you can utilize the meat as food, etc. I am guilty of all these things

Or you can throw them in the pit. If fur doesn't bring a skinning wage are you wasting anything? Do you think it is going to get better holding it? Press on Luke. What you are doings is fine. If the land owner wants them gone, and you don't do it, he will find someone else to do it. The OP is from GA and they are not knocking down doors to buy that type of fur.
Nice pile of crows KY. I would love to get into them like that.

I'm sorry I'm just not eating a possum. Under any circumstances

Venison donation programs here will take it all and feed the hungry

I meant all those things in pro-trapping way. It's all good. EXCEPT eating opossums!

Do they take other critters?

Ag ok I see now what you meant

Nobody wants to process a deer with 10,000 ticks on it. lol I wouldn’t eat it and I wouldn’t expect the needy to either.

The best thing to do is talk about it on here, because we know it's just us trappers reading this.
Carry on

I feel the same, not to extreme like mice and stuff, but if its not worth anything to me I'm not killing it. I do kill critters for pest control on certain farmers lands but that is still of value to me by gaining access to their lands for other things.

Sorry but the antis need to know that it isn’t all about fur. They are going to die anyway because they are a nuisance. There is no reason we shouldn’t have a market. Not wearing fur isn’t keeping them from dying.

The antis are preventing them from going to use.

The game and fish guys read it too and they may disagree with just how "worthless" the furs of furbearers are. Here its illegal to not use the usable portion of the animals you kill on your trapping license. If its worth $3 they may not agree that is worthless, so it's not a good idea to advertise you're killing and tossing stuff they may deem has some value.

Thanks MJM, Those plains up in ND are dynamite for crows in Sept and early Oct...
Any of those bread basket states have huge fall migrations.

Best wingshooting to be had, IMO.

You're OK in Ga with disposal of predators LukeC. Georgia does not have a wanton waste law. I have pretty good knowledge about such things in this state.

Get rid of those nest predators for that landowner an enjoy your trapping time doing so.

Ethics, more often than not, come down to order of priorities, not hard right and wrong answers.

Making use of what we kill is a priority for all of us. But protecting our home, families and self is a higher priority, which is why we kill mice, snakes and hornets without worrying about harvesting them. All of us would also kill a bear that posed a threat to our family, regardless of salvageability. We'll salvage what we can and meet the requirements of the law, of course, but I'm not going to be thinking "I'm not sure whether I should shoot this bear that's stalking my kids in the yard, because the meat's fishy and the fur's rubbed." The higher priority rules.

Farmers face a larger responsibility. Harvesting every animal would be nice, but protecting their livelihood is more important. There was a thread on here awhile back with a link to Agtalk where a farmer was talking about killing 300-500 deer a year in crop protection. It would "nice" if meat hunters, food banks etc could take all of it, but that's not always practical or possible. Should that keep him from protecting his business? I don't think so. Same with possums coons and coyotes in my opinion. Sure, do your best to harvest what you can. But the first priority comes first.

My state F&G has a constitutional responsibility to manage fish and wildlife "for the maximum benefit of the people," "on the sustained yield principle." Part of that comes through predator control programs. Those programs often have some salvage requirement, but I wouldn't care if they didn't, because that's not the priority. White17 and Gulo both spoke strongly on this thread, so I wonder if they support predator control with or without harvest. Did you consider the old programs without harvest requirements unethical, even though they met the higher priority of population management?

Boco often writes about population management on his trapline, and I've always appreciated his perspective of stewardship. But here he writes that its unethical to kill any marketable animal and not process it, even "if the fur will have no value after processing." That seems to imply that it's not marketable. So which is the higher priority Boco, responsible management or putting up no-value fur?

On another note, I've never met a single person who hesitates to kill mosquitoes anytime, anywhere for no reason other than annoyance, and never even try to harvest any part of them! It seems we all have a double standard somewhere...

OP: if they're a problem, killem. Do whatever you want with them after that.

It is all in the timing. If you can get on the right flight path at the right time you could make a pile. I worked trapping for Delta Waterfowl and crows do a lot of damage to duck nest. We don't have a lot of crows that time of the year, but the ones that are here would have places they hauled eggs to eat on mud flats. There would be a unreal number of egg shells where they fed. It was an eye opener.

You misunderstood what I wrote kenai kid.
I wrote that if it would have no value after processing-toss it.

Kenai. Sorry if I've misinterpreted your post. I get the feeling that you don't like my earlier post. You should note that I had a caveat in there about ADC actions. You'll also note that I stated that "ethics" are personal rules under which one operates. I'm not trying to "force" my views on anybody, but it appeared to me that the OP was looking for opinions. Before you go pointing fingers at me, you should know that, for quite a while in Alaska (nearly 3 decades), I was a strong advocate for wolf control (as an employee of ADF&G), and conducted a bit of "control" myself. I strongly believe that, where the science (not fake news) indicates that predator control is the logical prescription, it should be done seriously and continually, until prey populations have adequately recovered. Did I at least try to recover those dead predators so they could be utilized? Darn right I did! I (personally) abhor waste of natural resources, and my personal set of ethics means I'll jump through quite a few hoops to see that waste not happen.

Jack

As far as the predator control. I wasn't harvesting; I was exterminating. The salvage requirements just made it less efficient. The bears that HAD fur got turned into money. I didn't waste any fur.

Carry On!

Well, I'm grateful for everyone's input. Gives a lot of perspective on more than just trapping. Maybe I will try to be more resourceful in the future

It'd definitely be more appealing to skin possums if they didn't smell nearly as bad and ooze green crap all over themselves thirty seconds after putting down

Roger that on the possums Luke C . I put them in the same class as armadillos as far as handling them

I'm not sure what programs you're referring to Kenai. But yes I would consider any program that allowed the taking of a critter and just leaving it to rot, unethical. I agree with you of course where personal protection or property is concerned but that still comes with an obligation to salvage.

Each person has to decide for himself on the individual basis. For me, I haven't trapped a fox in probably 10 years. I happen to believe that at the current market for foxes, they have more value to me and to their own ecosystem, if they are left in place on the landscape. Now if they start raiding my marten traps that's a different story. I'll harvest that one but I will also put him up correctly.

I honestly can't think of a person that I have known who would set out to kill a critter and leave it.

I know they are out there because we have had some outlaw guides who would, I am sure, knock down a moose or caribou and leave it for spring bear bait.

That is despicable behavior IMO.

The OP is apparently talking about possums and maybe coon. No question that it would be a losing proposition to put them up and try to sell them. On the other hand, people do eat both of those critters, so I'm told. If that's the case then surely a dog or cat could eat them also if they were at least boiled.

If he is ok with taking them, but doing nothing with them......that's certainly his choice. It isn't a choice I'd be ok with.

Wasted game laws here could get you in trouble but southern fur ain't much count especially in to day's market. Guess it's how you feel about it. Sometimes though.....

Am I suppose to eat south Texas coyotes?

Only on Sunday

Luke you’re in Georgia, north I’m assuming because I didn’t even know we had groundhogs, but our fur isn’t worth my time. I remember as a kid we’d get upwards of $20 for coons, $35 for fox, and $60 for bobcats...and that was just skint and froze. Now they want it skint, fleshed, and dried and you might get $3 for a coon. Not worth the effort. People generally pay and pay quite well, with perks, for critters to be removed. It’s called MANAGEMENT. Had a landowner call me recently and asked if I was coming back this year? He has seen more quail and turkeys, after two years of trapping his place, than he has since he’s owned it.

I do take urine, skulls, and some meat from the critters, so I’m not actually just ditching them.

I went on what you could call a deer management hunt today. This place is trying to remove 80-100 deer, mainly does, and we got real close to that total after today’s drives. Of course all this meat is accounted for with people still on the waiting list. They started out wondering what they were going to do with all the meat and now it’s like, wait a minute, I want a few as well. Even deer killing can be looked at as management, especially down here in the South.

Boco, you're right, I misunderstood. Thank you for clarifying.

Jack, no issue of disliking your post. It was specifically because of your professional experience that I questioned you, and Ken because of his decades in a (sometimes) predator control area. And I completely agree that ethics are a matter of personal decision and every person is entitled to their own. I also appreciate Dirt's input, having been part of it. Alaska's wildlife control is quite different that the OP's situation, since our main predators have significantly more value. As Dirt said, salvage requirements make it less efficient, but bears and wolves with decent fur are still worth the bother. The question is, would you still support predator control even if wolves and bears had no value? I know I would, because the utilization is secondary to the objective.

If you were exterminating $3 or $5 animals, would you still do the same Dirt? I won't speak for you, but I think there's a break-even point in value vs efficiency somewhere. Sometimes animals gotta be killed that don't have value, or not enough to slow down for.
Ken said "I would consider any program that allowed the taking of a critter and just leaving it to rot, unethical." I don't share that opinion. Mice, brown rats, nutria, hogs, Asian carp, mosquitoes... a few examples. Do your ethics apply to them Ken?
Jack says "I abhor waste of natural resources." I don't. I cut alders and birch by the ton on my trails and leave it to to rot. Sometimes its practical to haul some firewood out, but not much. It lays and rots just like it would if I weren't there, back into dirt. Just like surplus animals if I left them. Do your ethics vary by taxonomy?

Do you fellas skin all your red squirrels, pests or incidentals? Technically they have value right?

Just asking some questions gentlemen. Namely- do your principles and ethics hold up across the board, or are they situation-specific?

I think if there is a practical use for something, then it might as well be used, but sometimes management is the higher priority. We're fortunate in Alaska that almost all of our wildlife has value. It's not always the case. Slay them possums and sleep easy Luke.

I don't wastes anything , I was brought up if you kill it you use it , wasting animals is just giving anti. something to talk about, jmo.

It would seem there are some who equate ethics with money. Why would money even be a part of this equation, and in fact what would our stance be without money being in the mix?

Some times trappers trap for leisure - to unwind so to speak.
Some trap for enjoyment.
Some trap to keep certain animal species in a range of population density per a landowner's request.
Some just like to be out and about in nature with family and friends.

If we make money, ok.
But money has no say in ethics.
In fact, I'd suggest just the opposite.


I've trapped 100 different trapping scenarios in my 51 years trapping from school boy love of it when I was 12 to predator control this very day, and all of it was ethical as I could personally make it.

At the end of the day, I'd say most of us know what is and what isn't ethical.
I'd say do that Luke.

Blessings,
Mark

And what exactly does that talk look like?

Coon damage to a corn field is no difference then groundhog damage in a bean field.
What do you do with the groundhogs?

I have one hard and fast rule. The hunters can not take a "cool" picture of the pit.
That'd be unethical

What's the bible say about killing animals for pleasure Mark?

I did not kill bears for fun. They had to be killed to save thier food source ( and my food source) There was no money in it. I wouldn't have had to do it (or so many) if ADFG could manage wildlife. Very little wildlife in Alaska has economic value when you subtract the cost of production including the cost of your labor from the selling value .

I started trapping exclusively to control coyote population after I saw them attacking fawning does during turkey season one year. I have since broadened my horizons and learned to process fur. It would not hurt my feeling to throw a coyote or any other damage control critter out. Wanton waste in our state does not count for damage control, and yes, people do get deprivation tags to kill deer in the summer in over populated areas. They are not required to harvest the meat or utilize anything on the deer. I like skinning what I catch, but I'm not going to skin a rubbed coyote or mangy one, so what is the difference?

Trapping is important to the north american conservation model not because we can hawk fur and sell coon roots for .50¢ at the flea market, trapping is necessary because it plays an important role in the ecology and conservation of fur bearers.

In the case of the bears, I even had to work ( didn't get paid for this work either) to get it legal to sell them through the opposition( they were getting paid) from ADFG. My public servants.