Muzzleloader for beginners?

For you guys who did alot if muzzleloader shooting, if somone wanted to get into muzzleloader shooting (traditional ) what would y'all reccomed as far as caliber,ignition,type ( Kentucky,Jeager ect). Kit build or fully built ? And so on ?

following

Traditions nitrofire 50 caliber muzzleloader.

My first flintlock was a Lyman Great Plains .54 caliber. Very fast lock and accurate. With a peep site I would consistently clover leaf at 50 yards off the bench. It takes time to find the right patch, load, and ball size (.530 vs .535).

Find yourself a Thompson Center Hawken .50 caliber percussion. Good place to start and work from there. Be careful of who you buy from and make sure the bore has been properly cared for.

Always remember..."First the powder, then the ball. or the dang thing won't fire at all."

Moosetrot

With the traditions nitrofire all you have to do is put the bullet down the barrel then put the all loaded powder shell in the back and done.

This would be where I would start on traditional. If you want more modern go with a TC impact Sb.

Lyman Great Plains 50 cal...percussion or a Hawken 50 cal percussion.....can find some nice used ones. Then you can easy on into the dark side of ( Flintlocks )... Just wait for Green Country Pete to show up with a 2 page report for yah .....

I started with a flinter….Wolfie, as much mechanical ability and love for guns as you have, go ahead and get the flinter.

Your going to end up there anyway, just a matter of time.

Might try a squirrel gun first.....32 to .40 cal....Tennessee Mtn. rifle, with browned poor boy furniture.....Davy Crockett rifle.

TC Hawken .50 cal percussion gun , plenty of good used ones out there ..
Like someone else said , make sure it has a bright bore ( no pits )
Lots of fun to shoot ..and keep clean ..

I would probably stay 50 cal , it's the most common and easiest to find tools and balls for.

there are basically old US guns , Spanish guns and Italian guns

jungar, traditions , cva are Spanish

Lyman , Euro arms, davide Pendersoli are Italian

Thompson center was made in the USA till they had a fire in 1996 that burned up the hawken/senica , patriot and scout lines later they were purchased by S&W and all of the traditional ML were discontinued.

The thompsons were around in great enough number that you can find them yet

they can all be serviceable guns it depends what your looking for in a ML.

I am less of a brand and guy and more what I can find , and find parts for

there are other "custom" manufactures

there are tang breech , button breech and hook breech

tang you need take a screw out to get the barrel out of the stock , button and hook for ease of cleaning I prefer button and hook , knock out the wedge and lift the barrel and start cleaning



Nessy Im gonna keep it short tonight

I just got started with a Traditions Deerhunter .50 cal flintlock. It was inexpensive and I've taken two deer with it since Christmas. Great way to get started.

I started with a flintlock, a .50 cal Pedersoli Long Rifle, six years ago when our game commission eliminated centerfires from the late deer season and made it primitive weapons only. Caplocks not allowed. Cabela's had them on sale for a good price.

It takes a bit of getting used to but I've managed to kill five deer with it in the last six years. I missed a few too. On the range I can consistently shoot a fist-sized group at 75 yards. That doesn't sound very impressive but it is what it is.

If caplocks were legal in late season I probably would have went that route. I shot a .50 cal Hawken for a few years and killed a decent amount of deer and groundhogs with it.

There's a lot less to deal with caplock vs. flintlock.

I personally wouldn't go the route of a modern in-line muzzleloader, I just don't get the point of those.

I’m very partial to TC. A good product and they stand behind it. I have two Hawkins a 50 and a 54. My dad bought the hawkin 50 for me over 30 years ago and it still performs great.

I bought the 54 hawkin 15 years ago at a yard sale for a wall hanger. It was in pretty rough shape. Me being the tinkerer that I am I had to try to get it working. The lock set was seized up. I tore it apart and it was so corroded I couldn’t even identify most of the parts. I contacted tc to inquire about purchasing a replacement lock set and trigger asssembly. After a few email exchanges and me providing them some pictures they informed me that they would be sending me all the parts I needed under warranty and free of charge. I informed them that is was not the original owner and didn’t feel right taking the parts free of charge. They insisted on sending the parts free of charge. Once I received the parts it was not long and the 54 hawkin was back in business.

This.

TC Hawken and Lyman Great Plains rifles are the Chevrolet and Ford pickups of muzzleloading. There may be others purdyer but these two will get you there. Stay away from flinters till you get things figured out. If you buy used look down in the barrel and be sure it ain't a rust bucket. Don't use any kind of petroleum products for patching .

I've had many

Just stay away from foreign made trade guns

Lyman 50 caplock
Thompson center 50 Hawken cap lock

Get into it with one of those and you'll be hooked

"muzzle loaders" the people break down into 2 major categories


traditionalists and season extenders a few people are both.

traditionalist are much more likely to get into muzzle loading for the history , pageantry , attending Redevouze and shooting competitions

season extenders heard they could purchase a way to get more days of hunting in a year. they tend to want it simple just tell me what to buy and how to make a round hit a deer and clean just enough as to not ruin my new season extender before next season.


nothing wrong with either just a who are you and what is your reasoning.

Yep put me into the extend your season group

I used to Rendezvous
Then I quit that and just hunt now

Just to stoke that fire Wolfdog.....many have seen this pic...but it Nevah gets old...lol

Yes Sah !

She’s quick too !

Great lock, and great looking longrifle!....Love the wood figure in that stock.

I always thought the Durs Egg was the classiest lock.

Yup! Can't go wrong here.

Caliber will depend on what you want to do with it... .32 and .36 are good for small game and are cheap to shoot. But if you want to shoot any appreciable distance they lose energy pretty quick. Several states (mine included) will allow .40 cal to hunt deer, but I think .45 is the minimum I would feel comfortable using. .50 is pretty much the standard with the most available tools and ammo. .54 is a close second to the .50 in popularity... You can go up from there to bigger calibers with your powder budget and recoil sensitivity being your limit. But basically .45, .50, and .54 are the most popular and the easiest to find stuff for.

Ignition: flint or percussion. Your choice. Flint is actually very reliable if you're willing to put in a little more effort.

Type: This is purely up to you... Jaeger, Longrifle, Plains/Mountain, military musket, etc... Jaegers and Plains/Mountain guns tend to be larger in caliber than the longrifle (Kentucky) but they can overlap... Lots of .54 Kentucky rifles out there.

Off the shelf, Kit, or custom built: It's your money and "you get what you pay for" applies. A custom build is expensive but it will be built to your specs... Caliber, accessories, length of pull, etc... Plus a well built custom, with proper care, will be an heirloom.

Figure out what you like and what you want and start exploring your options.

Feel free to PM if you have anymore questions.

Mike

Sorry I haven't responded to all this but thank y'all for all the replies !

What I'm getting this summer

I'd take a look at the traditions line and if its something you like you can Upgrade 50 cal. #11 or musket caps most are fast twist nowdays so patched roundball will only shoot with less then 50 grain loads but you'll be able to shoot sabots

That is far from a traditional muzzleloader. Those are fast becoming like the Bow and crossbow debate. I don't have one or want one. I can see they would be easy to load. But kinda rough to call them a 100% muzzle loader. But in Michigan the deer seasons are all blurred now with weapon options.They look interesting though. Disclaimer, I do shoot a crossbow, and have and prefer a #11 ignited cap lock. But a flinter is on my want list.

My 1:48, .50 shoots patched round balls pretty darn good with 80 to 90 grains.

I used to tell customers buying muzzleloaders that every gun has its own personality, and you will need to find the powder load, balls, and patch thickness to match the personality of your rifle (or for Nessie, "gun"). My TC .50 shoots best with balls with 80 grains of FF, or 90 grains with a conical. I found that through many practice sessions.
I only shoot conical now so I honestly don't remember the thickness of the patches I used with round ball. Once you find the recipe that your gun likes it will be a very consistently accurate firearm. Properly clean it and you will have it the rest of your life.

I also found that some guns shoot better with FF, some with FFF. I have never been, nor will be a fan of Pyrodex and only shoot true black powdah (for Nessie again). I have seen a lot of guys assume they can shoot heavy powder loads. I have never shot more than a 90 grain load our of my gun.

Moosetrot

I shoot 70 grains of FFF out of my .50. That gives me a muzzle velocity of about 1,700 FPS. The balls passed through every deer but the second last one which was a high shoulder shot. This one went through both shoulder blades and stopped just under the skin on the offside.

It started at 175 g and ended at 162 g, so 92.57 weight retention. I’ve recovered two 30-06 Core-Lokts (both 150 g pointed soft points) out of deer and neither had near that weight retention. Probably because of the higher velocities.

a bunch of money , they aren't even legal here yet, may never be, they may never catch on in enough places to keep around , It would not surprise me if in 10 years it is non existent at all

I don't ever see 209 ignition as going away , may or may not be legal everywhere but it is legal in a lot of places

musket caps and #11 have been around since 1840 and a person could easily buy a lifetime supply of them , the #11 are popular enough I think they will be around a good while longer.

I only wish I had bought 5K caps when they were 30-35 dollars for 1K now at 55-65 dollars a K I still need to get a few more.

If anyone has a source for RWS #11's or RWS musket caps I would like to know about it.

Moosetrot

As good as you are with your hands - you should build you a Flintlock Southern Mountain Rifle Jim Kibler sells kits and if I can put one together - anyone can. He has videos online showing each step on the building of the SMR (Southern Mountain Rifle). Since you are down there in Mississippi, not sure what your laws are for calibers. You might check that out first. I chose a .45 caliber for my area and I have the equipment for that caliber already. If I build another one of Jim Kibler's kits, it will be a .40 caliber.

It's all about more hunting time to me.The gun is just the tool to shoot the deer with.Should be very easy for a beginner to load.......lol just looked back at original post.I had only looked at the headline ..Muzzleloader for a beginner.I did not see in parentheses in the post itself (traditional). My apologies.

Nice work Don!

Mike

Midway had them last week.

Tastes Like Chicken from this sight had/made the coolest.
He told me my TC-K Hawkin was junk.
I miss him and his brutal honesty.

One thing I learned, my .50 likes 3f much better than 2f
Well two things lol. When I got a load stuck in there,
I removed nipple, screwed in a zerc,
and pumped it out with grease gun.

.54's were fun but .50 gives you the best choice for supplies

Wright, I double loaded mine at the beginning of this season. (I'm old and had a brain fart).

I took it out to the shop, took took the vent screw out, stuck a blow gun with the rubber nozzle and shot it out with about 90 psi. I didn't need that much. One of the balls put a 1/2" dent in the side of my workbench.

It's a lot less messy than the grease method.

I tried that lug, the pancake wouldn't do it.
I did use it to blow the grease out, and onto the wood splitter mast.
I've seen aerosol kits for this back when we had more real gun stores.

That thing was a ton of fun,
from the no-load, watch you buddies flinch,
to taking the first deer before it was blued.

I have the little CO2 cylinders/kits but never tried them. I also have a ball puller that I tried once just to see if it would work. It did work with a clean barrel, don't know if it would with a fouled barrel.

Not fun.

I pulled the nipple once packed in some FFG with a flat pencil. Screwed in the nipple and added a fuse. My Great Uncle wore his welding mask ...we lit the fuse. We were out of caps, and dad wouldn't let me bring the ML home loaded.
I told him it was safe but he didn't believe me. Gun went off, blew my Uncles mask back . He had a huge grin on his face.

I understand what your saying and I am not a traditional purist inlines are great , but really no different than a standard percussion gun accept that you have a removable breach plug this is more of a cleaning and maintenance aid than changing how they are loaded or shot.

the nitro fire is a cartridge based propellant and primer with a muzzle loading projectile and not approved in a lot of states even ones that allow inlines and 209 ignition for hunting during the muzzle loader season

Muzzle loading isn't difficult , I teach it to new 12 year olds nearly every year. by the end of a few hours they have loaded and fired around 40 times

there is a process and a reason for everything . it just seems that in our modern world of all the info at our finger tips , muzzle loading missed the information super highway in many regards. not completely because we are talking about it right now but the resources are not as plentiful.

I just went looking for videos and didn't really find a good tutorial , which makes me think I may have to make one If I can find the time.

there are some resources through the NMLRA national muzzle loading rifle association however most muzzle loading is taught in person.

like so many things gun there is a lot of miss information taken from anecdotal evidence one is that there is a great delay in flint lock ignition a flinter can be quite fast , it can even be fired upside down. what how is that possible the frizzen holds the powder from getting out of the pan if there is no gravity to hole the powder in the pan when the frizzen is opening .... the answer is the flash is that fast the sparks are shooting into the powder as it falls and the flash is what is supposed to travel down the flash channel , not a fuse of powder.

wading through the lack of information and the miss information is a mine field for sure.

Traditions nitrofire is now legal in these states with more to follow
Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Alabama, Georgia, New York, Vermont, New Jersey, and Maryland.

There is a nice Thompson Center Hawken 50 , for sale on Muzzle Loaders forum now for $385 shipped to your door ...

Dang I do like the look of that ! For somone wanting kinda a middle of the road deal caliber wise would you recommend.45 or .50 ? Was really wanting a .32 because I have a feel most of what I'd be doing is knocking targets or punching paper but really wanted that ability to take decent sized game as well

Ok another question for a guy like me in the south, high humidity,lots of rain and so on , would it just be best to avoid a flintlock all together?

Think may have found something guys.

Why the RWS? Curious,

I hunt the Pennsylvania late season with my flintlock. We get a good amount of rain and snow during that period. The trick in damp conditions is to change the priming powder often. The very fine FFFF attracts moisture and can cause a lack of pan ignition. Changing it every hour minimum avoids that. If the pan fires, the main charge fires, never had it not happen

These two from last week wish I would have left the priming powder alone.

Scrapple in the future for Lug.
Were there guys moving deer where you hunted?
Pretty nocturnal over here but did see major sign in some other areas.
Winter been kind of mild so far and looks good for next time.

WD you're gonna like this, once geared up you can shoot and clean
for many hours until needing to buy ammo.
Yes the flinters are a pain when damp, change often like said.

Yes to scrapple! We will be making it and many pounds of sausage in the near future.

I hunt solo. I got lucky five years ago and obtained sole access to a farm that abuts my property when the ownership changed hands. It features a 40 acre swamp that is ideal deer habitat. The swamp and woods sits next to a large field that has been fallow for about ten years. That's where I got these two. One Wednesday a week ago and the other last Saturday.

I just sit on stand and wait for them. Sometimes they show up, more often they don't.

The first was a high shoulder shot, anchored her, she literally dropped in her tracks. The second was a heart shot, she ran about 55 yards before piling up.

50 cal. 175 grain patched round ball over 70 grains of FFFg.

I recovered the ball from the first one. It passed through both shoulder blades and stopped just under the skin.

the Kentucky is a tang breech meaning a screw holds the barrel in as well as 2 pins

so if you remove the barrel for cleaning it is 2 pins and a screw each time

other than that I like the weight forward balance it balances' about a foot in front of the trigger nice long sight radius