Medical Marijuana and 2nd Amendment ???

"There are two sides of the fence, use marijuana and give up gun ownership or give up marijuana and be a gun owner."

So a guy I used to work with that retired messaged me last night. He has cancer and said he got his pot card. He said the dispensary is right here by my work and I jokingly said well maybe I should join up. His reply kind of surprised me when he said there was only one hitch... I'd have to give up my gun rights. So I did a little reading and sure enough. The ol state law verses federal law contradicting each other deal. i.e. state laws governing medical marijuana drug use vs federal law governing the sale, purchase, and ownership of guns and ammo.

So I'm sure there are people on here that have their cards. The one guy from Michigan used to have some interesting posts actually. So the people on this site with a card I'm sure haven't given up anything and I get that ok so don't go buy a new rifle and fill out the form if you have a card, but you aren't allowed to posses guns or ammo either. Say you even half accept that to not have say your CCW carry in your car at the same time as your pot gummy bears when you get pulled over but really it applies to you in your home as well. Just doesn't seem right to have cancer, need a legal drug, and have to give up your 2nd A rights!

I can't see being 60 years old, having cancer, needing a drug, and giving up your rights to hunt. Thats just wrong.

Maybe its been talked about on here before that I have missed but I see that its already been to and lost at the Nevada Supreme court which is very pro gun from what I remember.

I see there is a bill to decriminalize weed federally so it isn't listed with the hard drugs which solves the problem but who knows what Biden is going to do with it and gun ownership in general.

What say you?


" *****************
As far as marijuana laws are concerned, the federal government allows legal states to draft their own laws and implement them. A stoner can have regular visits to the cannabis dispensary without any hitch. The federal government intervenes only if large amounts of marijuana are involved. While legal marijuana states permit people to use clinical and/or recreational weed, federal law says a toker cannot purchase and own a gun. A violator faces serious criminal charges with a federal penalty of five-years jail time and a $10,000 fine.
" *****************

The Federal Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Federal Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act of 1997 make it illegal for a person who fits into any of the following categories to ship, transport, receive or possess firearms or ammunition.
Persons who are unlawful users of or are addicted to narcotics or any other controlled substances, including medical marijuana.
Federal law prohibits medical marijuana users from possessing or buying firearms and ammunition — even if state law allows the drugs use.
Form 4473 of the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) states that anyone attempting to buy a gun from a licensed seller must truthfully answer a series of Yes/No questions, including:
“11.e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?”
A marijuana user could, in theory, answer “No” to question 11.e., but that respondent would be violating federal law by doing so and it is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal law, and may also violate State and/or local law.

" *****************
What if You Already Have a Gun
Your licensed gun isn’t legal if you are a marijuana consumer.
ATF specifies that a marijuana consumer cannot legally own a gun. The federal government states that a user of a controlled substance may not own a gun or ammunition.
In legal marijuana states, federal law for gun ownership applies. Some states contact medicinal marijuana patients to ask them to turn over their licensed firearms. Those who did not might wind up with grave weapon charges when the law catches them. You have to deal with the state for the drug offense while the gun charge is a federal one.
" *****************
https://www.legalreader.com/marijuana-laws-and-gun-ownership/

What is a licensed firearm?

I assume some states have licenses. Ohio does not.

I hope I'm never in need of that type of pain relief.

That's absurd. Do you forfeit your right to own firearms if you own or buy alcohol? What about prescription meds?

Pot is a "schedule 1" narcodic like heroin. alcohol and pain meds are not.


"Schedule I drugs are the most dangerous drugs of all the drug schedules with potentially severe psychological or physical dependence. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are: heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote."

I will never give up my guns.Easy choice

Weed will always be the devil to many because that's what their Grandma told them. God put weed on the earth for a purpose. IMO it's fine in it's natural state.
Cell phones are much more dangerous.

Cell phones doesn't kill brain cells

[/quote]Cell phones doesn't kill brain cells [/quote]
They do much more in terms of negativity.

The Ohio law is ridiculous and seems pretty unenforceable after 5 minutes of reading.

While I don't think it's right, I'm against legalizing marijuana to begin with. Not that I'm all that concerned about someone using marijuana. Actually, I think it's less dangerous than alcohol. The reason that I am against legalization is because it won't stop there. Give an inch and they take a mile. It would be that path to legalization of hard drugs. I've said that for years and recently have been proven correct.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/04/election-drugs-oregon-new-jersey/

Correct Finster

Legalize all drugs.

The government should not tell adults what they can and cannot do with their bodies.

In communist countries they kill the druggies.

I was generally opposed to the legalization here in Canada for the reason stated above but not strongly opinionated about it. Unfortunately our liberal federal government did so without doing enough to protect young people or to capitalize on it from a control and tax benefit perspective.

When it affects a multitude of others it can. Your rights do not supersede mine or mine yours.

I haven't got my card just for this reason. In the last 6+ months I smoked a few times but didn't inhale (lol) to help with the pain. It helped my pain and depression. Not sure if it's state or federal law but here they treat using weed and possessing a gun just like drinking and possessing a gun.
In Albuquerque possession (w/o card) of less than 1 oz is treated like a ticket.
The first time I saw my primary doctor he highly recommended me getting my card especially since I don't want our like opioids

Finster apparently wants to ban alcohol, cars and guns. Your argument is one of a liberal.

As usual, you cannot comprehend a simple issue. Good grief, you suck at debating. Where is that even stated? I made my points perfectly clear, no need to build bridges to obscure points.

Reread what you wrote, great debater.

"I refuse to give up a right for another right or privilege." Pretty simple quote to understand, more should live by it.

[
Take a class in reading comprehension.

You really are a great debater.

Isn't this the argument made against your right to have certain guns? I know it is. BC for the win.

Bruce, then you should be safe being in a "communist country" as so many claim.

No as I attend church and also own guns,hunt,trap,and fish

Is alcohol regulated by government? Are cars regulated by government? Don't bother looking it up, I'll answer it for you. YES. Why? Because they are not a right. Nowhere in the constitution do you have a right to drive a car, a right to drink, a right to do drugs for that matter. These things, and many others are regulated because of their potential to inflict harm on innocent people. You don't want someone drinking and driving to wipe out your family do you? You don't want a 10yo behind the wheel of a car going down the road do you? I doubt it. Why? Because the effects of such actions can be devastating to innocent people. Now, what is more devastating in a society that hard drugs? Violence, theft, overdose, homelessness, plummeting property value, rape, murder, you name it. All of it rises exponentially with the use of hard drugs. To disagree would not only be dishonest but an outright lie.

So the people that are claiming communism in the USA are full of it then?

Why is it that Canucks have to intervene into things they know nothing about?

Communist is headed this way and will take our gun rights if it does arrive

Its a losing argument

I'm just regurgitating what I'm trying to digest on here.

And I do know about the legalization of marijuana. It hasn't changed life one bit except that I now see all sorts of people from all walks of life that i didn't know were closet criminals walk in and out of the weed store when I am on main street.
Someone once said that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Like I said, he sucks at debate.

Just more B.S. that is being pushed on us. JMO

By your own examples, alcohol and cars can cause damage to other people--yet are regulated, not illegal. Driving drunk is a crime. Driving high is a crime. The same analysis applies to someone using marijuana and driving whether marijuana, for example, is legal or not. As for deeming drugs illegal, that has worked great. All this country has done is waste billions of dollars fighting a failed drug war.

Regarding the crimes some using drugs will commit, the same thing can be said for alcohol. For those ills that are not criminal, those already happen now.

And, by the way, the Constitution does not list every right a human being has.

Be careful giving the government the power to restrict freedoms you do not deem important. I promise you will hear that same rationale being used against you when restricting a freedom you do deem important (e.g. guns).

You are the best debater on the site. Clearly.

Right will always be right.Wrong will always be wrong.

That is not even remotely close to what I said.

The constitution names rights that supersede government that are given to us by God. If you think that more rights should be named, you should try to get it amended. Talk to a real lawyer and have them explain that and what it takes. Since you are determined to muddy up the water by going off on tangents, I will indulge you for a reply. Now, although alcohol has it's host of problems. I will ask you to look at the stats. A user of alcohol is far less likely to be responsible for some heinous event or crime like, let's say a meth head or a heroine junkie. People can have a glass of wine or a few beers and be fine. How many people mainline or snort heroine or meth and go about their daily routine of contributing to society? I'm willing to venture a guess that per captia it's probably 1000 to 1 maybe even more. No one is restricting freedoms here. your "freedoms" stop when you and your actions impede my freedoms.

You will have no “ rights” when the Nation is ran on feelings you already lost the 1st the 2nd will be next then the rest will fall. If you speak out you will be labeled a extremist domestic terrorist just watch the news it’s already happening.

The upside is, with the travel restrictions due to covid, in weed states, you can “take a trip and never leave the farm”!!

I agree with you completely, now, who wrote this for you?

You are just repeating the same argument. Anyway, I need to get to work. Maybe we can resume this later.

You keep advocating for government control. I will keep fighting for freedom.

Tell me, how does it feel to be right?

Yup, bail out, probably the best move you can make.

Winds blowing out of Cali today just the vibe I always get.

Stick to bein right, not makin someone else wrong.

You are right, Finster. I have first hand knowledge of your first sentence with my oldest son and his drug use.

Funny all your arguments can be used against firearms ownership as well. Example: your right to own a gun dose not trump my right to saftey. Guns kill thousands a year in war zones, crime, suicide, ect.... they need more restrictions.


I have no problem with my 10 year old driving down the road or grabbing a rifle and running his traps by himself. Yet there are plenty of adults I would trust with neither.

You don't want true freedom. A lot don't its scary. I bet you won't comprehend the argument I'm making either.

It's federal law and applies to the whole US. I think it would be changed except democrats, who mostly love dope, mostly fear and hate guns.

Keith

This post is about an infringement of our 2A but at the risk of sounding political what did yall think would happen when ya put the guberment in charge of every aspect of your life and liberty?

It’s not for pain.

Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting documentation?

Editable sure made a difference for mom while dealing with cancer treatments. Nothing else worked and she could have her Dr wright her an rx for anything except marijuana being she lives in Indiana. Every person that was around her commented on how much better she sounded and looked after a small piece of chocolate.

It's not the govermens business what someone puts in there bodies. O but all the bad that goes with it they say..


NEWS FLASH everything has bad that goes with it. A guy ran a red light and killed my 17 month old son. I darn sure don't blame the truck and say make the illegal.

I see the nanny state is alive and well...

Get your vaccine. Don't smoke weed. And support gun control.

A good citizen would accept nothing less for the greater good of his fellow man.

Mike

And if someone wants to kill that unborn baby inside them, go ahead. Gubmint says it's okay.

You asking me?

Funny how that works eh Gary? We can't allow certain things because they MIGHT effect the lives of others... However something that terminates the life of another... Nobody else's business.

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy. But everyone is fine with it as long as it's their favorite flavor.

Mike

I'm not "fine" with it... Just like I'm not "fine" with my neighbor polishing off a bottle of whiskey every night... But until he does something that effects me personally it's none of my business. Under the influence means just that... If someone kills a family of four while driving under the influence then I am not going to say, "Well at least it was legal alcohol and not that evil cocaine..." That person is responsible for their actions no matter what their poison of choice is.

Just because a substance is legalized doesn't mean that irresponsibility is also legalized. We recognize that fact with alcohol.

Mike

CNN is suggesting NewsMax & OAN be forced off the air.

No, firearm ownership is a RIGHT. Doing drugs, drinking, driving and the like are not. It's a pretty simple concept. You are correct, I do not comprehend your argument because it is obtuse and childish.

Ok, give me one example, just one of a hardcore drug user that has not affected someone else's life in a negative way? Just one.

Define "negative way" then... Addiction? Heartbreak? Overdose?

Absolutely. No question.

Guess what? I have alcoholics in my family... one in my immediate family. I've seen and dealt with the effects personally. There are even some drug addicts in my family... Some are recovering, sadly some are not.

So yeah, I speak from experience. And I'm still of the opinion that legality/illegality and throwing trillions of dollars at the problem is not doing anything to stop it.

It's the Volstead Act all over again.

Mike

couldnt wait to use that couldja?

Cell phones have killed more brain cells than all the drugs put together.

Nope.

Bang

BangBangBangBang.....reload...BangBangBang...

Those that say people don't do hard drugs and then continue on with thier jobs and be productive members of society have obviously never been in the oil patch and surely have never been around pipeline welders. Those boys snort coke for breakfast and wash it down with whisky and then carry on with thier day. Is it a good thing? No probably not, but they should have the right to put anything in thier body they see fit, if that so happens to effect someone else's life as in an accident resulting in death then they have to pay the consequences. The "war on drugs" is a huge farse that has caused more misery and loss of life than the drugs they are supposed to be fighting. I've been around a lot of alcoholics and I've been around about as many potheads. I'll take the pothead hands down every time over an alcoholic. I've seen lots of violent alcoholics but never seen a violent pothead. Marijuana helps a lot of people with a host of different problems. And being able to take the medication that helps you shouldn't cost you the right to keep and bear arms.

Not from what I have seen.My brother is a prime example.Pot has made him lazy,skitsifrantic ,paranoid and violent.I would not go and knock on his door in the middle of the night.

I have/ had a friend like that Bruce

So your brother is the model that we consider representative of an entire segment of the population?

Where have I heard that before?

Mike

Where in the bible are these rights God gave us? Other than following him or not.

He is not the only one.Know slot of people that pot makes slow acting drones.Alot look twice their age.A few stay with pot but most of them turn to stronger and stronger drugs to get their fix such as meth.heroin.lsd,crack,and fentanyl.

You can not GIVE rights, you can only take them away.

So what area does drinking fall into?

Free Will?

If I choose not to believe in God should the government throw me in jail? Or should the consequences be between God and myself?

Mike

Fall into? Clarify your question.

Mike

Just say no beer for you and you will find out quick who like their beers. LOL.

Here's my deal on this...

I don't do drugs. Don't like drugs. I do my best to avoid people who use drugs. But until their drug use effects me then I don't care what they do...

I can buy enough whiskey to drink myself to death and they'll sell it to me without a problem... The only time drinking becomes a problem is when I climb behind the wheel while tanked, or get drunk and run down the street naked while shouting at the top of my lungs, etc...

The federal government decided to cure society's ills with alcohol and passed the Volstead Act. It didn't work, it was expensive to try to enforce and created as many problems as it tried to alleviate.

Constitutionally, drugs and alcohol don't even fall under the fed's charter... I suppose someone could argue interstate commerce but that's been twisted so far beyond original intent that it's laughable...

It's a state and local issue... Which is kind of the point of the whole thread.

Mike

Trouble for me is I am surrounded by drug heads and bums.Alot of it is family or married into the family.A person can't get away from it.Some days a person could just scream.Going to be so nice to get a 3 week break away from this madness.

Understood. I have family members I avoid completely for the same reason.

Mike

The way I see it, when it comes to Cannabis, the State verses Federal issue; is like a North bound Train and a South bound Train heading down the same Track! Eventually, there is going to be a case brought to the US Supreme Court based on a State's right to decide how it wants to deal with the recreational use and sale of LEGAL Cannabis products. What it boils down to, are these issues.

1. A LOT of States are suffering financially. NYS, for example , has a shortfall in their 2021 budget of over $13 BILLION dollars. That is not even taking into account the State related Debt of over $ 60 BILLION dollars for 2021.

2. Overall, the MAJORITY of the population approves of Legalizing Cannabis.

3. Health issues: Are you really going to deny someone who is suffering from some debilitating or fatal disease, the use of Cannabis; if it is used to ease their suffering ?

4. TAX REVENUE !!! It will not solve a huge budget deficit. But, it will help.

5. Business opportunities ! Businesses create JOBS ! They spend money . They pay TAXES!

As for the 2nd Amendment, That is going to have to be decided in the USSC. If enough States fully legalize recreational Cannabis, I can't see how a Federal ban on Cannabis will be able to stand. The IRS already REQUIRES Cannabis dealers to pay income taxes on their earnings from the sale of Cannabis products. So, how can the Federal Government on the one hand demand Federal Income tax money from the sale AND Purchase of Recreational Cannabis, and on the other hand, tell people that if you are a user of Cannabis that you PAID SALES TAXES on !, you lose your right to own a Firearm ? Before 1930, Cannabis was completely legal.

Ya that's their business and not mine untill it affects me. Just becuse something bad may happen doesn't mean I need to have the government restricting freedoms. It's my responsibility to protect me and mine.

Drugs are illegal yet dose that stop anything? Nope my neighbor is still out at 3am all night a lot of night. I'm betting meth. He seems to be a nice guy and as long as it stays on his side party on. It it comes to my side I will solve that problem without any outside help.

Yea, and if he gets in a car or freaks out and kills a little kid down the street then oh well, at least you and yours are safe this time. RIGHT!
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” - Edmund Burke

My girlfriend has the medical card. She had to turn in her conceal carry permit after getting it. She never carried anyhow. She was injured by an uninsured driver in Ohio and went through pain management and every other option for her back injury before back surgery. They had her on some strong drugs and even had a seizure from a bad combination the nurse gave her after surgery. If I was pouring concrete that morning she might have died.

Medical marijuana has helped her and she doesn't have to take harmful narcotics anymore. I've road to the place with her and all types of people were going in and out and it's always busy. It's taking money out of drug dealers pockets and giving thousands of people good paying jobs in this state. It is somewhat new around here but I know the revenue must be impressive. I'm not sure the pot use even went up around here very much since it's legal.

So we're banning something because somebody MIGHT do something? None of that silly "innocent until proven guilty" nonsense huh?

Better hand in your guns and traps before something bad happens comrade.

Mike

Pot needs to be federally legalized. It’s only a big deal because people make it a big deal. Here in Nevada it’s legal recreationally, and there have been exactly zero negative effects on the state of affairs here. They can’t take away your guns here for using it, because they don’t even know wether or not you use it or wether you have guns, you don’t need a permit for either. Now if you’re high and in possession of a gun, just like drunk and in possession of a gun, that’s a problem. And for all intents and purposes, before anyone asks, being in your home where your guns are stored and being drunk/high is not an issue. Nobody is going around knocking on doors checking if you are drunk/high and searching your house for guns.

I know A LOT of people who smoke, both medically and recreationally, and I know maybe one or two that are your stereotypical “stoner”. Some of them are school teachers, some of them construction workers, farmers, cowboys, business owners. They work hard and are productive, responsible members of society. Pot isn’t a problem. People always seem to think it’s the same as heroin or meth. It’s really not.

No, like most that keep talking but not listening, you are missing the point. First, drugs are not a right. Guns are so that comment is moot from the get go. Secondly, Not banning Meth, Heroin and other hard drugs because someone "might" do something. They need to be banned because users do things. All of them do things that affect society in a negative way. Again, this is a very simple concept.

You would be better off just taking a ticket for smoking weed then getting a card and having to
Give up your guns. Pretty Simple solution. Just smoke your weed if you want to and live your life

I haven't really seen a post on here saying pot was even that bad. In fact, I agree just like I said in my original post back on page 1. The problem is that this will not be the end of it. In fact it's the beginning. Other drugs, much harder drugs will eventually be legalized. It's already happened in Oregon. Once the greedy politicians see the tax revenue, they will start the ball rolling. After all, the last thing they really care about are the people. that is very obvious. The harder drugs are the problem and it's coming. Think things are bad now with the drug problem? Wait until it's legal and there is even less of an issue getting it (not that it's difficult now).

Here is the point you fail to understand... Once you set the precedent to give government the power to ban something because a segment of the population use it in an irresponsible/criminal manner, you've opened the door for them to do whatever they want in the name of "public safety"

You literally just posted a YouTube video about a gun manufacturer being sued into bankruptcy because antigunners think he should be responsible for the actions of the end-users of his products.

You can't seem to make the leap that "But it's drugs" is the same as "But it's guns"

We don't prosecute people for what they MIGHT do. A free society means you have to wait until a crime is committed.

Mike

Who benefits the most from the "War on Drugs"?

O you think that making drugs illegal makes a difference.

Finster, you don’t seem to understand that wether it’s legal or not has zero effect on wether or not people do it. All drugs should be legal, the only thing making them illegal does is give power to cartels and create a drain on our tax dollars. Putting someone in jail has never stopped them from continuing to use meth. Not once. There are the people who do meth and the people that don’t, and wether it’s legal or not has no bearing on which ones are which.

You are using the verbiage "segment of the population" Fine. Mike, can you give me one example of a segment of the population of hard drug users that has had a positive effect on society? By your verbiage, you apparently are saying that some of the people use meth and heroin responsibly. I've never seen one. In addition, you keep bringing guns into this argument (yes, I haven't forgotten the OP). Guns are a right. It's a completely different subject. Can that right be taken away? Sure! However, it must be done with due process. One last point, you say wait until a crime is committed and not for what someone might do. Well, if the neighbor is high on meth and meth is illegal, a crime has been committed has it not?

I disagree. Prisons are full of people that used to do hard drugs. many of them change their ways and a lot of them stay clean after prison. People that go to AA or NA call this "hitting rock bottom"

Didn't see anyone calling you that. We are having a civil debate here.

Take a look around the government does do what it wants .

Lol if you ever interacted much with druggies, which I have, or gone to many AA meetings, which I have, you’d know that prison isn’t “rock bottom” for 99 percent of em. Just a speed bump. When druggies talk about rock bottom, they’re talking about when they got high and beat the crud out of their wife and kids and woke up in icu from overdose, then when they get released nobody will pick them up cause they’ve burned all the bridges. When they finally do get home, their family is gone along with all their stuff. That’s a “rock bottom” scenario. Prison is just an inconvenience. And many times they can still get the stuff in prison so it’s not even that.

No avoiding the profanity filter.

I’ve heard a lot of addicts at meetings say “I’m only here because if I don’t come I’ll get arrested again”, they do their mandatory meetings and go about life as usual before prison. A lot of them get busted again for drugs within ten days of release

Beating drugs is tough for many, some only need to see themselves in a mirror.

Yes a lot of them do. I was making a point. However, not all do and prison (not jail) is rock bottom for many. Like everything else, some people just go through the motions but there is no denying that it does help some.

Oregon decriminalized drugs, not legalized them, it’s important to understand the difference. Yes, there are terrible people that use them but there are also scenarios where people function on them. Yes, meth addicts and heroin users likely don’t but don’t think there isn’t more than the odd recreational coke user out there who also goes to work every day, coaches his kids little league team and hosts bbqs for his beer drinking neighbor buddies. Decriminalizing cocaine just means your tax dollars aren’t spent hunting him and keeping him in jail. For the dudes providing it, it’s still illegal.

Sure, some coke heads function. A lot of them don't. We had a problem (still do) in this country awhile back. It was called the "Crack epidemic". Cocaine is not a soft drug.

I never said it was Fin, I also never said it was a good life choice. I’m just pointing out that making them a criminal for it does nothing to help your society. I never said to make it legal to do “illegal things” bc of it, ex impaired driving, theft. Making or keeping it illegal does nothing to stop the using aspect of the behaviour anyways.

Extrapolating on your point.
I hear this argument often and it's convoluted logic. Laws are not a suggestion. It doesn't mean that you probably should not use it or possess it. But I digress, being incarcerated because of it is not really to help the addict or to stop people from using. It is to punish people that use and take these people out of society. I don't see it as a deterrent. How this myth of a deterrent ever came about confuses me. Laws by nature are not a "deterrent" they are rules we live by that, if crossed have, in some cases, serious consequences. By using your convoluted logic, murder should not be illegal because it won't stop someone from doing it.

Given how many resources go to dealing with drug issues by law enforcement and the courts, I guess some don't want the tax relief that would accompany drug legalization.

It costs a lot of public money to try to enforce drug laws. We really could defund the police and courts partway, if drugs were decriminalized.


Jim

100% proof positive that I am correct, James is for legalization. Gee, who would have guessed.

Fin, I felt like despite the difference of opinion you were doing a respectable job of debating but now you’ve compared someone who kills someone else to someone who snorts a line of coke (poor decision) before playing a game of poker. you’re clearly unwilling to accept the decriminalizing and legalizing aren’t the same.

Before bed, you should wonder what “good guy” you know, you also think should go to jail. You know one.

Edit

I think I would be okay if drugs were legal as long as it was also legal to kill people over stuff.

Lawyers

Not what I'm saying at all. Look a little deeper. You are saying that laws are not really a deterrent for drug use correct? People are going to do what they are going to do correct? I simply explained that the laws are not meant as a deterrent but as a punishment. If laws were meant as deterrents, then we would not need laws for anything because people are going to do what they want anyway. I was using murder as an example.

Plus cops and politicians and government employees.

Jim

Please defund the police in the inner cities. PLEASE!!!!

It amazes me how one human can be wrong in every aspect of thinking, every single time and live to be as old as James.

Politicians are the ones who benefit the most. Not many cops living in million dollar homes. Most politicians are lawyers.

If there are more jobs for cops, then cops as a class benefit too.

Same argument for lawyers, even though most do not get involved in criminal cases.

Jim

No amount of money would get me to take a job in law enforcement in the current environment that has been created by politicians.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...ord-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

21-c on the ATFs background check address this.

Just happy that I do not need ANY alcohol or drugs to enjoy my life.

As far as the rest of this discussion goes, have at it but I just want to live and enjoy my life from here on out.....everyone can do what they want but just stay out of my way.

Was it El Chapo's trial where the testimony linked his organization to prominent members of our government?

Criminalization guarantees a monopoly... That's why drugs are so lucrative. All you have to do is pay a little to the politicians to look the other way and keep voting to protect your monopoly.

Mike

People not on drugs.

The hypocrisy here never ceases to amaze me. It boils down to the drunks trying to look down their noses at cannabis users. Claiming cannabis leads to heavy drugs, but drinking beer dont lead to shots of JD lol

And who are you freedom hating folks trying to take some ones liberty from doing what he wants in his house.( Driving and using is already illegal).
Waaaaaaaaay more harm has come to society from alcohol, and always will, than all illegal drugs combined.

Cannabis has been proven medically to help with a host of different problems. Many states now have full legalization and no major problems. We have been legal here for years and I never seen a problem yet. Just more tax money to pay for city services that benefit all.

Here is my opinion on drugs and most everything else:

Do whatever you want, ans long as it harms no one else.
DO NOT bill me for it, or ask me to pay for it.

The biggest winner in the war on drugs is the drug dealer. It creates demand.

Please tell us how you have benefitted from the war on drugs.

I have a nice home. A wife of 30 years. 4 children and a grandchild. I held a good job for 20years that allowed me to build some wealth. I have my health. These are just the big ones.

Had drugs been legal with no war on them I would most likely still be working at a job that I could still do stoned, living in a trailer with a bunch of pit bulls on chains all around it living from week to week hoping my car didn’t break down. lol

So the orig post was to see if there was a way around having a pot card and losing 2A rights. Apparently there is not. The one guy said just do weed if you want and keep to yourself. That makes the most sense but then you can't shop at the pot store and get the variety they provide for whatever ales you. I think alot of people would be surprised how many diff kinds of pot there are. Just like there is a pill for what ales you, there is a strain of pot and each strain comes in a diff form. Its not just a couple diff bags of weed that you roll into papers. The variety is mind boggling. Point being buying a bag off your highschool buddy isn't the same thing. To understand that though you have to accept that there is truly people using legal pot for medical uses and not to just get high.

I do not agree with the guy saying it being legal has no bearing on who does it and who doesn't. When I was a kid weed was illegal. If you got caught with it, it was a big deal. They pushed it as being a gateway drug, being bad, and it being illegal. Just Say No. Parents today are faced with trying to convince their teenagers that pot is bad and that they shouldn't be doing it as it is going legal in our state and across the country with the majority of people in society spouting off about how harmless it is. Its silly to think that it being legal doesn't get more people to try it.

As far as people using hard drugs and living normal lives... Not everyone that uses heroin lays in the alley and can't move. Its my understanding there are a lot of people in society that shoot up everyday not for the purposes of getting high and being out of it like you see in the movies but just enough so they don't get sick and then go out and function in society at work everyday. Thats why people OD in bathrooms all the time. They didn't go in there to get high. The went in there b/c they were getting sick and needed a dose to get through the day. They OD bc its not like Tylenol and you don't know if you are getting a 200mg pill, 500mg, or 1200mg pill. They say there are lawyers, doctors, and engineers doing just enough to get by everyday.

Anyway. Point of the post was and is. Having cancer and doing something legal in the state of Ohio and losing your right to own your grandfathers shotgun and your ability to hunt is BS. I guess there is no way around it until the Fed removes weed from being a schedule 1 narcotic. Seems like they just can't do that though b/c it probably frees criminals they would have to admit were unjustly prosecuted. What a freaking mess.

Just say No

Yeah remember that was a whole Nancy Regan thing... they campaigned throughout the country in schools telling everyone drugs, including pot, were bad. Not legalizing it and giving the perception it was ok.

Not that it was a great program or anything. That was the same time frame there was billions of dollars of coke flying into Miami via small planes that the govt didn't know about and couldn't catch.

Kinda depends on your point of view of how successful it was. lol.

Hobbie,

Am I correct in assuming that now you're just a drunk? Nothing illegal about that.

You do get that the “Just say no” campaign was aimed at demand and not supply?

I may have a glass of wine with steak on our anniversary, other than I don’t drink alcohol.

Just Say No itself was but it was all part of the overall War on Drugs the Regans had going at which time they were making the coke flights fairly freely at will was my point.

It would have worked except you specifically named Nancy. Perhaps you should have just went with “The Reagan Administration.”

Less drugs.Now if the low life layers who stop getting druggies off and the dumb judges would actually hand out sentences instead of the slaps on the hands and reduced sentences we could actually win.

Demand is too high

Get rid of the drugs.Anyone caught selling drugs 50 years in prison.No its ands or buts.End of problem.

It Will never end... too many people tasted the poison.

Money Changes everything.

Need strong judges that will do something for sentences and have strong sentences and it will work.

Paid off

Then this country is toast.

Without a Re set , yes

I wonder what the stats would say about the effectiveness of harsher penalties. China might be an interesting study. I believe you're facing a death penalty on conviction for drug trafficking in China. And I doubt it's kangaroo court there like our N. American system of justice can tend to be.

Until alcohol is made illegal those who oppose the recreational use of weed don't have a leg to stand on. Anybody with half a brain should be able to understand that. At least I do.

Hows that lack of police and prosecution treating places like Seattle, Portland and Minneapolis? Scum filled liberal driven into the ground cities. Are you ok then when one of the junkies you want out in the street breaks into your house and steals your guns? The cops wont respond or investigate because you want them “defunded”.

If Weed Is Medicine, So Is Budweiser
Legalize marijuana, but don’t pretend it’s therapeutic.
By Peter B. Bach
Jan. 17, 2019 7:23 pm ET



Ten states and the District of Columbia have legalized recreational marijuana use, and another eight look likely to do so in 2019. I favor the move but am troubled by the gateway to it: All these jurisdictions first passed laws permitting the use of “medical” marijuana. We should set the record straight, lest young people (and old ones) think marijuana is good for you because it is wrongly labeled a medication.

Actual medicines have research behind them, enumerating their benefits, characterizing their harms, and ensuring the former supersedes the latter. Marijuana doesn’t. It’s a toxin, not a medicine. It impairs judgment and driving ability. It increases the risk of psychosis and schizophrenia. Smoking it damages the respiratory tract. A 2017 report from the National Academy of Medicine called the evidence for these harms “substantial.”

Claims that marijuana relieves pain may be true. But the clinical studies that have been done compare it with a placebo, not even a pain reliever like ibuprofen. That’s not the type of rigorous evaluation we pursue for medications. What’s more, every intoxicant would pass that sort of test because you don’t experience pain as acutely when you are high. If weed is a pain reliever, so is Budweiser.

Some advocates say marijuana is better than opiates for pain. Yet while opiates have risks, there are no studies comparing them to marijuana, and untested claims in medicine don’t get the benefit of the doubt. Testing such a hypothesis often disproves it.


Decades ago, several studies suggested that marijuana might relieve nausea in chemotherapy patients. But again most compared it with a placebo, while a few compared it with older nausea treatments not used today. None were very convincing. More important, no study has compared marijuana to today’s Neurokinin-1 antagonists. While such treatments are sometimes ineffective, that shortcoming doesn’t impart efficacy on marijuana either.

In writing medical-marijuana laws, state lawmakers and initiative authors have gone well beyond pain and nausea control, lauding the plant as an effective treatment for a long list of conditions, including hepatitis, Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s. Beyond the lack of data, what these conditions have in common isn’t biology, but modern medicine’s failure to treat them satisfactorily. Heartbreaking as that is, marijuana isn’t the answer.

Advocates like to note that cannabidiol, an extract of the plant, is an approved medication for epilepsy. But medicine from a plant does not make the plant medicine. Google “foxglove,” the plant from which the cardiac drug digitalis is derived. First hits show its pretty flower, but soon you get the number for poison control.

Marijuana belongs in the same category as alcohol and tobacco—harmful products that adults can choose to enjoy. The liquor company Constellation Brands and tobacco conglomerate Altria Group agree. Both have recently acquired large stakes in marijuana producers.

Decades passed before we took on smoking and drinking with education, labeling and other forms of regulation. But it worked, and deaths from lung cancer, heart disease and alcohol-associated accidents are in sharp decline. We need this same approach with marijuana. Acknowledging that it is not a medicine is a necessary first step.

Dr. Bach is a pulmonary physician at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York. He directs the Center for Health Policy and Outcomes.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/if-weed-is-medicine-so-is-budweiser-11547770981

People will believe what they want to believe

And what stood in the way of testing. Could it be that it could have been grown by the end user with no profit to the drug companies.

List of states that allow growing Pot for personal use

There you go.

That'd be a good way to get rid of murders too. Wonder why prisons are 150% capacity..

Build a wall around California and throw them all over the wall.

Are you planning on doing your own testing? It's still federally illegal.

I’ve done all the testing I needed to do.

If you make pot illegal, you have to make alcohol illegal. Alcohol is responsible for more deaths in one day in the USA than has ever been attributed to weed. Alcohol is addictive, causes people to behave erratically, impairs motor function. Full disclosure, I’ve done both, and guess which one nearly ruined my life? Yup, alcohol. Gues which one I was addicted to? Alcohol again.

Might as well make smoking cigarettes illegal as well.

Right but the majority of supporters see pot as a natural alternative to lab created medicine and eatables not smoking as a healthier alternative if they have success with it.

i.e. treat pain with Oxy or a pot gummy.
i.e. treat sleep deprivation with Ambien or a pot gummy.
i.e. treat depression with Prozac or a pot gummy.
i.e. treat cancer pain and eating issues with big pharma or a pot gummy.

I think I am pro "Marijuana belongs in the same category as alcohol and tobacco" and that seems it would resolve the 2nd A problems also.

Its Mother Earth Man!!!!

Lol....All I can think of is Cheech & Chong

So is cyanide.