Thermal

Well, we ended up getting dumped on. 12-14 inches of snow. We’ve had off and on snow/ice since. My hopes of being able to get around for more cats has been kind of dashed. I decided to enter the world of thermals with the coyotes/cats I took this year.

I am just getting my feet wet and just picked up the ATN Thor 4x8. I’ve been kicking myself for not doing it sooner. I only got out for an hour last night before the wind/rain started again but it’s a different world. I was watching rabbits in waterways from over 100 yards. Watched a raccoon and skunk race for the jackrabbit squall. It’s crazy.


I’ve learned very quickly you can put as much into it as you’d like. I don’t have all the bells and whistles but I’ve been impressed with what I have so far. With the snow cover I’m easily picking up heat signatures out around 500-600 yards. By 100 yards I could identify most everything and haven’t seen anything larger than a raccoon yet.

I did a one shot zero two days ago. I used HVAC tape in the sunlight and it made a perfect target. Took one shot, did the zero and shot four more times. At 50 yards I only had one outlier and I’m certain it was me moving. The other three almost punched through the same hole. Those ballistics put me at about 1.5 high at 100 and dead on at 200. I shouldn’t need to shoot past that. Waiting for it to get dark tonight we just got another skiff of snow. I’m going to go chase some lonely coyotes tonight.

Suggest you use a much smaller bullseye - like an "X" drawn with a Sharpie pen. No circle. Will give you a better idea of your gun's accuracy, and your shooting ability. Hard to center your crosshairs on a large bullseye. I think you are dead on however.

I have never shot through a thermal scope. Is it like a regular scope or does the object you want to shoot need to be hotter than the surrounding area? Might not be able to see a Sharpie marker.

It’s a thermal scope Charles you can’t “use a sharpie.” That’s about a 1x1 inch square. With the foil tape in the sun it illuminates and you center the crosshairs inside the “cold” square when looking through the thermal.

I think most guys using a traditional scope would be hard pressed to get that group after one shot and adjustments.

You can't see a sharpie pen X with a thermal scope. I also have an ATN Thor, so I know the challenge of creating a good target. Thats a great target and good shooting.

-NC

You are not able to see an X with a thermal scope, only a heat change. I like to fold up one of those hand heat packs that you shake after you take it out of the foil pouch and tape it to a box or cardboard. Works anytime without the sun.

I understand now. Not meant to be critical. Good shooting.

A buddy of mine uses those Hot Hands taped to a board at night. He tapes it on both sides where he only has about an inch or so to actually aim at. Personally I would’ve never thought of that, but it works for him.

I picked up some outdated heal warmers (same thing) at work we use on newborns needing blood out of their heals. They throw them away otherwise. I plan to use those to check my zero from time to time I think it’ll work great!

It’s definitely a new world when you can see everything out there and they think they’re hidden. I’ve never been much of a caller but I think this will change that. It’s a little bit of an adrenaline rush. I plan to get a few stands in tonight. I know there’s still some coyotes that need thinned.

At some point I’d like to pick up a monocular scanner. Hopefully by next season. Just getting my feet wet now.

Yes, it's a pain to scan and look around with the gun.

Please keep the updates coming. I have been looking at thermals also and I'm interested in hearing first hand accounts of their use. Anyone with monocular experience would be great to hear from. Like to know about durability, how far they are useful for identifying targets, and review of different brands.

yes^

I have a pair of night vision goggles to watch with and I have a 3X power magnifier I can add to it. More expensive than thermal but I can see detail with it. Thermal can see through brush because you only see the animals heat signature, night vision sees the brush like you would with your eyes.
With a 6X night vision scope you can see the bean pods on a soybean stalk at a hundred yards, with thermal you would see an animal but no beans. It's kind of hard to get used to after years of seeing everything through a scope. The cheaper night vision is way more dependent on Infrared illumination because they can't gather enough ambient light.
Thermals are kind of like a video camera and most can record and save your shots. It is also easy to electronically adjust your zero and save the zero for multiple guns and calibers. I put mine on a suppressed .22 and shot rats at 25 feet in a barn last summer and then replayed the shots for friends. No light so the rats don't have a clue, lots of fun.

Duckie, I have been researching the monocular. I’m not too worried about identification with it I just want to know something is running at me then switch to guns. I’ve been looking hard at the AGM Asp-micro TM160. Most reviews say it’s picking up heat at 400 yards and out. Identification within 1-200 yards. It’s equivalent from what I’ve gathered to the Flir Scout. Also about $200 cheaper.

What I’ve learned so far is for identification you’ll want to go up. I’m not too worried about it like I said if it’s running at a coyote vocal or distress I want to kill it. One thing I noticed right away was depth perception. I picked up the raccoon at about 200 yards when he came over the hill. I zoomed and thought I was shooting him around 100 yards. When I walked up to him I was closer to 50 yards when I put him down. I could fully make out his rings on his tail as he quartered in. I thought that was pretty good considering I am at the entry level on thermal. The skunk was also easily identified.

I watched a rabbit sit in a waterway at 100 yards and could make out his ears. Good enough for me. I’m still playing between white and black hot. Can’t decide which I prefer.

Wade, that is what is tough with the thermal, depth perception because you can't see a background. I have mine on white hot and this is what rats in a barn wall look like for you guys that have not seen the view through a thermal. Notice the warm blood flying out! Ha Ha

Wade, I still haven't had an opportunity to do anything with mine! I'm gonna be real interested on how your hunt goes.

Flipper I’ve watched that before one of the vids that made me go out and get one. Solid work lol.

J. I’m just getting supper done with the kids and I’ll probably head out. I just called close to home last night. I plan to get into some coyote territory tonight. Hoping for about 5 stands.

Wade, don't skimp on a monocular, you won't be happy with those cheap ones.

I've only had a thermal for this season and I've been using my buddies Axion XM30S monocular.

The monocular is crazy good. Recognition is several hundred yards, deer at half mile.
Knowing what I know now, if money is a concern I'd recommend to people to skimp some on the scope and buy a high quality monocular.

I skimped some on the scope because I'm cheap, this summer I'll buy a quality monocular and if finances allow for more I'll sell my scope and upgrade.

What resolution Thor did you get? 384 or 640?

I got the 384 knowing I'd most likely not be happy and I'm right lol. Not because it isn't okay the 640 is worth the extra cash.

Daggum it Wade I didn't end up going that way this last fall b/c of all the hurricanes but if I had I was thinkin of leaving you some blowin snow gear. Right now when the cats are prime and the big Tom's are roaming a snow storm is great news to a cat trapper.

Coils and buried traps freeze down easily but a DLS with a big pan set exposed will fire in almost any condition. If you can cross crocks on the ice great but if not the sows are and the toms are following. It is basically a fish out of a barrel circumstance if you are tooled up.

Good luck to ya. I know your a good hand but us old guys know tricks LOL

^^^^^this

There is a big difference, mine is the 640 and I have looked through a friends 384.

To zero we have been using a self tapping screw ran into a plywood backstop and hitting it quick with a torch. The head of the screw retains the heat well and you get a much finer point to aim at. A longer screw let’s you heat the head without transferring heat to the paper or backstop

Lefty, I think my age is showing. I’ve just got no desire to go stomp through snow anymore. No doubt they’re running and I’d be running exposed if I did. I’m just enjoying my warm truck from A-B. I’m also back to working near 60 hours a week. Add on a couple hours a day running traps and I feel tired.

Forgive me for the long post but I enjoyed my first night out. Third stand I set up on a timber with the wind in my face. I figured I had a half a mile before contact. I was sitting on the west side of a hedgerow with the caller out in front of me about 50 yards farther west. We had a weird straight wind out of the west at 5-7 mph.

I scanned the entire 360 no animals in sight. I opened with one lone male howl and then two minutes of female yodel. I shut down the call and scanned. I panned in front of me and then down the hedgerow. I couldn’t believe it with no cover other than the hedgerow for about a mile I had five coyotes working the east side of the hedgerow to me (couldn’t get a shot through it) they were about 150 yards out.

I switched over to lightning jack hoping to bring them over into the open where I could get a shot. The lead coyote came head over heals right down the hedge and winded me at about 50 yards. Rather then educate them with a questionable shot through the brush I watched them run off. Man what a deal. I could easily identify them. The scope did its job. I just failed and really didn’t expect those coyotes to appear out of nothing.

A few things I found on my first run. After waiting a couple minutes after I’d do the female yodel I’d get quite a few responses. Issue was they were never where I anticipated them and the wind was rarely in my favor if they came in. I’m thinking I might just do a siren locate before I make stands in the future. I could have been right on top of most of them as I have access to a lot of ground down there. I did have one stand where I had two pairs answering from two different directions (wind in my favor) they never did break the open field.

I was amazed how many angry raccoons will come running to not only the distress sounds but the coyote vocals. I had one raccoon I could hear chattering a 1/4 mile out before it came to investigate. I didn’t shoot any but I watched a number of raccoons and possums work the call.

I definitely will have a vice/tripod by next year. I’ve been looking at the Bog. I consider myself to be in pretty good shape and after holding that gun up for 20-30 minutes a stand my arms were fatigued. Figure it will give me a very steady rest as well. I’m sure guys will say they can hold one up for hours but I feel like without a rest after holding it up for a while my shots could have been sub-par.

The monocular for scanning is definitely a must. Steven I’m curious is there a reason you want more recognition? I’m sure you have a reason. I watched deer walk out into the fields last night at 3-400 yards and could easily tell what they were. By 50 yards I could see enough definition to tell a raccoon from a possum. I figure with the monocular I just want to know something is coming not necessarily caring what it is till it’s within a couple hundred yards. Definitely telling how animals move and what they are I’m finding out.

All in all I feel like the thermal has been a good investment. If you’re expecting to see their eyeballs as you squeeze the trigger you’re going to be disappointed in a low grade model. I knew that going into it and I’ve been very happy with the scopes performance. I just need to learn to call. Other than raccoons in my younger years I’m really new to calling. I can’t imagine the carnage I could have created if thermals existed when raccoons were $20 a hide.

I went into it knowing I didn’t have a $3-9k dollar scope and I think that’s the key. As long as you realize it’s not going to be perfection the entry level ATN’s seem to do everything I wanted. It’s a heck of a rush when something appears out of nowhere. I’ll be honest when I had five coyotes milling towards me it was quite the feeling they didn’t have a clue I was there until the ol wind got me.

I have the AGM25 monocular it was 1600.00 thought that was a lot till I looked at scopes the one I have is great at a distance in open field but I the brush it only good to about 50 to 100 feet.

Great stuff guys, keep it coming.

On the monocular side I was looking for something with longer identification range, say +500 yards with a decent sized field of view to use for scanning while calling, scouting, and checking traps in the dark from a distance.

Guys with thermal experience which would you purchase first a monocular or a scope?

My thought is a monocular is first because it is more versatile and can perform several functions and I can still use a light and regular scope at the point of taking a predator while night hunting. If I went with a scope first I would be more limited in my usage until I also had a monocular.

What are the best monoculars available in the $2000 range?

Does anyone know the life expectancy of a thermal monocular/scope? Seems like regular night vision equipment is about 5 or so years.

Hate to break it to you, if he winded you.........you educated them.

I suppose I did Boone, I’m not much of a caller. It sure is fun though. He definitely winded me stopped on a dime and was gone with his friends in tow. Was still quite a time and sight to see. There’s definitely a learning curve.

Duckie look at that one that Steven mentioned earlier. It’s in your price range and exceeds your distance.

I do a lot of scanning wade even when the caller isn't running. I've looked through the sub $1000 monocular and the 2200 plus ones. Personally I don't think you'll be happy with unit you are looking at. I know I wasn't. Recognition at a hundred to 200 yards and the game could be over unless you are in tight quarters.

I spent 2200 on my scope, I'm seriously kicking myself for not going into the 640 resolution around the $4000 price point. I managed to borrow my buddies Pulsar monocular for as he's unable to hunt for awhile. That may change my mind about my scope.

Fair enough Steven I’m definitely looking at the one you mentioned using. What’s another couple thousand right? The sky is definitely the limit on how crazy a guy could go and I’m pretty much enjoying how easy it is to just pack up the truck and go. A lot less labor intensive compared to trapping.

We’re supposed to be as low as -6 without the wind the next week and I’m still anticipating when I can get back out. We can kill coyotes year around here and I think I can justify something I can use 365.

There is a huge learning curve, especially on how you set up.

Control of the ground is important in daylight but it is of the UTMOST importance at night. Especially if your calling.

You need to see them early, and be able to keep eyes on them.

With the limited FOV of these units, they drop into a little depression, get in some heavy cover, and you loose them. Meanwhile they’re moving around getting your wind while you scan scan scan trying to pick them back up.

I FIRMLY believe most guys have no clue how many coyotes they’re educating with these things when they’re “running and gunning”. They can come so hard and fast at night, throw in a poor setup, and with the severe limitations of the whole thing from a target acquisition standpoint, they just never see them. That’s why I don’t like calling with one. Much prefer to sit on a bait or kill with it.

I think we’re gonna see the whole “Foxpro phenomenon” happen all over again.

I definitely was amazed at how fast they covered the mile. I highly doubt thermals are going to make that big of an impact in general. They aren't something the majority of people can just walk out and grab one although they are becoming more economical. Good news for you is I'm a long way from Montana and it's very enjoyable to do something new. I'll probably educate some coyotes in the process but it's a hoot. I'm not a professional so it's not really of concern to me.

Yup

Sounds good, here it's more open, but ya if you blow it, or don't know they winded you , they got more cautious

Any hunt updates??

From folks with the high dollar thermals, they say spend the money on a monocular and go with NV for the gun. They can scout from a distance then sneak in to call.
Also the BOG DeathGrip is a real good tripod. Bought one for the 6yr old to use on deer.

Duckie, I've been out one more time since the first real night of calling. It's just miserable here right now. The last night I went out was about -7 without the wind by midnight. Had a few groups answer the female yodel but no movement in range and they were way out. I went with a guy that's been calling all year in our area. The scope worked well down to those temperatures without a glitch. It was our first real night of bitter cold and not a whole lot of anything was moving. Everything was bunkered down.

I did have a red tail hawk come into the rabbit one night and at 50 yards I could tell what he was as soon as his wings opened up. He definitely didn't look "right" compared to what I'd seen in the scope so far. We are looking at -13 to -18 nights here this weekend but I'm already working. If I can get a night closer to zero I might go give it another run. He showed me some of the things that have helped him. He's shot a number of coyotes, bobcats, and a few fox this winter with his. His favorite place to call is abandoned rail road tracks. He just calls with the wind and sets up in an opening. He said he's had up to three coyotes and one cat off one stand barreling down the tracks to him. The cat was last and he missed it.

I was also perplexed as I followed him. I've been walking into locations as I've still got the stealth mode attached to me as if I was calling during the day. He just drives his truck right out into the middle of the sections depending on wind direction and sets up 20 yards from his truck. He doesn't wait as long to start calling as I'd anticipated either. Literally calling as soon as he had the call out on the ground. I'm sure he's missing some coyotes that way but he's been enjoying himself this winter and has a couple of deep freezers of fur he wanted me to sell for him so.....it's had to have worked enough to keep him happy. He is a state trooper and does have a suppressor which I'm assuming helps with the multiple coyotes at a time.

They are more expensive but seriously look at scanners with laser rangefinder in them. One of the biggest challenges at night is judging distance, and many times when you call in multiple coyotes it’s easy to shoot the first one at under 100 yards then the others will scatter but not nearly like they do in daylight, have many coyotes stop at 3-400 yards and bark at me. If you don’t know exact distance it’s hard to make that shot.

Wade you'll find out this night hunting is a rabbit hole and can get really expensive. A suppressor isn't necessary but I'm glad I have mine. Second shots and not waking up the neighbors is nice.

As far as the conditions you are calling in, it's cold to you but almost normal here, your gear will handle it no problem. Once it gets below -20 I generally shut it down, not because the equipment wont handle it but because I'm getting older and lazy lol.

Tray, I noticed that the first night as I watched a raccoon come across the field depth perception was definitely off. With the .223 and 55g ammo I am shooting I am looking at a kill shot without much hesitation out to 200 yards. After that I'd probably have to do some adjustments. I am in Nebraska but it's not quite like the sandhills where I am. For the most part 200 yards is plenty...we have a lot of rolling creeks and timbers in my area. There's some places where you can see for miles but not many.

Steven I've got family up in Minnesota and they'd probably be sitting on the porch drinking a beer with our weather we are having now. We only have about two weeks of this type of weather here a year. We stay colder than a lot of places but we don't hit sub-zero all that often. Heck they're talking about calling off school the first two days of next week. I was excited to be out calling and I was dressed to do it. I actually didn't feel all that bad. The guy I was with finally looked at me and 0030 and told me his truck was reading -7 and he wasn't cut out for it anymore. I think I could have kept going for quite a while. Nothing seemed to be on the move at all though. Minus the hawk I couldn't find anything. The nights prior I'd seen plenty of animal movement even non-targets.

I'm not real worried about a suppressor. I thought about starting the paperwork as they are telling me 8-9 months but I have a guy I work with that's an old NRA instructor that builds his own. The paperwork takes less than a month that route. If I do go for one I will probably have him drill me one. I don't have any desire to kill all the coyotes. I'm just enjoying what I've done so far. I'm sure it would be nice to have one but there's other guns/combos/thermals/ etc. etc. I'd like to get going on first.

I can see that it will get expensive in the long run and I am okay with that. I mean people pay 1000's of dollars to go shoot an animal over a barrel of corn so there has to be worse things out there. I can for the first time in close to 20 years say that I've thought about something more than trapping this coming fall. I honestly have my traps I pulled in December still piled in totes and haven't gave them two looks. I was watching a video the other night where they set up a dead pit in South Dakota and took coyotes often with up to 4 out of 8 one night. They put out some round bales to get closer to them un-detected. I've got a feedlot with some old round bales that might be of use after all. It appears the sky's the limit of what you can get yourself into.

Wade, I'm seriously considering building my next suppressor.

I ordered mine last year from SilencerCentral in late January, got it around the first week in October

Here when it's minus 7 the kids wear shorts to school lol.

Wade here is an image from phone app from Pulsar axion monocular. Furthest treeline is well over a quarter mile away. The image is a lot clearer than it looks, hard to hold steady when it's 30 below lol. No problem picking up coyotes at that range and easily identifiable as a canine.

Finally had some success. We were down to -30 to 40 ish wind chill yesterday morning. It warmed up to about zero yesterday.. I went out last night when I woke up at 2 am wide awake. No wind and that perfect crisp cold. It was about -8 most of the time I was out. I did have one stand where I had a coyote hold up at about 200 yards in some timber. I think the monocular would have shined. It came in but I couldn’t keep up with the sporadic movements with the gun/scope.

I was able to call in two pairs. With one lone howl followed by 3 minutes of female yodel. I never made it to the 3 minute mark either time. Generally I pause for a couple minutes then switch to distress but with the yodel both pairs came as hard as they could run to me.

Definitely a game changer at night they seem to have little to no fear if they haven’t been pressured. I’m not much for follow up shots but I did put a male out of one pair and a female out of another down. They came in hot and left just as hot when I lit the first ones up. First shot was right at 100 and the second was even closer around 50 I had to squeak to get them to slow down. About ran me over. The .223 did it’s job both times. Little to no recovery.

I’m definitely learning to pick my locations at night for where I’m setting up. The bold ones will run right at you but the weary ones are still trying to get down wind of you any chance they get. I’ve picked up some coyotes scanning the cover leading down wind of the caller that could have been picked off if set up correctly.

Steven the Pulsar monocular is on my list for preseason next year. Definitely will make my life a lot easier. My buddy is waiting on his binoculars to come in. He got the Pulsar Accolade in the $5-6k range. He’s a US Marshall. He got them for “work” but intends to use them a lot more for killing varmints from what I understand.