Do you think many antis work for state DNRs?

I can only speak for Wi. My thought has always been 'no.' I still would like to think that.

The other day somebody posted a general comment to everyone on a wolf thread on here, saying "do not kid yourself, there are antis infiltrated in the DNR."

As I'm preparing for Wolf trapping, I've had some time to think about things (keep in mind I am surprised at WDNR for suing to try to stop next weeks wolf hunt). It occurred to me that maybe there is more truth to it than I thought. This was compounded this week because the other day a lady told me her daughter is going to UW-SP (a famous [& good] natural resource college). The girl is anti. The last thing we need is antis infiltrating DNRs. We need them to operate objectively on science. They have a right to their opinions like the rest of us at Conservation Congress. I think part of the problem is our DNR is too political. I've discussed the wolf hunt this week with several DNR biologists. They all said what I thought: the decision to sue was made WAY above their head. It seemed almost like the biologists were operating under a gag order. It must be frustrating for the vast majority of dedicated DNR professionals.

I can't speak for other DNR's, but ours has explaining to do after the issue this week with the wolf hunt.

I know so many great DNR employees. I hope citizens are able to regain DNR's trust after this week

ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

Maybe not necessarily antis, but definitely some "concerned conservationists".

Yes

Don’t know about anti’s, but the Pennsylvania Game Commission has hired people that never hunted or trapped as Game Wardens. Originally, you wouldn’t even get an interview without showing your hunting and trapping license.

are you kidding in Madistan there have been a few mostly anyone with good science realizes better

My father passed in 1987. He worked fire control and assisted in parks for WDNR. He said then that antis were already infiltrating the WDNR or going to school to do so. That was long ago, do the math!

All you have to do is look at California's Game and fish dept. And a lot of states are in a race to model California in every step of govt.

I would have called our last Fur bearer biologist partially anti when It came to trapping. He did his best to protect the otter and muskrats. Actually he was no friend of the trapper. The man we got on board know Is a straight shooter.

Yes in Ohio. We would already have a bobcat season.

DNRs have been pulling people out of the concrete jungle for the last 50 years and I regret I know some of them.

The simple answer is yes, the more complex is antis, government employees, and political hacks is why most of out DNRs are ate the up.

The people that say that you need to follow the science today are not doing it themselves is the problem, feeling overriding the facts today people that have never been told no or they were ever wrong.

Illinois is infested with them. The head of ours is an anti. And yes our Gov. knew it when he appointed her.

There are some great CPO's here, but once past them it is all down hill.

When I was hired 25 years ago there were 2200 applicants for 17 game warden positions. I sat on the hiring interview board a year ago and there were only 350 applicants for 15 positions.

There are way less folks today that have any outdoor knowledge and the anti-LE mentality in this country has also resulted in less applicants.

I dont know of any anti-hunting game wardens, but there are some wildlife biologists employed by Ga that make me shake my head. I call them butterfly biologists.

I worked for the state of Michigan for two loooonngggggg years outta college and I would have paid to work with antis versus those - I tried to get to work - alongside.

"Did that come out all right?"

at the top of the DNR...absolutely.....wardens I have dealt with no

A guy I grew up with trapping, hunting ,and fishing went to Michigan State to become a fisheries biologist.After he graduated some years later he went back to see if any of his old professors were still around.One was left and ready to retire.His prof said he could see a big difference from the students he used to get to the ones he got in his final years.He said at one time the only people that applied had backgrounds in hunting and fishing,now he had kids who never been hunting and fishing in their lives,it was more about being a civil servant and the pay and benefits that went with it.And while they may not have been flaming antis,many had a dim view of our pursuits.

I agree. In my opinion, our dnr has some antis within it, and is very political. I think we have more uneducated people more then anything. I got stopped by an officer once while beaver trapping. They had absolutely no clue what I was doing when I walked back to my car with a beaver on my sled. They asked me a ton of questions, and I spent the next 10 minutes explaining to them how beaver trapping worked. They acted as if they had never heard of such a thing. They didn’t even check half of my paperwork. I was shocked to say the least. Some kids I know wanting to go into the dnr genuinely scare me. They are extremely biased, uneducated ,anti hunting and trapping, etc. They seem forget that outdoorsmen and women are the ones funding them.

THIS!

We live in a liberal societal age and have our entire lives. It's just picking up speed as more societal causes jump aboard the "save me" list. Conservation for the ecosystem and habitat including animal species has now been leagued with human society needs; perceived or real, depending on your liberal ecological view.

The battle rages in the outdoors as it does in our schools, politics, churches, and homes. Liberalism is a "progression" of ideas and who can imagine where the progression ends? Are we surprised each week now as ideas that used to take year to percolate surface? Progressive liberalism is moving faster and faster in all the areas I mentioned and we can guard our homes and our families against it, and should, unless of course as most do now.... you think it not such a bad idea to make everything "fair" and "equitable" as we head towards utopian principles.

We taste the progression. The topics are here in TMan daily.
Fight the good fight and bend a knee in prayer.
Sounds too simple because it is.

Blessings,
Mark

Thats interesting because he spent a lot of time trying to expose wildlife management folks to trapping through his fur school. I think it was beneficial in winning over those on the fence and helped create allies.

His biggest issue on otter was listening to science and unfortunately his science folks got stuck in a pretty bad paradigm. Once a new person had the science back on track, he didn't fight reversing course. Takes a big person to admit mistakes.

That's said, our biggest problem is the administration ties the hands of the folks that do the work. It wasn't Shawn that refused to be ready for a wolf season. That direction came down from above.

X2!!

Pretty sure one of them is in charge of Chickasaw, lol. Not Brian, the overall biologist over all of our area, just the lady at Chickasaw. She decided to burn the dove fields in late July or early August. They would have made a serious green field for Canada’s. Brian asked her a week before the dove opener how many birds she had seen and she was all happy and said a dozen or so.
Thankfully I didn’t put in for that hunt! We got the Albany Nursery hunt and walked off the field at 1630 with 3 limits of dove.

Too many politicians in the DNR, many of whom are antis or people with no outdoor experience that are easily influenced by antis.

We have appointed commissioners most are on the ball some are clueless. We had a anti trapper but all in for bird hunters one but the others kept him in line for the most part.

Interesting article: www.edf.org › people › eric-schwaab

. . . and as Forrest Gump said "and that's all i have to say about that".

As I mentioned above, these ^^^^^ topics are now front and center and will be for the foreseeable future. Their momentum is impressive, because they are a coalition of people that do not bend and will not quit, and agree to not stab each other on their way to the end zone.

I remember years ago, in a good debate with a progressive in MI who was on the game commission and his comment to me was something like, "Who do you support?" and I answered, "Excuse me? Are we talking about the partridge (it was ruffed grouse laws in debate) or something else?" He laughed and said, "You must be new here (I was). We don't manage for the species. They survive just fine. We manage the money. Who do you support?"

I never forget that conversation in 1982. He was a typical top level bureaucrat - in charge and he knew it.

That said, there are MANY dedicated biologists trying their best to make great decisions based on wildlife and habitat. Trouble is, they answer to people that sign their paycheck and it's not the taxpayers (as it should be).
Hug the good ones!

Blessings,
Mark

Half the game wardens I see around are dressed like swat officers. They sure have the big boy mentality. Makes them a pleasure to deal with. They always seem to jump out of the bushes ten at a time to catch you doing something wrong, but when you got poachers shooting deer in your fields, there no where to be found. Another government bureaucracy that needs thinned. I haven’t seen a grouse around here in 20 years but the state don’t care. As long as they get all the non resident hunters to buy the permits and license. There happy

I'll stand by my assessment. And sometimes the administration doesn't get the real facts. The reason why we can't use guides or place Colony traps In culverts Is because we might catch to many turtles. You really think that that came from some know It all administrator. And If It did don't you think a biologist could have explained the facts.

And If It wasn't for the WTA there wouldn't have been any Fur School.

Amen Mark -- I thought alot of our ODFW people until about 5-6 years ago. I don't know when the switch was thrown but there seems to be more "educated idiots" than good legitimate biologists. I have had good luck with our OSP who are our game wardens -- to bad that is only a small part of their job. Even that is changing with their primary function being to protect our gov. (new york native). The unit that I "try" to hunt in used to have an OSP presence but have not even seen one in the last 2 times I have hunted that unit. We used to get a visit from them every time checking tags and successes. Of course we used to get tags every or at least every other year. The last time I tried to talk to anyone that knew anything at ODFW was about eagle predation and how I can prevent it. I was informed that " there has been no documented proof that eagles kill lambs in Oregon" end of discussion. I used to be proud of this state because if you look at the surrounding ones we still had the best trapping and hunting regs and good common sense people running the show -- that has come to an end. I guess that I was born about 50-75 years too late. It is time to leave.

No doubt they do.

Not to mention they recently raised the prices on our resident licenses and tags. Seems to me like they are making money any way they can, and won’t put it to good use for us sportsmen. Heck, they charged us 3 dollars a spot to apply in the beaver/ otter lottery this year, and of the zone they gave me, half of it was actually private land.

Have you written their boss’s to let THEM know bout their staff?
We usually rally a few dozen folks to write the higher ups. Then it’s often looked into. Just saying.

Everything you're reading in this thread is going to get worse over the coming years.

Agency priorities and direction changing. Lack of qualified applicants. Current staff that should not have been hired.

Im retiring in 16 months.

I'll then be a full time trapper, whitetail deer pursuer, and a part-time river bank fisherman.

Same in NY, especially in the fisheries dept.
I'm contemplating getting bumper stickers... "DEFUND THE DEC"...

Libturds have held the majority in WI DNR since the 1990s. Not just management either. Some of y'all are late to the party.
Look at the policies and public statements with an analytical eye. Been quite obviously libtard for decades.

Had a heated discussion with a state wildlife biologist who was doing a Bald Eagle presentation at an outdoor show a couple years back. She was maybe 22? and she kept repeating that eagles are strictly fish eaters. Challenges came from folks in the crowd and she became very condescending in her replies and stuck to her guns that the raptor ONLY eats fish. I was searching through my album on my phone the whole time until I found the series of pics that I took of a pair of mature bald eagles feeding on a deer carcass. They fed on it for a few days in fact. Her reply? “That is certainly nothing more than an anomaly.” I’m convinced this young thing has a future in politics.

The antis and gun grabbers are playing a long game of chess. A pawn infiltrates here and a rook is appointed there.

Our side plays checkers at best. Sadly.

With buzzards gone for the winter, it was eagles cleaning up my coon carcass's this winter. Normally has to age about 2 weeks before they are intereste

Can't speak for the wardens of MDC, most I've met are good........but my concern lies with US Fish and Wildlife. Used to think that was a good agency being leaned on by whackadoodles.......until I had a conversation with one......and realized the whackadoodles were on the inside and running things.

Without a doubt their in there. We fought them when trying to get a Fur harvesters license established back in 1985.

Too many opinions with out knowledge of which they speak. And the DNR of Michigan continues to employ them as their basis for knowledge.

One who recently left as Director of the Michigan DNR, went to Michigan State University as an appointed professor. There to ram his theory down young peoples brain.

Appointed by our wonderful governor Gretchen Whitman (D). Who thinks that all restaurant businesses can open at 25% and do well.

Absolutely. While there are some dedicated conservationists in New York's Department, it is also loaded with antis. Many of them being turned out of colleges by ultra liberal professors that could not hold a real job. I worked for our department for nine years and saw first hand for myself. Everything is controlled by our dictator Governor and department employees are always making decisions to protect their jobs. In many instances your political affiliation determines wheter you get the job.

I say yes.
There's been valid concern with NM's game commissioner which was appointed by the governor. Several Hunting lands have been closed with no prior notice.
There's a push with bills to completely overhaul G&F including changing its name. There's plenty of anti proposals being snuck into other bills too. One example is to make catching or possessing ANY wildlife illegal without a license/permit. That includes bugs, shed antlers, snails, mice etc... honestly there's so much anti bills this year I can't keep up.

I am sure there are! A great deal of the DNR employees do not hunt, fish, or trap. You see what happened in TX. I am sure most of the people that spend a lot of time outdoors could have handled themselves better. IMO

Well, let's see; many years ago I took some cat skins to get tagged in Washington State. I met an enforcement agent at a local state-run fish hatchery, she tagged them there.
She opened the conversation with the statement "I don't think trapping bobcats should be allowed".
An Anti? Obviously.
I did reminded her that I paid her salary; it was a rather cold encounter. And they wonder why we don't trust their agencies. They really aren't that bright.

Yep -without a doubt.

There is a cool little school in SW MO with a wildlife program that is going to send some outstanding new professionals into the field....

Many of the DNR class "instructors" are not qualified themselves with real experience(s) other than what they learned from a book.

And a lot of other fields as well.

Absolutely , here in NY. Does anyone think that people that go into these fields of work are not indoctrinated in college like everyone else ?

That's funny,because the same thing happened to me over a allegedly "eagle expert" that worked for the feds.When I told her I watched them feed on fox,coyote,and beaver carcasses in back of my house she as much called me a liar.When I told her then there's a whole lot of liars in our area because other people driving down our road watched them too.Then she said something was wrong with them.

U can’t get “woods wise” out of a book unless a trapper wrote it lol

No I did not. I had the local Sheriff take care of it. He caught them and punished accordingly.

An elderly landowner in the next county over a few years ago had a beaver problem. They plugged up the creek, built a lodge on the bank and water was backing up in the pasture fields. They call the local game warden in hopes he would do something. He pulls in looks over and tells them to shoot them and hops in his truck and leaves. I feel he could of at least took the time to put them in contact with a trapper. My buddy leased the farm and I went out and took care of them. They was very happy because they was losing there horse pasture. It just sad that as much as there making all the new trucks four wheelers and boats and the can’t take 10 minutes to help someone.

I'm sure they're are

X2!!.....again.

Only YOU can change whats going on in your state. Do you go to annual DNR public meetings/hearings? Of course you dont. Do you participate in public surveys? No way. Do you encourage your outdoor-interested kids to pursue a career with a wildlife agency? Heck no.

Most of yall just want to sit around and gripe and do nothing but offer your uninforned opinions about WHY things are like they are. Misery likes company and yall are def not alone.

Handling this about like you handle other issues facing hunters and trappers in your state? Someone else can do it....yep!

Alot of truth said there. :-(

For some, I reckon so.

YES!!!
Jim

Truth.

Do you go there oh man of genius. I have been to several of the yearly meetings and voiced my opinion. After the last time the state didn’t have a bobcat season because of a bunch of left wing anti’s when there was a bunch of trappers and hunters there telling them there was bobcats everywhere and they even had enough proof in there little study they did. They catered to them because they was crying about the study wasn’t complete yet and we should wait till the study was done so we would know the true numbers. Guess what that was several years ago. Guess what else. The study still hasn’t been completed because a bunch of researchers are making a bunch of money sitting around licking the sacks. Ive called and wrote to them several time about why there not buying land or forcing the old mead corporation to honor the reduced tax rate the state gave them in there land in turn for public hunting. I got nowhere. They can sure afford all the new trucks four wheelers boats and swat gear but they can’t afford a 100 acres for public hunting. I’ve also called several times to see about doing stuff for grouse, rabbits etc. They just say a few things and hang up. So in closing. It’s to far gone just like this country. There isn’t enough men with balls to stand up and do something.

I believe Cuomo already has...

Do you go there oh man of genius. I have been to several of the yearly meetings and voiced my opinion. After the last time the state didn’t have a bobcat season because of a bunch of left wing anti’s when there was a bunch of trappers and hunters there telling them there was bobcats everywhere and they even had enough proof in there little study they did. They catered to them because they was crying about the study wasn’t complete yet and we should wait till the study was done so we would know the true numbers. Guess what that was several years ago. Guess what else. The study still hasn’t been completed because a bunch of researchers are making a bunch of money sitting around licking the sacks. Ive called and wrote to them several time about why there not buying land or forcing the old mead corporation to honor the reduced tax rate the state gave them in there land in turn for public hunting. I got nowhere. They can sure afford all the new trucks four wheelers boats and swat gear but they can’t afford a 100 acres for public hunting. I’ve also called several times to see about doing stuff for grouse, rabbits etc. They just say a few things and hang up. So in closing. It’s to far gone just like this country. There isn’t enough men with balls to stand up and do something. [/quote]


I go to meetings, make phone calls, participate in surveys, etc. Speaking of a bobcat season, I ran across at least a half a dozen sets of tracks today while beaver trapping. To be fair I covered a lot of ground, but still. They seem to be very thick where I’m at, but no season yet. I’ve talked to multiple trappers who regularly release 5 a year. Is there any talk about when it will be voted on again?

This has been an interesting topic.

I've worked for 3 state wildlife/fisheries agencies over the past 22 years. I started off in 1999-2001. For the most part, the vast majority of the folks I knew were avid hunters and anglers. Where I saw the most shenanigans was with the commissioner directing the agency. They often wanted stuff that contradicted solid science. One in particular was constantly pressuring us to turn a section of the one river into a trophy trout designation so he could open a guide service out of his property along the river. If you don't "help" them out, they make your life heck until you do or you quit/retire. My supervisor never gave in and had a quote from the former director on his wall that said "Do your duty and fear no one". Its hard to live (or stay employed) by this today with all of politics that are in the upper levels of agencies.

I spent 2004-2019 in another agency after graduate school. For the most part most folks were either hunters or anglers but only a handful trapped. Because these agencies are also charged with the nongame aspect of wildlife too and a void was left that allowed quite a few non-hook and bullet types in the agency. I was one of about 3 people in the entire section of 30+ biologists that was an avid sportsmen. One of our botanists was a past director for Greenpeace and a secretary was supporter of PETA. A few gave me flack for trapping using partial science but their ignorance failed to let them see other aspects that they didn't know benefited all wildlife and people. Others would support trapping because they saw what nest predators did to sea turtle nests. Ironically, the botanist that had worked for Greenpeace was fully supportive of deer hunting, hog hunting, bear hunting, and beaver trapping because they were the biggest reason mountain bogs with rare plants and turtles were getting destroyed. What was promising is several of the people that never hunted have finally came around and started deer hunting over the past year or two. Several participated in the Conservation Leaders For Tomorrow program which has given many of these folks with no experience a chance to learn about hunting. This program recognized that many of the new biologist in agencies don't have the experience or appreciation for hunting. The program leaders also would like to fit in trapping but its already a very long and costly program so I don't see this happening unless more funding becomes available.

Again, politics was another issue that made things tough in this agency. Lots of politicians within the upper end of the agency wanted things that benefited them and not the sportsmen or wildlife of the state. The wildlife director unfortunately said "no" too often and was asked to retire or he would be retired. This director was a big hunter and supporter of trapping and overall great director but didn't play their game. This was the first sign that it may be time to leave. Another sign was when the second in command got arrested for a DUI that caused multiple serious injuries to the passenger but he only got a lateral transfer. The cover up was slick as could be and most folks had no clue about it. I saw the moral compass of the leadership lacking and it played a big part my my decision to leave and agency that I really liked and that was family. In these cases, none of these political figures were anti hunting or trapping and I would say most would support it. They also didn't like any controversy so they liked to keep anything trapping related quiet, especially in a state that was getting infiltrated by more city folk which were out numbering the rest of the state. I'm not sure many would stick their necks out to openly support trapping.

The agency that I currently work for seems to be one of the most pro trapping I've seen nationwide. The commissioners and directors are supportive and the agency has been having a number of social media posts promoting trapping. Some of the biologist don't seem to be overly supportive of trapping but they don't seem to have any major opposition either. It also seems to have the most employees of any agency I've worked that trap on their own time. What is most perplexing is that the furbearer biologists in the past 2 agencies really didn't seem very supportive of trapping although I wouldn't consider them antis at all. I would more or less say that they were uninterested.

The USFWS on the other hand seems to have few biologist and managers that even hunt let alone trap. Some have a respect for it and other are very opposed to hunting and especially trapping. However, the regional PR director and I have been exchanging emails regarding a piece he is trying to write regarding the benefits of trapping to endangered species.

With all that said, I have also worked with a number of young recent graduates in the wildlife field that have never hunted but are interested in learning to hunt. A few mentioned that they can't find many experienced hunters that would consider mentoring them without being condescending or overly macho about it. I've witnessed some of this first hand. In these cases are we as hunters and/or trappers helping or hurting our cases in making sure that this and the next generation of wildlife managers are familiar with these aspects of wildlife management?

There are certainly a lot of anti folks working for wildlife agencies but there are also a lot of these folks that don't have a honest opinion because they don't know anything about it. There are also a lot of politicians at the top that are simply jellyfish and don't want anything to do with trapping because of the controversy it may bring. Of all of these threats, I'm most concerned with the political aspects from the upper leadership that tend to ignore the science or experts, often due to personal gain or ignorance of the process.

Without a doubt, more every year.

Yes.

DNR here have been great in my encounters with them over the years. Each is different because they are still people but they all have all been professional.

You don’t operate a bulldozer the same way you operate a truck and so on. Learning how to identify what you are driving and how to drive it is quite beneficial.

That's like giving Larry Flynt a seat at the table in the Billy Graham Association. They keep trying to get on the board here but I don't think they've been successful, not yet.

Absolutely. The first requirement is a college degree. Add to that women and minorities because of Affirmative Action. Enough said.

This is right on the money, prior to about 30 years ago, the majority of people going into wildlife agencies did so because they grew up hunting, fishing and to a lesser degree, trapping. But those that didn't trap were 100 % for it, but let's face it of the three groups, we are the minority. The majority of those where white males. They lived for hunting and fishing throughout their career, then Affirmative Action changed things, and you could see it happen slowly like a disease, creeping in and now those people are running these agencies. There are still some good ones but they are slowly getting out numbered.

YES

I go to meetings, make phone calls, participate in surveys, etc. Speaking of a bobcat season, I ran across at least a half a dozen sets of tracks today while beaver trapping. To be fair I covered a lot of ground, but still. They seem to be very thick where I’m at, but no season yet. I’ve talked to multiple trappers who regularly release 5 a year. Is there any talk about when it will be voted on again?

Same here. I get trail camera pictures of them all the time. I listened to them carrying on all summer long every night on the hill in front of my house. My buddy who is in the same county over but just a few miles away sees them all the time, usually 2-3 at a time. I believe they usually raise a litter on his place every year. I haven’t spoken to the game warden in a few years over the vote or opening a season. I never see him any more. The only time I see him is the week of gun season.

They've made it so difficult for a young person to get a fur bearer license here in Utah that trapping fur bearers will be gone before long. It's difficult for a young person to attend a trapper education class if they don't offer one or the only one that is occasionally offered is 250 miles awasy. I called the DWR and their excuse was there just isn't enough interest in trapping to put a lot of financial resources toward it.

Do they offer it online. Ohio has put everything online. I would ask for a home course or something.

But even 30 years ago biologists needed a college education...You guys can't possibly be saying anyone who has a college education in fish or wildlife management is an anti....

Posco, Do you know who the current commissioners previous employer was?

I have gone to meetings regarding the wolf situation and other issues. They listen, then do what ever they want.
An example was a local lake where the DNR was listening to many of the landowners regarding the stocking of catfish in the lake. The vote was very unanimous against the stocking, but they did it anyway. This way they can say they held at meeting with all the landowners on the lake prior to the stocking. Of course, they don't comment on the how the voting went unless it had been in favor. Then they would have.

Here is another fine example of the odnr. I’m going to research when the last time they bought land for hunting and trapping. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wkbn.com/news/ohio/ohio-announces-new-state-park/amp/

Never thought I would say this in Montana but yes. I remember going into the Helena FWP office across from the capitol last year to buy licenses. The employee parking lot was full of cars with liberal bumper stickers. Walked into the office and saw nothing but pasty skinned hipsters in every office. Not one person wearing camo, blue jeans, or flannel. No question they are hiring wardens and biologist who don’t hunt. Hope our new Governor guts the leadership in Helena.

The manager of the Federal Wildlife Refuge here has the name of Juancarlos. College educated but I've never seen him out of his office.

No genius here, but yessir, I'm somewhat involved with Ga DNR...lol

I believe I saw a show where well known hunters were taking members of their States DNR out hunting. In some instances, these folks had never even shot a gun before. Maybe some could visit their local offices and offer to take someone out and show them the ropes. College educated meets real world knowledge.