Pepper spray or pistols for bear attacks

If you were carrying both on you, which would you use first? Let’s keep long guns out of it.

Depends on the situation. Bears are pretty easy to read. If it's an aggressive bear, pistol works for me. On the other hand, I've been in situations with both blacks and grizzlies where the "charge" was a bluff or they were curious. In those situations, pepper spray is okay. With that said, in bear country, I don't carry pepper spray. I'm still around; there are a few bears that aren't.

Only time bear spray would be nice is if a buddy is getting chewed on. It'd be tough if you killed somebody trying to save them.

10mm Glock 29 for me.

spray all the way

385gr Remington coreloct HP @ 1700fps. never had to shoot a bear in defense but the way that load slammed a bull elk to the ground makes me comfortable. Over 21” penetration including 8” of spine pulverized.

I really have no problem with gun being the first option. There are plenty of griz and only one EdP, and I'm important to me (and to the wife too I think). Killing a griz that is willing to attack a human seems like a public service. If it's OK to kill another human trying to kill me why is it not OK to kill a griz doing the same??? Griz are not an endangered species any more, but EdPs are.

Just one of those things I do not screw around with.
44magnum S&W 4” mountain gun. It does threat assessment and problem termination without fail.

Osky

I wrote "Bear Spray" on top of slide!!!

It would depend on the situation. If its not charging probably spray first . If coming fast second!!

I often carry both. I agree with Gulo. I've been able to read them and have never encountered a truly determined-to-attack-me bear. I once face-sprayed a pair of grizzlies, it worked. They went one way and I went the other. Even bluff charges are scary. I used to carry a .44 mag, nowadays a Glock 10mm and a German Shepherd.

X2 mine is a CZ 10mm

Only ever had to deal with one brown bear and that was handled with a Ithaca 12g loaded with slugs and that bear still ended up at our feet

If you have never been in that situation it will surprise and shock you just how fast and agile a brown or grizzly is

Not to mention downright scary

Like Gulo said, spray is a deterrent for a bear that's curious or bluffing, just like shouting. A bear that's decided to kill you isn't going to be deterred. I still carry spray sometimes, mostly to hand to tourist friends & family to make them feel better. I wouldn't be without a gun in bear woods though.

Edit: I should add that around here, killing a self-defense bear is really no more than an inconvenience, since I have to skin and transport an animal I wasn't planning to. There are more than enough bears, and one without fear of humans is better off dead.

[quote=Grandpa Trapper]If you were carrying both on you, which would you use first? Let’s keep long guns out of it. [/quot
I am around grizzlies quite a bit. I carry both. I say and like to think spray first but in the event of an explosive charge, instinct may cause a different reaction. In many cases, I think a bear may get you before you can deploy spray and if you get hit with a gun drawn, the gun is likely to go flying. So my theory is spray first and if it gets me on the ground, the gun comes out of my chest holster.

So far, I've only accidentally deployed spray on myself. I was packing a boned-out load of meat and I had a can of spray in my pants pocket and it didn't have a trigger guard on it. Stupid thing to do. I stopped to rest and filter some water and let the pack go off one shoulder and let it swing around to catch it on my thigh. When I did, I heard the spray go off. I kind of opened my pocket and looked into it. Some vapor floated up and I immediately went into a coughing, choking, hacking fit. I couldn't believe how it incapacitated me. Well soon after, I realized that some of the spray soaked through my gortex and lit my privates on fire. I had to strip down and plunge my groin into a creek. The fire went out but a ways down the drainage it started coming back. Back into the creek I went. The relief was immediate but temporary. Three or four times I repeated this process as I made my way down the drainage to my truck. I remember thinking I'd rather shoot myself through the foot with a .44 than take a load of that spray to the groin. I finally made it back to my truck and I thought it was over and I was feeling pretty good. About 10 miles down the highway, the searing pain was back. It seemed forever before I finally came to a creek. I jumped from the truck and stumbled under the bridge to sit down n the creek and was instantly relieved. That ended it and the burning pain never came back. But when I went back the next day for another load, I carried a shotgun. Lol. Darn spray nearly killed my boys. It was like taking a hot brand down there.

When we were in Wyoming a couple of years ago we asked about hiking just outside of Yellowstone as we got tired of the crowds of non Americans in the park. On two occasions we were told not to hike without a weapon. I asked about the bear spray and was told almost word for word by both people bear spray only works on the ones that weren’t gonna eat you to start with .

Seemed like good advice !

For those of you that carry a.44mag. Check out the Hornady .430” 265gr. Flat nosed bullet. It was designed for the 444 Marlin and is a bit tougher than most pistol bullets. Should provide better penetration to the vitals and breaking down bone. Handloads only far as I know. As I said above I’ve never had to kill a bear in self defense.
It is just a bit to long for the short cylinder 44s like the Tarus Tracker. Fits fine in the Super Black Hawks and Red Hawks. Don’t know about the 29/629s as I’ve never owned one.

Be careful with your expectations of bear spray. As part of training for officers we had to be sprayed with OC pepper spray. They drenched our faces and eyes, we had to fight through another officer that used a big pad to block our efforts. The first thing that happened to me is that the spray enraged me and made me want to put the hurt on the guy with the pad. I had litterally lost the ability to reason. It was several seconds before I lost my sight and several more before I was incapacitated. Even if you get a good coating on that bears face and eyes a lot can happen while it takes effect. You better change the location you were in before the bear gets to you. I don't think I would trust spray for a full on bear charge after seeing how OC affected me in just a controlled situation. I'm not trying to downplay the spray but you should at least know it's limitations before you stake your life on it. Bob

Post of the year!!!! Thank you; made my night LOL!!!

Bacon is for bear attacks. a 454 Cassul is against bear attacks

I think bear spray is just something that makes you feel a bit more at ease in bear country. By the time you're in a position to try and use it in any sort of effective manner you're probably already in a world of trouble.

Good Advice

if I could I would use the spray first and avoid paper work

but I would spray early and often

the way I see it , you want to have sprayed before you start shooting to avoid concerns that you didn't give fair warning.

nothing saying you can't spray weak hand, gun strong hand if the spray works great holster if the spray isn't working it has been deployed. toss it and get both hands on the gun so you can make lots of holes.

On black bears the spray every time. On brown bears the gun is pulled

Never dealt with bears... No firsthand knowledge. So I took a look at YouTube and bear charges...

Gotta say I'm going with the pistol... The most powerful one I can accurately handle.

But I saw a few videos where a blast of bear spray certainly would have sufficed.

Mike

I hear a mule will run a grizzly off

Way less convenient then spray and handguns.

How well does bear spray work in below freezing temps ? I carry a BFR 45-70 on a chest holster.

I've been forced to kill a few bears in DLP situations over the years. Both blacks and grizzlies. Never carried bear spray. I know from others I respect that it works in some situations. "some situations" is the reason I dont use it. Bears have an uncanny sense of smell, and can be very aggressive if you surprise them at close range. In that scenario you will almost always be downwind of them. Not a good situation since the wind can cause you problems with the spray. Tents are another place bear spray is useless. I also believe that an enraged bear would be hard to stop with spray. I know one fellow who although he escaped being mauled, had a very close call when he realized his bear spray was frozen and wouldnt work.

I agree with Gulo to a point...bears CAN be easy to read. They are also one of the most unpredictable animals on the planet. Especially interior grizzlies. I've seen them go from mildly curious to going to kill you in the span of a few seconds. When I was reporting the last grizzly I had to kill to the conservation officers, one of the questions I was asked was if the bear had his ears back and his mouth open. Apparently thats a sign they are serious. Maybe. The fact is it happens so fast you will be to busy to notice things like that.

One of my pet peeves is some of the outdoor writers who push bear spray like its the greatest thing since sliced bread, when they have never used it. Canadian writer TJ Swanky is one such writer. What he doesnt tell readers is that one of the bear spray companies sponsors his TV show.

My personal rule is to never let any bear get inside 30-yards or so. I am confident that I can stop them outside that distance. Inside 30-yards is to risky. The bear dies if it crosses the 30-yard line.

I live in bear country and where they are protected and have no fear of people for the most part. I have been charged twice and one thing for sure it happens fast and both firearms and spray can have issues. With spray wind, temperature and early deployment can be a problem. With a weapon early deployment and accurate shooting are a problem. I dont care what gun you have a bear coming at you at 30 mph with no warning is going to cause stress and not a lot of clean kill area to hit bouncing area under stress is not easy. Best policy in bear country is be looking for bear sign. If you see tracks, smell a kill or are in areas that bears frequent have your spray and gun ready. Spray worked both times I used it but I like a side arm or better yet shotgun with slug and buck shot.

No worries here on my side of the country, but a couple things to think about. A gun will shoot into the wind, spray not so much. If neither one stops the attack and you get mauled anyway, you can still use the gun to end your own misery (if you're not empty). More spray to your temple will just make things worse.

I just make sure to hunt with a partner that is slower than me.

I am with you. I have no clue about bears. I do however know about spraying aerosolized liquids. I would prefer sending lead through the air when dealing with an aggressive anything.

Well if you use mules to pack in and out then I would figure a mule isn't unhandy

Interesting stuff. I've got a backpacking trip planned for the summer of 2022 in northwest wyoming, just east of yellowstone. I plan on carrying spray and a pistol, but Im pretty sure my 40 s&w won't cut it.

I believe you are right

I also believe based on energy tables the 10 mm being close to .357 is a little over rated at least for the grizzlies I’ve seen,( about a dozen). Black and grizzly aren’t even in the same ballpark IMO. A little bit of info from a bear biologist in the jellystone ecosystem. In a ten year study he was in charge of the largest bear was a black @ 570 ish Number 2 was a grizzly about 20lb lighter. Go figure.

My wy friend has a 44 Mag for the bears

this is a interesting read
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...e-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz6pCY3UUm6

with a fair number of deputies getting called to nuisance bears and them having to shoot more and more they are getting some better stats on the typically duty caliber guns for bear defense and making more holes is definitely better than a really loud miss.

while not instantly fatal in most cases good hits from a 9, 40 or 45 have proven effective in deterring a bear often when the bear has already been sprayed

there are clearly times when the spray just isn't a good option like your pointing into a head wind.

a shot gun or rifle is also a better option for a stop but a handgun and spray are easier to carry and faster to deploy.

The most important part of being armed for defense is that a handgun helps give you the confidence you need to calmly diffuse aggressive predator encounters. Most uncomfortable encounters aren't full blown charges, with "no time to react" they are size ups, stare downs and posturing. Having a firearm will certainly increase your ability to posture.

That would be my choice with a Taurus 44 magnum.

Loosegoose best just be aware of bear sign and keep your food stored as specified by Regulations and camp away from your food and where you cook I even sleep in cloths just for sleeping not cooking and by all means dont cook in your tent the odors stay long after you cooked bears have the best nose in the woods and prevention is the best defense. As far as shooting bears if you dont kill them in a lot of cases they will be come more aggressive. We have had several mauling's attributed to wounded bears. In several cases the individuals were hit by the bear and dragged away from their gun. I had a friend that survived with a few bites and scratches but ended up with damaged knee and broken ribs from the impact of the hit. He said it was like getting hit by a truck.

Years ago, I remember hunting with a guide in MT. He said gunshots were like a dinner bell for a bear.

Some related reading for ya

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/na...7a67ef9-3b37-5621-a11f-960bc282342a.html

https://www.rcinet.ca/eye-on-the-ar...rs-could-old-advice-be-completely-wrong/

Not starting a fight here but i beat 95% including me would not be able to hit a bear in the brain at10 yrds in a 2 second charge. Yes probably complete a body shot maybe two if your lucky but your torn up before they die if they die. Anything more than the recoil of a 45 acp and you only get one shot the second round would be held next to the bears body if your man enough to hang onto the gun after the impact. And the investigation of a firearm being involved is almost not worth carrying a gun to avoid the legal matter. Thier is lots of recherché out thier by biologist that actually deal directly with this on a regular bases but its alway hard to overcome the ego of a man with a gun. LOL

Your right on that one the oh poo factor comes into effect real fast, I have seen that with rooster pheasants, white tails popping out of the brush and coyotes coming in from behind. Also they don't weigh up to 800lbs have claws and teeth. As far as bears coming to gun shots its true they become conditioned very fast where they have total protection and the state of Montana even did research on it also put GPS devices on hunters and followed there movements and the movements of bears with collars tracking them and coming in after a shot. Think about it a bear hears a gun shot, smells a gut pile fresh blood and gets a free meal next time he gets quicker about it so he does not lose the meal to another bear. No different than banging a pan prior to feeding chickens or slopping hogs.

Ya my old college roommate has lost elk in the Absaroka Range because of the dinner bell effect. And gets real tired of chasing his mule down from camp after a grizzly spooks it off. LOL

A solid hit anywhere is usually enough to turn them. Bears, and bear charges, in the real world are much different than those who havent experienced it probably think. Each case is different too. The last time I had trouble with a grizzly a young sow came from 350-yards away at a dead run. Wide open alpine country and I had a hunter with me at the time. I turned her at 40 yards with a shot in front of her so it ended well.

A friend of mine followed a wounded grizzly into the brush a few years back. This fellow is extremely athletic and experienced in bear country. The bear was waiting, and got on him before he could get off a shot. He lost his gun in the scuffle but was able to scoot under a partially fallen tree. The bear tried to go over the tree, but because its shoulder was broken from the first shot, it couldnt make it over. My buddy escaped and the only injury he sustained, is one bite make directly in the middle of his back.

Might be different in WY, but up here the majority of biologists spend most of their careers behind a desk. They would be the last group of people I would go to for advice on bears, or how to deal with an aggressive bear.

A few tips from survival class. If a bear cannot be stopped with spray or gun and you are down try to keep presence of mind to focus on its eyes. Every predator, be it bear, man, shark, whatever, they all have one vulnerable spot. That's the eyes. A knife or gun is the best tool for the job. Putting (sacrificing) a hand or forearm up to take the bite & using the other to take out an eye with knife or gun is what can save your life in that situation. If you have handgun in hand with a bear on top of you focus gun under its chin or throat if eye is not poss. Of course keep firing or stabbing till threat is no longer. God forbid there is ever any escalation to that point. In ending, in brown bear country carry gun & fixed blade knife. Stay safe out there

And another off topic view of this matter is every time a bear is supposedly killed by a self-defense situation by 99% human error/fault thats one less reason i have a legal season in wy to hunt grizzlies other than the fffinnngggg Judge from montana what is up with that guy anyway. I have no knowledge of him.

If I am ever in grizzly country I'd have no problem keeping a can of bear spray close (so long as my .45 Colt was just as easy to grab).

I don't know crap about bears but I can tell ya a bear set on pushin you out of its feeding ground might be one thing but I would guess a momma who thought you had come by for her cubs might be a different kinda encounter all together.

I love when you guys post first or 2nd hand stories about encounters, I watch as many as I can on youtube or the TV but there is always a lot of hype and drama that I think could usually be left out. I might have ADHD too LOL

Been bluff charged by one coastal brown bear sow with cubs in tow. I fired off a warning shot and she stopped and locked eyes. Never moved, I slowly backed away after a min and she just watched. When I lived in AK I went with a gun every time over spray. Bullets don't care about wind as much. When you see a bear charging across a salmon stream at you the last thing you'll want is an aerosol cloud as your only defense.

My opinion on the whole "spray is more effective" thing is that spray is over reported and gun usage is probably under reported. Any yuppie hiking Yellowstone for the first time that sees a bear is going to fire off that spray (even if the bear was already walking away by the time they deploy it). When they get off that trail they're going to report it to the parks dept or dnr. Most outdoorsmen in the wilderness won't report a warning gunshot that stopped a bluff. Myself included. I even knew people that claimed they had shot bears charging them and never reported it due to hassle involved ( I do not condone or agree with this).

Oreamnos Your guess might be a good one.



Not in every state but IDT we have too look too far to find biologists who are gettin ever more political (I wont mention any wolf problem states yall know who you are and ya know I am right about this too unfortunately)

My plans are to move to Montana and if a grizz or a moose is a coming at me he will take a .454 cassul to the face

Seems like every salmon stream on the road system has an army of fishermen standing hip to hip, handguns strapped to hip or chest, bowie knife on the opposite hip, and some with a shotgun as well. The bears show more sense than the human hoards. Given the number of bears and the number of fishermen up here, there are remarkably few stories to tell.

Sows with cubs are the worst. I've had three unexpected encounters and I have always had a rifle nearby, but in two cases it was useless. It was in a gun case strapped to ATV. The third time was butchering a moose in the dark. Mama and two large cubs circling and woofing just out of flashlight range. I had the young guy with me remove the shell in the chamber of his gun. He was way too excited. There's no bear as deadly as a human with a loaded gun. A close range sudden encounter is truly scary. Grizzly bears are astoundingly fast.

Situational awareness will prevent MOST problems. But I'm thinking bears like spicy food, so I pack a gun.

Older bears that are starving are the worst, especially in the winter. I ran into an old boar one fall while I was guiding. We were drifting in a boat with the motor off. Long story short, when the bear spotted us drifting by him about 20-yards from shore he didnt hesitate. He locked eyes with me, and came like a freight train. My rifle was in a case in the bottom of the boat. Luckily my hunter was a good rifleman. He shot the bear in the neck 10-feet from the boat. I won the buckle that year for that bear. It was the largest grizzly taken in Yukon that year. My rifle is never in a case now.

Cool story bro

Got any pictures for us guys in the lower 48 to look at? Also on a scale of 1-10 what was your pucker factor at that moment LOL?

I always remember listening to Paul Harvey one morning when he was talking about some hikers planning to camp in Glacier National Park. They were told to carry bear spray and to wear little bells on their clothing to alert the bears a head of time that you were in the area.

One of the hikers asked the ranger in charge, "How they would know if they were in bear country?"

The ranger said when you come upon fresh bear scat, you would know there was a bear nearby.

"And how can you tell if it's bear scat?", the man asked.

Two which the ranger replied, "You can tell by the little bells in it."

"it smells like pepper and there are little bells in it" that's how I remember hearing it

Here's a few pictures of nasty bears over the years. The top bear was a small sow that was laying under a log waiting for me, ( she had been wounded an hour earlier.)

The picture of two guys is my son and another guide with a bear my son had to kill a few years back. It was a large boar that was starving. It was quite the story that went on for three nights before my son finally killed the bear. Amazing someone didnt get killed.

The picture with me and the big boar and muzzle loader is the biggest bear I've ever taken. He was stealing meat at the trapline a few years ago.

The old black and white photo is a picture of my dad in the late 60s with a real tank of a bear he killed at the Gang Ranch in BC. That bear ranks #16 in the BC book to this day. Notice the rifle? Its a little Ruger 44 semi auto. My dad killed 7 big coastal bears with that gun. He never reloaded so had to be using 240 grain factory bullets. Some people say the 44 isnt adequate for grizzly...... another bear myth busted.

Glad that guy was ready!

Very cool pictures Yukon254, that picture of your dad is awesome. IDT if it is the way he wears his hat but he just looks like a man who would be handy with that rifle.

your story about your dad and his little ruger reminds me of a guy I used to know , he was the grandfather of one of my cub scouts , he was a mule handler for a guided service , he took care of the mules and cooked and kept camp.
clients would give him a hard time about the model 94 he carried , being short and not very powerful . he would tell them I am not here to shoot the game and at the distances I will need to be shooting it will be just fine. carried in hand and not in scabbard.

I've heard the rifle shot/dinner bell analogy before and there might be something to it. Then again, bears have incredible noses and don't need a lot of help finding grub.

A bud and I hunted Kodiak for deer one fall. Deer numbers were up, the limit was five and it wasn't hard to put them on the ground. The first afternoon out, I had three deer like the one pictured down. It was late in the day so we stashed them in a ravine with the intention of retrieving them in the morning. We returned early the following morning and all three deer were gone. Bears came in during the night and hauled them off. We shot two more deer during the course of our trip. The two we got back to camp were taken in the night. They were boxed and stored sixty or eighty yards from our tent. There are no trees on that part of the island suitable to hanging meat, just alders. We never heard the bear or bears come in. We got one venison dinner off five deer.

We came upon this bear at about five to ten yards. You can see the cave the bear was in. It was right along the saltwater and the tide was in. We rounded a point and this bear came out sideways and stopped dead in its tracks. It was as surprised to see us as we were it. It didn't know what to do and for a few brief moments, neither did I

I've posted this and said it before...my first instinct was too throw my rifle at the bear and run. It was a relatively short standoff before I got me wits back about me. We all think we know how we'd respond until we find ourselves in that situation.

What a brute

A guy I know that lives up in the Brooks range of Alaska had a run in with a very old thin bear that was out and about in mid-winter. He was running his team and met the old grizzly, the bear instantly attacked the team. The musher escaped with his life while eight out of his nine dogs weren't so lucky as you can see in the picture. As someone else had mentioned, the old, out during wintertime bears are the worst. They went and found the bear later and took care of matters. I think he said the biologists aged it at 29 years. Super old Bruin with really bad teeth. Always be prepared because you just never know when a bear might pop up.

Wow quite a story and photo. That was a war zone. Experienced trappers in my neck of the woods carry a heavy rifle all winter because there is always the possibility you will run into one of those old bears. Im sure everyone remembers that poor lady and her baby a couple years back in northern Yukon....Thats still the worst bear attack I've ever heard about.

I shot a seventeen year old male grizzly that had just come out of the den. There was not a single tooth in the bears head that didn't have a cavity. Every canine was snapped off from fighting, or so I presume. That bear knew I was there, it saw me but maybe its myopic eyesight wasn't enough and it wanted my wind. I shot it before it got directly downwind of me. I was well above tree line and there was nothing at all for cover. Maybe it would have run after it got my wind, maybe not. I've seen them take an awful lot of punishment from heavy caliber rifles before the fight goes out of them.