USDA trappers in Wisconsin

I was always under the assumption that they couldn't trap until after the fur season......what's the deal with that....traps in today, signs posted....mine were put in Sunday, about 30 yards in

nobody?

try posting on the ADC forum. They're much loved over there.

Are you North or South of 64?

north

Call the number. They will pull the traps.

looks to me they're not trapping "nuisance animals"...but for profit trapping...as its just a feeder creek in the national forest...0 beaver sign, but I set for travelers because I drive past it anyway

Stop guessing. Call their office.

They are responsible for removing beaver from classified trout streams. Obviously you already know there doesn’t need to be sign for beaver to be present this time of year or you would not have set there yourself. They know that too. They will definitely remove their traps if you let them know you are trapping there.

These where on every trout stream and small creek I came to last April.

I would try calling them like BvrRetriever suggested.

exactly, usually works well down here

No worries...most of them aren't that capable anyhow.

Sounds like a good otter spot.

I am not a fan of the use of them to remove beaver without at first trying to find a local trapper to do it. However, in fairness to them most of them in my area are very effective.

We have a miguided beaver control plan that continues through apathy and habit.

Guys is Trout Unlimited still backing this?

My stating now, the way I feel about this issue would have me banished from this site by the afternoon...

I believe Trout Unlimited Is bank rolling part of It. And I talked to a DNR fisheries person and was told the WI DNR also funds the USDA to the tune of around a million dollars per year. Not sure If this Is trure or not but I heard that It costs about $400.00 to have each bereave removed from the problem area.
The sad part Is that these beaver are more or less wasted as to using the fur. And you can bet your bottom dollar that most beaver are left In the bush along with lots of otter.

Seems to me they should put these problem beaver areas up for bids. I know lots of trappers would jump at the chance to get paid $400.00 per beaver.

That is good to see government supporting trappers and trapping.

And have the government miss a chance at wasting money not a chance.

Subsidized competition. Using our own money against us. Tax dollars and license fees

Most on here don't understand the USDA. I have a few friends who work for the USDA, so I have a good understanding of how they work. They get payed an hourly wage (about $15 per hour), so there's no way it's costing 400.00 per beaver. It costs way more to higher a private trapper because they have a lot of other costs to cover to make a living at it. Understandably so. The program helps those who don't have a lot of money to deal with problems. The companies or landowners with money will hire private trappers. It's up to who owns or manages the land to decide who they want to take care of the problem.

A state or county doesn't even have to contract with or use the USDA but they generally do because it's a cheaper route to go for landowners who don't have the funds. The program really helps when fur is worth no money because numbers get out of hand and not many trap for fur then.

These jobs are open all the time. So if you're one of the jealous ones, put an application in so you can make the big money trapping.

They appear to be jumping for $10 to $20 beaver?

No way it's costing $400 per beaver?

Lay the math out for us!

Most on here don't understand the USDA. I have a few friends who work for the USDA, so I have a good understanding of how they work. They get payed an hourly wage (about $15 per hour), so there's no way it's costing 400.00 per beaver. It costs way more to higher a private trapper because they have a lot of other costs to cover to make a living at it. Understandably so. The program helps those who don't have a lot of money to deal with problems. The companies or landowners with money will hire private trappers. It's up to who owns or manages the land to decide who they want to take care of the problem.

A state or county doesn't even have to contract with or use the USDA but they generally do because it's a cheaper route to go for landowners who don't have the funds. The program really helps when fur is worth no money because numbers get out of hand and not many trap for fur then.

These jobs are open all the time. So if you're one of the jealous ones, put an application in so you can make the big money trapping. [/quote]




The trapper may only be getting paid $15.00 an hour. But USDA like any other construction co they are bidding on these jobs and they aren't just charging for labor. No one would stay In business very long If they bid a job on labor alone. There Is no profit In that equation.

Where’s Marshrat? I believe he dug up that publication that disclosed the amount per beaver and yes it was in the $400 range if memory serves.

I cannot imagine that private guys couldn’t work within those parameters. Geez keets is doing it for free.

$15 x 8 hours = $120. So if the worker only caught 1 beaver the whole day it only cost that much for the beaver not 400. If you want to get technical and double the amount for the other things provided for the USDA trapper the cost would be $240 for the one beaver not $400. If they're are trapping multiple places they are catching more than one beaver a day.

I agree some of these USDA trappers may not be worth a hoot but there are some out there that are underestimated. I also understand the private sector thinks work is being taken from them. I really don't think that's the case. I see plenty of private guys going out there and getting the work. Most of those places USDA is working isn't probably worth the headache.

If you want the math and decisions made laid out more clearly for you go to whoever hires the USDA. It's either your state or county that contracts with them. It's public knowledge.

USDA has over head. It has to insure each trapper It has to insure the truck he drives + take care of maintenance on that vehicle and pay for gas.
And I bet the trapper Is getting paid from the time he leaves home and when he gets back to the house. He might spend 5 hours setting up that beaver job and another 5 hours checking traps. That comes out to $150.00 and he may not have even caught any beaver yet.
Like I said these jobs aren't bid on just the cost of labor.


$15.00 X 8 hours = $120.00

Give me a chance to trap one beaver and charge $120.00 to catch It.

The trapper may only be getting paid $15.00 an hour. But USDA like any other construction co they are bidding on these jobs and they aren't just charging for labor. No one would stay In business very long If they bid a job on labor alone. There Is no profit In that equation.
[/quote]

Keep in mind USDA is non profit. They just need enough money to cover expenses to meet the budget they have not make a profit.

How many hours of paperwork are done with each beaver.

Non-profit does not mean you don't make profit. Difference of for-profit and non is where the profits go.

A good friend of mine is the chairman in a small township up north. He has stated they pay $800 per year to one trapper for beaver control no matter if he traps zero or more than one. He asked me if I felt that was a fair price. My reply was would you rather pay him by the hour?

I must say you are missing the point. This is not about what the bottom of the totem pole worker is making, it is about all of the bureaucracy up the chain above him and all of their expenses that get thrown in. Non profit has to be one of the most misunderstood terms around. It just means when the end of the fiscal year is over your money in the coffers show $0. No strings to where or how much someone somewhere gets. If in the end your always without money, that means you need more the following year correct?

It seems like some of you aren't happy no matter what unless the money is in your hands. Just be happy for someone having work and don't play the victim that the USDA is taking something from you. Get out there and get the work people are willing to pay if you want to be in the private sector. No different than competing with any of the private sectors.

I tried but their insistence on liability insurance and handling of dynamite prohibited me from even going farther. See USDA only needs one guy to be licensed for dynamite plus very easy for a Federal government agency funded by taxpayers $$$ to get any kind of insurance(again a Agency wide policy). But the worst part of this issues is they will never let out bids to the public when they can easily just use another fellow government agency.

If the government is paying, I don't believe that is private sector employment? We hate socialism! Unfortunately, we don't know what it is.

Totally bogus information. The airports and businesses can let out bids to the public(private) sector. It's their decision to make. Whether they decide to or not is up to them. It's not USDA's fault the company didn't open it up to the public.

Do the we astern national forests also have these USDA trappers?? This seems to pop up now and then, and mostly about the WI NFs. The again, a lot more trapperman people from WI than say WY. I wonder if USDA tries to clear beavs out of Black Hills NF...? I have no idea.

Only if they are asked or contracted to, otherwise no. There are many states and counties that don't even have or use the USDA program.

USDA controls (and traps) wildlife throughout the year through contracts and complaints. Seasons mean nothing... Like most people doing damage control work.

Most control guys around here charge $300 per beaver. I've been yelled at for charging less.

Typical fur trappers, who never sit down and tally all expenses (and give them to the tax man) have no clue how much it's really costing them to trap. Once you start tallying expenses, only then do you realize how much it costs to run any business. Ever buy a new truck? They aint cheap. Neither is insurance, tires, etc. Traps are the cheapest part of running a trapline.

That said, my biggest pain in the butt is USDA beaver trappers locally. They are great at catching the cream of the crop and moving on, leaving my the old wise ones. If I find out the USDA was in before me and now I'm here to clean up the mess, the price triples. They like to lock up a lot of trapping ground through contracts as well.

However, the best way to really learn how to become a better trapper is trap right next to someone better than you.

Or trap behind the ones that screwed everything up.

Sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about, silky plains coyote. Government entities in Wisconsin, including the State, County and Townships are required by State law to open bids to the public when taxpayer funds are used. But since they consider this a “service”, they seem to think that requirement of open bids is not necessary. Besides USDA is just another government entity so it’s very easy for one government entity to reach an agreement for another government entity to do a job for the other.

Furthermore USDA in WI doesn’t have to abide by the same rules as trappers in WI have to adhere to.

I am not familiar with the way APHIS/USDA does their beaver removal bids, but did work with the USDA/APHIS on agriculture damage issues, mostly starling control. The APHIS program for Ag needed to cover the cost of the program or work done. The program for ag was not subsidized by other USDA funds. As stated above may well be best to contact the townships or counties hiring APHIS to see what the bids are. If beaver removal is like AG then I am quite sure a lot of local units of government won't be spending $400 per beaver on removal. Now if organizations such as TU and others put funds toward that then that can be a game changer.

Bryce

Evidently you don't run a business if you think it's only double the amount to keep a man in the field with a pickup, snowmobile, boat, training, and other equipment.

Before anyone says something about my place of residence I was born, grew up and lived in Wisconsin for over 50 of my 71 years, plus trapped therefor over 30 years. Just moved from Wisconsin last June, 2020.

Have you gone MAD! Move to Illinois? Wrong direction lol.

I will lay the math out for you. One person said someone made $15. I disagree with this but would conservatively say at least $20/hr as that will put them around beginning GS6 wages. Lets say $40K/year for salary for beginning GS 6 wages or advanced 5. That is pay. Figure benefits, insurance, tsp matching and you have another $20k. Figure in office overhead, state director, district supervisor and you will add on at least 5K. Truck - oh they must be free....fuel, repairs, traps, supplies. free too right. Some will say - well these guys are not full time - term - but then you would figure overtime cause most I know work extra hours and get paid more and then off a few months
So, very conservatively say that employee actually only costs the USDA $65k..

Do you really think most USDA trappers really catch over 162 beavers? - tad over $400/beaver and I'd put money on it that it costs more than 65k for that employee.

This part is true and my main issue.

Most job listing with USDA/WS start them out at 20,000 to 22,000 per year. Most trappers are GS4&5's There are jobs that pay better. But they are not trappers for the most part. To get a GS-6 job you need to be working as a GS-5 and fill a slot when a GS-6 retires, transfers, quits or is fired. I would think they could catch 162 beaver in a year in WI. I think there are plenty of beaver there. Maybe not, I never trapped there.

Never said I ran a business and even acknowledged that it costs a private trapper more to operate. I know exactly what it costs for a USDA employee here in Nebraska. Talked to my friend and it costs $34 an hour to employ an individual. He gets paid half or a little less in a hourly wage. The rest covers vehicle, gas, and equipment. No overtime is allowed unless some entity is willing to pay for overtime. The cost isn't all covered by USDA. Your counties opt to contract with the USDA and pay for so many labor hours.

If you all are so jealous of these USDA employees go get one of the jobs. Like I said, they are an entry level job and open quite regularly.

So, one of your WI DNR dipsticks came to MN DNR and is now heading up the Wild Rice Lakes management program. Beaver Control had been bid out to local trappers and the program was working well. He liked the way things were done in WI (should have stayed there) and started using USDA. Now the program is costing more while they have reduced the number of managed rice lakes. That's government efficiency at it's finest.

Yes, I know 😕 but our oldest son lives here 3 blocks away. Wife insists she’ll out live me(probably will-her mom is 98) and wanted to live close to our oldest so we decided to make the move while still able. Plus we were growing very old and tired of the very long, snowy and bitter cold of northern Wisconsin winters. I don’t need a snow shovel down here.

I'm sure I know way more about how the USDA works than you do. I know several that work for them. My perspective is from out west here. Almost all ground is privately owned. Not much public ground or government owned land. Out here no one is required to use USDA and many counties don't support or have them. That's their choice. I'm sure that's the way it is in WI too. Whatever county you live in has contracted with the USDA, which they don't have to but decided to. It's the private owners decision to decide who they wish to use. Now if you're talking government lands, that's the governments prerogative to choose who they wish to employ since they manage the ground.

Actually No, the government is supposed to work for us. Governments conspiring to monopolize anything without a fair and competative bidding process is wrong.

The vast majority of the private guys don't have a explosive license. So are they qualified? Trapping them is only part of the job.

If dam removal is part of the job you put it in the bid specifications. Wild rice lakes are managed for low water levels for rice germination. Maintaining free flowing outlets means removing beaver and dams before they get big enough to need explosives. If you have impounded water high enough to need explosives the rice crop has probably already failed. I have pulled plenty of dams by hand.

The same principle applies to trout stream management. You can ruin a trout stream by allowing large impoundments to develop then blowing the dam, releasing a large slug of warm water and sediment down stream.

walleye101 and other private guys. I do understand how it's a sore spot. There's a a lot private guys that know their stuff and are capable. They are well known and have plenty of work even though USDA resides in their area. I just don't understand how all the blame lies on the USDA. Your counties have chosen who to use and may in the future open up bids to the private sector if they aren't happy or positions change.

It's no different than if a private company comes in and under bids you and gets the job. No private trappers will be in there, only personal who works for large control company. People would then complain how big business has monopolized the market and there's no way the private guy can compete. It's a continuous cycle. There's always going to be someone unhappy no matter how things turn out.

No different than bidding against a private company? No wonder you believe the USDA can put a man in the field with a truck, for 34 dollars an hour.

Firstly the government doesn't have to make a profit, that's a ten to fifteen percent advantage right there in a bidding process. Does the USDA pay real estate taxes on the buildings it owns? Does the USDA have to buy car insurance? Any kind of insurance? I guarantee you the US gubbemint is self insured.

It's not a level playing field and a private business can't put a man in the field for $34 an hour all in costs, neither can the Feds I don't care if they are paying 15 dollars an hour, they are using slight of hand to make it look that cheap.

Who's going to charge the taxpayer (county or state) more for doing the work? The govt or a big private trapping co? This conversation is like watching a dog chase it's tail!

I think most of the posters here feel that the govt shouldn't be paying for beaver control. Or they should call a fur trapper to remove the beaver. For $5 a hide. Makes sense

update....I didn't call their office, I have good sets farther from the road than they do....I know his Belisles are illegally set ( for me anyways) since Wed....now about 70% out of water

You don't seem to be reading well. USDA is not coming in and under bidding to get these jobs. They do work agreements with the State or the Counties with no competative bidding necessary.

That's exactly how It works. There Is no competitive bidding for these jobs.

Your not comprehending very well. I didn't say the USDA was bidding. I was comparing a big control outfit to under bidding a private sector and you all would still be butt hurt cause no private trapper is allowed in there.

I clearly understand how the USDA works. I have very close ties to people who work for them. USDA out here is a program for farmers and ranchers, so they don't have to pay big bucks, to protect their assets. They want their counties to use their taxes to help protect land and livestock. Anything outside of agriculture here is done by a bid. Birds at factories, beavers for public power canals, or in state owned ROW. The program isn't free for the taking for non agriculture base companies. Those are private entities that contact USDA for a, you ready for it, a BID. There are private companies out here that get the job because they come in lower.

Now as far as government lands, which I think you are all complaining about, I'm not sure how that works. But it's their choice and probably easier to keep it inner agency.

Excuse me but you said, "It's no different than if a private company comes in and under bids you and gets the job." And I was pointing out that it is completely different, since there is NO competative bidding at all.

So, we have one government agency, MNDNR (or WIDNR or whatever) spending our game and fish licence dollars,(hunting, fishing, trapping, ricing), duck stamp funding, Ducks unlimited money, to pay a Federal Agency that we also subsidise with our tax money, to do a job that I can do as efficently and probably cheaper, but we'll never know because I don't even get a chance to bid on the project.

But that's supposed to be ok because it is probably "easier" for the bureaucrats to keep in interagency?

Y’all could always become USDA trappers, then problem solved.

This has become a contentious thread.

I don't think USDA traps in my county, so I don't have much to add.

I apologize and that situation stinks. This whole time I thought is was the USDA agency that was being bashed. That sounds like the Department of Natural Resources. I have no knowledge of that government agency.

It takes two to tango

They probably have 2x as many traps to keep up with as you do, at least.

I wonder if they have issue with theft, seeing as they put out those signs

The bottom line is if your a Township or Country it's easier to use USDA/aphis, not necessarily cheaper, but easier. Sign a contract in the spring, then have one number to call with individual complaints, no advertising, bidding, etc. If Aphis only trapped beaver damaging roads, crops, forestland it wouldn't be quite so bad, but when the spend all summer trapping trout streams and their tributaries they are having a drastic impact on the local population. It sucks for trappers especially when beaver are worth good money.

No matter how one tries to rationalize it, it's private contractors having to compete with government agencies for contracts.

It's the exact opposite of capitalism in a free market economy.



And Get paid 15 dollars an hour for skilled labor? Yea right.

Funny seeing this thread...... I have been trapping an area in the north zone and seeing these USDA signs at some spots I wanted to trap. Today It got me frustrated enough to give the number a call to vent with being a WI resident who pays for the privilege to trap and having to complete with state/Fed hired trappers. The person I spoke to at USDA was willing to hear out my concerns and then took my name/number to pass along to the trapper in the area I was trapping. The trapper called me a short while later and was willing to pull sets from any area I wanted to trap. I'm currently winding things down so I did not request any action but will likely do so early next season.

Those USDA trappers get paid whether they catch anything or not. LOL

You must think all you have to do is ask Try it see if you get a reply