FHA first update

Pretty happy with how internet sale went. I know there is still some backroom dealing (PT) going on. 41 beaver averaged $23.00. Castor is not posted yet, so that average will go up. The two back yard coyotes I caught off of my carcass pile averaged $36.00. Disappointed in otter however. They are too beautiful to sell for a $15.00. I try to avoid catching them, but still caught my limit of three this spring.

That’s about a 500% better than folding them in half and freezing. In terms of investments you just hit a home run.

Thats a great average, what size was the smallest beaver you shipped?

Also, better than I expected. My 3 eastern coyotes avg. $50.33, my 2 sable avg. $29.25. Biggest disappointment 11 fisher sold for an avg. $14.36. Sold 4 beaver avg. $13.88, 2 of them LG SELECT HVY BRN sold for $18 a piece.
Red and grey fox, bobcat, castor, and 5 fisher have yet to be sold.

Castor is not part of the auction. It is almost always sold privately.

Fisher were offered/sold on Saturday. Red fox sold first thing this morning. Grey fox are selling right now.

Coon up next. Then bobcat.

Any movement at all on reds or greys wissmiss ?

I averaged $16 something on 11 beaver that I had left over from last year. I had one 3X-2X SELECT HVY BRN that sold for $36.00 and a 1X SELECT SEMI that went for $20. The rest were lesser grades and went cheap. I have a bunch more ready to send now. With some really big, heavy skins. Probably could do about as good on the lesser stuff selling here, but the good stuff will always do way better at FHA. I'll just send it all...

Both items struggled. More interest in reds than greys. Prices were nothing to cheer about.

Coon are selling now. First lot sold for $20.00. I have no idea what section that was. I could look it up but I don’t care, so I probably won’t. LOL

The first raccoon lot in the catolog was Canadian section. For those who do care

That’s odd on the otter.
Prices have advanced some in the country. I thought they would there as well.
I was offered $23 nose count on a little over 80 otter 6 weeks ago. The buyer called last week and offered me $32 nose count. Sounds like I should let them go lol

So when do they update accounts for this sale? LLL

Mine was updated sometime overnight for beaver, coyote and otter. Then the pt sales for those species showed up as well.

I had 44 beaver avg just over $11. Spring beaver from last year, mostly slights. The gd dmg didn't sell at all.

In May 2013 my XXL slights averaged $51. This sale $13.

Well you were going for clearance right?

They are on page 28 of 50 in the raccoon catalog. It looks as though there will be plenty of raccoon available for the July sale.

Coyote: avg 30
Rats: Avg 4.88
Beaver: Avg 15.48
Otter: Avg 13.00

Sold half my beaver, half my Otter, all my rats, all my coyotes.

True avg for me with the bad to the selects. Eastern coyotes mostly semi's but some selects. 50 Rats from first string down to badly damaged. Over 40 beaver,, you get the idea....

Clearances where up, maybe price will follow next sale.

I sold 11/18 Beaver that I had there, average of $17.25 with a high of $38 and low of $8.50. The beaver were all late winter/early spring 2020 frozen all Summer and prepared in Nov./Dec.
All 3 of my otter sold, 2@ $19.00, 1@ $16.00.
I sent up 8 Fall Rats that averaged $4.84 with a high of $5.90 low of $3.50. (wish I would have had more)
I had two Med/Lrg. Fisher, both sold $12.00.

Most of my Mink continue to remain unsold, but the ones that did went for less than $2.00 which is definitely disappointing.

What grade and size otter did that poorly? I only had 2 held over that went for 26 each.

May I ask what your coyotes graded? Or was $30 a typo?

Looked at my account and coyotes were updated from auction, rats from prior PT sales. This was on un-sold carry over fur from last year.

Dave

3X-2X SELECT HVY C-D 1-2 1 $73.00
3X-2X I-II HVY C-D 1 $56.00
3X-2X I-II SEMI C-D1 $26.00
3X-2X II SEMI C-D 1 $23.00
3X-2X II SEMI C-D 4 $23.00
3X-2X II & SLT LT A-B1 $11.0
1X-LG I SEMI C-D 1 $23.00
3X-2X I SEMI C-D 1 $30.00

I'm actually rooting for beaver prices to stay suppressed. Too high and extra harvesting will bring the castor price down. Pelts are just a side product for me these days.

1X-LG SELECT DK-DK BRN

Same grade as mine.

Lot 40042 went 26.00 each.

Oops mine were dk brown-brn

These went PT after last sale......

40033 1X-LG SELECT XDK-DK Unsold to be re-offered
40057 1X-LG SELECT DK-DK BRN Unsold to be re-offered
40058 1X-LG SELECT DK-DK BRN Unsold to be re-offered

My remaining Otter wanted to hang out till next sale.

Ok I gotcha. Those weren’t on this auction then. That last one was brutal. Had 2x selects go for 20.

SABLE
LOT# DESCRIPTION STOCK # QTY PRICE EXTENDED
39813 2X I DK BRN-BRN 9403177 2 $40.00 $80.00

Average: $40.00 Sold: 2 Unsold: 0 SubTotal $80.00

Thing is it's been years since I sent anything in; ever since the market crashed. Tell the truth I didn't even know I had anything in their freezer......!

Bad man Carl! Lol

So Wissmiss, what is the deal with the bobcats? I had some holdovers on there and they were all saying "unsold to be reoffered" this morning, before you said the bobcats had even came on the sale. Either I'm too computer illetirate (very possible) or sellers can't see what is currently being sold and has already went on the block on their website.

I know I sold all mine this year on the ITA sale and they went pretty hot, so I expected at least some to sell on the FHA, or are the buyers not willing to bid on cats via an internet sale?

Does that mean it was in Canadian dollars???

Askin 4 a friend.

Nope. In capital red letters it sez all sales reported in US dollars.

R the red an grey fox updated on our accts yet?

My spring beaver averaged close to what my coyotes did. That seems a little strange to me. No updates on the fox yet.

Bearcat2 - I don’t have an answer to your question. I can only speculate. What you are looking at is the shippers accounting. I’m assuming the unsold to be reoffered is left over from the August sale. If you check your account now and refresh the screen, you might see something different. If it still says that, check again in the morning and refresh the screen again.

I have no idea when or how often they update shipper accounts. I would assume once a day but I don’t know for sure.

I also don’t know what catalog shippers can see. I assume it is a static catalog that doesn’t change. But again, I don’t know for sure.

I see the buyers catalog that shows which lots sold for how much and to what buyer number. The buyer numbers are confidential. The buyers catalog updates every few seconds, as lots sell. I think the lots close 20 seconds apart.

Also, I had no interest in bobcats and thus did not watch that part of the sale. Nor have I checked the bobcat catalog recently to see what was what. I was more focused on the ranch fox, which sold right after the bobcats.

Wish I could be more help but that is the best I can do.

The confusion comes from the terminology used on the shippers sale summary. Every lot listed says unsold to be re-offered. It does not matter if it is fresh goods on their first sale, pt that has already sold but not updated, or actural unsold goods from previous sales. They could really use some updating.

Walleye101 - that explains a few things. At least to me. Thanks

Checked my account a few minutes ago and my four western Oregon bobcats from 2020 sold. $49 avg They had graded XL-L, HVY C-D bellies.

Well mine finally updated after 10 tonight. They held my best two and sold the other three. One was a L II Slt that has been on there for three years. Sold for a whopping $16! Other two were not great cats, both 1X HVY BLU the one with a B belly sold for $150 and the one with a B-C belly sold for $152 *scratches head*. Without looking at my paperwork I think it is about what I turned down for them last year before I sent them to FHA, the two good cats (1X and 3-2X HVY Pale with A and A-B bellies) didn't sell. Not nearly what I got for cats on the Idaho sale this year, but about what I turned down for these particular cats last year.


Thanks Wiss Miss.

I suspect that buyers are unwilling to buy the high dollar cats without inspecting them in person, but that is just my suspicion, I don't have anything to back it up.

I think you are 100% correct about buyers wanting to see the big money cats in person before they bid.

The buyers bidding catalog has a picture of most of the lots, showing the bellies. Nicely done pics but not seeing the pelt itself hurts the bidding.

At the April 2020 on line sale, they didn’t have any pics. That was like buying a pig in a poke on items like cats, wolves, wolverine, fox, etc.

Would you care to share your lot numbers with me? I would like to look at the pics. Either post here or send them in a PM. Thanks

PM sent.

I can't imagine as a buyer bidding online for furs without any pictures. I mean if I personally knew and trusted the grader I might call up and say I need X number of Y grade beaver, but for furs like cats or wolverines where there are patterns in the fur that will be worked with, designed around, and matched to other hides? Then when you start talking about furs that are worth hundreds to sometimes thousands of dollars per pelt those lots of 25 skins become a serious gamble without inspecting. I don't blame the buyers for not forking over the dough on an internet sale.

In my mind FHA should have shipped the fur somewhere the buyers could inspect it if Ontario is being that jackbooted. Even if they had to split the sale up because whatever facility they rented wasn't as big and and couldn't hold all the fur at once, I believe they would have come out ahead by running a couple sales back to back at an inspectable facility as they would have on an internet sale. At least for the high dollar and variable furs, things like rats probably will go fine on an internet sale as long as the buyers trust the graders. One time of the buyer getting in a shipment of fur that wasn't what he expected by the grade posted and he is going to be looking elsewhere unless he can get it dirt cheap.

Where would they ship it too bearcat? Remember a few years ago the FBI issued warrants for quite a bunch of foreign buyers. Seems they were colluding (illegally) on the prices to be paid. So the auction was moved from Seattle to Canada so no one would be arrested.

That has not been very many years ago. Surely I'm not the only one who remembers that.

Yup. I remember.

So you're saying collusion is ok in Canada?

Apparently. FWIW I didnt break the story. I just read about it. Hard to believe you never read about it walleye

There is a big problem with shipping high dollar fur to someplace buyers could inspect in person.

All of Canada is closed, not just Ontario. So where would they ship the cats. US?

Bobcats are a CiTES species. That requires special permits and inspections to ship across borders. That would be one set of permits and inspections to get the cats from North Bay to say Chicago. Then another set of permits and inspections to get them back to North Bay.

If the cats sold and some of them were bought by US buyers, then it is another set of permits and inspections to get the pelts back into the US.

After the August sale, it took almost 2 months for Canadian F&W to issue permits. Having to do 2 sets of permits could take forever.

Another option - hold the better goods until buyers can travel to North Bay. Then the shippers don’t get ,paid.

FHA is stuck between a rock and a hard place. At least they are trying to sell fur.

Yup, I remember. The only person arrested was a major US broker.

The collusion took place at an FHA sale held at Seattle Fur Exchange. I was at that sale. The FBI interviewed a lot of people. The species involved was otter.

And I think it was more than “a few years ago”. Maybe like 20?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that any collusion charges would have expired by now (as have a number of buyers). It did pretty much kill the Seattle Fur Exchange, though.

Oh I'm not saying there wouldn't be issues, Wiss Miss. I'm sure there would be, on the other hand FHA isn't making any money on furs they are holding and loosing customers over it. . . and buyers, who are looking for other places to find high dollar goods. Frankly, with no signs of Canada showing any sort of sense about Covid, I don't know if they will open up in any sort of reasonable time for FHA to sell those goods. I know if I was FHA I would be looking at having future goods like that never shipped to Canada in the first place. I'd be looking for a spot either in the US or offshore to hold future auctions and be shipping CITES furs there rather than dealing with crossing borders multiple times with any non-Canadian goods.

I suspect FHA is likely to become a primarily Canadian only auction house if they survive and either Canada doesn't relent very soon or they don't change their operating practices. If another International auction manages to get off the ground in another country I expect it to happen very quickly. A lot of people were soured over the NAFA debacle, if FHA doesn't find a way to move furs that is acceptable to both buyers and sellers, and someone else does. . . well FHA probably won't go under right away, not unless they do something supremely stupid like NAFA, but they'll certainly be downsizing.

I've made no secret of my dislike of FHA, on the other hand I agree with Wiss Miss, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and at least they are still trying to sell fur.

I think they are a great thing to have around, and if I felt I could trust them I would use them more. We need a little more competition in the International fur auction business in my opinion.

I don't blame FHA for restrictions imposed by the Canadian government. I do think for their business' sake they should look into working around those restrictions.

Lots of additional expenses for the options you’ve suggested. And all for 2-3 sales per year. Anything is possible.

You guys have short memories-FHA held sales in Helsinki-they went to the buyers-it was not cost effective when the market dropped.
There was no benefit-better to remain in the heart of the fur production area and sell from there.
Moving raw furs across borders is no good-too much red tape.Even for myself,moving tanned fur or manufactured articles across one border is a pain-especially with some species.Easier for me to deal right in the jurisdiction where the fur originates.More than enough customers anyway.
Better for the auction to sell in Canada and let the buyers deal with their various governments.
One of the biggest problems in the fur industry is red tape in moving goods around the world.

When will the border open up? People are getting vaccinated. About time for zombie virus fears to return to normal and borders open up. Now is the time to plan for the upcoming season. Are the buyers going to be allowed in or not? Government has sure put brakes on the economies of the world. I am getting sick of it.

With cat trapping over in CA. Severely curtailed in AZ and CO. Bag limits in UT. No nonresidents in MT or NV, good cats will be scarce. They are still popular with the ladies. Cat prices should be soaring not dropping.


poaching is about to get rampant

North Bay may be the heart of Canadian fur production but certainly NOT North American fur production.

Take a look a map!!!

It certainly is.
Especially with the guaranteed fur contracts with the northern native governments
Go over to the other FHA thread and read Saskflys link-old article but explains FHA structure and position.
One of their biggest advantages is being located at the heart of fur production.

Well I wonder if they will PT the rest of my coon for even less now. They sold a total of three coon out of the 245 I had left there. LLL

The big problem is a big government that gets their nose in everything and in everyone's business. LLL

I was actually thinking of the Helsinki sales when I wrote that. Didn't mention them because a lot of Europe is Covid crazy and I was assuming that included Finland.

Oh and Boco, better check the origin of the majority of the skins on FHA sales, pretty sure they are US not Canadian. I know of the four CITES furs commonly sold (bobcat, lynx, otter, and wolf) that two of them, bobcat and otter are vast majority US. Would be less headache to sell those furs in the US without ever exporting them if the export across country lines is so bad they would rather not deal with it. They used to do that with the Seattle Fur Exchange also.