Doing new windows and playing the Axe man

Well, putting out calls in the morning for 21 new windows in my home. I've done a ton of research and have developed a list of questions I will ask any salesman giving me estimates. I'm going to be spending a ton of money here, more than some people make in a year, so I have some rules.
1. A salesman has a 15minute time limit to get to my home from when he says he will be there or he gets the door slammed in his face. Sorry, my time is valuable to me and if he can't be on time, his company probably sucks and I will let them know that this is why they have lost my consideration.
2. Hit me with some limited time offer BS and you are out of my home. I want a rock bottom price not a gimmick. Utter those words, you and your company are toast.
3. Come back at me with a discount and you're gone. Sounds odd but I want the rock bottom price. If you call me a week later and offer me 10% more off, you are not to be trusted. You could have given me that price at the beginning and we might have had a deal.
4. Use subcontractors and you will not even be considered. No matter your price.
5. I want references and prefer addresses of homes you have installed windows on. No references, no job.
These are just the top five reasons for booting a contractor. (I used to be one years ago) and not close to the list of questions I'll be asking the salesman. These are just a couple off my sheet and a few expectations. The salesman I will really grill. A lot of money being spent here and I will get what I pay for. I'll except and expect nothing less.

I'd tell you to install your own GD windows with that attitude.

Not that you can't demand those things but your demands don't in and of themselves ensure you are getting the best job or price.

Happen to own a company that is a subcontractor for Lowe's and Pella. Everyday I get a facebook advert saying to become a sub for Anderson. Using subs for install is kind of the way of the big boys. Shoot, a lot of the time the salesman is 1099. You aren't going to know the difference.

Also a distributor for a window manufacturer. So I know what a window costs and what the markup is. I don't disagree with you that the discount or special offer game is annoying but you kind of have to do that because everyone else is.

You can win your philosophical battle and still not get the best window or price or warranty.

If you are that concerned why not do the job yourself? Windows are pretty easy to replace. You will save a bunch of money too.

Finster

I have always agreed with most of your posts, but. As a contractor f I encountered someone with a upfront message like yours or an thought of that’s what I am getting into, I would not even bother quoting. I would rather work for someone that appreciated the value and usually if a customer starts out thoughts like yours there will be other issues. Not saying you don’t have some vaild beliefs, but when I work for someone i want there to be a fair mutual a partnership that we will both gain from.

I would suggest you forget all of that and listen and give them fair time even if their late, and play the price game, and then when your writing out the check to order you can use your values on who to spend your money with. You might find the guy that was late was best value and might be late because he was held up trying to give an extra effort for one of his customers

I was a contractor for years and had my own business although I never dealt with windows. Never wanted to and always gave that call to someone else. Hey, it's my money, it's good money and I expect the craftsmanship and professionalism I would have given my customers for the kind of money that I will be putting out. If they don't want that work and can't handle doing a good job, they don't need to bid. Simple as that. I could buy a new car, at least, for what windows are going to cost. I'm a great guy to work for as long as you do your job. I ask and expect nothing less and I do not see where I'm being hard to work with. These are basic principals please tell me how this is harsh?

I'm sorry, you must be under the impression that I would even allow a Canuck on my property? Well, maybe to clean the septic tank but that's about it. Certainly not to do anything that would take an ounce of skill.

I don't necessarily this your viewpoint is harsh and it's certainly your money and you can set the stipulations under which you are willing to spend it. Just pointing out that your stipulations might prevent you from getting the best price, window, or warranty.

Even shady crooks can be on time, have the lowest price, and tell you everything you want to hear. Make your best choice then pay attention. A good contractor never wants a bad deal or unhappy customer...

I would likely pick up on your attitude on the phone and would come up with a reason not to quote your project. There are way to many awesome customers out there that appreciate good products and service without being treated like they are doing me a favor by using me.

too many good people out there for a contractor to work for....jackwagons get weeded out immediately

Let's see. My attitude?
1. Be on time
2. Quote me the real price and don't play games
3. Install windows with your own people not some fly by night sub contractor.
4. Give me references.
Well, if you consider that having a bad attitude, you wouldn't be allowed down the driveway.

Sounds like you're not getting new windows.

A quote for window replacement over the phone. Hahaha
That's what you really want?
I deal with people like you from time to time.
I simply double the price.

Good luck

What are you even talking about? Who is getting quotes over the phone?

So I read your post wrong.

I'd still double the cost with a hidden fee in the contract
Just for you.

Because your special

Gee, that would work. You're so tricky.

Finster,
From the words you used in your posts (a lot about the money) it seems you should just keep your money you hold so dear and forget the windows.
Once that cash is gone, I predict you'll wish you had it back.

You have rules and so do I. I’d fire you before you would hire me.

Sounds to me that you're the type of guy that rips off everyone he has ever dealt with since those 4 things upset you so much.

SSSSSick em Finster.
Bet I'm not the only one curious to know who the lucky winner of this contract is lol.
Be sure and second guess their every move.

I know I know, shut up lol.

Right now demand is so high in this area that you are lucky to find a reliable contractor that's not already booked for the year let alone one willing to jump through hoops. Good luck in your quest.

If you're paying for quality windows you also probably want a quality installation. A decent contractor already knows going in what he can or will do it for. I haven't known you to be a hothead but you sure seem to have your hackles up on this one.

I find it amazing that people think I'm a hothead for wanting a quality job done by a contractor that is legit and will do the job I pay him for correctly. If it was anyone elses money they were spending on their home they would want the same thing I assume. I don't know, maybe they don't?

well Boco is out

true between nearly unobtanium for materials and everyone wanting to hire work right now.

there is a fair price but no rock bottom , fair shouldn't move

ordering the windows , my wife works for a millwork plant , they don't do windows but do doors , order today and you might have your door before first frost in October that really is how far out everyone is booked right now.

FInster as long as you let them know upfront your expectations I think you are being fair , salesmen are like bilge water necessary at times but really discussing for the most part.

I'm interested to hear how this goes for you Finster. I too am in the process of getting new windows for my house. As you said, it's costly! I can speak for myself in saying that I'm having a very hard time even getting a contractor to come out and give me a quote let alone dream of someone that would meet all of your stipulations. Contractors in my area are backed up for months and maybe even over a year. If I had a list of requirements that mirrored yours, I'd be off of their year-long wait list and they would tell me to do it myself. I'm not saying that your stipulations are ridiculous, they appear fair. But, in my case anyhow and in the current world we're living in.....beggars can't be choosers.

Well, I have 4 different companies scheduled for next week. I'll see how this pans out. A couple companies I called only deal in vinyl so they are out of the question. Vinyl sucks! Two companies I called didn't make it past my phone call. When the person on the other end of the line cannot speak English or understand the basic English language, they are not even getting out of the gate. I speak English, not Spanish, Hindy and not Ebonics! Guess it's to much to ask for companies to put a professional sounding person on their phone these days? If they can't get that simple issue right, they aren't ripping into my home.

I wouldn't hold out on any deals or best price options. The contractors are very much in the drivers seat right now. The good contractors around here are turning down work or are booked out until next spring. I think that the contractors are fully aware of what you expect as is every other customer they deal with. My dad has stopped quoting anything that can't wait until June 2022 and he is still quoting 6-10 jobs a week. He told me last week that he could raise his prices to match the demand and still get all the work that he can handle but won't gouge the customer like his competitors have started doing. I would assume that any good contractor giving you a bid probably feel the same way.

Like Learch said my old man would pick up the attitude on the phone and politely decline a quote. Just relax and hire the guy you feel most comfortable with. Your not going to like the price either way and based on your post probably not the window either. Your going to have to pay for a quality window. I would pay a premium for a good window and service and it's possibly from your post that you just want the cheapest no matter who or what they install.

Not saying it true just the perception. GOOD LUCK

Like I said before and I'll say it again. Call your Renewal Rep. They will come out and price everything for you. Yes they will have a sub do the work but then they are on the hook for that sub so you can bet they will be good. And you will also have the best window for that hard earned money.

This is going to be fun. Please update us next week after your four meetings. Assuming you find someone desperate enough to take the job, please keep updating us through the process.

They are coming next Wednesday.

I just heard a squeal of tires and saw a puff of smoke. There was a car burning tire trying to catch up to an ambulance. You should really drive more carefully.

Finster, you mentioned that you're not a fan of vinyl windows. Why is this? I was considering vinyl. We currently have wood that were likely installed in the early 1990's and they're all discolored, bleached, and starting to rot. They are Marvin, which is a quality window. I was thinking we wouldn't have this problem with vinyl.

You have rules and so do I. I’d fire you before you would hire me.[/quote] Sounds to me that you're the type of guy that rips off everyone he has ever dealt with since those 4 things upset you so much.
[/quote]

Actually been in the custom cabinet business for 24 years with the same company. If I were dishonest with my clients it would have caught with me long ago. Don’t listen to me listen to everyone else coonman jr.

I think the 4 rules Finster laid out make a lot of sense... while we don't necessarily deliver them so bluntly, they are expectations of ours from any subs quoting us work and certainly not unreasonable when large sums of money are up for consideration.

Finster, I would not necessarily discount any manufacturers who sub their install right away, many vendors entire company is structured on a subcontracted installation basis for a lot of good reasons. The key would be to get references for the subcontractor as well.

You mentioned no vinyl... are you looking at high performance aluminum or wood... or something else?

Years ago, around 1999 or so, I worked for a window company that made small vinyl windows for glass block. I know how they are made, what goes into them and I know enough to know that they are inferior. In addition, I have vinyl's on my home now, all of them are broken in one way or another, Mostly the welds on them. Could they be repaired? I'm sure I could repair them and in fact, I will probably keep these old windows. They would be good for the garage I want to build, maybe replace the ones in my shop which are even worse windows, they would be good for a deer stand or even a hunting cabin. I may give them to friends that have projects or sell some of them after I fix them. In any event. I would like aluminum clad wood or I'm even entertaining fiberglass and wood. It will all come down to cost I suppose. I'm trying to stay under $20,000

Under $20,000? Is that including labor to install or just the windows? $20,000 for everything with the number of windows you are replacing sounds pretty cheap. We were quoted around $12,000 for labor, 13 windows and a sliding door.

This is comedy gold, right here. Seriously made me laugh.

I deal exclusively with locals on everything, including something like this.

Around $950 a window installed. I wouldn't say that's "cheap" exactly.

This is what I was thinking. Do some research on them and you will get the same job done for a good bit less money. Well, for most people. We have way over bid jobs thinking there was no way they would take the bid. Then they did. Turns out the other contractors wouldn't even give them a bid because of their attitude.

Others would make you lunch and even bring out a beer at the end of the day.

Chillax Finster

Comng in hot will run any smart contractor off .

Anyone willing to roll the dice on you will charge you double

Have you considered doing them yourself ? I've seen your work and I'm sure you could handle it .

You've got time in-between your tours of duty , don't you ?

Also have you considered the possibility you may have to paint both the interior and exterior of your home when the project is completed ?

There are alot of different scenarios and options with your trim replacement but I'm guessing you don't want it half arsed

Since you used the phrase "rock bottom" multiple times in your post, it's clear you're looking for cost versus quality, and you'll probably get what you pay for. That fits with your plan to only use companies who sell and install windows. Around here the brand installers are the worst as far as craftsmanship, but hey they're also the cheapest so you'll get what you want. Maybe it's different there. Personally I'd rather use a salesman to sell me windows and hire a good carpenter to install them. If you want a salesman to do your carpentry, have at it. Most high-quality contractors aren't interested in bidding "rock bottom" work anyway.

What exactly is it you hate about vinyl? That it lasts forever, can be painted any color with the house, and is intrinsically sealed? Are you going with metal that corrodes or wood that fades and weathers?

In any case, I'm looking forward to your posts in 2 years griping about your crappy window installation

Well, you're clueless on the average sales pitch. Salesmen are only one step above lawyers on the scum of the earth scale. Here's a window, it's $1000 but if you buy it right now it's $650. You say no and he knocks off another $25 y0u say no and the next day he calls and tells you $600 and so on. I don't have time for such games and I'm also out of time explaining myself to you.

Exactly my thoughts!
I’ve had customers with attitudes from the get go as well, and basically told them politely I didn’t need their
attitude or their business. Good craftsmen always have more work than they can do. No reason to put up with the BS.

WOW! I never thought this thread would hurt so many feelings. Guess I'm a just a big meanie wanting quality for my money. Sure are a bunch of snowflakes around these days. Used to be real men around that would talk direct and to the point with no BS. Guess those days are gone and everyone needs coddled these days. People can't even take blunt, direct talk anymore. what a world of sissies.

Finster got his feeling hurt.

And he needs coddled

Fin, I agree with you 99% of the time. This is the 1% that I do not agree with you. I was going to give more info but I can see that you have not intentions of listening to anyone that responds to you. You will either pay more than you need to or you will learn to like the windows that you have.

Nope, just amazed at how many sissies call themselves men these days. No wonder guys are walking around in dresses and people accept it. People just can't handle blunt, direct honesty anymore. It's really pathetic. Sorry if I hurt someones wittle feelwings.

So you disagree with the 4 points that I stated? Ok. what would you expect? What if it was your 20 grand? What would you put up with to get a contractor?

I built my house and a few others. Did every other job on a house that you can think of. The benefits of having a Dad who was a contractor. Did that for 10+ years and then on the side for 10. after that I have been just helping friends and family.

Dude, put your big boy pants on and man up. Take the advise that has been given to you. Use it or go with your original plan. Calling everyone a 'snowflake' that doesn't agree with you doesn't work in political threads and it doesn't work on this one.

Being blunt isn't a problem, being arrogant is.

I don't see Finster being a dink?
Its his $. Being blunt right outta the gate may keep the dinks away.

As for hating on Vinyl windows well, they have come ALONG ways from 20 years ago.

We

This advise is spot on.

Maybe you just need some glass cleaner

This guys improve game is top notch. Why he is not a well paid comedian I am not sure. I would have bought one just for the entertainment.

This was over 20 years ago but I remember a window salesman coming to my parent's house one time. After a his presentation on how great the windows were he quoted them a price of $12,000.00 for the job. Dad declined and the guy went out to his car to call his boss. Came back with a lower number. Dad still wasn't interested. Finally before he left he gave a quote of $4000.00. Dad passed on that as well.

Finster, I'm with you on the sales gimmicks. Unlike you, I just don't play the games. I don't say, "what's your rock bottom price." If someone names 2 different prices, I say thanks for your time.
I deal with professional dealers who give me competitive written quotes. One number, no gimmicks, take it or leave it. That's the way I do business. It sounds like you're intentionally dealing with salesmen who use gimmicks, and not enjoying it. Find a professional window shop.

Finster's art of the deal would make a book with very few pages. Not necessarily a bad thing.
I still say the money theme is a tad on the heavy side.
It's just money.
Worth less and less all the time.
And right now there is no my way or the highway in the trades arena.
Companies can't get supplies and EVERYTHING is more expensive (thank you Covid).

Finster, you play hard ball with a gruff attitude with the salesperson of your dreams, they'll walk before they get a pen out.
That only leaves the idiots to deal with.
Remember, it's only money and you need windows.

Blessings,
Mark