Defense of marriage act

Signed into law by Dem president B. Clinton. Marriage will only be accepted as one man and one woman. Same sex marriage shall not be recognized. Today the dems are back pedaling and want to acknowledge same sex marriage. Oh the hypocrisy. It never stops.

It is never ending

Why should government be involved in marriage at all?

Impossible to legislate parenthood or morals in general. Its taught in the home or at one time church and/or school, but we can't lease the kids out for a moral transplant.

The supremes said some time back that gay marriage is legal in all 50 states. They are not backpeddling. Its a non issue.

The U.S. government may recognize gay marriage, but me and my house don't.

I do not believe you are alone in that Mr Staton. I dont see the harm myself except POSSIBLY for the people involved and I doubt the odds of harm are any greater than in a traditional marriage.

Taxes of course. Married couples get taxed at a lower rate than single people.

Why should the government be involved in theft?

They sell PERMITS to ALLOW you to get married!

When is the government not involved in theft?

Because the equitable sharing of women has and will lead to peaceful cultures, Children from two parent households tend to have many fewer issues and a higher percentage of them tend to be responsible citizens.

Why would the Govt not incentivize the institution that has proven to make peaceful cultures and responsible citizens?

Its always about what is politically convenient rather than actual values.

You can go back in history, the democrats and even southern dixiecrats were for slavery, they were racist, and were the ones quilty of oppression. The Republican party was formed in Ripon WI to combat it. Its all a search away. Historical facts.

Do you and your household recognize straight couples that are having sex but not married, or straight couples that are divorced and remarried? Both are just as sinful as homosexual relationships.

I've never gotten a good answer when I asked that. Lots of mutterings and umms and ahhs.

Straight couples can repent, get married, and be in the right. Homosexuals cannot. Divorce depends upon the reason for the divorce. Under no circumstances can a homosexual couple be "married" and it not be a sin. According to scripture.

You subsidize or incentivize beneficial actions in society in order to promote and encourage them for the long term betterment and stability of society.

There is zero reason to incentive homosexual marriages. They do not produce children so the stability of the two parent household does not come into play. Gay marriages do not create an expansionist society with less infighting like straight marriages have proven to, in fact I would say it has done the opposite as the bar has been continually moved and now we have "drag queen story hour" in schools and libraries, that along with other Trans issues has driven a wedge in society that needed not exist.

Just wrong, this world is just to much. Crazy stuff that goes on very ends.

Do you refuse to recognize it accept a couple living together or even just having sex together until they get married? Do you ask a divorced and remarried straight couple why they divorced before you decide if you can accept them or not? If either of them divorced for any reason besides adultery, there is no way for them to be married and not in sin. Anyone who divorced and remarries for any reason besides adultery, commits adultery with their new spouse.

Recognize it as a sin and dang sure don't get on the computer and defend sin as you are doing. Maybe you should change your handle to Sugarinthetank.

Where did I defend sin? Point it out for me. Maybe quote it. To ahead. Show us all where I said that something sinful isn't sinful.


And you still didn't really answer the question.....do you and your family recognize couples that are divorced and remarried for reasons other than sexual immorality in the previous marriages?

Can't answer your question because I know not the heart of those remarried. Unlike you, I don't judge to condemnation.
Homosexuality is a sin, period. Unless repentance occurs and the homosexual does turn from his/her ways they condemn themselves.
Your questions imply the defense of gay marriage and it's obvious to everyone but yourself.

There is a simple fix for that. Have her stoned to death and then you will be free to marry again.

No need for extremes just have multiple wifes. There are several examples of this occurring.

Says who?

In my opinion, the difference is that someone who has been divorced and remarried, or a couple that lives in sin and eventually gets married, are able to be forgiven for those sins and start anew. That doesn't seem possible with a homosexual couple, for each day they choose to sin again. When Jesus forgave the adulteress, he told her to go and SIN NO MORE. Homosexual couples make the conscious decision to sin again each day.

Jesus said that if a man divorces his wife except for sexual immorality and married another woman, he commits adultery with her. Every single day that couple wakes up married, they are commiting adultery. If that couple is aware of what the bible says about divorce and remarriage, then they make the conscious decision every single day to continue to live in sin. They consciously decide every day to live in opposition to one of the 10 commandments. The only cure for that sin is for that couple to dissolve their marriage.

And J Station, I see you can't show anywhere that I've defended sin
I'm glad we were able to clear that up.

There are benefits of being married.

LG I simply stated my belief in the biblical definition of marriage but you attempt to deflect with a line of questions pertaining to adultery. So this leads to reason you are attempting to defend gay marriage. Jesus also said that if you look upon a woman with lust you are also guilty of adultery. I'm guilty as charged. If I'm bound by the law I'm condemned as are we all. Good thing there's Grace.

So you are saying that if a woman is married to a druggie and he beats her constantly and there is no adultery, then she can't get a divorce and just has to take the beatings or wait til he kills her ?

Paul lived with a "thorn in the flesh" that an emissary of Satan used to buffet him. Paul asked God to remove it three times but God said his grace was sufficient. That thorn might have been lust, we don't know.

Who isn't tempted to lust? As the saying goes, you can't keep a bird from landing in your hair but you can keep it from building a nest there. Homosexuality can be conquered.

Not at all. She's free to divorce, or move out and not live with the husband. But she's not free to get married again.

I'm just trying to understand why Christians (among whom I count myself) tend to make such a big deal of certain sins, but not others.

David sinned with Bathsheba, I assume you know the story. Look what it cost a man after God's own heart.

I know the story of David and Bathsheba well.

I'm just trying to comprehend why we make such a big deal of certain sins like homosexuality and not others. I mean, if gay marriage shouldn't be legal, why shouldn't divorce and remarriage.be illegal as well? If gay marriage causes societal problems, doesn't adultery cause social problems as well? Lots and lots of kids (like me) grow up in households with divorce, without both biological parents present, and it causes a lot of hurt for.those kids, same as if they grow up with 2 dudes for parents. Yet, never in my life, have I ever heard anyone, christian or otherwise, say that divorce and remarriage should be illegal, yet I've heard more than I can count say gay marriage should be illegal. Why is that? Why one and not the other? If we're all about preserving the sanctity and holiness of marriage (and we should be), why shouldn't both gay marriage AND adulterous remarriage be illegal?


Why not expand the Definition of Marriage Act to define marriage as not only one man one.woman, but also first marriages only, except in cases of sexual immorality?

Loosegoose I think you are proving why one can't legislate moral codes and why church and school can't any longer be depended on to do that for the parent. The perverts and their grooming techniques have infiltrated even the things which were once sacred ground. Such a commotion over the price of a dog?

I don't see any reason why church or government should have a say in who marries who.. Except maybe government can keep track who is where by what name..Don't want no one voting isn't registered in right district..
Seems to me couple just needs someone like Shelton Cooper to draw up a good marriage contract. Know guy tried to tell judge his wife violated their churches marriage contract when she cheated on him.. Didn't carry much weight she still got half his stuff. Maybe all any one really needs is good Prenup? Then when couple splits up can be different fight over who gets what who pays for what.

I have never agreed with the idea that couples should get tax breaks that single don't. Shouldn't be no deductions for having kids either. No reason single people should support someone else choice to raise munchkins..Pay higher taxes for someone else life choice..
As for morality of it?? Anyone can find a reason to think others are in violation their morality.. Your fishing in my special spot using live bait.. How dare you!
People need spend more time worrying about things have direct effect on them. Not worry about some perceived injustice to their morality.
Go back to watch more Walton's less 24 loop news..

Mac

Yes Mac a Prenup is not just something thought up by the lawyers just lately. It was used long ago and an example was in the Talmud where if a woman married a tanner and brought her dowry with her, then when she found out how bad he stunk, she had 6 months to annul the marriage and leave with her dowry. If she waited longer than the allotted time she could still leave but the dowry was his to keep.

I just believe that all sin is equal under the eyes of God but how that sin is dealt with depends on the person and circumstance. For there are some things that are out of our control because there will always be sin in the world no matter how much we try. And I am not saying we shouldn't stop fighting, all I am saying is that no matter what happens, God is in control. And though our country does seem to be going south, we should remember that this world is not our own, and that we shall suffer for his name's sake. Just look at history. You just don't know what will happen. So this is still not a smart idea for the government, but all we can do if it passes is warn those who do do this act and tell them the damage it can have in their lives.

"There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:10B

Marriage is a contract between two adults.

Government and Religion sit in the background hoping to bless and/or support it. Who needs them? Well, maybe to manage a dissolution. I see no other purpose to their involvement.

Maybe one other purpose. It give us an opportunity to argue which of the two is stupider.

Why SHOULD the government be involved in theft was the question. The fact that it's constantly involved in theft has no bearing on whether or not it should be.

Why does government need to be involved in the equitable sharing of women? Why would government need to incentivize anything? Might it be because government needs to control? Can't I get married without having Uncle Sam as an unwanted middleman?

Is the U.S. a peaceful culture? Is it full of responsible citizens?

I'm well aware of that. Why should they sell permits to allow me to get married? Why do I need their permission?

I still haven't.

I can't think of a good answer, other than, "They shouldn't.".

I, very much for the most part, don't care whatever adult people do with other consenting adult people. I don't care who they marry, who they screw, what animals they own, what they buy, what they eat, what substances they imbibe, how they dress, what they do to their bodies, how they keep their yard and house, what race they are, what religion they are, who they are friends with or anything else as long as they don't overly, negatively effect me.

Keith

Thats the problem-saying that crap dont affect me just lets it spread.
Gotta bring back the ducking stool.

Taxes
Control

Loosegoose -

I agree with you but also challenge you to show me the scripture that allows for re-marriage after a divorce. Divorce was only allowed due to the hardening of our hearts in adultery. Please help me find Gods word that allows any re-marriage other than death of a spouse.

If two dudes wanna get stuck together and be miserable like eveyone else then who cares ?

Yeah what happened to the whose separation of church and state ?

In Matthew 19 Jesus said that any man who divorced his wife except for sexual immorality and marries another woman commits adultery with her. That's usually interpreted to mean that marriage after divorce is only allowed I'd the divorce was due to a cheating partner.

I'd actually agree with you, though, that remarriage is only allowed after the death of a spouse. Marriage and courtship weren't the same back then as they are now, and I've read that the line from Jesus could be more accurately interpreted that breaking off an engagement was allowed due to sexual immorality, that the marriage could be called off before it was finalized, but that once things were finalized, that was it, it was a done deal. They didn't really do engagements back then like we do now, they pretty much just declared themselves married, but it wasn't a done deal until the wedding party. I'll do some looking and see if I can find where I read about it.

Hate crime legislation? It's no secret the left has tried to muzzle outspoken churches.

Found it..


Back before Jesus was born and before Mary and Joseph were married, Joseph found out that Mary was knocked up, and "decided in his mind to divorce her quietly" so that she wouldn't be embarrassed. But how could he divorce her if they weren't married yet? They were betrothed, basically considered married, even though they didn't have the big party, and weren't supposed to be sleeping together..But he could still divorce her, because he presumed that she had been unfaithful, until and angel told him otherwise. That's what Jesus was referring to when he said divorce was permitted due to sexual immorality.....betrothal could be broken off.

article

The right to believe or not believe, in any religion, including one you create yourself, is definitely a natural right.

It is not your right to impose your belief on others. If you can show harm to others because of a gay marriage it would be another story.

We all accept laws against stealing because theft harms people for example.

Don't we accept laws protecting stealing if government does it? Why do people look to government to either come up with or enforce morality, especially since more often than not it's as immoral (if not more so) as what it's against?

The "wE nEeD a LaW" mentality is a problem. It's okay to be against gay marriage (I am, I don't agree with any redefinition of marriage) while not trying to use the government as a club to beat others into submitting to your moral code. You may get further by posing reasonable objections (if they let you), than by use of force. Most likely, culture rot will continue either way.

"A republic, if you can keep it."

Franklin knew what he was talking about when he said that.

As for homosexuals, I'm pretty much on the same page as Keith. Makes no nevermind to me... But if that's the way you choose to live you have to deal with it. No special protections... Your boss finds out and fires you, that's the choice you made.

Mike

I think that you're assuming that the man who divorced his wife for a reason other than adultery remarried without first being forgiven for the sin of the divorce.

An unsaved woman marries an unsaved man. They divorce. Sometime afterwards this unsaved woman meets and marries a saved man. This saved man leads his unsaved woman to Christ. Should she divorce her current husband and remarry her former husband as not to live in adultery?

They should divorce and stay divorced. Would you rather they live in adulterous sin? Jesus said they're commiting adultery by marrying, it's not my words, it's his. God never wants us to sin, so he doesn't want us to live there n adultery.

You're reading way more into what was written here. The definition of betrothed is literally engaged. One of three definitions of divorce is to separate or disassociate yourself from someone or something. Joseph was engaged to Mary. He considered breaking the engagement, but of course changed his mind once God told him not to in a dream. AFTER the dream, he then took Mary home, as his wife.

It's not the previous divorce that needs to be forgiven I this situation, it's the choosing to live every single day in an adulterous relationship that's the issue. Jesus himself said that to do so is adultery. We may not like it, but that's the cold hard truth.

I don't agree. I think it is the sin of the divorce that CAUSES the next marriage to be adulterous. If the man repents for the divorce and is forgiven, I believe he would then have a clean slate.

Sorry, I edited my comment for clarity. But to your point, that's not what Jesus said. He didn't say it's okay as long as you repent. He said it's adultery, plain and simple.

What would be your scriptural basis to negate Jesus's words saying remarriage is adultery? What scriptural evidence would you put forth to show that there's a clean slate after divorce?

So an unsaved person that is a divorcee but becomes saved commits adultery if they remarry? Being unsaved how did he/she know they were committing a sin to begin to begin with?

So loosy there's no remission of sin through the death burial and Resurrection of Christ?

I guess we just discovered the second unpardonable sin. If you have remarried and are in an illegal marriage and a couple of kids, I can almost 100% for sure Jesus is not going to to tell you that you are living in sin and you need to get a divorce.
I am not in a situation where that has an influence on me. I have never even kissed another woman besides my wife, so in one sence I have no dog in this fight.
Looks to me like we've not come to a crossroads but a fork in the road where it seems like Jesus is saying bind them up instead of set them free.
When you get high jacked and have no choice then you know you just met a thief.

Its pretty easy to tell somebody else they are living in sin.

Those old jews were sure a hateful bunch.

Sure there is......if you repent of sin. If you choose to continue to live in sin, such as homosexuality or adultery,that's a different story.

1st question...yes.
2nd question.....same as any other sin (such as homosexuality for example). that an unsaved person commits. Whether they knew they were sinning is irrelevant.

If you ha e a problem with it, your problem is with Jesus, not me. He's the one who said it's adultery.

Who said it's unpardonable? All sin is forgiven with repentance.

So I guess if you're an adulterous homo you're really in trouble.

Truck driver I knew had been calling home for several days but no one was answering. ( before cell phhones) When he got there his young children were crying and laughing at the same time they were so glad to see him. Grabbing his legs making it difficult to move They had been eating dog food for three days. Scared to answer the phone cause they were young enough they would be in trouble for it. Mom was off on a meth bender. They didnt know where she was. Truck driver divorced her but I guess now that was sinful of him? The mom was murdered about 11 years later. So I guess now that she is dead the truck driver is no longer a sinner for running her off and getting on with his life?

Government is involved in the equitable sharing of women because it provides peace and long term stability. Every society and culture that has not had the equitable sharing of women has crumbled or lives in near complete irrelevance. Throughout Human history one man and one women together was NOT the norm, genetics tells us most men did NOT reproduce but nearly all women did. The cultures that eliminated infighting by equitably sharing women came to dominate the ones which did not. Govt incentives the equitable sharing of women so that our culture and country can continue.

I would emphasis again, one man and one women is not the norm, traditionally a guy like Elon Musk/Bill Gates would have hundred's or even thousands of wives which leaves hundreds or even thousands of men with nothing to do but cause war/trouble in society.

Well you were insinuating that if a woman is remarried and with kids then she is living in sin and the only way out is to get divorced and then what ? Her and the kids live on the street? You don't have a solution for that do you?
I know you are looking for a place to teach a lesson about allowing the gays marring in the church, then they can teach the kids in Sunday school and then worm their way into the pulpit. Alexander was great but he didn't end that way! Lesson=don't take short cuts.
So go a head and give the gay marriage thing another best shot. Just don't tie up a bunch of people with no escape in the process.

Was Jesus referring to man putting away(divorcing) his wife in order to marry another committing adultery? Is Jesus also saying then a man putting away(divorcing) his wife for abusing his children but remarrying another committing adultery?

Regardless of what Jesus did or didn't say--and Loosegoose is right, his meaning was clear--the Supreme Court has said that gays have a Constitutional right to marry.

But some people still want to take away someone else's Constitutional rights, just like for certain other issues in our society.

Jim

Just bake a cake to the "Queen of Heaven" and see how God approves of that !

Here guys. This explains the passage in Matthew 19 about divorce. It's long, but you'll understand it better.

http://www.bereanpatriot.com/what-jesus-meant-by-adultery-in-matthew-chapters-5-19/

sounds like "proper translation" is the key here along with "interpretation".

Context of the statement is usually important but remember LG is trying to justify homosexual marriage. He got a confirmation from an unbeliever/lawyer James so it's settled. Lol.

Interesting read y'all.
Marriage is a civil contract so the gubmint can say what it is or what it isn't at any time. We the people elected those who make the laws here in these United States, so that's question at hand.

That's a strange thing to get out of what I've said, and not my point at all. Gay marriage and homosexual behavior is sinful, ive made that clear already. So is marriage after divorce. The point I'm trying to make is this......most people don't actually care about the sanctity and holiness of marriage, they just wanna eat on gay people. Homosexuality is gross. I get it. It's nasty. Nobody wants to think about two dudes rubbing mustaches. It's easy to shout about banning gay marriage under the guise of protecting marriage, but let's all be honest......it's really just an excuse to hate. If you all really cared about the sanctity and holiness of marriage, you'd be every bit as upset about the divorce and remarriage thing. But you're not. Instead, you're making every effort to twist what Jesus said, to find exceptions and excuses, and to flat out deny what He said. If you really cared about the sanctity and holiness of marriage, you'd understand that marriage is one man, one woman, for life, till death do you part. I apologize for seeming harsh. It bothers me to see Christians harp on one sin that's easy to harp on, while at the same time making every effort to excuse and dismiss and justify another related sin, just because one sin is easy to harp on, and the other isn't. If we really care about the holiness and sanctity of marriage, then let's act like it. Let's follow all of what the Bible teaches about marriage, not just the parts that are easy.

Lol no. And you know I'm not. You're trying to twist the words of Jesus, and flat out deny what he said.

LG I just don't think you are putting into context Jesus' statements. Deuteronomy 24:1-4 would be the context of such a discussion. Pretty lenient for the grounds of divorce. You think maybe the Jews of the time used this leniency to legally put away this wife because he desires another?

Loosegoose is pretty close to the green. Genesis 2:24 is Scripture's guide about a man leaving his father and mother and being joined to one wife, and becoming one flesh.
Theology deeply debates the Matthew passage and always will. Believers should ask themselves why do they feel compelled to judge others while they themselves have been forgiven by Christ's Redeeming Work? Paul's writings were perfectly clear as to no longer acting as the unredeemed do.

Blessings,
Mark

Mark June I don't think believing in the biblical definition of marriage is judgmental. What a person does or does not do is between him/her and their Maker.
I try not to lean on my own understanding but often fail. I guess it really makes no sense to me that, for example, an abused wife divorces her abuser and then remarries is committing adultery. It just seems wrong and contradictory to the love of Christ. His ways are not my ways so as Posco mentioned I'll have to rely on Grace being sufficient.

That's a heartbreaking story.

One of the first steps in grooming is to desensitize the victim by justifying the action, even with a warped logic.

I gotta be done with this debate. It's something.i feel passionately about, growing up in a 3rd marriage household that was bizarre to say the least. But I don't think we're all gonna agree completely, and it's.not worth alienating people over. Christ is king, salvation comes through faith and not works, and we can all agree on that I'm sure,so that's really the most important thing.

In this discussion while many things was discussed, yet we didn't get down to root of the problem. Some smarter than me have advocated that homosexual is not about sex, but about power.

Dang LG I had another scenario to ask you about. Oh well as I said earlier James gave his insight so it's settled and you win.

I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp but I am a much happier man and the best Librarian I can be when I remember this simple concept.

Power over what? Do you know anyone that is gay?

Power as in dominating their own sex. Yes I've known several over the years. I had two school teachers when I was in high school, one of which was always trying to get me to come to his house for a variety of jobs. I was smarter than that, even for a silly sophomore. I saw him about 20 years later at a sale where he was selling some equipment. He was dying from aids and looked like a skeleton. I felt nothing but sorry for him. We had one in one of our churches for 40 years that finally succumbed to disease. I knew one that was a brother of a friend that died from aids, in his last days his sister brought him to church and he repented of his sins before he died. That was in the days when no one knew much about how contagious HIV was and church attendance dropped about half during that 6 months or so, particularly the kids. My brother-in-law had a niece that had a lesbian partner. I met them at a 4th July party, she also had a 10 or 12 yr old son from a marriage. A year or so later his grandma died and he wore a wig and a dress to his grandmas funeral. His cousin sat 2 seats from him and didn't think he had attended until his uncle told him he was 2 seats from him. I knew of one that molested my 11 year nephew and his friend on a state park where they was fishing near their home. No body told me anything about it til the perv was in the pen. I was not a born again Christian in those days, so lucky for him and me. If that's not enough I can name some more.

Then if want some history, there was Queen Vashti that was the great-granddaughter of King Nebuchadnezzar II (both abusive) And of course the gays hero Alexander. Then the homo cultures such as the Spartans. There is way too much to go into, and I'm thinking you would lose interest, so I'll stop here.

Interesting. Thanks for your response.

I dont really understand homosexuality but I no longer think its a choice. It least most of the time and likely all the time.

Those of you who believe its always a choice, what harm do you perceive that choice causes others?

JS,
Agreed.


If we're talking Genesis 2:24.
If we're talking about Matthew 19, scholars debate but I fall on the teachings of Jesus being; divorce is a man-made institution. It's not of Heaven.

Blessings!
Mark

I don't understand why so many people spend so much time and energy wound up about what other people are doing or not doing.

If a girl wants to marry another girl, who cares? People can have opinions but those opinions should stop short of telling other people how to live their lives.

I would think most of y'all are comfortable with God sorting it out in the end.

Come on man, they are the ones that are going to the 'promised land'. This is the religion that lets you into heaven after you have raped 100+ kids as long as you 'repent'. Should you be one that leads a good life, help everyone that you can and overall are a better person than most 'Christians', you are going to the bad place (if you didn't repent).

I am not living my life in the hope of the next one. I am going to live my one and only life the best way that I can. I do not need to be told what is right or wrong. I know this. I do what is right because it is right, not because I was told to do so. We all know what is right and wrong. Some (many) need something to lead them. I am glad there is this crutch for them.

FYI; I would fight to the end to defend Christianity (that is what our country was founded on). But there is no way there is a 'god' that would accept a baby raper but not a person that helped hundreds of people but did not 'believe'.

I feel bad for those that need religion to be good people, but, I am glad that it is there for them to be good people.

I don't understand why so many people spend so much time and energy wound up about what other people are doing or not doing.
Is int that why so many people become so concerned why so many spend so much time concerned why others are doing?.....you see