A Question for Coyote Trappers

As some of you know I took the 4-coils of my duke 650s. I stuck my hand in the trap today to feel to power without the 4-coil. The jaws landed on my wrist and I was able to pull my hand through down to my fingers, once it got to my fingers it locked up quite a bit more.
This raises some doubt in my mind if the 650 without the 4-coil will hold coyotes or not. Experienced coyote trappers, what are your thoughts? Should I throw the 4-coils back on or do you think they will be fine? Thanks in advance.

I’ve had one side spring pop off the frame and still held a yote, why would you want to remove a spring I must of missed that?

I removed the 4-coil springs. Not the main springs.
Just because I have quite a few fox around here, and thought maybe it might be a little too much power for them. I have not caught a fox with one yet though so it's only assumptions.
Has anyone here caught fox with the 650s?

I catch a lot in MJs nothing to get worked up about really the offset helps often, a weaker trap could cause you more issues then you want to deal with.

I'd think the levers would lock up higher on a coyote leg than your wrist. I'm guessing your wrist is twice the diameter of a coyote paw, wrist, or leg. That would reason as to why it locked up harder on your fingers.

Remember, your wrist is bigger than a coyotes. The trap will "lock up" better on a smaller wrist.

True guys very true. Thanks for the input.
I'm gonna stop worrying about it and run them two coiled. I'm sure it'll be fine!

Are they offsets or reg jaws? The size of the trap won't be overly kind to a fox, and the main thing that comes into play is how long he (the fox) is in the trap. Also length of chain and swivels. I've caught lots of fox in big traps, and can't say that I have ever lost one, but sometimes when you have snow and ice or mud, it is not pleasing to see. Personally, I'd leave them four coiled, and in the areas where the fox frequent, set smaller traps if you want to catch them.

They are off-set.

With the amount of mass the Duke 650 jaws have, you'll slow them down removing 2 coils. Lock up is more about lever to jaw geometry than spring force. Spring force does significantly influence closure acceleration.

They seem to still be pretty snappy!

My 2 cents

Ive caught myself in same kind of trap 4 coiled and 2 coiled and in my opinion there isn't enough difference to worry about. I sometimes wonder why people think a 4 coiled trap has so much more power that it's going to do so much more harm. My understanding is that feet sliding back in forth in the jaws is what causes the most problems. If this is the case I would wonder if a 2 coiled trap would accommodate more motion back and forth in the jaws...

The design of the trap has an effect on how it holds, spring strength is one part, levers, if the trap can relax the pressure somewhat.Dogless performs different. I know of one trap that will relax when the animal stops pulling.

Remember where he’s from folks.

Really appreciating your guys' input! Keep it coming!

I know what a 2 coiled MB550 does to our fox, can’t imagine one in an MB650.

The MB 650 is a paw catchin machine that does me a great job on the cats too. I have no idea how similar or dif the Duke might be but once I moved to fox country I run a lot more 5550s and KBs.

I snagged a few 450s too and if I was specifically fox trapping I bet I'd never hesitate to bed them knowing they do a fine job on a fox paw but still enough trap for a dumb coyote. To be honest, I trust the designers much more than you do and don't monkey around as much as you are.

If the top trap designers among us built traps to hold hands they wouldn't be as good on the paw as they are now

So you reckon' I should just throw the 4 coils back on?

Because you have the Duke Ima say maybe. If you had the MB product with the cast jaw like mine or big lams I'd say throw them in and let em RIP thru any crust you let build up on em. They will handle it

I mean I can always adjust the pan tension on them to something higher to avoid foxed too. Whats a good pan tension to avoid fox but will still catch yotes?

I have not used it to exclude fox but 5 pounds is works perfect for my coyote and cat rigs. Maybe give u a place to start your own research from

Set them and use them the way they are. If you do not like the results, put the springs back on and see what you think then. It is the only way you will know for sure.

I agree with you. I've caught plenty of fox in my MB650's with little or no foot damage.

Did you have your hand fully open or fist closed when you stuck your hand into it. It seems like if it caught you on the wrist, it is going to catch the coyote above the paw on the leg.

I think this would be a great way to get your own answer!

Entanglement and swivels will have more effect on the fox then if 2 coil or 4. Myself I run #2 Bridgers and Duke square jaws with laminations inside and out. I also run them 2 coiled. They hold bobcat as well as coyotes just fine. We each develop our own style that will also change the dynamics that we don't even think about. How much cover over our traps to distance from the hole and how we guide them as well.

With an offset, the trap don't hit the animals foot any harder with two or four coils. What is hard on fox, is their lighter bone structure, and lugging a heavy trap around, combine that with weather conditions, will make the diference, not the hit of the trap. As someone else said, a big four coiled trap will break through much better than a small trap, resulting in more fur caught. Good luck,whichever way you decide!

Thanks for all the input guys.
I have decided to run them two coiled and if for some reason I have issues, I can just chuck the 4-coils back on.