Sheep killer

I received pictures from a friend who I used to work with today of a pen full of murdered sheep that were killed overnight. The sheep belong to his brother in law in Mexico. They were in a covered pen and his whole flock was decimated. I have pictures but I'm hesitant to post them because they are fairly graphic but will post if need be. It appears the damage is all located in the throat and nose area and none of the sheep have damage to other parts of thier body that I can see. My question is does anyone have any ideas what could have done this? My first thought was domestic dogs but I would think the sheep would have damage to thier hind parts if that was the case. Maybe big cat? Let me know if I should post pictures.

Throat and nose says mt lion.

That's what was leaning towards but a whole pen in one night and didn't eat any? Will big cats kill for fun? Not doubting your opinion. I have zero experience with big cats except seeing one on 3 occasions. I do know housecats will kill for fun just didn't know if big cats would.

Maybe a young one practicing. Just the image of a lion jumping on an elks back and hooking it’s claws in the nose then biting the throat seems real similar.

I agree. From the pictures this thing done a lot of damage. Like completely ripped the throat out and took big chunks off the nose bridge and cheeks.

yes they will kill for fun

Thanks guys I appreciate the input. One thing I know is the guy that owned these sheep has lost a bundle.

Lion in enclosed pen with a bunch of terrified sheep equals probable panic attack.

It looks like a bloodbath. I asked about tracks but they couldn't provide any info on it.

a lot of animals kill for fun when food is easy. otter are notorious for it

I had heard that about otters I was told they would clean out a good fishing pond and waste most of it.

Let's see pictures.
Until then I'm saying chupacabra.

Well Waggler all jokes aside that is what the Mexican gentleman I worked with thinks it is.

These are the pictures I got. If they are too graphic then the mods can delete it or just tell me know and I'll delete it.

yes that looks like cat damage -- coyotes go for the throat commonly but not usually the cheek and nose area.

That is sad for sure. I hope Mods keep the pictures up. This is the reason why there is predator control needed.

I've seen cattle that have been attacked by domestic dogs and they were usually torn up on both ends from the coyotes having them caught in the front and back. That's why I wondered about a cat. Appears to be no damage to the rear of the sheep. I'm not sure what part of Mexico this was in but thought maybe mountain lion or jaguar could be the culprit.

Very common for lions to massacre sheep like that and not feed on any. One ranch in here in MT had 60 sheep killed in one night. That lion probably had to sleep for a couple days after that! Your guy might be able to catch that lion or it might not ever come back.

That's amazing. I didn't know they would go on a spree like that. Thanks again for the input guys it'd much appreciated. At least I can tell the guy something besides it being the chupacabra

I wish Wayne Derrick would reply to this. He or Bill Fletcher once had a couple of big lion cubs get in a field of sheep and killed a bunch of them. Said they drug them all to one spot and piled them up just like a human would do.

That was over in New Mexico.

The pictures look exactly like a lion kill. I've seen one goat pen with almost 40 goats killed in one visit and the culprit was a 80 lb. male lion.

Thanks Mark.
Most people won't believe people like me that live the livestock life when we tell how many animals we lose to predators, especially lions and eagles.
We fight them year around and I am currently experiencing an invasion of wild hogs. One of if not the most destructive animals there is.

Text them too me please.

X2

Gives the anti's who lurk the forum some food for thought.

So much for the idea that predators only kill what they need. But then, we've always known that is a fairy tale.

Some of the sheep still alive but bit up? Am I seeing blood in the wool on the sides? Just trying to rule out dogs. You'd have to skin the sheep out to be sure what did it. I've not seen noses torn up with lion kills like that either. If it was a lion it might have packed one off and he doesn't even know he's missing it. They can jump a big fence with a sheep in their mouth.

I managed to get the guy talked down from a full scale monster hunt. Apparently the local people are aching to go chupacabra hunting. They did say that there were dogs at the farm but they never heard a bark from them. The dog deal doesn't concern me too much because I've had chickens taken out of trees in among my hounds and never heard a peep.

Agreed Cedar Hacker.
It's really impossible to CSI a predation scene from pics. Nothing like standing amongst all of it and figuring it out.
Feral or domestic dogs are more prone to grab hams to bring game down. I can't see much ham damage from the pics but maybe it's there.

As far as predators, saw a black headed buzzard grab a month old goat once and fly off with it. Talk about grab and go!!!
I know you see some crazy stuff where you're at sir!

Blessings,
Mark

Thanks for the input Mark and everyone. I thought the same thing about dogs Mark, every time I've had the misfortune of seeing a dog kill or almost kill there has been a lot of damage to the hams and hocks and even genitals.

Davisfur,
Did you get any closeup pics on the heads?
Or a pic of a single sheep?

or front shoulders -- depending on breed. My cousin -- southern oregon-- had a pen with some calves and 4-5 lambs (comitted for sale) - cougar came in and killed every lamb -- one night -- they got it on video from the game cams. I raise a few sheep and have had my dad complaining that they didn't have enough feed - that is why 1 died in that pasture -- until I skinned the neck area and showed him the teeth marks that was coyote.I trapped him 3 days later. last year I had dogs chase 1 into the creek -- prints are clear. One internet warning and the neighbors have kept their dogs contained. I have seen lots of dog, coyote and cat damage --- not 100% but the pics initially say cat. Cousins have had lots more bear and eagle predation than I have though so I don't know much about what that looks like.

Sheep are often hard to figure out because they move very little or stand still during predator attacks.
Like I mentioned, standing at the scene is the best way to figure it out and of course necropsy (skinning and analyzing the damage) skills are always handy.
We're just making internet guesses best all of the posters can, based on pics and descriptions.
Dogs can never be ruled out until evidence shows otherwise.

I did not get any pictures of the sheep up close. The pictures I posted were the only ones I got. I do know it's hard to determine anything from pictures but I really appreciate the input from everyone. After talking with the guy who sent them it seems that his brother in law is pretty much financially devastated from the deal as the sheep were his best source of income. I know ranchers and farmers deal with livestock predation on a regular basis but it seems a lot of times we are kind of galvanized toward thier plight because most are big enough it doesn't seem like a big deal that they lost a couple of calves. That being said seeing a family lose everything in one night kind of puts things in perspective.

They dont have social programs in Mexico. I hope they recover soon. Hopefully they were able to at least least butcher and freeze some.

Pitbull.

Ok. My thoughts. I can see lion in a field or a pasture but a covered pen like this I'm going with dogs. I've seen this several times with just regular town dogs.

Take a little closer look at the bottom sheep. Front and
rear leg damage. I know nothing about lions, but ive broken
up some dog fights. I wouldnt rule out pack of dogs.
Had a buddies goats killed by a rottweiler and pitbull, he got
there as they were finishing the last one off. Facial attacks
and legs. It was their last slaughter.

What a shame! Is it possible to get them to a packer to salvage the meat/hide before they go bad?

From what I understand about dead sheep if you don't get them cooled out in short order after death they turn rancid very quickly do to the wool trapping body heat. Someone with more sheep experience may correct me on that but it's what I've heard from my cousins working in a slaughter house. Being in Mexico in August and not found till morning I'm thinking they probably couldn't do much with them even if they had a local packing house.

Seems like you should be able to find a footprint somewhere in that pen to help identify the culprit.

Agreed. There would be all sorts of sign on this one.

I would find someone with a thermal and set up and wait. Bet culprit will be back to see if any more victims available

Anything big enough to kill a sheep that came by I would unleash (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) on. Coyote, cat, neighbor's registered Fido or whatever

No idea about NM law but hope if it turns out to be domestic that owners will be responsible for restitution

This is not in New Mexico its in old Mexico. I think the people of the village are probably not experienced trackers and probably wouldn't know what thermal was if it kicked them unless the local cartel loaned them one. First thing I asked for was pictures of the tracks but could not get any. I do agree that a short walk inside that muddy pen would most likely reveal the culprit to someone with a working knowledge of animal tracks. I talked to the guy here in the US that has been the go between on this deal and he is sending them a trail camera but he had no idea what they will do when or if they find out what it is because they have little to no firepower as far as he is aware. He did say this is the same village he grew up in and he had never heard any reports or stories of big cats in the area but I don't think that means much considering the amount of people who live in lion country and never see a lion.

What State in Mexico is the village located where this happened ?