The new Chief Chaplin of Harvard

Is an atheist. You can't make stuff like that up.

Merriam-Webster

"Definition of chaplain
1: a clergyman in charge of a chapel
2: a clergyman officially attached to a branch of the military, to an institution, or to a family or court
3: a person chosen to conduct religious exercises (as at a meeting of a club or society)
4: a clergyman appointed to assist a bishop (as at a liturgical function)"

Keith

And some on here say the Bible is all made up. This was written about by John the Revelator.

You'd be hard pressed to name an Ivy League school that wasn't founded by a Christian preacher to train Christian preachers. Liberalism destroys everything it touches.

He's a Humanist. I suppose it could be argued that he views humans as the highest being and thus our own gods. Look at all the self centered egotistical manipulative people today..... Might be the religion of our country now.

Just another example of the cultural progression regarding religion in America.

I just completed a Clinical Pastoral Education internship for 12 weeks and during those 400 clinical hours in a major hospital in south Texas, I supported 92 bereavements during 60 clinic days.

Institutions can change the chaplain office title to "spiritual directors," as many in America are now doing, or anything else they want (the name chaplain is as old as the 4th century)
but I found those at the end of their life, whether 15 or 95 years old, think incredibly deeply about this life. And not at all about the topics people think are "vital." Not at all. The crap gets laid aside.
It was incredibly hard, wondrous learning for this trapper who will also be where they are one day.
So it is written.

Blessings,
Mark

Ah..... I had to look up who Harvard (founded by the Puritans and named after one of their pastors) brought in to oversee the spiritual directors.


Ah...... Greg Epstein, author of “Good Without God."

So...... Pelagius lives on. The 4th century heretic's thesis is being regurgitated by Mr. Epstein in our post-modern times.

Interesting how these modern creative minds suffer from the illusion of original thinking.

It's ages old and it's legions are many and among us still.
No thanks Mr. Epstein. Me and mine will stick with the depravity of sin in me storyline from Scripture.
It helps believers understand suffering in this life while waiting for the Promise of eternal Hope of the Gospel
None of that in your religion of eat - drink - and be merry.

Blessings,
Mark

Not to worry, if it happens its God's will ! Don't fight it, whatever will be will be.

Foxpaw sir. Perhaps grace for those believers who don't think as you do would be appropriate.

Wow that's over 1 1/2 per day. That would be a wall full if you could just get them on the barn. So do you get a trophy of some kind or just bragging rights . Or will God claim it at some point.

Bingo bango Pike River!
It is the post-modern religion of our time. Humanism has been elevated in the Western world these past 200 years that everyone today has been elevated to the place of god. Believe what you want. Do what you think is best. It's not about authority of any sort. It's all about whatever you want.

A lot of you's are clashing lately in case anyone hasn't noticed.
And there's no end of the youism clash in sight.

Our forefathers, while they fought, could at least lay down spears at points and agree to seek a higher power's guidance and providence to maintain societal norms.
No such luck in 2021 America.
The norms flood gates are wide open.
And getting wider - and wilder.
It'll get wilder and wilder as the you's have their way.

Us Christians are a bit apocalyptic because we're told how it all ends.
Society is right on track.

Blessings,
Mark

Wow Foxpaw. I wasn't aiming to brag but to point out a reality. We live in real times. Not make-believe.
Did you just make a statement like this? For real?

I believe it was you which was quick to jump on me for what you thought was a claim of victory just over a debate of words. We are talking people now aren't we.

You win. I lose.

Wow, Is that truly how Marks post should be read? Wow.

Believe me as far as winning or losing I have my sights on a higher goal. But I understand your thought that I can't work my way to Heaven. I find it funny/sad that the biggest controversy in church in my lifetime has been about evolution. Funny in that no place is worse about the big fish eating the little fish than in the church world. The sad because no place is worse about the big fish eating the little fish than in the church world.

Mr. foxpaw, you ought to tread lightly. You're fixing to get the boot for being contentious when there's no need for it. You seem to want the focus to be on you.

Foxpaw has been struggling with the doctrine of election for at least a few days now and feels the need to interject these snide little remarks wherever he can. You're argument is with God and your prospects of winning don't look too good to me.

I understand, please delete out all my offensive comments or leave them for record.

What about not posting them? Mark is a good man doing good work. He's always willing to have a conversation or debate but your shot was out of line.

If you need to get that negative energy out of your system, come over to one of the political threads.

Go a head keep beating, I am a firm believer in accountability.

I believe it is just religions "growing" . Check out the Catholics, They vote all most as a block for a political party that is pro abortion, pro tax and they unabashedly hired, protected and supported child molesters as priests, the face of their religion. I wouldn't raise an eye if Notre Dam renounced god.

Tman overstatement of the day and it's not even noon.

Must be catholic, eh?

71outa 77 of the house democrats have a perfect PRO abortion voting record. Two of the most powerful people in this country have been in politics for atleast 47 years, both catholic, both 100% pro abortion. 49% of catholic voters voted for biden. If you have lived under a rock you may have missed the vaticans cover up of hundreds of child molesters. Catholicism is a cult
Just my opinion , I have had too much coffee which makes me way too honest. They do have the best robes and stuff, parades and their own cool armored cars and such.

Amen

Foxpaw you are correct. religion can be full of errors and self-serving men. Folks who either do not understand and just blindly follow because someone tells them to believe this or that or folks who do understand the power that can advance them as pride and greed overtake them, using some spiritual image, But is GOD religion? That can only be answered by looking at what GOD looks at? What does GOD want? To do this GOD gave us his word, and in his word he not only tells us what he wants but also tells us that there will be those that you talk about, using the religion to further themself. telling and persuading people of things that GOD does not want. GOD is not religion, GOD does not limit himself to what man thinks or makes him out to be. GOD is the creator the always has and always will be. That is why GOD tells us to look to him and not men. Yes God uses men to teach his word, but he also tells us to examine those men, to see if in fact, they are true to his word or if they are wolves in sheep clothing. We are to take their words and see if they are his words, as he has told us to watch for. So If in fact, if a person looks at GOD and only sees him as man paints him, then there will be a false image of GOD and what he desires from us. But if a person truly wants to find out who GOD really is then that person will seek GOD through GODs word first, On GODs terms and conditions., not man, and then that person will seek the place where they preach GODs word, in truth, with GODs word, again not man's word. But the first place for this to happen is not in a building listening to men, but in fact in the heart seeking and listening to GOD. Salvation, grace, walking with GOD and all other terms for this personal relationship with GOD can only come from GOD, not a church, and not religion, not anything man-made. Of course, If a person does not want to seek God, then I guess this is all just idle words.

That was post for getting a clean fresh drink Jonesie !

Thinking about clean reminds me when my wife and I were baptized. We got baptized in an old pond that was full of little yellow belly cats in it and it was dirty and filthy and smelled like bull frogs.
We got dunked down on the shallow end and afterward was walking across the dam and a smart aleck Methodist with his Sunday best suit and new shoes and billfold all on board thought he would see if I could swim. He headed me to the water and I grabbed him under his fat belly by the belt and pulled him in on top of me.
A few years later in a bible study the subject of sprinkling came up, and I told them I had baptized a Methodist one time. The preacher asked me what words I said over him and I said none. I was under him and had to hold my breath, which I think was the longest I ever held it. That new suit he had on really soaked up water fast and was heavy. His wife was mad, sure glad I didn't have to ride home with her, lol.

When the passion we exhibit for our faith out paces our love for our brothers we become part of the problem instead of part of the solution. I struggle in this area.

Nailed it!!!!!

Good post Yes sir. I think we all struggle here if we're honest with ourselves. Chancey

It’s the new Liberal way of thinking just look at the range of mismatched picks that have been made in the last year alone, heck that’s the Cali way of doing business everyday and we know how that works.

If they put a atheist in charge of religion that’s a clear message of the direction being taken, why would their donors go along with that kind of move?

I think its best for some here to just stick to trapping.

https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/postlist/Board/25

I thought Christ said to be humble and not to hold thyself up? As usual I guess I am wrong.

Well keep on beating me. I may be one of those predestined reprobates and total depravity has left me not knowing how to know right or wrong. As long as the record is there at least I know why I am getting the whipping. If I owe you directly for your advice tell me what or how much it is I owe you or are you Marks collection agency ?

Let it go, man. Let it go.

Ol' Naaman dipped 7 times !

In keeping with the original posting, the world can;
Build houses
Do good things for people
Feed the hungry
And so much more...

But there's one thing the world can't offer;
Grace.
I extend it (reconcile) to a fellow believer through the blood of Christ Jesus. 2 Corinthians 5:18.

Blessings,
Mark

Hmm... and yet atheists adamently argue that atheism is not a belief system or a religion. The fact that a major atheist is now the chief chaplain at Harvard pretty much proves that claim wrong.

Can a person be spiritual without being religious?

That's a solid foundational question Pike River.
Most people believe (defined as religious) in a supernatural power. Most always have. And spiritual can be assigned to anything and everything. Pantheists like Hindu and Buddhists believe god is everything and everything is god.

Christians have always maintained biblical truth in studying spiritualism, and while on one hand the last half century has seen a renewed sensationalism of devilphobia, deliverance ministries of all types, and even "hired" exorcists, (started right around the time of "The Exorcists" movie) on the other hand there is great North American cynicism concerning anything supernatural.

Both of these extremes are what Timothy Warner, in his book "Spiritual Warfare," calls faulty. Too much fascination on one hand and a dismissal on the other.

It'd be somewhere in the middle of the extremes is a majority view.

At least Harvard didn't bring in an avowed satanist or wiccan.
Yet.

Blessings,
Mark

Would those beliefs systems be any different than a Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindi or a Christian sect that we do not follow? They are all religions but there can only be one truth. Anything that is not truth, originates with the evil one.

^^^^^^ Said very well. Very well indeed!

Blessings,
Mark

The Bible says there will be a great apostasy during the end times, a total abandonment of the truth. Aren't we seeing that today? Boys are girls and girls are boys.

I wonder what's worse, leading people astray or being so willing to be led.

After reading a bit about Mr. Epstein, I'm not really sure he's an atheist. And a unanimous vote from 40 other chaplains? Not one nay?
That says all we need to know. We live in a time when people will not speak out for fear of being shamed, losing employment, or being a "target" of the intelligencia.
Go along to get along.
The Karl Marx mantra is being drip-drip-dripped on us all.

From Mr. Epstein, "There is a rising group of people who no longer identify with any religious tradition but still experience a real need for conversation and support around what it means to be a good human and live an ethical life,” Epstein, the author of Good Without God, told the New York Times. “We don’t look to a god for answers,” he said. “We are each other’s answers.” Epstein, who also serves as humanist chaplain at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), has served as Harvard’s humanist chaplain since 2005 and, according to the Times, has been “teaching students about the progressive movement that centers people’s relationships with one another instead of with God.”

Question; Why be good if there is no God? For what reason?
Heck, just under 50% Millennials don't even believe in treating others as you want to be treated. "Good" is this century, more and more, in the eye of the narcissistic beholder.

This kind of humanism junk is ages old. Today is just blended 4th century Pelagius (humans are not born with a sin nature) with 19th century Darwinism (humans evolved from a process of selection called "survival of the fittest) >>>> and culture defines it as "good."

Where's the good we ask?
Us Fundamentalists have been written off as odd-balls because we say folks who're trying to be "good" are having a tougher time of it each and every year.

The atheist doctrines are;
1. There is no god.
2. I hate God.

Both. IMO

Name one atheist organization that has helped humanity in anyway over themselves.

Atheism is simply replacing one faith with another faith.

Don’t be naive a PM can be turned against you by some so choose wisely.

"Question; Why be good if there is no God? For what reason?"

How about because we owe each other decency and respect for being fellow human beings?

Some people don't need the threat of burning forever in Hades to be good.

Question for you, Mark. If there was no God or Hades, would you go bad?

Jim

Never understood why nonbelievers get so fired up with people that do believe in something. Never seen people snatched off the streets on Sundays and forced into churches (kids maybe) LOL

You can be spiritual and not religious might answer Snow Shoes question.

Exactly, the concept that you have to believe in the Christian version of God to justify being "good" never made a bit of sense to me. Kinda like saying "if I didn't fear Hades I would just raise Hades my whole life. Jarhead

No man is good if he examines his own heart honestly. Temptation to do evil is only curbed by the idea of being punished by society or being held accountable to God. Some may do more good things compared to others but evil lies in the heart of everyone that I've know on a very personal level. Not every evil tempts me but neither am I immune to the temptation of every evil.

My forty plus years I've lived in this country we have steadily moved away from the Christian values we were founded on and I have also seen a decline in the moral standards of this country those 40 plus years. Does one affect the other or is it just a coincidence?

Many here are leaving out another component that is forgiveness so it’s not that only good, evil are the only paths to follow.

Blessings,
Mark

Mark:

1. Says me. I was responding to a question.

2. Then why is there a Hades in Christian ideology? What is Hades for?

3. I don't believe in punishing people for the sins of their fathers. What Adam did was exercise the free will God gave him. (Adam is figurative, not a real person.) I don't know if you're a bad person, Mark, but you don't come across that way,

Jim

Blessings,
Mark

So Mark, you don't believe that unredeemed sinners go to Hades? Only Satan and demons? I was taught that Hades is for sinners who haven't repented. Where do non-believers wind up?

Whether Jesus actually arose from the dead is the game-changer, imho.

Jim

This thread has reminded me of the good Samaritan and the question of who is your neighbor.

A preacher that drives past you on a Sunday morning while you're broke down on the side of the road or the atheist who stops to check on you to see if you need help?

I don't know who taught you Scripture, but sincere question that sets the stage for faith seeking understanding: Do you believe the Bible is God's Word?

I have no clue what the duties of the Harvard Chaplin are or the beliefs of the person chosen for the job. There are according to Google, 203 churches in Cambridge Massachusetts. Seems like no matter a persons faith they could find one they like.

Harvard is as woke as any other secular university in the country. It comes as no surprise.

I agree with this btw. Total depravity of man.

^^^^^ The powers that be at Harvard did. Mr. Epstein is a self-proclaimed humanist. Fits in perfectly with 21st century New Englanders who can't run far enough and fast enough from their Puritan roots or anything to do with Divine Authority but will submit to any Federal Authority WDC mandates.

Backwards but what isn't more and more sideways and backwards these days.
Drip, drip, drip.

No, I think the Bible is the work of various men over the centuries. Certainly, men picked the books that were included in the Bible. If men could choose the books, how were the words reliable?

Jim

Fair enough. Appreciate the response James.
Holy Scripture is given to us by our Creator so that if nature didn't declare His Glory, and we hadn't heard about the Son at Calvary, well then we could read "All about it!"

For our sake and for our salvation....
I love that part of the Nicene Creed.

We pray God draws you near.
Blessings,
Mark

So what happens to unrepentant sinners, atheists, and agnostics like myself after we die, if we're not bound for Hades?

Jim

Valid question for sure James.

I guess we are past an atheist getting a job at Harvard.


Where in the bible is all this free will stuff everybody talks about?

Why does a supernatural creator of universes create creatures in his image only imperfectly, then come to live among them as a human himself only as perfect human, then get tortured to death so that he can forgive his creation for being imperfect, even though he created them that way in the first place?
that creator sure is fond of torture

My question for you is, would a wise man seek answers from the students or the professor? I can point you in the direction of the answers if you are truly seeking. If your not then I warn as a friend and brother you will get your answers at a later date whether you study or not.

He doesn't seem to want to answer that, does he? I was curious as well as a previous post made it sound as though he didn't believe sinners went to hades, which is something I've never heard a Christian say before. Interesting. It says in multiple places in the Bible that sinners go to helll.

You're just dead forever. God is a God of love and takes no delight in torturing folks forever as the doctrine of hellfire teaches. He is not some sort of gangster that threatens you to get what he wants. Just simply worm food and decompose, no resurrection.

I did answer him. Literally. James doesn't place any trust in the Bible so why would an attempt at a biblical answer mean anything to him? I wish he did have an interest but unlike Law School where he might have gone in with a pen and paper ready to take notes, somewhere, somehow somebody(s) taught James Christian doctrines which (it seems) have not been believed everywhere, always, and by all (Apostolic), and so he has completed answers even before theology (discussion of God) starts.

By the way, James is a very talented author for those who may not know that!
Blessings to him as always,
Mark

Pike River made a good explanation that comports more with a merciful God than one who sends people to eternal fire. But I was raised with the threat of dammnation hanging over my head.

If I were God, I'd load up the heavenly bleachers with sinners. They tend to be more interesting people.

Jim

There is not one whose not a sinner. No not one. So the bleachers will hold no other.

It's in thee Story. The Creation - Fall - Redemption - Restoration story

What makes you think this?

Revelation 21

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

How many judgements are there?

Satan will be cast in there as well as the beast and the false prophet where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

How do you find out if you're written in the Book.of Life? Does heaven allow for skeptics?

I once read about a well-known British scientist of the 19th century, a known atheist, who was asked what he would say if, when he died, he found himself before God. The scientist replied that he would say, "You didn't leave enough evidence, old boy."

The story kind of resonates with me. Though I doubt I'd have that nerve. I'd probably be shaking in my boots while I waited for the down elevator to arrive.

Jim

I thought Satan rules the earth. Seems hard to do while burning in a lake of fire.

Jim

Oh, I see now. That passage is cast in future tense.

Ji

That atheist musta been a city dweller.

Wonder of Creation (check)
Sent his only Son. (check)
Commissioned the writing of the best selling book of all time (check)

Atheists trade all this for another faith (we all have them) and write vast articles about;
A. Life has no meaning
B. Life has no purpose
C. Death has no meaning
D. Death teaches nothing

How you view death dictates how you view life.
You mentioned "challenge" earlier James.
I challenge you to sit with multiple people near death and ask them how they feel about A-D?
Their answers will surprise you.
Things get very clear at the end of life for most people.

One war veteran, who was 96 years old this year, and who was one of 8% of his unit that survived the battle of Okinawa told me on the day that he died in the hospital ICU, that he "knew" he was going to die that day. I asked him how he knew something like that since he was doing "pretty good," according to the doctors. He didn't blink as he looked right at me and said, "because I've started to think with my heart instead of my head." His oldest son, who he'd not spoken to in 20 years was by his side and the two hugged and cried together for 30 minutes after this profound statement.
Chuck was his name and he's a hero I met along the way as we all do. I walked out of his room a different person. I'll thank that saint some day. He died 4 hours later with only his wife by his side because of visitation restrictions.

Evidence of faith is like money some require little to be happy and some can have millions and not find joy. The condition of the heart is the difference between them. I've lived on both sides of the street and I know which house is nicer on the inside.

Extraordinary claims require an extraordinary level of proof.

Jim

Couldn't agree more. Einstein agreed also.
E-mc2 doesn't remotely begin to describe the order of all we see and can't see.
Oh and yes, I'll let you pop for dinner.

Blessings,
Mark

I feel that way when I am told the world we live in came about by random chance

We live in a literal paradise, teaming with complex life. Life that can't be replicated

And y'all say there is no proof

Okay then

Dazzle me

Make an amoeba, and you win

The existence of God is an extraordinary claim.

So is creation as a random or evolutionary event.

Which is pretty much the reason I'm agnostic.

Jim

The Laws of physics claim something can't come from nothing.
Or something can't come from nothingness.
Agreed

Just about the time finite humans have the infinite all figured out I invite them to catch the oxygen for their next breath. With their hands. O2: Odorless. Tasteless. Formless. Can't see it. Yet without it human life ceases. As a definition of faith being that which we can not see, yet we trust in every day.... O2 is a biggie. We just don't "think" about O2.
Glad He does.

Blessings Jim!
Mark

All are given an invite to the party some chose to come some chose to stay away, but they all got the same invitation

its easy to prove oxygen is real. requires no faith in something unknowable or or something not understood.

Some 13 billion years ago, an event called the Big Bang created all matter and energy, the universe, and even space and time. Physicists can't explain where all of this came from, how it happened. or what there was before.

Did God do it? Or was it all random? Two possible explanations for the BB. Both extraordinary, imho.

I believe the Theory of Evolution is a mostly accurate description of how life became the myriad species we now see. But it doesn't pretend to describe where life came from in the first place. Random? God? I don't pretend to know.

Jim

X2

If you think about it, Christ could have died in vain if salvation were left to us and us alone. There would be no guarantee anyone would choose Christ. God would not gamble that way. Mathew 7:14 indicates the number is already fixed in eternity past.

Jim, we're going to have a lively dinner talking trapping. You realize that right?!?!?
I'll say prayer before the food comes.

Blessings,
Mark

Maybe I can show you some of the furs I had tanned, just to establish my trapping credentials.

Jim

Faith to me isn't wondering if there is a god or if the biblical narrative is true. Faith to me is believing God would be interested in saving a wretch such as I. I think that's where the battle of faith is with many believers. Satan and/or his minions whisper those doubts in every believers ear.

You'll be the next Kit Carson by the end of dinner.
No worries.

Life comes from life. That is the only example we have.

The myriad of life we have is not explained in the fossil record.

In the cosmic scheme of things very little is known about man and his time on this planet. We've gone from supposed cave dwellers to traveling to the stars in a fairly short period of time. That's some fast evolution.

That was Martin Luther rub with the Catholics he was training among. How could sin be recompensed by men? No way. He would sin even as he walked out of the church confessional. He'd go back in. Confess. Come back out. Bad thought. Go back in. Confess. Come back out and lust. Go back in..... it made no sense at all to merit though men. This scene and more along with two passages of Scripture started the Protesters movement 500 years ago;

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “but the righteous man shall live by faith.” (Rom 1:17)
and...
being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; (Rom 3:24)

Luther was adament against the centuries old corruption in the organized hegemony of merit based church. 95 ways according to Luther's 1517 thesis.

I wonder if the Catholic Church was sheltering pedophiles back then too,

Jim

For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life and few are those who find it

I don't see anything about predestination in that verse. It says those who find it not those who chosen

Good stuff. Are you acquainted with The Noble Lesson? If not, might I suggest you look it up, read it and let me know what you think. I don't think there was ever really a need for a 'Reformation' as the church never vanished from the earth, it was simply driven underground. The NL predates Luther's thesis by about four hundred years and addresses popery. Look it up, it doesn't take long to read.

You'll note the number is fixed as in few. That number isn't to be determined in the future, it was determined in the past.

When I was a kid and pinned the preacher down with hard questions his answer was always "we can't know the mind of god . Thats where faith comes in. you just have to believe and accept we humans can not know gods mind."

I came to the conclusion that all those stories were so hard to believe because that stuff never happened or was greatly embellished.

As I see it their is no evidence in that scripture that the number was fixed. The idea that the number was known would aline more with the context of the rest of scripture .

I can invite a know large number of friends to help me move knowing that few will come. Just because I know few will respond doesn't not imply the number was already fixed

I do still love the music

I'm familiar with it and I "love" historical theology. If I was a younger dude, I'd dig a little deeper and stay here a little longer to intern under Dr. John Hannah. But I'm old, so that's that. There were centuries of "goings ons" regarding the corruption of the Western Church and yes, underground Weldenses were Bereans to the core. I haven't read the Noble Lesson professions in a while, but I know they had to go "underground" as the Papacy had power beyond measure during that time. What was it, like the 1100's?

Luther was an insider and God's plan is always topsy turvy of how "we would do it."
Thank God.

Blessings,
Mark

You're getting soft on us danny
Get back up on the Grumpy Stump afore ya hurt yourself.

Blessings,
Mark

Few is less than many, can we agree on that? The definition of 'few' is a small number of.

I only know Danny as rancid and it's kind of freaking me out seeing a big softie.

We are both headed in the same direction when it comes to agreeing few is less than many.

Gospel bluegrass will do that to ya.

That's progress.

If by some silly fluke James or Boco agree with us I reserve the right to change my position

Excellent!
Profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness >>>> in action when iron sharpens iron.

That's funny right there Yes Sir. Real funny.
Bout spit out my Dr. Pepper.

Lol. Fair enough.

Rancid? LOL then you don't know danny at all.

I read everything he writes, what else do I have to go by? I ain't saying he's a bad guy, he's just rancid.

Back to the original point of this thread, I agree it's absurd to appoint an atheist as a chaplain.

But what if he was Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, or Jew?

Jim

It’s Chief Chaplin not chief Lama, chief Cleric, chief Pujari, or chief Rabbi. If it was a school started a couple hundred years ago by any of the religions you mentioned it would be fine, but it was founded by Christians so Chaplin it is.

Morning Jim. Your point makes sense but I'm afraid America has become a land of spiritualization and millions of individual truths are gonna need millions of "spiritual directors." Which is what the 1600 year old reference to those who assist others during loss, hardship, and grief is now being relabeled in the 21st century West. From chaplain to spiritual director.. Time moves forward I guess.
There are very few atheists in our land. Most believe in something so to appoint an atheist by a unanimous vote of the other chaplains shows me they are all probably psychology majors anyway with minimal religious moorings. Not atypical actually. I recently worked with some of these types and my question would have been (I couldn't ask them this because they hold the keys to my "certificate.") to them: "We already work alongside psychologists don't we? Sure we do. Sometimes sociologists also. Are we called to be just one more of these as chaplains?"
Sounds like what you may get at 21st century Harvard.
I say not.
I found patients and people to have incredibly deep questions during many painful times they or loved ones were faced with.
To say to them from 6 foot away, "How do you feel right now?" usually isn't enough during these hard times but that's where we're at here in 2021.
The "Ministry of Presence," is a worthy goal used in Chaplaincy but there are differences in presence. An atheist being present with people during pain will not be of much comfort IMhumbleO.

Blessings,
Mark

Did you really ask this question?

James asks a lot of questions that aren't really questions at all.

? Is there a problem with this question? It seems legit.

OK, Ill bite, WHO in their right mind would hire a Muslim to be a Chaplin??????????????????? What Muslim would apply for said Chaplin job???????????????????? What Muslim would accept such said position?????????????????????. ( substitute all other religions for muslim)

My question revealed that there's anti-muslim bigotry at work here. So let's say the Harvard trustees wanted to appoint a Hindu, Buddhist, or Jew?

The definition of "chaplain" is not limited to Christian clergymen.

Jim

You can find bigotry anywhere you WANT to.

The US Military.....

Go ask the guy in the front if he's a Chaplin.

So far as i know the title for all denominations of military clergy is chaplain. The catholics call the priest father and the jews call theirs rabbi, but I believe the military term is chaplain.

That's exactly what he is. Matter of fact....he became a chaplain (former artillery) at the encouragement of a Lutheran chaplain.

Bueller.......

Yes, there are Islamic Chaplains in the military as well as in select hospitals.

You ignored my post as usual. I’m so sick of being called a bigot I’m at a loss for words. Ask yourself how a Chaplin would go over in a college in Iran??

I didn't realize you were asking me a question. I did read your post. You expressed your opinion. I didn't realize you were expecting a reply from me.

I didn't call you a bigot. Everyone is vulnerable to bigoted sentiments. Imho, thinking people realize it's invalid (if not offensive) reasoning, and kick it down the stairs.

Judging all Muslims because of the actions of a few is bigotry. I don't know what else to call it.

Jim

James your post clearly says “Bigotry at work here” I’m not attacking you. It’s just the same old same old from the leftist. Homophobic, xenophobic, racist, on and on…. The first line of defense is always calling names and never answering questions asked.

What is your question? I'll try to address it.

Jim

So you want America to begin to mirror Iran? Way too many have served and sacrificed their lives not to be like Nazis and Islamic extremist states.

Almost 150 comments on this thread. It seems to be a hot topic.
Having been a hospital chaplain during part of a "clinical pastoral education" recently, I learned more than I anticipated about many, many things. One of the themes I knew "going in" was that my orthodox (fundamental historical) Christian theology would be challenged, not by patients and staff, but by other formally trained "ranking" theologians.

I was not disappointed.
Debate was often spirited, aimed at me in particular from one who had been an educator for almost 40 years and who had found during his life that Buddhism and pantheism in general (god is all things and all things are god) held much appeal for him.

Not for me.
But he was the ranking voice in the room at all times.
Who hasn't been in these situations?
I bit my tongue often.
Got my certification for the world of academia we live in and among.

And listened with amazement (and sadness) as the man culminated the graduation ceremony of Christian interns at a hospital begun by Christians years and years ago....
with a Buddhist poem for life.

The pluralists (any god points to goodness and salvation) are everywhere in our land.
I am not one of them.

The Harvard announcement makes absolute sense given our present situation in America.
The battle for the souls of our kids and grandkids is real and is occurring whether some say it is or isn't.
It's always been happening.

Blessings,
Mark