Home

Social Security and Medicare

Posted By: Steven 49er

Social Security and Medicare - 09/03/21 11:37 PM

Projections are Medicare will be in the red in 2026 and Social Security trust fund will run out in 2034 necessitating a 20 percent cut in payouts.

Those numbers are projections, the reality is it will be sooner.

What is the "fix"?
Posted By: Bob_Iowa

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/03/21 11:43 PM

Well Steve the fix is pretty easy just nobody want to do it, you quit increasing pay rate and pay more in taxes.
Posted By: Cedar Hacker

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/03/21 11:47 PM

One fix would be for the general fund to pay the social security trust fund what it is owed.

The largest debt owed by the federal government is to the SSTF. They have been taking excess funds for years and writing IOU's to the SSTF.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/03/21 11:47 PM

Print money. The answer for all spending.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/03/21 11:49 PM

The Gubmint has been broke for years. They just can't kick the can down the road any futher. The grim reaper is arriving.
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:09 AM

Here is the REAL FIX, and NOBODY is going to like it !!!

First thing we all have to understand and accept, whether we like it or not, the Birth Rate is not keeping up with the Retirement rate. Less people being Born every year, and more people retiring every year. There are more people collecting Medicare and Social Security , than there are people paying into the system.

So, what is the fix ????


It's to have to include several different additions and changes to the System.

1. Increase in the Federal Income Tax.

2. Increase in the Payroll Tax.

3. Eliminate the ability to collect Social Security before full retirement age.

4. RAISE the Age to collect Social Security, to 5 YEARS PAST THE CURRENT AVERAGE LIFE EXPECTANCY. When Social Security was first started, most people did not live long enough to collect Social Security. Right now , the Current life expectancy in to the USA, is 77.8 Years. When the first people started to collect Social Security payments. in 1937; the average Life Expectancy was 58 years. The Birth Rate was also much higher back then. When Medicare was enacted in 1965, he ALE was 70.21 years. Again, the Birth Rate was higher back then.

I can see no other way to stabilize Medicare and Social Security for the long haul. Federal Income Tax, Payroll Tax, Eliminating the ability to collect before full Retirement Age, AND raising the age to collect Social Security to 5 years past the Current and any future Life Expectancy increases: are all going to have to be part of a HUGE change in how the Medicare and Social Security System pays out benefits.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:10 AM

ss comes out of the general fund. just like welfare. when do they project welfare to run out of money????????????????????
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:15 AM

I suppose one could include a Federal Sales Tax on all sales , in all the States. That money would go directly to the Medicare and Social Security Trust funds.
Posted By: Feedinggrounds

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:15 AM

How come Social Security is always running out of money, and welfare never runs out of money. NO!!!!! I don't go along with raising retirement age!! Move all disability cases on Social Security over to welfare. Pay back what is owed to SS trust fund. I have been paying into SS for well over 40 years!
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:17 AM

Is it even possible to eliminate the Federal Debt within 4 Years ?
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
ss comes out of the general fund. just like welfare. when do they project welfare to run out of money????????????????????

I think the word is fungible?
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Feedinggrounds
How come Social Security is always running out of money, and welfare never runs out of money. NO!!!!! I don't go along with raising retirement age!! Move all disability cases on Social Security over to welfare. Pay back what is owed to SS trust fund. I have been paying into SS for well over 40 years!



Don't tell Coonman220 that !!!!!!!!
laugh
Posted By: TNorman

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:21 AM

Surprised no one has said it yet but not giving unemployment to anyone and everyone that just doesn't want to work and forcing them back into a job that pay into ss would be a good start also id think.
Posted By: Rat Masterson

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:21 AM

Being I'm collecting, you earners are going to have to pay more so we don't run out.
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Rat Masterson
Being I'm collecting, you earners are going to have to pay more so we don't run out.



OH, no!!! Under the Canvasback2 for President in 2024 Medicare and Social Security plan , once the age to collect is raised to 5 years past the Current Average Life Expectancy, all U.S. Citizens who are under the 5 years past the Current Average Life Expectancy in 2024 , would automatically have their Medicare and Social Security eliminated. They would all have to go back to work, and continue paying into the System ! No exceptions for those that are currently collecting !! grin


Canvasback2 for President in 2024 laugh
Posted By: Garryowen

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:45 AM

I'm surprised no-one brought up about paying Social Security to illegal immigrants that have not paid a dime into it. When SS was first started a person had to work ten years to receive it.

Garryowen
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:46 AM

They dropped the ball on SS years ago and nobody ever picked it up again must of been to hot of a item to touch. When is the last time they overhauled or updated it. Is it being setup to fail?
Posted By: mskrtman

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:50 AM

The Feds did not steal from SS, they borrowed from it and are paying interest on it. In 2018 for example SS was paid 18 billion in interest.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:56 AM

Simple fix to keep the system of never ending growth going.
Since people are not breeding enough here-it will be necessary to bring in more immigrants from 3rd world countries who will work and breed lots.
Its a up system.
Posted By: white marlin

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 01:01 AM

phase it out, slowly?

[the "slowly" is only because promises were made, and fools believed/lived according to them.]
Posted By: Starbits

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 02:27 AM

Both political parties like to use SS as a cudgel against the other party. So the only way the politicians will ever do anything to fix the problem is if they are all locked in a room with lots of food and drink and no bathroom facilities. I expect it would only take them a month or two to come up with a real solution that observers on the outside would agree would work.
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 02:30 AM

A couple things, SSI is already drawing from the so-called trust fund. The 2034 figure is when that trust fund will be depleted.

Why should any fix require future generations to pay for promises made by past generations to themselves?

Posted By: Rick Otts

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 02:51 AM

There are way too many people in this country who hardly worked and draw a check of some sort and I know a few.Sad how broken this system is.
Posted By: Quartermastersir

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 03:00 AM


What's the going "match" in your employer sponsored 401K? 2%? 3%? so you're putting 4-6% of your annual wage into your retirement account.
This money is yours in actual dollars (minus the income tax owed) and can be spend or left as you see fit.
when you pass the money will go to beneficiaries.
If you pay all your working life into SS, and retire and live only long enough to collect for one month it's all gone..
how much money do you suppose you'd have if you could have your SS contributions into a retirement account rather than ponsi scheme it to the gov't?
(There would have to be an income insurance or something similar in lieu of what is now SS disability.)
I'm afraid that when SS went into effect, there were people who paid in nothing but collected, and when it ends there will be people who paid in for years and collect nothing.
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by Garryowen
I'm surprised no-one brought up about paying Social Security to illegal immigrants that have not paid a dime into it. When SS was first started a person had to work ten years to receive it.

Garryowen


You have that backwards. The illegals pay into SS but get no benefits. Fake SSNs.
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by Gary Benson
The Gubmint has been broke for years. They just can't kick the can down the road any futher. The grim reaper is arriving.


Yeah too many lazy people on welfare.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 05:11 AM

Nice test steven. Ponzi schemes always fail.
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 06:40 AM

Contrary to popular belief, Social security does not have its own pot of gold. When the time to do budgeting comes its all about allocating money to what obligations. This will mean tighter budgets for certain departments. When I was in middle school they were telling us that social security would "run out" by 2020.
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Blaine County
Originally Posted by Garryowen
I'm surprised no-one brought up about paying Social Security to illegal immigrants that have not paid a dime into it. When SS was first started a person had to work ten years to receive it.

Garryowen


You have that backwards. The illegals pay into SS but get no benefits. Fake SSNs.

Yup
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Rick Otts
There are way too many people in this country who hardly worked and draw a check of some sort and I know a few.Sad how broken this system is.

That would be SSDI social security disability insurance) and I strongly agree that its a very abused system that needs to tighten up. If you can play video games all day or be a keyboard warrior... You can work
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
ss comes out of the general fund. just like welfare. when do they project welfare to run out of money????????????????????

I'm glad I'm not the only one understanding this. Thanks Dan.
Posted By: Turtledale

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Feedinggrounds
How come Social Security is always running out of money, and welfare never runs out of money. NO!!!!! I don't go along with raising retirement age!! Move all disability cases on Social Security over to welfare. Pay back what is owed to SS trust fund. I have been paying into SS for well over 40 years!

So when I got disabled at 50 years old after paying taxes my whole life, I worked on the books since I was 14. 36 years you think I should go on welfare? And not collect what I paid into? To quote Buzzy, you sir are a "suckhole"
Posted By: Feedinggrounds

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Turtledale
Originally Posted by Feedinggrounds
How come Social Security is always running out of money, and welfare never runs out of money. NO!!!!! I don't go along with raising retirement age!! Move all disability cases on Social Security over to welfare. Pay back what is owed to SS trust fund. I have been paying into SS for well over 40 years!

So when I got disabled at 50 years old after paying taxes my whole life, I worked on the books since I was 14. 36 years you think I should go on welfare? And not collect what I paid into? To quote Buzzy, you sir are a "suckhole"

Why should you care what government tit your check comes from? Many on disability can do some form of work. I refused disability 10 years ago....Why? This suckhole has PRIDE and knows how to make money with my experience and knowledge, just don't use my back anymore than I have to. Now back to you, you claim disability at 50 years old. Yet you run a trap line, trap beaver at that. Then lets refer to your posting as recent as 8-21-21 #7328224, Mark Junes "Obesity a real health threat". In that thread you claim to be, 6 foot tall, 300 # and very active!! You then thank the good lord for your good health everyday!! So before calling someone a Suckhole, You maybe should thank them for still working hard paying into a government system, that you sir seem to be sucking the tit of. Your posting history is not the picture of a disabled person, unable to earn a income in some form. 40 years of work must make you feel entitled. I passed 40 years of work 5 years ago and am still working and plan to work for another 10 or more.
Posted By: newtoga

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 10:24 AM

My question is what happened to the money saved by having over 500,000 people over 65 that died of COVID. If they averaged $1000 a month that would be $500,000,000.00 a month in savings. Hmmmm!!! Just asking?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 10:31 AM

FDR was correct. Secure votes forever more with cash.

Did we think they were sitting at a vineyard sipping wine and smoking cigars worried about Fred and Susie and how Fred and Susie were gonna make ends meet and wanted to help 'em out of that pickle?

From a dumb young age, based on all I could see happening around me with sex, drugs, and rock and roll being the pleasures of the day....
I figured my virtues better be >>>> keep my head down, zipper up, work hard, stash cash, eat right, drive safe, be home early, get up early, do things right...,
and not depend on the masses who live their lives partying like it was 1999.

My grandpa owned an orchard and was pretty perceptive (see the above list of virtues).
Thanks gramps!

95% of Americans are financially enslaved meaning they do not have the means to make the choices they'd make if they had the bucks.
In the richest nation ever in human history....
almost all are enslaved.

FDR and JB and the ones to come next ALL KNOW THIS.
And spend the people's $$$$ (and much more) accordingly.
"Vote for me and I'll set you free!"
Ah yes, that old song by the Temptations.
How true.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
ss comes out of the general fund. just like welfare. when do they project welfare to run out of money????????????????????

Well done.
Posted By: trapdog1

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Pike River
Contrary to popular belief, Social security does not have its own pot of gold. When the time to do budgeting comes its all about allocating money to what obligations. This will mean tighter budgets for certain departments. When I was in middle school they were telling us that social security would "run out" by 2020.

Instead of tighter budgets for some departments, they should be eliminated all together. I'd start with the biggest waste of money, the Department of Education.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Canvasback2
Is it even possible to eliminate the Federal Debt within 4 Years ?

No. The total net worth of all combined millionaires and billionaires in the US is about 1.5 trillion. The Gubmint goes in debt more than 1.5 trillion annually. It's unfathomable how much money a trillion dollars is.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 10:42 AM

We're handing off a different Federal balance sheet to our grandkids than grandma and grandpa handed us.
Posted By: Feedinggrounds

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
How about we make SS voluntary.

I want OUT. Just write me a check for the money I have put in with a 3% compounded interest per year and then write me out of the books. Give me a release paper to sign or whatever else. Just let me OUT.

I am on a sinking ship with a life vest in sight and I am being told it won't work. Just stay over here with all the other people without a life vest. We will be fine if we stick together.

Nope. We will all drown. Give me my life vest and kick me off of the boat.

I would take that also....I have saved and planned like Soc. Sec. never existed. Many ways to earn a living if one wants to use their head.
Posted By: Turtledale

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 01:02 PM

Feeding grounds,
Sorry if I hit a nerve. Yes I am 6 foot 300 lbs and on SSD. I trap from a four wheeler and my truck. After reattaching my foot and learning how to walk again and 3 back surgeries, I do thank God for my health. I'm not in a wheelchair anymore. I do consider myself healthy .Im glad you work with your mind and not your body now. Maybe one day I can do that too. I'm sorry about the name calling but you hit a nerve with me. I do believe my money should come from SSD because I paid into it. I don't think more welfare programs are the answer.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 01:08 PM

What started as a government run charity has morphed into a scam to siphon tax dollars into the pockets of a few. ever wonder what percentage of walmart grocery sales is from food stamps? What about section 8 housing? How does that keep housing costs down? how does medicare keep health care cost down, and do student loans make college more affordable?

We will always have poor people living among us. government run charity makes that worse not better
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 01:12 PM

P.S. feel free to correct me but I think it was big D led by Lyndon Johnson who decided S.S. funds would be better put to funding the arms makers profiting off a little scam called stopping the red menace in Vietnam.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 01:36 PM

Why have they not raised the SS tax to keep up with the cost of living? I cannot recall the last time anybody stepped up and did any maintenance to the program to keep it going even and I’m saying never that I can recall. If that is not a way to let it fail I don’t know what is.

So some of you would take a check and be good with that what about the Medicare part of it, you would give up the insurance also? If people did that people would still milk the system since people don’t just die on the streets here. Once they burned through that SS money the welfare rolls would expand and others would be stuck with the costs then.
Posted By: Feedinggrounds

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Turtledale
Feeding grounds,
Sorry if I hit a nerve. Yes I am 6 foot 300 lbs and on SSD. I trap from a four wheeler and my truck. After reattaching my foot and learning how to walk again and 3 back surgeries, I do thank God for my health. I'm not in a wheelchair anymore. I do consider myself healthy .Im glad you work with your mind and not your body now. Maybe one day I can do that too. I'm sorry about the name calling but you hit a nerve with me. I do believe my money should come from SSD because I paid into it. I don't think more welfare programs are the answer.

I strongly disagree, you're not entitled to disability just because you paid into it. You should only get it if you are in fact disabled. I know a double amputee working 50 hour weeks. I taught a 20 year old bone cancer victim that lost his left shoulder and left arm how to drive a Cat skid steer. He now is shaping golf greens for new construction, 5 years later. My niece was born with zero use of legs, she is 40 years old married, kids in college, working as a teacher, driving 40 miles round trip commute to do it. 3 back surgeries would make you a rookie to her. Yeah there are suckholes out there for sure. Signed still paying and still praying....
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Law Dog
Why have they not raised the SS tax to keep up with the cost of living? I cannot recall the last time anybody stepped up and did any maintenance to the program to keep it going even and I’m saying never that I can recall. If that is not a way to let it fail I don’t know what is.

So some of you would take a check and be good with that what about the Medicare part of it, you would give up the insurance also? If people did that people would still milk the system since people don’t just die on the streets here. Once they burned through that SS money the welfare rolls would expand and others would be stuck with the costs then.


"Biden To Be Saddled With Trump’s Payroll Tax Deferral Mess"

"How does Trump's payroll tax cut plan compare to Obama's"
Posted By: riverratdm

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 03:52 PM

Print more money. Balances no longer matter anyway.
Posted By: stinkypete

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 04:48 PM

In 1982 I was told that there would be no SS payments. I took the advice. Like Mark June said. You are responsible for yourself. Like Danny Clifton said. Why do they never run out of welfare money? After age 60. Your body and mind are not what they where when you where 20 30 40 50 etc... SS was put in place for a safety net. An EARNED!!! Source of income. EARNED!!!!!!!! That has changed to entitled for non earners to collect from. This administration is finishing what other administrations have started. You have a right to a house, property, living wage, education etc.... without earning it. You deserve it because you are alive . This is IMO what will tear our country apart. Divide Thomas Jefferson made this quote. The Democracy will cease to exist. When you take from those that are willing to work. Give to those that won’t. Our founding fathers came from governments that where ruled by kings, queens, and Zarz. The beginning of the United States was well aware of this. America was opportunity to create your own future. Aquire money and property under very little regulation and government involvement. Now we have become and country of enablers. And we enable. Everyone is victim. Nothing is anyone fault. It is your fault why I can’t do for myself.
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 05:05 PM

These threads are great for bringing out the welfare queens.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Law Dog
Why have they not raised the SS tax to keep up with the cost of living? I cannot recall the last time anybody stepped up and did any maintenance to the program to keep it going even and I’m saying never that I can recall. If that is not a way to let it fail I don’t know what is.

So some of you would take a check and be good with that what about the Medicare part of it, you would give up the insurance also? If people did that people would still milk the system since people don’t just die on the streets here. Once they burned through that SS money the welfare rolls would expand and others would be stuck with the costs then.


"Biden To Be Saddled With Trump’s Payroll Tax Deferral Mess"

"How does Trump's payroll tax cut plan compare to Obama's"
ii


What will Biden saddle us all with by the time it’s over, Trump created jobs at least and those folks are paying in at least. Biden is paying people not to work and paying them to do so so what formula is the better one? LOL
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Feedinggrounds
Originally Posted by Turtledale
Feeding grounds,
Sorry if I hit a nerve. Yes I am 6 foot 300 lbs and on SSD. I trap from a four wheeler and my truck. After reattaching my foot and learning how to walk again and 3 back surgeries, I do thank God for my health. I'm not in a wheelchair anymore. I do consider myself healthy .Im glad you work with your mind and not your body now. Maybe one day I can do that too. I'm sorry about the name calling but you hit a nerve with me. I do believe my money should come from SSD because I paid into it. I don't think more welfare programs are the answer.

I strongly disagree, you're not entitled to disability just because you paid into it. You should only get it if you are in fact disabled. I know a double amputee working 50 hour weeks. I taught a 20 year old bone cancer victim that lost his left shoulder and left arm how to drive a Cat skid steer. He now is shaping golf greens for new construction, 5 years later. My niece was born with zero use of legs, she is 40 years old married, kids in college, working as a teacher, driving 40 miles round trip commute to do it. 3 back surgeries would make you a rookie to her. Yeah there are suckholes out there for sure. Signed still paying and still praying....

A couple of weeks ago I participated in one of those mud run, obstacle races. I come up to one obstacle that needed upper body and arm strength to get you across. Im covered in slippery mud. I'm thinking how can i do this, this is going to be challenging". I look to my left and there's a friggn arm amputee next to me going straight at it. Nothing was stopping that guy. I was a bit humbled but very motivated after that.
Posted By: stinkypete

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 05:55 PM

Be prepared for 2022 income tax season. When you file 4/152023. It will knock you sox off. If you are working. Or drawing from your retirement plan. Welfare recipients will be ok laugh. Work less. Get More. All for the greater good so the children
Posted By: Chancey

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Boco
Simple fix to keep the system of never ending growth going.
Since people are not breeding enough here-it will be necessary to bring in more immigrants from 3rd world countries who will work and breed lots.
Its a up system.


I don't know the fix. But I heard that there have been around 60 million Americans killed due to abortion since Roe V Wade. I don't know if those numbers are correct, but if they are indeed true, perhaps those individuals would have made a go at life and also contributed to the system. Chancey
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Chancey
Originally Posted by Boco
Simple fix to keep the system of never ending growth going.
Since people are not breeding enough here-it will be necessary to bring in more immigrants from 3rd world countries who will work and breed lots.
Its a up system.


I don't know the fix. But I heard that there have been around 60 million Americans killed due to abortion since Roe V Wade. I don't know if those numbers are correct, but if they are indeed true, perhaps those individuals would have made a go at life and also contributed to the system. Chancey

Or more than likely been a drain on the system.
Posted By: Chancey

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 10:36 PM

Perhaps Pike River. I guess we'll never know to ask them. A lot of great folks rise out of poverty and mishap to better themselves.
Posted By: Chancey

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 10:41 PM

Hardship makes strong individuals. We don't have an American baby problem, but rather a cancerous welfare problem. I

Generational welfare must end, as painful as it will be to some. Chancey
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Law Dog
Why have they not raised the SS tax to keep up with the cost of living? I cannot recall the last time anybody stepped up and did any maintenance to the program to keep it going even and I’m saying never that I can recall. If that is not a way to let it fail I don’t know what is.

So some of you would take a check and be good with that what about the Medicare part of it, you would give up the insurance also? If people did that people would still milk the system since people don’t just die on the streets here. Once they burned through that SS money the welfare rolls would expand and others would be stuck with the costs then.


Why should they raise taxes? To steal more of the youths future?

There are only a couple ways to fix it. Raise taxes or cut payments. Or I suppose print money although that is the same as a tax.

Me, I say make the cuts and faze it out.

Guys let's stay on track, welfare and SSDI are a whole nother discussion.
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Originally Posted by Law Dog
Why have they not raised the SS tax to keep up with the cost of living? I cannot recall the last time anybody stepped up and did any maintenance to the program to keep it going even and I’m saying never that I can recall. If that is not a way to let it fail I don’t know what is.

So some of you would take a check and be good with that what about the Medicare part of it, you would give up the insurance also? If people did that people would still milk the system since people don’t just die on the streets here. Once they burned through that SS money the welfare rolls would expand and others would be stuck with the costs then.


Why should they raise taxes? To steal more of the youths future?

There are only a couple ways to fix it. Raise taxes or cut payments. Or I suppose print money although that is the same as a tax.

Me, I say make the cuts and faze it out.

Guys let's stay on track, welfare and SSDI are a whole nother discussion.

Because all these go into the general fund like all other federal spending.
Posted By: Feedinggrounds

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 11:31 PM

I have seen the deductions, week after week year after year, every paycheck. To cut payments or raise the retirement age is just a robbery! Go ahead stop all disability, stop all Social Security, buy me out what I have paid in...I'll take care of myself. Needs to be more oversight of disability checks, and a easy way to report disability fraud, obviously there is a massive amount.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 11:46 PM

The free people will get the free stuff so take away SS and the free rolls will be swamped with people that planed poorly for retirement. No income so get on welfare and Medicaid then everything is free with zero self pay sound like a move in the wrong direction to me.

Look at what you pay in compared to what you might get back then tell me we are paying in enough.
Posted By: WIMarshRAT

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/04/21 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Steven 49er


There are only a couple ways to fix it. Raise taxes or cut payments. Or I suppose print money although that is the same as a tax.

Me, I say make the cuts and faze it out.



I wonder how you phase it out? I would waive my claim if they would allow me to keep 75% that I now pay in. I wonder if the gov would take that deal?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by WIMarshRAT
Originally Posted by Steven 49er


There are only a couple ways to fix it. Raise taxes or cut payments. Or I suppose print money although that is the same as a tax.

Me, I say make the cuts and faze it out.



I wonder how you phase it out? I would waive my claim if they would allow me to keep 75% that I now pay in. I wonder if the gov would take that deal?


Welcome to the Hotel California WIMarshRAT;

Mirrors on the ceiling,
The pink champagne on ice
And she said "We are all just prisoners here, of our own device"
And in the master's chambers,
They gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives,
But they just can't kill the beast
Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
"Relax, " said the night man,
We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave! "
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Feedinggrounds
I have seen the deductions, week after week year after year, every paycheck. To cut payments or raise the retirement age is just a robbery! Go ahead stop all disability, stop all Social Security, buy me out what I have paid in...I'll take care of myself. Needs to be more oversight of disability checks, and a easy way to report disability fraud, obviously there is a massive amount.

There is an easy way to report. Google your states OIG hotline or SSI fraud hotline.

If you want to know more about the Fraud Incentive Program, call 1-855-MI FRAUD (643-7283) or report online.
Posted By: bblwi

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 02:29 AM

There are many potential ways to extend the life of the program for SSI, increase the tax rate, increase the cap, increase the age for partial, full or max, decrease the stipend payments etc. That is an easier fix then Medicare which is tied to health care which has been rising far faster in costs then the general cost of living. It will take strong political will for politicians to work out solutions that will either increase the life of the program of set a course for ending the program. The baby boomers are not quite half way through their retirements. From 1946-1964 we have persons who are 74 down to 56. With roughly 60 million in that age group there will be a lot of retirement in the next decade. Many will find part time work or several will work until they are older, especially with the labor shortage we have currently and that won't end soon even with all the extra payments. Consumer driven economies do not create near the wealth and GDP as production economies do. Consumer driven economies distribute wealth more unevenly as well, along with creating trade deficits and high levels of personal and public debt as we have learned that living beyond our means has not seen a wake up call to this date. We can plan how to restructure or we can just wait until we are way over our head with few options.

Bryce
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 02:32 AM

We are already in over our heads.

I'm all for any fix that doesn't punish future generations.

That only leaves one.
Posted By: Feedinggrounds

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 09:36 AM

We can also redirect money, crooks in Washington do it all the time. Fund Social Security and clip spending somewhere else.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 11:28 AM

With all the "help wanted" signs in businesses across this land politicians are no doubt already considering ways to get grandma and grandpa off the couch and away from their cannabis get-a-way weekends, and their TicToc tournaments and video games and back to work.
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 11:44 AM

I've been hearing the same gloom and doom bullcrap about SS running out of money for about fifty years now.
Posted By: beeman

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Garryowen
I'm surprised no-one brought up about paying Social Security to illegal immigrants that have not paid a dime into it. When SS was first started a person had to work ten years to receive it.

Garryowen


Listed below from ssa.gov is an article of what it takes for non citizens to be eligible to collect SSI benefits.

https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/spotlights/spot-non-citizens.htm
Posted By: stinkypete

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 12:09 PM

That is why when they come in they say. We are escaping prosecution. Pretty easy for them to receive benefits. Come to any large city in the USA. Go and sit at the Job and family services or Social Security office. And look who is sitting there. Sure not seniors
Posted By: stinkypete

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 12:13 PM

Start at age 63. Cut off all benefits. Then anyone under that age re apply. A good start. Anyone 18 and older require them to have employment. The USA drafted 18 yr olds up to Vietnam to go fight. Surely working a job to be self sufficient is a good thing. Right!!!!
Posted By: stinkypete

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 12:24 PM

Last census. 18 yrs of age to 44. Make up 36.5 percent of the US population. 45 yrs of age to 64 yrs of age make up 26.4 percent of the population. Total 62.9 percent is working. 31 percent left over. So to many programs for non workers collecting. Figures don’t lie. But liars figure
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 01:18 PM

Your always going to be responsible for the irresponsible people in our society if you like it or not and people use that to live on their whole life knowing they can work the system to their advantage. Some people feel they won the lottery by getting on disability and will never have to work again.

What it takes to qualify for SS compared to what you can get out of it is enormous it needs to be revamped to be self paying again.
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Lugnut
I've been hearing the same gloom and doom bullcrap about SS running out of money for about fifty years now.



And it would have except for some "fixes" enacted. Of course, those "fixes" punished future generations. Like raising the tax rates and increasing the full retirement age. They also changed the way inflation was calculated which in effect lowered COLA increases.
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 01:22 PM

Jerry, at the rate we are going the government will be unable to borrow or print money. It's going to make people responsible real quick like.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 01:30 PM

If the cost of living rate has been going up why would the SS tax rate not go along with it then? If the money runs out who’s the real loser then the ones that paid in for all those years or the ones that paid in less dollar wise?
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 01:35 PM

You have old folks eating cat food not enough being paid in and not enough being paid out you yourself said a solution is to increase the tax rate, fix it at both ends then.

My thing is they keep saying it will fail but who is doing anything about it then, is that not exactly what we send people to DC to do just that!
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 01:43 PM

Why should the tax rate go up?

Ideally, the economy should grow, thus increasing tax revenue. If a program has to continue raising tax rates to self sustain the logical conclusion is eventually the tax rate will be 100 percent.

If the money runs out the "real loser" will be those who are drawing.

If taxes or debt creation is used as a fix the loser will be the younger generations.
Posted By: Feedinggrounds

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Why should the tax rate go up?

Ideally, the economy should grow, thus increasing tax revenue. If a program has to continue raising tax rates to self sustain the logical conclusion is eventually the tax rate will be 100 percent.

If the money runs out the "real loser" will be those who are drawing.

If taxes or debt creation is used as a fix the loser will be the younger generations.




If the money runs out before I retire, then I lose out on the social security taken from every paycheck I earned, won't I be a "real loser" too? I trap beaver, maybe I should tell my Doc I am ready, get my lawyer going and file for disability. I have a quad to ride, to haul my gear, prefer to walk but why? I prefer to work and be productive too, but why? What reward is there for the schmuck that works for what will be 50 years soon? The "real winners" are the one milking the system here and now.
Posted By: cfowler

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 02:11 PM

Ya’ll worry too much. The “powers that be” have already provided us the answer. The Great Reset. We’ll all receive UBI and live happily together as one.

We’re almost there. We just have to finish destroying the US dollar, capitalism, free enterprise, and freedom, but we’re getting there.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Why should the tax rate go up?

Ideally, the economy should grow, thus increasing tax revenue. If a program has to continue raising tax rates to self sustain the logical conclusion is eventually the tax rate will be 100 percent.

If the money runs out the "real loser" will be those who are drawing.

If taxes or debt creation is used as a fix the loser will be the younger generations.





Everything has gone up every year you can’t pay 1960 taxes and get a 2021 payout to live on. You need more in a 401K now then you did back in 1960 that is just common sense you cannot save pennies and expect big dollars back later on. Would you be successful paying in what you pay for SS tax and have enough saved that way in a 401K I doubt it.

It’s basically a forced 401 K that keeps everyone from paying for the irresponsible people that go through life blindly with no real plan, so make it a paying plan then. My generation paid in more dollar wise with the goal of a better retirement but that’s not working out at today’s prices,

Reminds me of the guy that won’t go to the Doctor because the office visit cost to much then buys a new gun later the same week it’s about priorities if we are talking self reliance it seems if everyone paid for their own retirement that would be a start.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Feedinggrounds
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Why should the tax rate go up?

Ideally, the economy should grow, thus increasing tax revenue. If a program has to continue raising tax rates to self sustain the logical conclusion is eventually the tax rate will be 100 percent.

If the money runs out the "real loser" will be those who are drawing.

If taxes or debt creation is used as a fix the loser will be the younger generations.




If the money runs out before I retire, then I lose out on the social security taken from every paycheck I earned, won't I be a "real loser" too? I trap beaver, maybe I should tell my Doc I am ready, get my lawyer going and file for disability. I have a quad to ride, to haul my gear, prefer to walk but why? I prefer to work and be productive too, but why? What reward is there for the schmuck that works for what will be 50 years soon? The "real winners" are the one milking the system here and now.


Not until the money runs out will some be willing to pay more then it would be to late!
Posted By: WIMarshRAT

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 02:47 PM

Right now we pay 13%. How much more should we pay?

You set that much aside every paycheck and you have enough at retirement to cover the costs of some other folks that never paid in. Money will work harder than us if given time. Somehow we lost the time?
Posted By: bblwi

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 03:16 PM

A lot of people have lost monies in their investment portfolios over time and some recover well, some not so well and some not at all. Millions have invested heavily in residential real estate as a retirement plan and that has not always worked out well for them either. We don't know what the future has for all of us but I feel the SSI will not be gone by 2034, but there may be a change in the stipend amounts etc. For those that are not planning for the future it may be wise to spend a few hundred or a thousand with a financial planner that can look at what you earn and spend now, how long you plan to work what you have saved etc. and they can lay out what you will need for the roughly 20-30 years you and your spouse may be retired. You don't have to follow the advice at all but you will be made aware of what it may take and you can make your decisions knowing the impacts they may have on you and your family. It will help remove the ignorance, victim mode and put the responsibility where it should fall.

Bryce
Posted By: bbasher

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 04:13 PM

Do you realize how long the fed has been printing money? That’s how our economy is run. Print enough to continue growing and try not to increase inflation. The system is crazy, but it’s the one we live in. The debt is never going to be paid
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Originally Posted by Lugnut
I've been hearing the same gloom and doom bullcrap about SS running out of money for about fifty years now.



And it would have except for some "fixes" enacted. Of course, those "fixes" punished future generations. Like raising the tax rates and increasing the full retirement age. They also changed the way inflation was calculated which in effect lowered COLA increases.



The fact remains, SS has not run out of money despite decades of predictions that it would.

I have paid more than my share of social security and Medicare taxes. As an employer I get to match employees deductions. I seriously doubt I'll ever get it all back. Just more wasted tax dollars by a bloated, corrupt government. It's good I never planned on relying on SS to see me through my senior years.

But again, I have no confidence in the long repeated predictions that SS will run dry.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 04:30 PM

The US Gubmint first started borrowing money in 1790 and has been broke ever since.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 04:32 PM

https://www.investopedia.com/updates/usa-national-debt/
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 04:32 PM

Take away SS from the ones that have paid in most of their lives would make Jan 6th look like a picnic. LOL Ending SS would domino into a array of new issues from pulling the rug out from the people depending on it.

Can you imagine the impact on some old person living in NY or some major urban area just getting by if you took it away?
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Law Dog
Take away SS from the ones that have paid in most of their lives would make Jan 6th look like a picnic. LOL Ending SS would domino into a array of new issues from pulling the rug out from the people depending on it.

Can you imagine the impact on some old person living in NY or some major urban area just getting by if you took it away?

About the same as putting sick people in a nursing home perhaps...
Posted By: stinkypete

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 04:43 PM

Pennies saved today. Turn into dollars of tomorrow. That is the power of wise investing. Social security tax’s an employee 6.5 percent. Your employer pays in the same amount. The problem is not enough tax. The problem is to much pay to those that should be working. Here is a good start. Instead of hiring more IRS agents. Let’s hire a team of welfare/ recipient enforcement. I would do it for free and charge 1 percent off the gross of what I recapture back. I can tell you for a fact. I can target 1000 people right now. Here is how they play the game. You are required to work to retain your benefits. You apply for a job with me. You go thru all pre employment thru me. Which I pay for. You sign that you accept job. We setup orientation. You are a no show. No way for me to report. It takes 6 months for Job and family services before you are checked on. You retain your benefits for 6 months. Another way. Married couple have children. Man works. Mother doesn’t. They watch there income. Stay under 35000.00. The mother and kids get free Medicaid. Food stamps. Wick. Heating assistance. Etc... I can go on and on. I started supervising people 35 yrs ago. I would see 1 out of 20 that fit this catagory. Now 5 out of 20. What is really sad is they boast about it. And I am suppose to except this??? I have higher expectations for our young. I was raised with high expectations. If your goal in life is for a hand out? Then you will have to learn to except what the working class is willing to give. I am not talking about retirees or disabled people. I am willing to give you a hand when needed. But when my hand out becomes a way of life for those that deliberately live off the system. That’s where I draw the line.
Posted By: beaverpeeler

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Garryowen
I'm surprised no-one brought up about paying Social Security to illegal immigrants that have not paid a dime into it. When SS was first started a person had to work ten years to receive it.

Garryowen

According to the government illegals contribute between 7-9 billion annually to the fund and unless they at some later date become legal and have their account transferred over to a legitimate SS# they do not collect a dime in benefits nor will they ever unless congress changes the laws.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 05:03 PM

Kind of reminds a guy of Obummercare people wanted cheaper insurance but are not willing to pay for it to get it. Your never going to get ahead paying 1960 rates and expecting 2021 payout the gap is too wide.
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by stinkypete
Pennies saved today. Turn into dollars of tomorrow. That is the power of wise investing. Social security tax’s an employee 6.5 percent. Your employer pays in the same amount. The problem is not enough tax. The problem is to much pay to those that should be working. Here is a good start. Instead of hiring more IRS agents. Let’s hire a team of welfare/ recipient enforcement. I would do it for free and charge 1 percent off the gross of what I recapture back. I can tell you for a fact. I can target 1000 people right now. Here is how they play the game. You are required to work to retain your benefits. You apply for a job with me. You go thru all pre employment thru me. Which I pay for. You sign that you accept job. We setup orientation. You are a no show. No way for me to report. It takes 6 months for Job and family services before you are checked on. You retain your benefits for 6 months. Another way. Married couple have children. Man works. Mother doesn’t. They watch there income. Stay under 35000.00. The mother and kids get free Medicaid. Food stamps. Wick. Heating assistance. Etc... I can go on and on. I started supervising people 35 yrs ago. I would see 1 out of 20 that fit this catagory. Now 5 out of 20. What is really sad is they boast about it. And I am suppose to except this??? I have higher expectations for our young. I was raised with high expectations. If your goal in life is for a hand out? Then you will have to learn to except what the working class is willing to give. I am not talking about retirees or disabled people. I am willing to give you a hand when needed. But when my hand out becomes a way of life for those that deliberately live off the system. That’s where I draw the line.

Go ahead! You should. They already have laws that you get 10% of the substantiated loss.
Posted By: GritGuy

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 05:48 PM

Worked fine for years until congress decided they wanted to barrow from it, then seen how much they could get away with !

After that congress decided to put it in the general fund so they did not have to make dances and excuses for taking from it !

Put it back where it belongs in its own fund not to be used for anything else, congress continues to pay what it owes to it and tighten down on people who game the system, don't be giving out to immigrants or illegals because you feel emotional about
their situation.

Those not wanting to put into, it they can have a choice to put into there own savings and provide proof of doing so every year on the tax report we all send in, if it does not meet a set minimum next to the SS they need to pay into their plan to avoid a penalty. If they are putting in more than the set standard, they can receive a cut on their taxes for doing so, you have to have an incentive created for people to be rewarded, or nothing goes anywhere in this country !

Those like 49'er who feel they should not be paying into it can be leaders in showing that they do their own retirement and not be penalized for doing it, then if theirs don't work either they won't have to feel bad about taking some one else's money because they will not be allowed to sign up for it !

Nothing is guaranteed with saving funds for the future, its all a legalized gambling bet, thats why there are so many life insurance agencies out there and so many people selling plans on retirement, every one knows they don't work, and everyone knows they should live on less than they make, problem is that everyone thinks it's not going to happen to them !!
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by WIMarshRAT
Right now we pay 13%. How much more should we pay?

You set that much aside every paycheck and you have enough at retirement to cover the costs of some other folks that never paid in. Money will work harder than us if given time. Somehow we lost the time?


Justin according to many you should pay whatever it takes.


Originally Posted by bblwi
A lot of people have lost monies in their investment portfolios over time and some recover well, some not so well and some not at all. Millions have invested heavily in residential real estate as a retirement plan and that has not always worked out well for them either. We don't know what the future has for all of us but I feel the SSI will not be gone by 2034, but there may be a change in the stipend amounts etc. For those that are not planning for the future it may be wise to spend a few hundred or a thousand with a financial planner that can look at what you earn and spend now, how long you plan to work what you have saved etc. and they can lay out what you will need for the roughly 20-30 years you and your spouse may be retired. You don't have to follow the advice at all but you will be made aware of what it may take and you can make your decisions knowing the impacts they may have on you and your family. It will help remove the ignorance, victim mode and put the responsibility where it should fall.

Bryce

Bryce, SS will not be gone by 2034, it won't ever go away entirely, but you know as well as I do once the trust fund runs out it won't be able to sustain itself. Your last sentence sums it up pretty well, I'll be eligible to draw in 11 years. I'll make the decision then and it will be my responsibility to see to it I have enough income to sustain myself. I will be planning for a lower payment than is promised. Most likely I'll work a few years beyond 62 and maybe even past 65.

cfowler, I agree 100 percent and your scenario of the dollar being destroyed will fix the issue of welfare.


Originally Posted by Law Dog
Kind of reminds a guy of Obummercare people wanted cheaper insurance but are not willing to pay for it to get it. Your never going to get ahead paying 1960 rates and expecting 2021 payout the gap is too wide.


In 1960 medium income was x, in 2021 it's 3 or 4x so even if rates don't change revenue goes up by 3 or 4x. The problem isn't the rates are too low, Boco hit the nail on the head a couple of pages ago, they assumed birth rates would remain the same but they actually declined. A lot! Ironically without all the legal and illegal immigration, the SS system would be in worse shape.

Lugnut I have never seen a prediction that SS will go broke or run completely out of money, just that it will be underfunded. A major problem is, it's not the only government entitlement program that is underfunded.

SS liabilities are 21 trillion, medicare 33 trillion. Total US unfunded liabilities are north of 150 trillion.
Posted By: stinkypete

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 05:58 PM

Saving for a rainy day is always better the waiting for it to rain.
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by GritGuy
Worked fine for years until congress decided they wanted to barrow from it, then seen how much they could get away with !

After that congress decided to put it in the general fund so they did not have to make dances and excuses for taking from it !

Put it back where it belongs in its own fund not to be used for anything else, congress continues to pay what it owes to it and tighten down on people who game the system, don't be giving out to immigrants or illegals because you feel emotional about
their situation.

Those not wanting to put into, it they can have a choice to put into there own savings and provide proof of doing so every year on the tax report we all send in, if it does not meet a set minimum next to the SS they need to pay into their plan to avoid a penalty. If they are putting in more than the set standard, they can receive a cut on their taxes for doing so, you have to have an incentive created for people to be rewarded, or nothing goes anywhere in this country !

Those like 49'er who feel they should not be paying into it can be leaders in showing that they do their own retirement and not be penalized for doing it, then if theirs don't work either they won't have to feel bad about taking some one else's money because they will not be allowed to sign up for it !

Nothing is guaranteed with saving funds for the future, its all a legalized gambling bet, thats why there are so many life insurance agencies out there and so many people selling plans on retirement, every one knows they don't work, and everyone knows they should live on less than they make, problem is that everyone thinks it's not going to happen to them !!


Grit, I think that you can grasp that even if Congress hadn't borrowed from the plan is still going to be underfunded. The 2034 figure is taking into consideration that all the monies looted will have been paid back plus the interest it earns from the bonds it was given.

In opinion SS isn't going anywhere, the largest voting block in the country will see to that.
Posted By: white17

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 06:12 PM

It is my opinion that it doesn't matter how much revenue the government takes from us, it will never be sufficient to satisfy the spending.

I also believe that no serious effort will ever be made to repair the current system. An eventual collapse will solve it for us.
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 06:32 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 06:45 PM

SSDI and OASI are different programs with different funding sources. DI is projected to be underfunded until sometime in the 2050s
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by white17
It is my opinion that it doesn't matter how much revenue the government takes from us, it will never be sufficient to satisfy the spending.

I also believe that no serious effort will ever be made to repair the current system. An eventual collapse will solve it for us.



Yup.
Posted By: GritGuy

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 07:07 PM

49er, yes it would have been but not for many years later, which by then maybe things might have been different with it now.

To just simply shut it off now or in the immediate future would send this country over the edge, I think you can understand that as well. As this country gets more upset about personal violation than it does as if the country is violated, you can see that now with this debacle of Afiganstain, half don't even bother a notice the other half is broken hearted about how it was done !

There has not been any significant talk of trying to fix it ever, oh there is jabber around election time, but thats all it is.

What I have read about 2034 is that there are still going to be funds although checks may have to be limited in some fashion, I've not read any where at all where it will stop on that magical date !

That's not very far away, and its a terrible tragedy that something isn't figured out now to get a go on a new program or bandage the old one.
We have to start some where and with the Government taking out monies from our paychecks, cause we won't do it on our own,
and us trying to use 401's, Roth's, or some other type of savings to exclude being taxed on the monies going in to them, it's pretty much on our own now as it is.

The spigot has to be turned off to only disabled that are proven to be so, and then watched to make sure it's not abuse just because these people feel they don't have to work, and children of lost parents till age 18, at which time it now stops anyway.

You cannot take peoples money away that have paid into it all of their life and not expect some sort of fight back about it, SS will either have to be given back to people on some scale, or a portion put into these peoples new program, divvied out in some sort of equability fashion , even at that something has to be done now, right now not in a year as they keep pushing it forward, after every election is over.

Congress has failed our country for many years and just having a non politician for president has proven that the politicians in this country do not have our best interest at hand, in four short years we were back on top. They need removal when noticed they just talk and never do any walking to fix problems. We need to stop financing other country's policies for our own reward, We can live without them and we don't need to buy their stabilities with our money, when they show after receiving those funds they are nor more likely to change than our politicians will fix things here.

What's the fix for everyone, likely a re-run of some sort, as even we as a country cannot as a standard save for our own retirement, can you imagine in todays age if everyone was just left to save yearly to pay income tax what would happen to every one LOL there is a reason it's a law to pay or your penalized, and its not just because the government can't run without our funds. SS is going in the toilet, yes, when it totally dies is a guess really !
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by GritGuy
49er, yes it would have been but not for many years later, which by then maybe things might have been different with it now.

!



I fail to see how it would be many years later.

OASI is in the red now meaning it's paying out more than it's taking in.

The money that was pilfered is being paid back and that "surplus" will be used up by 2034. It's as simple as that. 2034 is the year that it will be underfunded, well unless revenues exceed or projections or more likely don't meet projections.

Eventually the free market will make the decisions for us.
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 09:28 PM

5 trillion is peanuts when your liability is 21 trillion.

The 5 trillion is being paid back as we speak and will be used up in 13 years barring another financial crisis.
Posted By: Law Dog

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 09:34 PM

So if your trillions in debt are you really paying anything back then?
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 09:40 PM

Could you clarify?

I think I understand your question but want to make sure.
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 09:49 PM

Dawg, I have no confidence in the government to settle its debts, only print more money. They will keep OASI solvent at least until the 2034 figure, if not they'll get voted out.

They can't settle the debts, the people won't stand for it.
Posted By: white marlin

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by bblwi
For those that are not planning for the future it may be wise to spend a few hundred or a thousand with a financial planner that can look at what you earn and spend now, how long you plan to work what you have saved etc. and they can lay out what you will need for the roughly 20-30 years you and your spouse may be retired. You don't have to follow the advice at all but you will be made aware of what it may take and you can make your decisions knowing the impacts they may have on you and your family. It will help remove the ignorance, victim mode and put the responsibility where it should fall. Bryce


[sarcasm mode: ON!]...now, we can't be having THAT, can we??? [sarcasm mode: OFF!]

IMHO, very good advice, Bryce! And it's never too early to make sure you're on the right track...especially in this day and age of 401K's (versus old-style pensions, etc.)

Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gary Benson
Originally Posted by Canvasback2
Is it even possible to eliminate the Federal Debt within 4 Years ?

No. The total net worth of all combined millionaires and billionaires in the US is about 1.5 trillion. The Gubmint goes in debt more than 1.5 trillion annually. It's unfathomable how much money a trillion dollars is.


at 22.50 Pounds for a Million dollars in $100.00 bills, that works out to 33 Million , 750 Thousand Pounds
Posted By: bblwi

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/05/21 11:20 PM

A lot of us fret, worry and finger point about their perspective investment and retirement financial situation. Many spend a lot of time trying to find the very best places to invest say 3, 5 or 10% of their income. To me knowing that one should start very, very early and also watch much more closely how one spends the 90% that is not invested will most likely be the thing that determines a better outcome. I never would have imagined that I would have a higher income when retired then I did working but being aware and conscious of how we lived, spent and saved has put us in a good place for now.

Bryce
Posted By: Chancey

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/06/21 03:23 AM

This post will show my ignorance.

But after reading through this thread and trying to wrap my mind around everything, I wonder why we just don't do away with the stock market? Why can't we settle our debt?
It seems that the stock market is the piece of the thread that we are talking about. Why and how does it affect us?

I was just fine in 2008 and never understood why folks were in such a tizzy about it all. I was making money and happy because I was working my tail off.

Why should the working class that have prepared care if the stock market crashes?
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/06/21 03:58 AM

Because in today's climate there are only a few places you can put your money that might outpace inflation.
Posted By: Feedinggrounds

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/06/21 12:14 PM

2008/2009 was a great time to buy solid stocks! Cannot remember the Warren Buffet, Oracle of Omaha's saying, but he was right.
Posted By: bblwi

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/06/21 03:10 PM

Let us say that the tax rates and codes do not change but the IRS would spend say an extra 50 million per year collecting 300 million of unreported income for taxes. That 250 million being used to lower the debt annually. It would take roughly 100 years to pay off 25 trillion. We would still need to pay the interest on the debt out of budgets or deficits. Realistically we need to have a significant social, cultural and governmental shift to even make a DENT in debt, let alone get serious about paying down debt. We will need a real growth in our GDP and economy to even think about any real reductions and that is much harder to do with a consumer economy as trading dollars on goods and services does not create near the economic turnover or wealth as a production economy does. Those nations and continents with resources and working on training workers will be able to produce the things they need and if we are not watchful we will be even more consumer based in the future, which means we will basically making money serving hamburgers to each other and cleaning up after each other in assisted living places. The need to provide services for those that want to be served and waited upon pulls a lot of labor away from more productive jobs.

Bryce
Posted By: Computer Hater

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/06/21 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by bblwi
Let us say that the tax rates and codes do not change but the IRS would spend say an extra 50 million per year collecting 300 million of unreported income for taxes. That 250 million being used to lower the debt annually. It would take roughly 100 years to pay off 25 trillion. We would still need to pay the interest on the debt out of budgets or deficits. Realistically we need to have a significant social, cultural and governmental shift to even make a DENT in debt, let alone get serious about paying down debt. We will need a real growth in our GDP and economy to even think about any real reductions and that is much harder to do with a consumer economy as trading dollars on goods and services does not create near the economic turnover or wealth as a production economy does. Those nations and continents with resources and working on training workers will be able to produce the things they need and if we are not watchful we will be even more consumer based in the future, which means we will basically making money serving hamburgers to each other and cleaning up after each other in assisted living places. The need to provide services for those that want to be served and waited upon pulls a lot of labor away from more productive jobs.

Bryce


I think your math is a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit off. Try 25 billion instead of trillion. 4 years at 250 million would equal a billion. 100 years would be 25 billion.
Posted By: NonPCfed

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/06/21 06:40 PM

Steven 49- You made your original statement as a rhetorical or semi-rhetorical statement, correct...?

You know that there is no way this debt can be paid back or even real desire or attempt to pay it back. Yeah, they may tinker with things around the edges but the debt will only increase. If this current political-economic system continues, as stated by yourself and others, a crisis collapse will happen, and everything will start over again at fractions of a dollar. People who have various assets will still have at least some of those assets but they will be worth only a tiny fraction of what they were worth (on paper) before the reset. People who have little assets now will still have little assets. Of course, the current political-economic system could be changed by other means but those are great unknowns. History is fluid, the outcome is not set. For the people currently in control of the system, a great re-set seems more 'known" than the alternatives, at least in their minds. Again, we'll see what happens. maybe they are more right than wrong, maybe they are very wrong...
Posted By: white17

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/06/21 06:50 PM

I'll take...."they are very wrong" for $200 Alex.
Posted By: NonPCfed

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/06/21 07:00 PM

Quote
I'll take...."they are very wrong" for $200 Alex.


white 17- the price of the square is waaay too low...
Posted By: bblwi

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/06/21 07:28 PM

Your correct I meant to use billion not million. What is a couple zeros here or there!! Unfortunately that is the way we seem to operate.

Bryce
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/06/21 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by NonPCfed
Steven 49- You made your original statement as a rhetorical or semi-rhetorical statement, correct...?

You know that there is no way this debt can be paid back or even real desire or attempt to pay it back. Yeah, they may tinker with things around the edges but the debt will only increase. If this current political-economic system continues, as stated by yourself and others, a crisis collapse will happen, and everything will start over again at fractions of a dollar. People who have various assets will still have at least some of those assets but they will be worth only a tiny fraction of what they were worth (on paper) before the reset. People who have little assets now will still have little assets. Of course, the current political-economic system could be changed by other means but those are great unknowns. History is fluid, the outcome is not set. For the people currently in control of the system, a great re-set seems more 'known" than the alternatives, at least in their minds. Again, we'll see what happens. maybe they are more right than wrong, maybe they are very wrong...


Of course it's rhetorical, well maybe semi. I like to see what other people's opinions are and how much more debt the people are willing to saddle our children with.
It usually doesn't disappoint.

Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/06/21 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by NonPCfed
Quote
I'll take...."they are very wrong" for $200 Alex.


white 17- the price of the square is waaay too low...


It would be the daily double lol.
Posted By: James

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/07/21 01:08 AM

If you eliminate SS and Medicare, what happens to all the people now dependent on it?

Jim
Posted By: bblwi

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/07/21 01:17 AM

The economy can not take the hit that the huge drop in consumer spending we would take if there were no SSI stipends for the roughly 50-60 million persons collecting SSI. This is especially true when the money spent is turned back into the economy ASAP. Retirees don't work many jobs but their spending creates many jobs.

Bryce
Posted By: mnsota

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/07/21 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by bblwi
The economy can not take the hit that the huge drop in consumer spending we would take if there were no SSI stipends for the roughly 50-60 million persons collecting SSI. This is especially true when the money spent is turned back into the economy ASAP. Retirees don't work many jobs but their spending creates many jobs.

Bryce



True
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/07/21 03:49 AM

Nobody has said anything about eliminating it.
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/07/21 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by James
If you eliminate SS and Medicare, what happens to all the people now dependent on it?

Jim

SS and Medicare or SSD-I and Medicaid?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/07/21 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by James
If you eliminate SS and Medicare, what happens to all the people now dependent on it?

Jim


Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Nobody has said anything about eliminating it.


Originally Posted by James
If you eliminate SS and Medicare, what happens to all the people now dependent on it?

Jim


What happens to wildlife you feed and make dependent and then stop feeding them? It is illegal to make wildlife dependent here.There is a reason we treat wildlife better than humans.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 04:59 PM

“We’ve had the safety net programs a lot longer than we’ve had the term,” says Guian McKee, a historian at the University of Virginia.
If Not FDR, Then Who?
McKee trawled through newspaper archives to see when the phrase “safety net” first started showing up to describe government social programs. The first reference he could find was in 1966, in a New York Times article about the New York Governor’s race. One of the candidates used the phrase to describe his approach to social spending, saying “public assistance will be envisaged as a safety net on the one hand, and as a transmission belt to productive employment on the other.”

Ironically, the candidate who said it was Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jr., FDR’s son.

But the “safety net” still didn’t really become a household term in the way we know it now, for another fifteen years.

February 18, 1981 to be exact, in President Ronald Reagan’s first speech to Congress. He was in the midst of laying out big and controversial federal spending cuts he wanted to make,

“Now, I know that exaggerated and inaccurate stories about these cuts have disturbed many people,” he said. “And I welcome this opportunity to set things straight.”

And then, he used the phrase.

“All those with true need can rest assured that the social safety net of programs they depend on are exempt from any cuts,” he said. Then he went on, “But government will not continue to subsidize individuals or business interests where real need cannot be demonstrated.”

And in those two sentences, Reagan popularized a vivid metaphor for government assistance, while at the same time redefining who deserved it.

For Reagan, the elderly and veterans were at the top of the list of the deserving, and that was reflected in the programs he identified as part of the safety net—programs he promised not to cut. Social security was safe, as was Medicare and funding for Veterans pensions. All were programs, as a New York Times article a few weeks later pointed out, that “assist not only the poor but also many people who are not poor and some who are quite well off.”
Posted By: James

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Nobody has said anything about eliminating it.


Originally Posted by James
If you eliminate SS and Medicare, what happens to all the people now dependent on it?

Jim


What happens to wildlife you feed and make dependent and then stop feeding them? It is illegal to make wildlife dependent here.There is a reason we treat wildlife better than humans.


Are you an adult? I'm surprised you haven't figured out that people are not just animals. We hunt and trap animals. Try that with people, Dirt. Go ahead, I dare you.

Jim
Posted By: James

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 06:41 PM

Good Christian thoughts there, Mark. And you wonder why I spurn your religion.

Jim
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 06:52 PM

Jim, I was not the one that made people dependent. I could not be that cruel. Look in the mirror.
Posted By: James

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 06:56 PM

Dirt, I wasn't even born when SS was enacted. Go find someone else to blame.

I paid into the system for almost fifty years, and I won't feel guilty at all for collecting my benefits. When your time comes, I bet you won't refuse it either.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by James
Dirt, I wasn't even born when SS was enacted. Go find someone else to blame.

I paid into the system for almost fifty years, and I won't feel guilty at all for collecting my benefits. When your time comes, I bet you won't refuse it either.



You were forced to.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 07:05 PM

Dirt and James-Go cash your Alaska welfare sub.
Posted By: James

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 07:09 PM

I bet he doesn't turn down the AK permanent fund dividend, Boco.

Jim
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Boco
Dirt and James-Go cash your Alaska welfare sub.


There is none anymore. My royalties are now being used to feed ducks. Guess what! I'll survive without it. Apparently, they can't.
Posted By: James

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 07:17 PM

Nonsense. The AK permanent fund dividend program is still passing out checks.

If you want to use yours to feed ducks. go for it.

Jim
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by James
Nonsense. The AK permanent fund dividend program is still passing out checks.

If you want to use yours to feed ducks. go for it.

Jim


Last I knew is it was vetoed. Anything finalized yet?

Jim, you are a duck! I'm feeding you,
Posted By: James

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 07:25 PM

Did you apply for a check, Dirt?

Jim
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by James
Dirt, I wasn't even born when SS was enacted. Go find someone else to blame.

I paid into the system for almost fifty years, and I won't feel guilty at all for collecting my benefits. When your time comes, I bet you won't refuse it either.




Typical pass the buck mentality.

You were born before the government started up a 29 trillion dollar deficit.

Is that what you going to tell the grand kids?

"We are sorry little Timmy and Tina, I know the federal debt is 29 trilllion, SSI liability is 21 trillion and Medicare is 33 trillion. Piece of cake"
Posted By: James

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 07:29 PM

You passed the buck too, Steven. Aside from complaining, what have you done about the national debt?

Jim
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by James
Did you apply for a check, Dirt?

Jim


Yes. I own the oil.[Linked Image]
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by James
You passed the buck too, Steven. Aside from complaining, what have you done about the national debt?

Jim


There isn't much I can do except not ever vote for another candidate whose platform requires unlimited money creation and try to educate others about the danger of it.

Let's face it I'm vastly outnumbered even in the conservative party.

I imagine I'll start getting involved in the local caucus.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 08:15 PM

"Phase two in the politics of Social Security dates to the mid-1990s with the rise of Republican House Majority Leader Newt Gingrich and his ideologically driven brand of politics. During President Clinton’s and George W. Bush’s tenure, the push for privatization and cutting benefits moved from the fringes into the mainstream. Clinton flirted with partial privatization and Bush spent considerable political capital in 2005 pushing his own partial privatization plan. Bush’s effort failed to gather much popular support, though. Part of the reason is that voters weren’t convinced Social Security was in crisis, let alone in danger of imminent collapse, notes William Galston, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution in a retrospective analysis. Public doubts about personal accounts intensified the more people learned of the details, adds Galston.

Nonetheless, conservatives have continued to embrace this rhetoric. Current House Speaker Paul Ryan has been a long-time proponent of privatizing Social Security in his various budget proposals and one staple of modern conservative commentary has been that the swelling ranks of boomers is pushing the U.S. toward an inevitable fiscal crisis unless benefits are cut.

Until now. Although dating transformations is always a tricky business, historians may well highlight the beginning of the third shift in the politics of Social Security to March 10, 2016. During the Republican debate in Miami that night, CNN’s Jake Tapper asked: “What you candidates intend to do to keep Social Security going for future generations?” Sen. Marco Rubio focused on raising the retirement age; Sen. Ted Cruz and Gov. John Kasich mentioned private accounts. This was the standard rhetoric of phase two Social Security conservatism.

Then, Donald Trump weighed in, saying “and it’s my absolute intention to leave Social Security the way it is. Not increase the age and to leave it as is.” Says Jacobs: “I was watching that debate when he made that statement. The contrast between Trump and everyone else. He has a strong sense of his supporters, Tea Partiers and seniors.” "
Posted By: GritGuy

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 08:36 PM

If you don't want to use it, don't apply for it, your still going to pay into though, unless there is some sort of a large movement for a different program instead of more smoke and mirrors plans, it's will just dissolve on it's own !

While it's totally unfair for that to happen for all the people who are paying into it and those waiting to use it, politicians don't want to jeopardize their continued careers on a cash cow taken by them from the public and used nefariously for other things continually against what it was solely design for, it's just to easy to manipulate around it or move it to something else !

Until the people of this country totally agree that our politicians are corrupt with money ideas and they work with each other in shady rooms with each other to help them selves to our dollars, nothing is going to change how tings are done in this country, short of a reversal of how to get things done, we already see how that ends up in so many other countries now !

It's ugly, still does not work and it is a total nightmare.

Some how our congress and state legislators need to be made to understand that this country is being run right off the edge of civility and into total chaos !!
Posted By: cfowler

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by GritGuy
....this country is being run right off the edge of civility and into total chaos !!


It seems to have been planned that way.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 09:46 PM

"Entropy: The Hidden Force
That Complicates Life


Entropy, a measure of disorder, explains why life seems to get more, not less, complicated as time goes on.

***

All things trend toward disorder. More specifically, the second law of thermodynamics states that “as one goes forward in time, the net entropy (degree of disorder) of any isolated or closed system will always increase (or at least stay the same).”[1]

Entropy is simply a measure of disorder and affects all aspects of our daily lives. In fact, you can think of it as nature’s tax.[2]

Left unchecked disorder increases over time. Energy disperses, and systems dissolve into chaos. The more disordered something is, the more entropic we consider it. In short, we can define entropy as a measure of the disorder of the universe, on both a macro and a microscopic level. The Greek root of the word translates to “a turning towards transformation” — with that transformation being chaos."
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 09:52 PM

I dont need no stinking SS or MA. I'm a trapper! Imma catch beaver, makr some cozy thongs and feast on beav!

Coonman, take note.
Posted By: upstateNY

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Cedar Hacker
One fix would be for the general fund to pay the social security trust fund what it is owed.

The largest debt owed by the federal government is to the SSTF. They have been taking excess funds for years and writing IOU's to the SSTF.

BINGO,,,we have a winner !!
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 10:19 PM

Those IOUs are being paid back as we speak and will run out in 2034..
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 10:23 PM

I'm sure the Fed would like to double their ownership of 12% treasuries to 24%. Abracadabra! 3 trillion into SSI trust fund.!

"Total amount invested 2,860,161,145,000
Average interest rate a 2.371%"

Too bad you are paying the interest to yourselves. frown
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 10:25 PM

Eventually the FED will be the only entity buying treasuries
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Eventually the FED will be the only entity buying treasuries


I believe their are some laws that force some mutual funds to buy them? Those interest rates are attractive. smile
Posted By: upstateNY

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Those IOUs are being paid back as we speak and will run out in 2034..

BS.The payroll tax hike of 1983 (Ronny Regan) was supposed to make Social Security solvent for pretty much EVER.Not a DIME went into the fund.Were you even born then??
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 11:01 PM

"Off-Budget" Again-

In the 1983 Social Security Amendments a provision was included mandating that Social Security be taken "off-budget" starting in FY 1993. This was a recommendation from the National Commission on Social Security Reform (aka the Greenspan Commission). The Commission's report argued: "The National Commission believes that changes in the Social Security program should be made only for programmatic reasons, and not for purposes of balancing the budget. Those who support the removal of the operations of the trust funds from the budget believe that this policy of making changes only for programmatic reasons would be more likely to be carried out if the Social Security program were not in the unified budget." (Note that this was a majority recommendation of the Commission, not the unanimous view of all members.) This change was in fact enacted into statute in the Social Security Amendments of 1983, signed into law by President Reagan on April 20, 1983.

The actual form of the 1983 change was somewhat complex. It provided:

1) That the Social Security and Medicare trust funds (and the income and outgo to these funds) be treated as separate budget functions, starting with the 1985 fiscal year and ending with fiscal year 1992.

2) For the initial budget year after enactment (FY 1984) the Congress would be bound to use the new procedures but the executive branch would not (because the FY 1984 President's budget had already been submitted to Congress under the old rules).

3) Starting with fiscal year 1993, Social Security and the Medicare Part A trust funds were not only off-budget, but were exempted from any general budget reductions that might otherwise apply to the entire federal budget (such as an across-the-board cut). The Part B Medicare trust fund, while also to be shown as a separate budget function, was not protected from general budget limitations.

Thus, in this rather complicated fashion, the Social Security program was again off-budget by FY 1985. Perhaps the more important date here, however, was the 1993 date because that date exempted the Social Security program from the potential of generalized budget-cuts

.Historyof the so-called Trust Fund

Source: Social Security Administration

" Summary-

So, to sum up:

1- Social Security was off-budget from 1935-1968;
2- On-budget from 1969-1985;
3- Off-budget from 1986-1990, for all purposes except computing the deficit;
4- Off-budget for all purposes since 1990.

Finally, just note once again that the financing procedures involving the Social Security program have not changed in any fundamental way since they were established in the original Social Security Act of 1935 and amended in 1939. These changes in federal budgeting rules govern how the Social Security program is accounted for in the federal budget, not how it is financed."

" The Social Security trust funds, managed by the Department of the Treasury, are the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) and Disability Insurance (DI) Trust Funds. Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government.

There are two general types of such securities:

special issues—securities available only to the trust funds; and
public issues—securities available to the public (marketable securities).

The trust funds now hold only special issues, but they have held public issues in the past."
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/12/21 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by upstateNY
Originally Posted by Steven 49er
Those IOUs are being paid back as we speak and will run out in 2034..

BS.The payroll tax hike of 1983 (Ronny Regan) was supposed to make Social Security solvent for pretty much EVER.Not a DIME went into the fund.Were you even born then??


Why yes in fact I was. Even if I hadn't what difference would it make. It's not my fault you didn't understand what happened with the surplus money
Posted By: Steven 49er

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/13/21 12:10 AM

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4a3.html

Pretty good chart right from the SSA how much money has been received and spent the last 70 years.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 09/13/21 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Steven 49er
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4a3.html

Pretty good chart right from the SSA how much money has been received and spent the last 70 years.


[Linked Image]

Good job staying near the top of the pyramid. smile
Posted By: Muskrat Love

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 10/04/21 01:33 AM

Interesting article for those interested and want to read the ENTIRE article, you may find your answer!

https://www.ncpssm.org/entitledtokn...aying-into-social-security-for-the-year/

If EVERYONE paid their 6% SS tax on their total wages, and EVERYONE paid their fair share of Federal Income Tax, s lot of problems would be resolved!

Not thinking from a rainbow fxrting unicorn, just common sense!
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 10/04/21 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Muskrat Love
Interesting article for those interested and want to read the ENTIRE article, you may find your answer!

https://www.ncpssm.org/entitledtokn...aying-into-social-security-for-the-year/

If EVERYONE paid their 6% SS tax on their total wages, and EVERYONE paid their fair share of Federal Income Tax, s lot of problems would be resolved!

Not thinking from a rainbow fxrting unicorn, just common sense!


I read it. No thanks. I pay enough taxes and am not interested in paying more. I want to pay less..

The article advocates for wealth redistribution and more welfare.
Posted By: Muskrat Love

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 10/04/21 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by Blaine County
Originally Posted by Muskrat Love
Interesting article for those interested and want to read the ENTIRE article, you may find your answer!

https://www.ncpssm.org/entitledtokn...aying-into-social-security-for-the-year/

If EVERYONE paid their 6% SS tax on their total wages, and EVERYONE paid their fair share of Federal Income Tax, s lot of problems would be resolved!

Not thinking from a rainbow fxrting unicorn, just common sense!


I read it. No thanks. I pay enough taxes and am not interested in paying more. I want to pay less..

The article advocates for wealth redistribution and more welfare.


Blaine County,

https://datausa.io/profile/geo/blaine-county-ok

We'll, you must be that guy that owns all the oil wells in OK.
Posted By: Quartermastersir

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 10/04/21 02:23 AM

Percentages Ranked
by AGI
AGI Threshold on
Percentiles
Adjusted Gross Income Share
Share of Federal
Personal Income Tax
Paid
Ratio of Percentage
of Personal Income
Tax Paid to AGI Share
Top 1% $515,371 21.04% 38.47% 1.83
Top 5% $208,053 36.53% 59.14% 1.62
Top 10% $145,135 47.74% 70.08% 1.47
Top 25% $83,682 69.14% 86.10% 1.25
Top 50% $41,740 88.75% 96.89% 1.09
Bottom 50% <$41,740 11.25% 3.11% 0.28

So what is the definition of "fair share".
Posted By: NonPCfed

Re: Social Security and Medicare - 10/04/21 02:39 AM

Quote
Blaine County,

https://datausa.io/profile/geo/blaine-county-ok

We'll, you must be that guy that owns all the oil wells in OK.


Probably not too many "counselors" in a pop of less than 10k unless he uses his tman name as a dodge...
© 2024 Trapperman Forums