Transitions

Had an interesting Sunday in church this past weekend. Toward the end of the service our pastor mentioned two or three people wanted to share some things with the congregation so he brought them up one by one.

Alison was the last to share what was on her heart. I had never seen Alison in our church before but as she moved forward she certainly looked like a woman and sounded like one when she began to speak. It wasn't long into her story when Alison told us she had been born a boy and her given name was Alan before she transitioned into a female body.

It seems Alison has made her peace with God. She counseled with our pastor and asked him if she would be a man or a woman at the resurrection. He told her she had been born a male and would be resurrected as a male. Alison is going to transition back into a male body. I have no idea how that works.

Sounds like it would have been a good day for your preacher to preach on 1 Corinthians 6.

Any verse in particular?

Lost in space.
Pick one and stick with it.

It seems like it should be illegal to perform expensive surgery on mentally ill people, to make them into something they're not. The person wanting the surgery should at least have to undergo years of psychiatric help and have their surgery signed off on by a psychiatrist if they find the person sane.

Keith

On the one hand I feel sad for people like Alan/Alison. Can any of us imagine the painful inner turmoil these people experience? America is such a materially successful nation that our citizens can afford to explore every possible angle of personal identity, food allergies, pronoun preferences, feelings, shared identities with animals etc This is all quite extravagant, because usually humans must spend their time finding food, water, shelter etc. What a rich country we are that our people can explore these questions they have!
On the other hand, Alan/Alison is an example of how having too much material success can cause a nation and its people to disintegrate from hedonism. I’m not just meaning morality, which is obviously in play here, but also things as simple as basic identity, loyalty, focus, purpose, the building blocks of any human society be it a Pawnee clan living in tipis out on the Plains in 1800 or small New England town in upstate Vermont in 1975.
America is falling over a cliff because our elected leaders and regular old citizens alike think we don’t have to be loyal to our own town or village or nation, and that selling it out to make some vague symbolic statement about humanity in general is sustainable.
All this relativism being taught over the past fifty years has hollowed out America’s core.
People think America is too big to fail…. And it’s not. We are failing, dying.

I can’t even imagine wanting to be a woman.

I try not to be judgemental to people like Alan but my Bible/Church/Mom have always taught me this is perverse and wrong, and that judging people is left unto God.
So I look at them and wonder if they're going to Heaven or not.
I took a moment to review 1 Corinthians 6

God will stand in final Judgement

And pay for it all themselves.

Good for Alan. Sounds as if the Spirit has convicted him, and Alan listened, to live life as intended at birth.

Can you imagine the testimony Alan will have to share for years to come. Maybe will help in changing others hearts before they take a drastic measure such as a sex change operation.

So, after Allen Alison's story did the other two bother to share, or just sat back down with, "I can't top that!"

She went last. Actually, pastor did. He mentioned that the same people who celebrated Alan becoming a woman would despise her for transitioning back to a man.

19-20. 9-11.

Basically that the body is your temple and you should not defile it in any way that would not be pleasing to God. But also note the use of the word effeminate in verse 9.

Regardless, if Alan has realized his sin and is turning from it, verse 11 shows it's clearly not too late for him.

Who cares and why would this matter to anyone else other than Alan?

So the Marks and Works of the Acts 2 divinely ordained church are such that I'm not sure what this pastor is doing?
Does he have a position as an overseer or elder, and what do the other elders say?

The question for any pastor is..... where are "you" putting your teaching into the divinely ordained calling of Christ's Church?
Is it for Christ or for the world... or both or? We ask pastors all the time, "what are you thinking?"
Tough question BUT it must be debated among elders or any elder may go rogue and inject cultural causes ahead of Jesus.... which is often the case in the Western churches today.

3 Marks
Orthodox (right thinking) teaching
Order (church leadership)
Ordinances (sacrements)

3 Works
Exaltation (worship to God)
Edification (build up the body)
Evangelism (spread the Gospel news)

Wonder where pastor would fit his teaching?

Blessings,
Mark

It's a common practice for Christians to share their testimony with other in the church. We all have a story to tell and they're welcomed by other believers. I love listening to believers tell me how God saved them out of the world.

Start your own church (many do) and preach/teach whatever you want.
Christ's Church is a Holy ordained body of believers until such time as Jesus returns.
As such, there are stern biblical warnings for any church leader whose teachings are false.
It should force deep thinking and much conversation within all church leadership roles.

Alan is by grace given the ability to make decisions.
What Posco is talking about is church goings-ons.
The church of the God of the Bible will always be ordained as members of a body.
No one person, not even a bishop, elder, or deacon holds rank in God's Kingdom.

X2 any time someone chooses to listen and follow the Holy Spirit is reason for celebration in my opinion

It seemed to be edifying perhaps?

That's what testimonials are most often.
Paul's epistles are witness to suffering and are considered edifying for believers. .

Wow, it's been awhile since I read a thread this interesting. I agree with Angela.

There's almost always a good story behind being passed from death unto life. I enjoy listening to how God worked that out in other believers lives.

1 Corinthians 6 comes after 1 Corinthians 5..... for an inspired reason.

These passages are known as Paul's teaching believers at the church of Corinth of their "1st" error; they are listening to those who pervert the Gospel by using human wisdom to say;
freedom from the Law means freedom from God's desires.
It doesn't (5:1 - 6:20).

Paul, by Apostolic authority, rebukes false teachers and exhorts the believers to be imitators of him (v. 4:16), called by the will of God (v 1).

Blessings,
Mark

If you want your Kids or Grandkids to be duped , and bring an "it" home then it doesn't matter.

But that's the Dating world our Grandkids face.

My question is if we profess we're all sinners saved by grace though Jesus' servanthood, then all of us are..... sinners.
And testimonials are always great witness to the power of the Spirit.

The early church was a place of edification but it was also a place of discipline >>>> typically conducted at the Lord's Table, and always done for the good of the believer (1 Cor 5).
So we must thread lightly and carefully as elder teams on what is appropriate to teach and preach at every level of church.

A believer in Corinth is sleeping with his father's wife and Paul says discipline that man by delivering him to satan. A little leaven (sin) permeates the while lump of dough (5:6).

Great theology and above all that, it's God's Truth because He and He alone runs the church.
Do we profess that.... and act like that?
Does the pastor submit to the elders?
Depends. On the church. And the people's maturity according to the New Testament writers, realizing that there wasn't a perfect church in the 1st century and there's no perfect church now.
Christ will usher in His perfection when He comes again.

Blessings,
Mark

Are you taking issue with the way the pastor counseled Alison, Mark?

Oh, I have no opinion from afar.
Just wondered did the pastor say "the elders and I" as he teed up what was taught and presented to the chruch?
Or no? It was a pastor led teaching.

Something as controversial as this is, should ALWAYS be discussed by the episcopal (overseer) and presbyters (elders) according to the Bible prior to teaching.

Alan was the one to testify. He wanted people to care and take notice

I'll ask him.

I wonder if they wouldn't feel such need to change their body to fit their thought if they weren't told they had to be this or that

I see so many young people trying to "fit a brand " or Find a label that fits for them

they end up searching for the description that fits them and end up sounding like some coffee drink at a Starbucks , you hear them say it and they might as well be saying I am a Venti , dark roast with a shot of cream ,and extra shot , 1 pump of hazelnut , 2 pumps mocha , 2 ounces of soy milk steamed. ( maybe even more complex than that but my Starbucks knowledge is quite limited)

wouldn't it be easier to say I am a child of god and I am who I am I like the things I like

if you like to wear a skirt , wear it , like to bake pies bake them, things and activities don't need to have such gender attached to them.

I don't think body modification is a good idea in any form if you are a small chested person and want big breasts , breasts don't make you who you are.

I can see better if you have a very large heavy chest and you want to reduce it because it hurts your back.

Sounds like you hang out at starbucks.

I would think that we could worry about some real important stuff, you know like something that just might happen. Alans business is his own and should be treated as any other personal problem, privately. ( my kids and grandkids a pretty good at reading sign).

I don't think it's possible to reverse the procedure. At this time.

If you think about it, someone that tries to switch genders must have some serious self-hate for the person God made them to be. Much sin is born out of a desire to find something to fill that God-shaped hole in all of us. For someone to finally find the cure for their perversion is a cause for celebration, regardless of what the perversion is, and all sin is a perversion of what God intended.

I see the main issue as being unscrupulous doctors charging a huge amount of money to perform risky, permanently disfiguring surgery on a mentally disabled person. In the US, we generally protect the disabled from being taken advantage of, as we should.

Keith

Y'all know there are many "transgenders" that have "transitioned" from a male to a female and still have all their parts, right?

What is he going to do with that closet full of purses and shoes he doesn't need anymore?

You know this how?? Lol

From reading, lol. It's like you don't really want to read the article about them but it's like a trainwreck and you just can't help it.

Lol point taken

Maybe the OP can get you his/her number so you can complete your transition too.

You win this round. I can't top that.