Is Rat a Rat?

Was talking to a couple accomplished trappers on scout day in the swamp. Told them Robin said not to buy a unit this year. Figures rats are too cheap. They both perked up, their wives had the same sentiments, citing markets, age and time away.

Wayne offered an alternative, “if I don’t buy a unit, I’m heading to ND for 2 months. Least this way I’m home every night.”

That statement redirected the conversation. He went on to say how a rat just isn’t a rat. Or a coyote a coyote. ND rats are much easier to trap. They climb on everything and will even step in traps that are sitting out of water. And coyotes, they actually respond to calls said he shot as many as 7 in one day where at home one a week if you’re luck y.

I also recall another fella a few years ago that struggled all winter to catch 400 here, in the marsh, went out there and caught 4000.

Am I missing the boat?

Work Harder?
Work Smarter?
Follow the Water?

Rats need water, and there was a shortage of it from Minnesota and west this year. You might be better off heading east to where it rained all summer long!

Don't go too far East, we had rain all summer, lots of water, still no muskrats.

Trap while your able, tomorrow is promised to no one.

Wonder if it has to do with human pressure?

I don't know how much a unit costs, but I can't imagine buying a unit

X2. That applies wether you’re 60 or 40. I’m not sure if we have any fur market in five years. Sad to say if China drops out of the market we are done.

I just got back from ND on a fishing trip. The area I trapped Is all dried up catching any number of rats would be just about impossible.
And trapping or calling coyotes would be the way to go. But your going to have to spend some time getting permission and that won't be easy. Most of these large and owners are snow birds and are gone once the crops are out. Or they lease out their land and don't live In the area.

Rats In ND when you have rats will climb on anything you put out. But you have to have your traps 2" under water when using stools but your traps can be completely exposed if your using floats. That's one thing I can't figure out.
I think rats are a different breed In ND then the ones In WI. You can't get a rat to climb on stool or a float In my area of WI In the fall season. But rats are all over stools and floats In the fall In ND. WE don't have a spring season In WI so I don't know how stools and floats would work here In the spring. But In ND you need to be checking twice a day to keep your traps working.

I believe you are missing something

I hope wayne would be planning on coyotes and not rats. Has Wayne been to ND lately? See Gary's post, it brings me comfort he was finally able to get out there and see it for himself. That 400 feller, did he trap those 4000 in the winter? Trapping under the ice?

Nah, you aren't missing the boat. That's a present or future tense term. The boat has sailed.

A rat is a rat. Food availability , climate and type of habitat make them behave differently.

Well the rain finally showed up here yesterday....figures, pheasant opener and I could of floated the boat down the street. To late to help any rats but anything to break this drought is welcome.

Thanks Beav for your insight.
49er it was winter and spring so not apples to apples however I believe he worked harder for the 400 than the 4000.
Hammer I tend to think Wayne is on to something. I would theorize it’s sheer numbers. The higher the population the better the cooperation. I on the long haul we likely catch less in terms of percentages over populations.

On another note he said the coyotes are the prettiest he’s ever harvested.

And any ditch or pond that has water Is pretty low. So most of these spots will freeze out this winter.

I caught up with a coyote trapper on my fishing trip. He showed me his FHA results on his coyotes. Had 10 at $100.00+ and never had a coyotes under $50.00. I think he had 50 some coyotes. He said all he did was snare them. They do have some good coyotes In ND.

There were several times when I took a rat out of my set and watched another rat swim up and get In that same trap while I was standing about 3 feet away. I never had that happen In WI. But of coarse that was during the spring season.

Depends............. on if we get any snow this winter.

Chris you had to see it and live it to believe it.

The new or not so new conditions in SD, ND and many parts of Northern MN is quite the change from the past 25 or so years. I don't think Gary believed me all that much when I mentioned of it.

I tell myself it's all part of the circle. Hopefully, we'll get another up cycle. We'll see.

Having driven from one end to the other of this state I can't believe the difference in water levels. We got 2 inches last night, we get some snow and some spring rains, who knows.

It took years to get the water level to where they were, literally decades. It's going to have to snow a bunch and back to back years wouldn't hurt

Do you get a heavy wet snow that melts in the fall?We almost always get that here and it brings all the water back high before freeze up,even years like this one where the creeks are all dried up and the rivers low.

Interesting concept, and I see what you’re saying. Whitetails are tougher to hunt some places than others. Some species fish are easier to catch some places than others.

Is this correlation related to pressure? Habits? Populations?

Easy answer , find the abundant populations, with less pressure, and your take will be greater.

But I agree, there’s something to this

We fished stump lake and the water level was down at lest 4 feet. And same with all the other lakes we fished.If they get freezing temps before they get any melting snow It's going kill off a lot of rats that are still there.

You knucklehead, snow is an insulator. I've seen very few sloughs freeze completely to the bottom throughout.

Something to think about Gary, Devils Lake is probably 35 to 40 feet higher now than the 1940s. Is the lake down? Or is it up?

The extreme snow fall of 09, 10, 11 led to the rat boom, yeah the high summer water made it possible but without that thick layer of snow most sloughs would of froze down them years also. The winter of 13 with weeks of subzero temps and no snow all winter, most the sloughs froze down and killed most the rats.. 2013 you could drive anywhere on Devils Lake and needed an extension to get through the 38" to 40" of ice. The sloughs I was taking 100-200 rats out of in 10, 11 and 12 were baron of rats the winter of 13. That was my experience anyhow..

and as for ND rats being more apt to climb on things than rats east of here perhaps it's the lack of aerial predation and how dense our cattails are? It's not like there are a lot of perches here..lol

And I said if they don't get any snow before they get freezing temps. If you have 12" of water In ditch or pond and you get freezing temps it's going to freeze down In few days.
And yes Devil's lake Is down from what It was last year.

Do rats adapt to our methods making future generations more difficult to catch?

[quote=nimzy]Do rats adapt to our methods making future generations more difficult to catch?[/I have to think rats are stupid and that’s why rats, rabbits ,rodents in general reproduce like they do . They will get spooked sometimes pounding on houses in the winter but they don’t quit using houses I have seen rats go around colony traps I think about one spot were I caught maybe a dozen rats in a run and all of a sudden they made a run going around trap or occasionally had them plug pockets so maybe your not crazy to wonder. It’s all about survival instincts .Only thing making them harder to trap for future generations however will be no fur market.

it takes a while for ditches to freeze down to bottom.The ground has to freeze first.The ground continues to freeze down when the snow on the surface is melting in spring.
Some creeks and ditches dry up if they are fed by bush run off when the ground freezes.This often leaves shell ice here on beaver ponds especially..See this here in feb/march when the bush run off freezes up solid.its a funny feeling walking to a beaver house on the ice,only to have it collapse en masse,and drop you 3 feet onto dry ground.

Some blackmuck bogs here never freeze even when the clay is frozen down 10 feet.

It is never a given in any year.

The problem Is that all the rat dens are now exposed. So even if that 12" of water doesn't completely freeze to the bottom the rats are still homeless. It's going to take some time for the rats In ND to make a come back.

I have much respect for rodents, muskrats and beaver. When under pressure, I believe they condition themselves to survive. Perhaps it’s a prey instinct. They are masters of avoidance and have the ability warn their comrades of danger. IMO that is the reason our catch generally plummets after 2 or 3 checks. My money says we usually leave more behind than we catch. Sometimes it takes humility to appreciate our adversaries.

. Rats are my friends not my adversary. LOL. The higher animal numbers are the easier they are to trap this applies to all fur bearers. It is natures survival instinct. Always amazed by beavers engineering skills . Humility? I love trapping rats but you can overthink the whole fur harvesting deal. IMO

Yea I’m the classic over thinker

. Preferable to not thinking Interesting thread. I think trapping about every day. Cloudy fall day gets the trapping bug going.

We are closing in. I still have too much work and won’t get out till thanksgiving. Which isn’t far off either.

Humility is when them little buggers get the best of you. Been there done that!

Old construction saying. You gotta crack an egg to make a cake. Drought is just Mother Nature starting over.

Patiently awaiting her next masterpiece:)

Communication coming back from the dead or from the living?

IMO, a rat is pretty much a rat. Different habits in different habitats, but find where the food is and you'll catch them. Adapting to the conditions can be the hard part. Floods, heavy snow, bad ice, etc, etc forces us to make substantial adjustments and that can be difficult. Sometimes you just can't deal with a spot that's temporarily messed up. Lots of adjustments and Plan Bs when rat trapping

I believe both. Rats are highly social. Isn’t social, defined by, the ability to communicate? It would seem odd that such a well defined community wouldn’t communicate.

The thing about the area I trap In ND Is that we have great cattail marshes and the water depth Is about 4' but you never encounter any rat huts all the rats live In bank dens. Sure you may see a few huts In shallow water ponds but 95% of the rats are In the banks.It does make It easier to catch them.

Why do you think bank rats are “easier” to catch? Or is it because they are Dakota rats? Everyone I know that has trapped out there tells similar tales.

Most guys that come from other places are serious trappers. Several of the ones I know trap here all their life then venture out there and shatter personal catch records. Are you one of them Beav?

To me that speaks volumes.

Why are bank rats easier to catch?

I suspect it's because they got to trap out of the pickup all day long with hip boots on.

Chris, did you ever drive out there and see it during the hay day?

Imagine the Horicon around what year was it? Say 2010, 2011? Now imagine that over half the state.

Yes one spring I traveled to SD and the following spring ND. Never took the opportunity to trap it though. In those few days I saw things I never saw anywhere else and I have many hours of field work.

I have an occupation that compliments trapping but there are limits. Probably won’t work forever tho!

There will be another rat boom in the Dakotas some day. I don't imagine it will ever be to the level of the last one but none the less there will be one.

Hope we live long enough to see it. I'll move if I have to.

If Mother Nature cooperated (which she rarely does) should be one every 10 years:)

She better hurry up.

Chem trails LOL.

I'm going on a mrat scouting trip probably next Saturday northwest of me maybe 100 miles or so. Has to be some rat huts in sloughs somewhere. Eastern SD got baked bad this year but not as bad as the Nodakers. That was epic...

NonPCFed-

It's pretty bad this year. I've put in a lot of miles from the ND border down to around Huron, and the huts just aren't popping up. Last year I hit several sloughs where I could soak 100+ traps on each. This year I can maybe soak 100+ spread across 3 or 4 locations with nothing to reset behind them. Its weird because we have maintained some water but the rats have all but disappeared. I would bet my catch is going to be down 60-70% at least. It's unfortunate because I finally have all the time in the world to trap this year.