Entry Level AR

I'm thinking about getting my 1st AR platform rifle. I am looking for something under $700, flat top, free floated handrail, 16-18" barrel.

It was a slow weekend so I started researching.....good lord, there is a lot of info out there! It is hard to tell the good info from the bad as I don't have a good vocabulary on the guns yet.

I was looking at a PSA MOE blem lower, but it seems like there is a major love/hate with the company. They also have a .223wylde 16" lower with a 1:8 twist. Anyone have any opinions on PSA guns?

Pros/Cons regarding:

16" vs 18" barrel
5.56 vs .223 wylde
What is best barrel twist to look for if majority of shooting would be with 55ish gr ammo. It seems a lot are mil spec at 1:7 which seems super fast.

I have had no issue with the PSA rifles

buy the kit and build it on an Anderson if you can find them locally for reasonable money

had my sons PSA on an anderson at a 3 gun match 2 weeks ago

honestly if I were to build it again today only thing I would change is the scope mount as it is no longer available and the Vortex 2 inch cantilevered mount is a better design.

he was first round hits at 200 , 300 and at 400 he missed but had a nice group going in the sand right below the target that he couldn't see through the 2-7 , it was an ammunition issue he had found a box of my old handload and loaded it rather than my current load , it dropped off sooner than the new load does but the group was nice



at 2X also no issue running as close as about 5 yards on some paper targets that covers the possible range fairly well 5-400 yards with the correct ammo

the scope has a BDC retical on 7x it has hashes that line up at 1.5, 4.5 , 7.5 and 11 MOA as well as 2,4,6 moa right left for wind hold over

S&W MP15 is a decent starter.

What do you want to do with it? That will determine how much you ought to pay.

Go with a 1 in 7 if you going to hunt with it.

I have the same rifle. I bought it as a SHTF gun. I like it.

Probably shoot it a few times and put it in the safe. Maybe the occasional "fun shoot" with the guys. Curious why 1:7 would be for hunting, DK?

1:7 stabalizes a heavier bullet better also long for weight bullets like all copper bullets

i wouldn't sweat it a 1:8 will stabalize thing up to 70gr well

you are more likely to find a budget 1:7 because that is what the military is using currently so the tooling is paid for by contracts then they can produce more for private market on the same tooling


common twist rates are 1:9 , 1:8 and 1:7

1:9 bullet optimal range is 45-63

1:8 is 62-77gr

1:7 is 69-80gr

that is optimal the 1:7 in the picture I posted shoots 55gr hornady soft points about an inch at 100 yards

i have a heavy barrel 1 in 8 that shoots the same load into about 4 1/2 inches at 400 yards

for hunting bullets up to deer in size 55gr Hornady soft points work but don't expect exit wounds and keep off the shoulder

Winchester makes a 64gr power point that is decent for deer

the barns triple shock TSX stuff is good but expensive

Build one.

PSA you can buy a upper and lower pretty cheap lately.

Good informative post....does the S and W M&P 15 come in Wylde?

I would look at Bear Creek Arsenal. They have a number of options in the $511-560 range. It would leave you money for a scope. I would go 1-8 twist in a 223 Wylde.

All spot on but might also point out it doesn't hurt as much to spin a bullet faster as not enough. Lighter can do okay in fast twist but usually not heavier in slow.

no but don't get hung up on it needing to be wylde 223/5.56nato chambers work find

wylde gets you slightly different chamber specs on the throat and lead which can make it shoot more accurately , however few people shoot well enough to notice the difference in most cases especally in an entry level rifle

also if you have a standard handguard you likely more than negate any difference that the chamber could make

when shooting with a sling you can see the effect of the sling pulling on the barrel when not running a free float handguard , putting the sling attachment mid handguard and not on the sling loop under the front sight made a difference for me to make it less effect the group when shooting from a sling

for complete guns that you can probably buy at a lcoal store the S&W and Ruger are good

building has it's benefits even if you order a PSA lower complete and an upper complete there is typically some savings not buying a complete rifle there is a tax on complete rifles not paid if you assemble your own.

Another note on twist. The older A1 twist of 1:12 was optimized for the 55gr pill to just barely stabilize it and not much more as M193 military ball ammo depended upon yaw or destabilizing upon impact to increase wounding potential.

If you come across one of these stay away unless you're building a retro A1 clone. M193 ball is fun to shoot but there are better options available these days.

very true , the 55gr shoot fine to 400 for us from 1:7 never tried further the 55gr Hornady soft points shoot fine to 500 for us from the 1:8 never tried further

FMJ bullets are formed tip to tail and soft points are tail to tip , this changes the balance of bullets and may have more effect than the twist

62gr green tips are a steel tip and don't balance as well as lead core soft points and hollow points

the twist of your barrel be it 7, 8 or 9 probably makes less difference on 55-69gr ammo than the ammo it's self if you shoot heavy bullets you need more twist , hoe many of us really shoot 77gr or heavier , probably not that many I get good hits at 400 on targets from inexpensive 55gr soft points I was buying for 100 dollars the thousand they are about 129 per thousand now that is the shortage we live in. (bullet not loaded ammo prices)

Its stamped 5.56 NATO 1/9 twist. I dont think S&W offer different uppers if you wanted something a bit more performance wise. The regular M&P 15 comes with a 1/8 twist barrel and some more upgrades, but costs about twice as much...So if you wanted something a little more .223 friendly for longer range shooting, youd have to track down another upper or look at another gun completely.

Here is a mid length kit you would need a stripper lower to complete
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-kit-with-mbus-sight-set-5165449492.html


They also have a carbine lenght kit for a few dollars less

it has iron sights that come with it and their EPT trigger it is a step up from base level trigger it is their enhanced polished trigger.


here is a blem complete lower with the EPT trigger for 140 https://palmettostatearmory.com/blem-psa-ar-15-complete-lower-magpul-moe-ept-edition-black.html

here is an upper with sights , charging handle and BCG for 300 https://palmettostatearmory.com/lab...e-upper-with-mbus-rear-bcg-ch-black.html

440 +shipping and transfer fee for an AR is about as cheap as it gets

you can go up from there if you want the free float or other features look for the upper you want

hard to beat that lower for 140 a LPK lower parts kit with MOE stock and EPT trigger is 70 for the LPK and 50 for the stock and buffer tube even if you can get a stripper lower for 50 dollars your over what they have the built one for.

Right now you ought to be able to find several decent 15’s for $700.

Checked out Bear Creek Arsenal’s....nice variety....thanks MJM.
Opinions on their quality....you don’t hear much about them.

they are not what you would call top tier , highest quality stuff but if your not staking your life on it they are functional guns

I don't think bear creak manufactures much I think they mostly assemble from the parts they can source

if your planning on your target shooting back you might want to invest in BCM Bravo Company Manufacturing or LMT Lewis Machine Tool.

the major difference is in the QA having people quality check every part and every process takes time and time is cost.

most of the budget guns are OTDIG (out the door it goes) not just AR's but your 300-450 dollar bolt guns , 22s , express shotguns , basically any thing budget you are the QA sure they make sure it is safe but a no glaring issues check is about all you can expect out of budget.
when you buy a budget gun or anything but one you had a smith service for you .
you should expect to take it apart , clean and inspect , lube, re assemble and put Loctite on every screw that should have it.

think about the cost it would incur to run 2-3 boxes of shells through a gun + time and you still might not find the issue VS if you do happen to find something wrong a call tag to have it picked up at your door and bring it in for work is far less.

not bear creak but I have purchased an upper from another well known company it came with gas block screws that were not torqued , after about 20 rounds it stopped working I found the issue , I found that many other people had the same issue , admittedly it was a good price I think it was 319 for a Upper with free float hand guard and rail complete with BCG and CH. I took it apart tapped the gas block back to position and Loctited the screws been good for several years since