Marten study Colorado / Wyoming? Tagged marten #2

Do any of y'all know of a marten study in either Colorado or Wyoming?

Jerry caught a marten Wednesday in Wyoming but near Colorado line that has two metal tags..one in each ear with numbers but no other info

We have contacted both Colorado and Wyoming DNRs neither knows of any studies involving marten.

Maybe its a USFS study?

Here if somethings tagged they usually want snack info and that's all we are trying to find out.

Any help would be appreciated.

Could it be a transplanted/relocated nuisance animal?

Haven’t heard of any Cathryn

It could be anything.

He said iit has 67 in the left ear and 133 in the right.

Thanks for yalls input

Crawdads?

Maybe from Minnesoooooota;

https://files.dnr.state.mn.us/publications/wildlife/research2007/26_fisher_marten.pdf

From northern Minnesota? Only way a marten would move that far is by Devine intervention.

I had a lion tagged move 75 miles in two days in 2018. Animals tagged in SD end up killed in OK. I had a coyote tagged when I was in college years ago that I tagged in IA and it was killed in GA two years later. A male mink can travel 20 miles in a night during breeding season. Who knows?
Critters move around some times.

Cathryn - go back to the 2 states you mentioned. Lots of times you just are not talking to the right people. Would try Idaho and Utah also.

Up until 1986 furthest tagged marten recorded movement was 38 miles in Manitoba, Canada. Probably a longer record since then but as a rule the smaller the predator the shorter maximum dispersal distances are.

Roughly 800 mile straight line miles between where your marten caught and northern Minnesota. And well over 90% of it is non marten habitat like Nebraska.

One of the foremost marten biologists in North America is Steven Buskirk, Professor Emeritus at the University of Wyoming. Gonna try to contact him re. your information. Found an e-mail address to start with.

E-mail sent. Will advise as I may hear.

Cathryn: Get Jerry to pull off the GPS latitude and longitude coordinates where he caught that marten. Post on this thread - they will need that.

I think it was Audrey Magoun who had a tagging project going here. One she tagged was captured the following fall 80 miles away.

Gulo would have a better memory on this

When I lived in Kansas we had a load of logs for a log home show up. With 2 porky. Maybe the marten hitched a ride. whistle:

Ok got a reply from Buskirk. A real professional it appears as monitoring his e-mail on a Saturday evening even.

As I suggested he wants the location as this could be quite helpful in narrowing down the most likely possibilities.

"This could be a real puzzler, depending on where on the Colo. - Wyo. line it was caught. The only occupied habitat I know of along that line is in the Medicine Bow Mtns., in the Sierra Madre-Park Range to the east, and at the far western edge of the Colo.- Wyo. line along the Green River, but that only gets up to 8000' and has hardly any conifers. If you could give me more specifics, I can try to pursue this with my contacts in both states. Also, we have to consider the possibility that it was a captive animal escaped or released. Pretty interesting."

So it over to you Cathryn. Please post location (latitude/longitude and name(s) of some prominent feature or nearest town) on this tread so others interested can follow the trail too. I will in turn relay to Buskirk and similarly post as I may hear.

I have visually seen marten on Snowy Range just a few miles up the mountain west of Centennial Wyoming. Tom Krause used to trap marten on Snowy Range.

I have trapped them in the snowy's. Caught one with a tiny radio collar on it. In Cheyenne they told me the battery had dead for years. Biologist caught it in a cage trap only a few miles from where I did. I still have the collar.

Was this marten caught in what could be considered typical marten habitat?

Did they change the season used to be Dec1 for the Snowys.

It was caught in hog park in Wyoming.
He doesnt have a cell phone to figure out longitude and laritude

Thanks for any help

Its still Dec first. He doesnt trap marten in the snowys because hws long gone by Dec 1st

Yes

Long way from WA but we have been tagging for years? …..

It has 2 small metal tags one in each ear.

Thank y'all for trying to help unravel this mystery. I appreciate it alot.

Thank you Cathryn - location passed along to the biologist I am in touch with. Good enough for purposes of helping narrowing down original capture information.

That is really close to where I trapped Marten in the 1970’s in Colorado. There were lots of them there and in not your typical habitat, too.

How so?

My Son Bridger caught one north of Pinedale near the Green River also years ago.

He said he caught it hog park ...western side of the great divide near steamboat Springs
500 yards off the Colorado border
He takes the road from encampment sown there. Doesn't know the road number. Will check today

Hes trapped Wyoming for 32 yrs straight
He knows what typical marten habitat is?

He has harvested hundreds of marten.

How many years did you trap Wyoming?

He trapped near Duboise

Ok homing in on a study by USFS that ended about 12 years ago in that general area. Could take a while to find original data. This could be a very old marten. They have been documented to live at least 14 1/2 yrs old in the wild but that is rare.

Interesting!

Need the skull and teeth to do age. 12 is an extremely old age for marten.
I suppose you could say there is "typical" marten habitat but they can be regularly found in non typical habitat. Especially when their numbers are high.

We've seen numerous marten in the Snowies while elk hunting.
I'll reach out to some contacts as well here in Laramie.

By the way Buskirk was one of the spouses' professors at UW, great guy !

December Marten here on the Colorado/Wyoming border will grade semi at the auctions, I've had a few (very few) grade heavy. In October they most likely are still considered lights, or Western. Big price difference. Today in the Park Range, just below Hog Park in Wyoming we have more marten than I've ever seen in 35 years.

He doesn't start trapping marten till oct 15th. Waiting 2 weeks has seriously decreased his section. 3 numbers

Here is a pic of the habitat where he caught the marten.
Taken thia morning.

If I can get thw tooth or carcass where do I send it for aging?

To whom? Hes really interested to find out its history

It may already be aged from original capture. First premolar (immediately behind the lower canine tooth) is used for that. A very small tooth - if it is missing from behind one of the lower canines then chances are it was aged at original capture.

Standby and we see what Buskirk digs out. Jerry might want to hold unto the skull thought just in case it was not aged at original capture. Buskirk can probably arrange for that as they are doing that sort of thing all the time.

To all: with regard to when to trap marten we moved out season years ago to Nov. 1 from Oct. 15. Big difference in average grading results w a lot more grading heavy after Oct. 31. We took the idea that the marten are not going anywhere, and if you are not afraid to push a bit of snow, then Nov.1 will serve you better w regard to return for what you put into it. Can not speak to priming dates other areas but can also say that white leather does not necessarily equal heavy grade. Heavy grade follows whitening of the leather but is not hand in hand right away.

These guys have been doing it for a long time Cathryn.

https://matsonslab.com/

Grant Frost from Wyoming fish and game just called me and took the tag info. Said he's looking into the situation and will get back with me..

He wants me to see about getting the skull.

Buskirk just got back to me and says not the study he was thinking about as that was 25 years ago and not about 12 years ago as he originally guessed. So way beyond what a marten would live. The mystery deepens.

Hopefully Colorado is being checked where so close to there.

Ok looks like some marten recently captured near Steam Boat Springs which is in nearby Colorado. And Cathryn you already mentioned Steam Boat Springs. That would be by Colorado Fish and Wildlife permit then. Getting closer lol.

I caught them at much lower elevation than previously thought was needed.

Cathryn, you misunderstood my statement above and was not in the least critical.

I too trapped within 1/4 mile of the Wyoming border, west of the continental divide, near Damfino Creek and points south and west all the way down to Steamboat Lake/Clark, Colorado. This was in the 1970’s when I lived in Colorado. Caught a lot of marten up there and there were a lot more that I never got close to. Also found there were many marten at lower altitudes that would not be your typical habitat.

I can see there could be a lot of marten now along the Wy/Co border just west of the continental divide because it is such a remote area. When I trapped there never saw another trapper. Plus Colorado effectively doesn’t have many marten harvested with only cages these days so would expect there to be quite the dispersal north from that area.

Hope you solve your mystery.

TMI. Now the place will be crawling with marten trappers.

^^^^^
Not to likely; not for $20 marten.

Nobody traps for money now. It's all for adventure. I lost several hundred dollars trapping muskrats a few years ago. 30 miles each way. Sure was an experience and caught 180 mushrats. Some things you just can't put a price on.

marten are like coons. go right into a cage trap

Its crazy but he caught a 2nd tagged marten yesterday. Same raha.... 087 in the left ear and 155 in thw right. Both were females. He froze this carcass whole.

He caught it 7.2 miles from where he caught the first one..on the other side of the mountain.

He talked I a biologist named Lee yesterday from the Laramie office
He has no idea but is intrigued and is going to see what he can fins out.

What's crazy is that hea trapped thia area for 15 yrs and has never caught a tagged marten..

He haa caught roughly 300 marten in that area over the 15 yrs.

Could fire have pushed them into that area?

On a side note half of the Showys burnt up
Nothing but black. It has impacted his beaver numbers dramatically

Interesting. Following!

When was that fire Cathryn ?

Last year there was several big fires within 50 miles of Hog Park. Cameron peak, Mullen, and Middle Fork fires. The one closest to Steamboat was only 20,000 acres though.

Very obvious a study going on somewhere not far to catch a second. Gotta be the Colorado Steam Boat Springs lead.

More pics

Burrito study was 25 yrs ago and the didn't use ear tags according to Grant frost. Of Wyoming she
Just talked to him

Marten season is open in Wy.? I’m surprised. Nov 1 in most of Alaska. Did he skin the first? You can tell the age approximately from the muscles on top of the head. Juvey, young adult, or mature adult.

Per Martentrapper's post above.

https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6357476/guide-to-age-american-marten#Post6357476

Since they are both females it might be advantageous to remove the uterus for determination of previous pregnancies

Opens Oct 1 where he traps and. Dec 1 in the snowys

The Warden that had that area many years ago was a goose hunting buddy with my Dad. He said the marten season was set to begin after the big game seasons had concluded thus the December 1st opening. I trapped the Snowy's for two winters and took Marten. Not a bunch but enough to make a Missouri trapper happy. At one time I had maps of the areas where marten research projects had been conducted in that area. I still may have them if I dig through some stuff in the basement. At any rate, that was over 20 years ago and I don't imagine any wild marten lives that long. Maybe 15 if memory serves. At one time all the harvested marten from that area had to be tagged. That was discontinued about the time that I trapped there.
Keep us posted.

Independent Federal project might be a good guess. They like to do things on their own without input from the state.

I've trapped the exact same area above Steamboat Springs for marten since 1989 and my average size in December is XL with a few 2XL and a few LG, they mostly grade as a semi heavy brown and light brown 38 of 41 skins averaged a hair over $48 USD last year, 3 skins were nibbled on so I don't count those. How do October skins do price wise if I might ask? I'm curious to see if two months makes a difference in size as well.

Colorado no longer has a furbearer biologist to the best of my knowledge, otherwise I'd ask him about these tagged marten. They did away with that position when they banned trapping with legholds and conibears in this state.

Have info. request gone direct to a Colo. state contact.

Cathryn - looks like I have the right contact. Marten w left ear 167 and right ear 133 was tagged on Whiskey Creek along FR512.

He says second marten numbers not matching his database - pls. confirm numbers with Jerry on the second marten. Also please note original number you posted for first marten was "67" left and their records show "167". Please confirm left ear tag number of the first marten with Jerry also.

crosspatch (and Cathryn) - I've been intrigued by this whole episode. Thanks for posting it and keeping up with the sleuthing. That first marten identified from Whiskey Creek was captured and marked when? What was the study designed to tell the biologists?

Jack

Forgot to mention I have requested capture date and, if known, age by first premolar if it has been extracted and examined.

And yes will be asking for study details e.g. purpose, length of study and results as they may become available.

Thanks crosspatch. Watching with greatest interest.

First marten was captured Oct. 4 - just 16 days before Jerry got it. Purpose of study, without a bunch of complicated details, is to come up with a population estimate for marten in Colorado. For those purposes, extraction of first premolar for aging, is not necessary.

That pretty amazing that Colorado is doing any research into marten. I doubt they have made it public.

Wonder how far that one moved in 16 days from Whiskey Creek to where Jerry caught it?

TTT for Cathryn to double check tag numbers with Jerry.

We have the right biologist but tag numbers not a match for second marten. He thinks he knows which female marten the second one is but needs the numbers confirmed.

And looks like left ear for first marten should be "167" and not "67". Pls. check to be sure also.

Appreciate communications with Jerry are irregular.

Interesting thread. I did hear last year that they were planning on a Marten study in Colorado and the local District Manager for Parks & Wildlife did drop in to see me last spring and asked where I had been catching Marten in my area of the Roaring Fork but didn't put 2 and 2 together. Who knows, maybe I'll end up with some tags on my life this year.

Yes it was 167

He doesn't care if anyone else traps there
Hes confident he can hols his own and catch his fair share

087 in left ear of second marten 155 in right

167 left and 133 in right ear of first

Ty crosapatch
I will forward the info to Jerry

He has the carcass of #2 if they need it

Ken, that fire was last summer into fall, they shut off most of the hunting season in there because of it, typical fire, burned a lot of beetle kill dead and down, it needed to burn, but it missed a lot of patches too, wasn't half the snowys, but almost 200 thousand acres, it's the area I was telling you about where I was getting trail cam videos of the marten.

According to Jerry
Last year

Cathryn here is the direct contact for the biologist in Colorado. No need me in the process now - just an unnecessary step. Keep the thread informed as you can w info. from Jerry and the biologist.

jake.ivan@state.co.us