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Very Nice Find....

Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:19 PM

Logging roads were built up on my property a couple months ago to hold up the logging equipment traffic. Dirt was dug by excavator and piled/smoothed out in the roads. Yesterday while on that strech of road my son looks down and finds this fantastic artifact....a gorget....made from greenstone, it appears.

For those that know what this is...it is a fantastic find...even though there is some damage to each end.

We have found hundreds of points, blades, etc over the years, but never imagined a find like this.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:27 PM

Wolf, what is it's intended use please? May help me date it. Nice find by the way.
Posted By: k snow

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:28 PM

That's a really cool find for sure.
Posted By: Pawnee

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:31 PM

Good for you. I never find anything. Maybe 2 points in 30 years
Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by CaseXX Collector
Wolf, what is it's intended use please? May help me date it. Nice find by the way.

Gorgets were used by native Americans, based on research, for several different uses....throat protector during hand to hand combat, ornamental jewelry, hair or clothing decoration/pendants, burial/funeral body decoration.....

Was a popular item to natives in the eastern US during the Mississippian era...800AD to about 1600AD.
Posted By: warrior

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by CaseXX Collector
Wolf, what is it's intended use please? May help me date it. Nice find by the way.


Woodland period. Jewelry.
Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:36 PM

Another cool aspect about this is......greenstone only occurs in parts of Canada and out in Wyoming. Some long trade routes for that to get to southeast Georgia.
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:36 PM

Ok, so almost modern by some standards, thought it might be older.
Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by CaseXX Collector
Ok, so almost modern by some standards, thought it might be older.

Not exactly.....it is believed to have been an item developed in late Woodland era....couple thousand years ago...became a more popular item during the Mississipian era and was observed by European explorers being worn by natives during first contact.
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:48 PM

Ok not much difference w-land to miss era are contiguous.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:50 PM

I wonder how those perfect holes were drilled? Is that stone real soft or something?
Posted By: coonlove

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:52 PM

These are found associated with Hopewell and Adena cultures as well as later Mississippian sites. Most of the ones I have seen were from the midwest and were made from banded slate.
Posted By: coonlove

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 06:54 PM

Danny the material is soft and it's thought that a primitive bow drill was used. They are usually drilled from both sides to meet in the middle-sometime they don't line up exactly.
Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by CaseXX Collector
Ok not much difference w-land to miss era are contiguous.

The archeological time periods do overlap by a few hundred years. Woodland era is said to began when it was discovered by archaeologists that the natives were becoming more sedentary and less mobile....likely as their popluations increased. They began establishing year-round occupied villages instead of seasonal camps. They learned and developed growing food such as corn instead of just gathering native foods. They continued developing more complex funeral practices for their dead such as burial mound amd other rituals. Their populations developed societal hierarchy levels with the now larger popluations in smaller areas. I could go on and on...lol.

About 3 or 4 thousand years ago when these changes started coming about in what's now the eastern US. Things became more complex as populations expanded....hence the Mississipian era began about 1500 or so years ago. Then, larger towns had developed, some with palisade walls and many mounds.......
Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
I wonder how those perfect holes were drilled? Is that stone real soft or something?

That stone is softer than flint or chert. If you've ever saw a flint drill...it was used to twist back and forth...many times, to bore those holes in the softer stone.
Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 07:09 PM

[Linked Image]

Here are some pic examples from internet search. I believe these are Hopewell culture gorgets...Ohio River Valley area...I think. Very similar to our find.
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 07:10 PM

Where I live between the Tippicanoe and Wabash rivers It is typical to find many items from the late to early archaic, and some, few much older. We think it was due to game abundance and ease of travel to the Ohio, then onto the Mississippi. I did not recognize it hence my curiosity. Between my father in law and myself we have found a lot of artifacts but I've never seen one of those. I have two Clovis type points, one in perfect condition. Common color/stone but Clovis none the less. Good find Merry Christmas.

There
Posted By: Yotegiter

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 07:11 PM

Awsome find
Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by CaseXX Collector
Where I live between the Tippicanoe and Wabash rivers It is typical to find many items from the late to early archaic, and some, few much older. We think it was due to game abundance and ease of travel to the Ohio, then onto the Mississippi. I did not recognize it hence my curiosity. Between my father in law and myself we have found a lot of artifacts but I've never seen one of those. I have two Clovis type points, one in perfect condition. Common color/stone but Clovis none the less. Good find Merry Christmas.

There

Clovis=Paleo. Very nice finds! From the first humans on this continent.

I have only one early Clovis, but it is a dandy. 4" long and double fluted. Found on a sandy knoll next to a small stream here in SE Ga. It has been photographed/catalogued with the University of Georgia.

My family and I have a few other late Paleo finds from this area, but most came off the riverbed. Most are Daltons and Bolen points.
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 08:06 PM

We find a few Daltons maybe a Boleyn but I can't think of one right now, but that would make sense for you in FL. We find quite a few Thebes and Hardens. My best Clovis was confirmed by a pencil head (Phd.) from Purdue. The only way I could list it as such at the show. Their rules, Rocks and Relics. In Ohio. Back before everyone went to notill and we were still deep plowing folks would come from the city and ask to walk the fields after spring rains. When I built this house I had to drill for telephone poles, in the drill dirt of one pole my wife found one of my best Pine Trees ever, bright red Hematite (iron stone). Perfect condition.
Good Luck.
Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by coonlove
These are found associated with Hopewell and Adena cultures as well as later Mississippian sites. Most of the ones I have seen were from the midwest and were made from banded slate.

This one could be banded slate...but it has a green hue to it. Either one....it traveled a good ways to get here.
Posted By: Northof50

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
Another cool aspect about this is......greenstone only occurs in parts of Canada and out in Wyoming. Some long trade routes for that to get to southeast Georgia.


So there was Canadian snow birds even back in that day.
Very nice find and thanks for the refresher course. I have not seen any in my travels.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 09:59 PM

Nice, here's one I found a while back. Not as nice shaped as yours. I used to have a pretty large collection of Indian artifacts until a family member decided they needed it more than I did. [Linked Image]
Posted By: tomahawker

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/23/21 10:51 PM

I’m a lil dubious about there usage as jewelry/adornment, or throat protector. That thought comes from Europeans usage of a similar item back in the time of knights of Armor. Just thinking logically, the design seems clunky and cumbersome to wear on your person. It does look like it would be a great net weight etc. I may be wrong, but so could everyone else. I just can’t see an Indian wearing a stone bow tie. Thoughts?
Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/24/21 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by tomahawker
I’m a lil dubious about there usage as jewelry/adornment, or throat protector. That thought comes from Europeans usage of a similar item back in the time of knights of Armor. Just thinking logically, the design seems clunky and cumbersome to wear on your person. It does look like it would be a great net weight etc. I may be wrong, but so could everyone else. I just can’t see an Indian wearing a stone bow tie. Thoughts?

Thought about that too. But, I read that Spaniards amd other European explorers in the southeast US observed the natives wearing them. They have also been found in burials fastened around the neck area, the head area and even the waist/hip area. It is also thought that the larger, thicker ones were used as atlatl weights/bannerstones.
Posted By: eric space

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/24/21 01:03 AM

In the late 1950's I was with my grandfather on an archeological dig in eastern Tennessee. We excavated an Indian grave where the woman had a large raw copper gorget that was apparently a necklace. When she was buried it wound up on the side of her face. The copper preserved the skin and hair under it for around 1000 years. This, last I know of, is in the Museum of Natural History in New York City.
Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/24/21 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by eric space
In the late 1950's I was with my grandfather on an archeological dig in eastern Tennessee. We excavated an Indian grave where the woman had a large raw copper gorget that was apparently a necklace. When she was buried it wound up on the side of her face. The copper preserved the skin and hair under it for around 1000 years. This, last I know of, is in the Museum of Natural History in New York City.

That's neat stuff.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/24/21 02:13 AM

To my understanding, most of these pieces were a banded slate or soapstone. Easy to work into a shape. Different tribes used different shapes and were worn mostly ceremonial. Over the years I've found tons of broken ones as they break easy at the holes. The Midwest seems to be the hot areas for slate pieces but the best ones seem to come out of the KY, OH, IN triangle.
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/24/21 02:35 AM

Weather for ceremonial, jewelry, or other reasons they may have had multiple uses as stone age people didn't just tote around rocks for no reason. The burial cases must be given a lot of credence.
Posted By: DavidInMT

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/24/21 03:03 AM

Swamp, think it could it be Catoctin Greenstone, from Maryland?
Posted By: Swamp Wolf

Re: Very Nice Find.... - 12/24/21 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by DavidInMT
Swamp, think it could it be Catoctin Greenstone, from Maryland?

Very possible. I'm not real familiar with origins of some of the lithics. I've found some unusual stone down here. Some I can ID...others not so much. Most of the points, blades and tools found here are made from agatized coral that the natives discovered embedded in limestone outcroppings along local river here.

Thanks for info. I'll look that up
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