Think it costs a lot to heat a home, JUST WAIT

N.Y. governor proposes 1st-ever statewide ban on gas hookups in new buildings


Fri, January 7, 2022, 4:00 PM

As the centerpiece of a multipronged initiative to combat climate change, New York Gov. Kathy Hochul proposed on Wednesday a first-of-its-kind statewide ban on natural gas hookups in all new buildings.

“New construction in the state will be zero-emission by 2027, and we will build climate-friendly electric homes and promote electric cars, trucks and buses,” Hochul said in her annual State of the State speech

In a policy outline released Wednesday ahead of her State of the State address, Hochul’s office laid out her plan to curb on-site greenhouse gas emissions. In effect, the plan means that new buildings could have neither oil or gas burners for heat or hot water, nor gas stoves. The plan would also require energy analyses of every new building’s energy usage, known as “benchmarking.” Hochul’s climate change agenda also sets a goal of 2 million electrified homes by 2030.

Can’t wait

… till she’s gone

These electric cars mandates and gas bans will get people killed and nobody will be held accountable.

The problem is the grid won't be able to support all the electric demand needed. There will be massive rolling black outs.

Buildings shouldn't need heat with the global warming. If you are old and your feet get cold just wear electric socks, solar charged of course.

And people will still vote for the libtards

They are just beginning.....stay tuned.

Need the ideas and votes of the red to put money into our failing infrastructures

Seems to be a competition between NY and CA

Those types worship and serve the creature more than the creator. Creeping totalitarianism. The Lord is coming back and things will be set straight.

Firewood will be something one could make a buck or two with in the future it looks like.

I just love the catch phrase " zero emissions " It should be called distant emissions as they still get most of their power from coal

How much will a load of "bootleg" firewood cost Scuba ? What if the revenuers see that tiny stream of smoke in the sky, lol ?

Pro choice Democrats sure like to take away peoples' choices. Their way or the highway and many people are choosing the highway.

Bootleg firewood ..... love it

Such an optimist

Can't wait for the New York governor to run for president.

Pretty sure I saw a thread on here already about those idiots running things in New York banning firewood a week or so ago

Soon they will ban fishing in the oceans and hunting unless it’s a high fence ranch. Watch and see. It’s all about control and forcing you to funnel in meaningful direction - taxable sources not free sources like wild meat, seafood, firewood etc.

Yup the firewood ban is in the same bill. The only acceptable form of energy is electric, this state has a gone WAY beyond stupid.

Where in the world do they think the electricity is going to come from?

I would propose that all the electric car proponents be forced to travel the upper plains for a few winters themselves. These A.wholes will be killing piles of people that get stranded due to blizzards and such. Might pass the buck in southern regions, not so much here. Be interesting to see how these things will handle true cold and snow.

Dig deep enough Ill bet you find those green politicians are invested heavily in the grid now the real reason for the big push~

Exactly

Used to be if you grew weed you were an outlaw, now your an outlaw if you cut firewood, really!!!! How are they going to control this, with the existing New York State building codes system ???

They don't care.

Don't you know that electricity comes from recepticles in the wall??? It's been available, convenient, and reliable for so long that many people have no real idea where it comes from or what it takes to produce. It's the same situation with food. These people think food just comes from the grocery store.

Electric utility companies have long known that the key to providing a reliable supply is a diverse mix of generation methods. When one method is impacted negatively the others help meet the demand. The same principle applies to individual homes. There is nothing better than having multiple ways of heating your home (electric, wood, gas) and nothing worse than being driven out of your home because you can't heat it during a severe cold spell. Going all electric is creating an unnecessary vulnerability. Law Dog is right, it is going to cause some people to lose their lives, but until that happens there will be no changing the minds of these idiots.

this^^^^^^^^^^

Anyone who gets the job of enforcing any kind of firewood ban in northern NY, where it is 5 below zero this morning, will require having a death wish on their resume’.

They have learned nothing last winter when people died in Texas with the power outages in the cold snap they had. They have their agenda and are going to push it through, no matter the cost or if it is wanted by the people they supposedly work for. Or if it is indeed possible or not for the many reasons that speak against this idiotic ideal they are working towards. None of the people in charge have bothered to run the numbers or even understand them.

I am glad they are trying this in NY first

Has anyone noticed as the more we go green the stranger and stranger our weather is getting ? We had a more normal and predictable climate when we had more supposed pollution.

Another reason the Dems are for this, for the most part the firewood business is, “bootleg ,” now. It is almost all a cash business and that’s why gov. wants to crack down on it.

Good way to chase revenue out of your state. Following NY city

Converting fossil fuels to heat energy is pretty efficient. 80 to 95% . Converting fossil fuels to electricity wastes the heat and then the electricity gets converted back to heat at a house. A system that would be lucky to be 40% efficient. New York has expensive electricity. How does this make any sense, economically, efficient use of resources, or lowering any CO2 emissions?

I like to watch!

Add wood chips to your comment and you are also correct. We had a local wood chip fueled co-gen plant . They made electricity for the grid and sold the excess steam to a paper mill across the street. The co-gen plant went broke. They then moved their wood chip co-gen. operation to Fort Drum, home of the 10th Mtn. division. They now produce electricity and heat for the army base, and they are still in business because the gov. Doesn’t care if it is cost effective or not. On top of that, it takes a heck of a lot of fossil fuel to turn a tree into a wood chip.

Dirt thats why I said that the apparatchiks that make the rules don't understand the basic numbers or they would pretty quickly spot that their way of thinking is idiotic

All electric cars by 2035. Best case scenerio for the whole issue would be free or cheap electricity in future. Worst case scenerio would be bad government having control to shut things down at will. Let's hope best case

Yep , we need to go back to this .....and I'm not joking

"NADWORNY: So this is about electrification. And I wonder, why is electrification considered a better alternative to sources like natural gas?

UNGER: When we're using fossil fuels in our homes and offices, we're burning fossil fuels. There's no way around it. And fossil fuels release carbon emissions and other pollutants, and we're contributing to climate change. When we electrify, we're pulling power off the grid. The grid has a mixture of sources. We also, by using electricity, can use types of heating, like heat pumps, that are - you know, have multiple folds of efficiency, just the way they work, by moving the heat. So even today in most jurisdictions, electrification is going to reduce carbon emissions. And then looking forward to the targets that we have around the country, that will become, like, a better and better carbon math."

Hope this helps!

Seems they're going to trim the herd one way or another .

^^^^ yup you got that right

It's terrible to have to say this. World population must be stabilized and to do that we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. This is so horrible to contemplate that we shouldn't even say it. But the general situation in which we are involved is lamentable.

Jacques Yves Cousteau

Just had the LP truck visit I did not need any but he topped me off like always. 125 gallons cost $248.19 $1.90 per gallon plus tax, I think I could of waited for the summer drop but the way it’s going it might never come this year. LGB

We are sending people to DC to screw us anyway they can and get rich doing it, it’s all about taxes, restrictions with almost nothing that helps the Nation in the end. What they call help is just what works for them and nothing is done about it they don’t even follow the rule of law or rulings from a judge if they don’t want to.

I wonder if they have figured out how much it would cost the homeowner, or renter of an Apartment to heat their place using total electric? I know for a fact, that back in January of 1985, when the electric bill came in; it was $850.00 for that ONE MONTH!! That was using total electric., Electric Hot Water, Electric Stove. Electric heat Eventually had to switch to Natural Gas. The Cost for total Electric in a house is outrageous

I'd put money on the governor's house is heated with natural gas and every government building in NY state...

The estimates for New York State is only about three times as much, and you are not even saving the planet. Each total electric conversion comes with a free case of Brawndo though.

"Electric resistance heating is around three times more expensive than gas heating in NYC, so it should come as no surprise that many homeowners and businesses have decided to use gas."

Take comfort in knowing if your paying 3X as much for heat then before the same folks that won’t work will be getting it for free another program that is just a big step backwards. Like I said you can bet these people making the rules are invested in the power grid and have nothing to lose.

govt is exempt from the laws they pass....

This weekend an apartment building in the bronx caught fire and several people were killed because of a space heater.

Going to need to invent a chimney smoke eater so you can hide your wood fired heat from the revenuers.

Oil delivered today $360 and change.

What about the smoke from my firearms ?

Here's the progression of heating oil since the commies took over.



1.79 on 3/26/20
1.99 on 12/16/20
And just filled at 2.74

Almost a buck a gallon more

With a solar panel attached to your backside you should be in good shape. You just won't be able to sit real often.

They won't be able to see that.

What about the smoke from my firearms ?
[/quote]

They won't be able to see that. [/quote]

I was thinking it would be the last thing they see ?

The gird system will not be able to handle their plans period!
How many times has it failed for as long as a couple weeks ?
Not just one , but every gird system in our country and our neighboring countries .

Florida you best get ready, 5 years from now EVERY New Yorker will be there.

lol

Maybe every liberal/progressive NY’er ? But not me, Northern NY is still a great place to live if you hunt,trap,fish, ATV, snowmobile, ski, etc.., idiots in Albany and NYC will not chase me out.

I understand those feelings and the land is amazing but i believe i would have moved by now. But thats easy for me to say. Indiana is a preaty free state id i have not been forced with that choise. It did limit where i looked for land back when i was shopping but thats nothing like packing up and leaving your home.

You scared me just called for LP its 1.50 /gal. cash here

I just had some propane put in my 500 gallon tank. $620 brought it up to 55% Yikes.

The question is why??? Why would any person, party or whatever do things to make this worse than the virus was going to do?

I don't get it.

And blame Trump.

The campaign to ban gas stoves is heating up

.
What’s happening
Over the past three years, dozens of cities across the country have banned natural gas hookups in newly constructed buildings as part of a growing campaign to reduce carbon emissions from homes. The movement scored a major victory last month, when New York City’s outgoing Mayor Bill de Blasio signed into law a ban on gas hookups in new buildings.

Though new laws apply to the entire home, the policy debate often focuses on one room in particular: the kitchen. Gas stoves account for a relatively small share of the emissions released by a typical household, but they’ve become a proxy for a larger fight over how far efforts to curb at-home natural gas consumption in the name of fighting climate change should go.

Natural gas consumption accounts for 80 percent of fossil fuel emissions from residential and commercial buildings, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. One study estimated that New York’s ban on its own would create an emissions reduction comparable to taking 450,000 cars off the road. But the movement has met significant pushback. About 35 percent of U.S. homes use gas for cooking, and surveys show that many people are resistant to switching to an electric or induction range. The gas industry has also launched a massive lobbying campaign that has helped convince 19 Republican-led states to preemptively bar local governments from imposing bans on natural gas.

Beyond the climate implications of natural gas in general, there is also a movement to phase out gas stoves because of the harmful pollutants they release inside the home. Cooking on a gas stove releases nitrogen dioxide, carbon monoxide and formaldehyde, chemicals that have been connected with negative health conditions like asthma, with particular risk to children. One study found that gas stoves can create levels of nitrogen dioxide indoors exceeding the legal limits for outdoor air.

Why there’s debate
The debate over gas stoves is really a two-part conversation, with one element focusing on the environmental harms of at-home natural gas consumption in general, and the other specifically on the indoor pollution that gas cooktops create.

Climate change activists see gas bans as a powerful way to reduce the greenhouse gases created by buildings, which account for about 13 percent of total U.S. emissions. They argue that — unlike burgeoning technologies like a green power grid and electric vehicles — clean alternatives to gas heaters, appliances and stoves are readily available to most consumers. Critics of the bans, on the other hand, are skeptical of how much they’ll really reduce emissions, worry about increasing costs for homeowners and argue that market-based solutions will be most effective at promoting a transition to electrified homes.

When it comes to health, advocates say gas stoves are simply too toxic to be installed in new homes. They call for governments to create financial incentives to help homeowners switch to electric or induction stoves, an expense they argue will ultimately save money relative to the cost of potential health problems.

The gas industry makes the case that with proper ventilation, gas stoves can be safe. Conservatives also take issue with the idea of the government limiting individual choice. Others argue that focusing on gas stoves, a product many people have an intense loyalty to, will only increase resistance to electrification as a whole.

What’s next
The list of cities to ban gas hookups in new construction appears primed to grow in the coming years, and opposition is likely to ramp up in response. So far, no statewide bans have been put in place. California has come the closest. Starting next year, all homes built in the state may be required to be wired so they’re “electric ready” even if they have gas appliances installed. In New York, Gov. Kathy Hochul has proposed a statewide ban as part of a multipronged initiative to combat climate change.

Perspectives
Supporters
Gas bans are the only way to meaningfully reduce emissions from the home

“For the individual homeowner, as for society at large, managing harmful pollution eventually starts to seem a little silly when equally effective, affordable, and pollution-free alternatives are available. It’s time to start making new buildings all-electric and switching out all those existing gas appliances, including gas stoves, for electric alternatives.” — David Roberts, Vox

Gas stoves are a great entry point for the broader effort to electrify homes

“The humble stove may seem like a tiny part of a big problem — but it’s one of our most personal, immediate and tangible. It’s also one of the easiest to change.” — Brady Seals, Guardian

A combination of legal limits and financial incentives could supercharge a shift away from gas

“The government could speed things up mightily with subsidies and regulation. If the state provided a big credit for property owners to replace their gas stoves, with particular attention on older stoves in apartment buildings (they often leak or burn very inefficiently), and set up new regulations on the amount of air pollution appliances could produce that would gradually tighten over time, gas cooking could be replaced entirely.” — Ryan Cooper, the Week

Gas stoves are toxic to our health

“Cooking is the No. 1 way you’re polluting your home. It is causing respiratory and cardiovascular health problems; it can exacerbate flu and asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease in children. … You’re basically living in this toxic soup.” — Shelly Miller, environmental engineer, to Mother Jones

Electrification of homes is one of the few climate transitions that’s possible right now

“Real estate developers already have most of the technology to replace furnaces with heat pumps, hot water heaters with electric boilers, and gas stoves with induction cooktops. And because cities and towns control building and energy codes, it’s one of the few areas where they have the power to push through deep emission cuts.” — Ysabelle Kempe, Grist

Climate change is too important to leave up to the free market

“The pursuit of market-based solutions … as a pathway to addressing the energy transition in low-income and disadvantaged communities is likely infeasible, and also ethically dubious. Market-based solutions have not achieved their desired goals, thus new ways of thinking need to emerge.” — Multiple authors, the Appeal

Opponents
Gas bans rob consumers of their freedom to choose what to have in their homes

“As for the gas stove, it’s the next target for elimination, because it uses gas. The Left, if they get control of everything, would ban it from new manufacture nationwide and then ban its replacement and ownership. … If someone in Montana or Florida or Seattle says, ‘But I prefer gas,’ you can only roll your eyes.” — James Lileks, National Review

The free market will be much more effective at promoting a transition from gas

“With respect to the goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, there would be no need to mandate building electrification if it were already cheaper than the fossil fuel alternatives for heat, hot water, and cooking. … In other words, the adoption of electric home heating has been proceeding expeditiously without mandates.” — Ronald Bailey, Reason

Attacking gas stoves is a great way to turn people off from electrification in general

“Home kitchens thus account for about 0.4% of U.S. natural gas use. … That’s not a lot! Gas cooking does, however, seem likely to be the biggest obstacle to the effort to electrify the American home in the name of slowing climate change. Why’s that? Mainly because people (myself included) like cooking with gas! It’s one of the few energy uses that inspires brand loyalty to the fuel consumed.” — Justin Fox, Bloomberg

Gas bans will actually increase emissions without a green energy grid

“It has evolved into the transitional fuel of our time, allowing the U.S. to quickly ditch coal while giving renewables time to expand to the scale needed to power the entire electricity-hungry country. Once those renewables have reached that scale, banning natural gas in residential construction starts making environmental sense. Until then, these proposals are ultimately increasing our carbon footprint.” — Ognjen Miljanić, The Hill

Gas stoves aren’t ideal, but aren’t as harmful as critics make them out to be

“It’s a good choice to avoid gas if you’re replacing your stove anyway. … But if you’re looking for personal ways to protect the environment and your health right now, you have much bigger fish to fry. Electrifying your space- and water-heating systems, or your car, will have a massively larger impact, as will ventilating your kitchen.”


With all that being said, I LOVE my GE GAS STOVE !!!

That's easy. Control.

"Over the past three years, dozens of cities across the country have banned natural gas hookups in newly constructed buildings as part of a growing campaign to reduce carbon emissions from homes."

I guess they don't know natural gas stoves and hot water heaters can be hooked up to propane.