Home

Stucco

Posted By: Eyehi

Stucco - 01/15/22 12:34 AM

Hoping to build a house thus summer out in the country , my wife and I are considering finishing the outside with stucco ? We live in northern NY state and have harsh winters .... Looking for some advice from anyone with knowledge about stucco ?
Posted By: warrior

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 12:52 AM

Go with real cement stucco or not at all. The fake stuff will rot out your walls if it ever gets water behind it.
Posted By: Oh Snap

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 01:06 AM

Dryvit 3 coat synthetic plaster over foam for insulation. Used on commercial buildings here in the interior!
Posted By: warrior

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 01:21 AM

Is it 3 because 1 and 2 were failures and subject to a class action?

Back in the building boom of the nineties that stuff was going on everything. And having to be torn off just as fast.

It's also quite fragile. Almost poke your finger through fragile. And birds love it, almost every dryvit chimney chase around here has at least one woodpecker hole in it. And you won't be putting a ladder against it to fix it either.
Posted By: Oh Snap

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 01:29 AM

Your talking about something different than whatís used here. We are working on Ft. Wainwright doing core drilling. It takes 5 minutes to drill through it. Far from being fragile.

Itís been used here for over 30 years and I have never seen any removed other than for a remodel job tie in!
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 01:35 AM

ever thought of cedar shake ? 50+ years and no stain , paint or other , nice big eves and let it turn dark

I hated painting the house as a kid my current house has well faded aluminum siding but it keeps the weather out so it can stay forever I would rather live in a silver house than waste another summer scraping and painting.
Posted By: adam m

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 01:46 AM

Real stucoo is great if installed properly. If not stucoo will start cracking within a few years. You'll have to fix it asap as it will get worse and possibly get water infiltration Thankfully they sell "patch kits" that are already dyed. Find a very reputable company around your area make sure they have a great warranty.

Stucoo has lots of benefits including adding additional fire resistance.

Most buildings here are stuccoed.
Posted By: warrior

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by Oh Snap
Your talking about something different than whatís used here. We are working on Ft. Wainwright doing core drilling. It takes 5 minutes to drill through it. Far from being fragile.

Itís been used here for over 30 years and I have never seen any removed other than for a remodel job tie in!


Maybe, but I was running framing crews in the 90s and could have run as many crews tearing off the Styrofoam fake stuff. I'm told it was because everyone and their cross-eyed brother was slapping it on. Maybe so but in our humidity any crack or crevice is invitation to rot.
I don't see it being installed on much new construction anymore and what I do is on commercial steel.
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 01:55 AM

Real concrete stucco or gunite (concrete spray on). 25 years as a hod carrier in the AFL-CIO building and trades. Been useing it in steel mills and 100 ft blast furnace smoke stack for a long time. Like to see any bird peck through that. At Eli-Lilly went through a dozen 30 lb air hammer bits a day to repair 1 sq. Yard.
Built many schools, library's, jails, court houses, useing concrete stucco.
Case.
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 02:13 AM

Warrior, I think you guys are mixing up different products when gunite came out others soon copied the process but the original gunite corp. was very protective of their patents and others soon changed some of the ingredients and or processes to look like the same thing, the spray on fire retardants are the same situation, all look alike to a layman but very different in nature. Unless you are a building materials engineer it is almost impossible to tell the difference visually. With most respect my 2 cents.
Case
Posted By: charles

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 02:30 AM

Had a neighbor in Central NC who bought a new home that had the new stuff. After about 7-8 years he had to have it torn out and lots on interior problems as well. Seem to recall it was something put over styrofoam, but not sure. Kind of guy who knew everything.
Posted By: warrior

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by CaseXX
Warrior, I think you guys are mixing up different products when gunite came out others soon copied the process but the original gunite corp. was very protective of their patents and others soon changed some of the ingredients and or processes to look like the same thing, the spray on fire retardants are the same situation, all look alike to a layman but very different in nature. Unless you are a building materials engineer it is almost impossible to tell the difference visually. With most respect my 2 cents.
Case


Gunnite, if I'm thinking of the right product, is a blown on air entrained concrete product.

What I'm talking about, known as dryvit down here, is 1/2"-3/4" sheet styrofoam sheathing taped with fiberglass mesh tape with a synthetic polymer grout like skim coat of about a 1/16". No portland at all in it.

True stucco, wire lath and mortar, was common on the coast and in Florida, often over cinder block. That stuff is impermeable and excellent thermal mass insulation in southern heat.

That styrofoam stuff has to be perfectly sealed as any moisture behind it has nowhere to go. Being styrofoam a perfect seal is impossible to maintain.
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by warrior
It's also quite fragile. Almost poke your finger through fragile. And birds love it, almost every dryvit chimney chase around here has at least one woodpecker hole in it. And you won't be putting a ladder against it to fix it either.



Originally Posted by Oh Snap
Your talking about something different than whatís used here. We are working on Ft. Wainwright doing core drilling. It takes 5 minutes to drill through it. Far from being fragile.

Itís been used here for over 30 years and I have never seen any removed other than for a remodel job tie in!


I used to be certified to install Dryvit, even had the shirts with the penguin logo. laugh

Installed correctly it is very tough stuff. Install Panzer mesh in the base coat and you will have a tough time denting it even if you wail on it with a hammer.

Most of the problems in the nineties were caused by poor installation procedures by non-certified installers, especially improper installation or lack of drainage mats behind the foam. There are other EIF systems out there but Dryvit was one of the better ones, still is.
Posted By: adam m

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 03:41 AM

It is fragile IF it's not installed correctly. If water gets in, the scratch coat tends to deteriorate from behind the finish coat. It has a hard time of drying out so it crumbles.
From base to finish coat on home's you get about 1" thickness depending on the installer. Usually the base coat is half inch thick alone.
Homes buildings mail boxes walls and much more are all coated here. Depending on height if wall they may install a "drip edge".

I've seen a lot of people put it directly on top of siding like. Felt paper chicken wire thin base coat thin scratch thin finish. This is a cheap way but it will fail especially if the siding was already jeopardized.

It's a labor intensive process with great results IF done right.

First time doing stucoo I was 10 stuccoed are backyard wall 75' x 6'6". Before that I would help my dad make the mud fill the buckets cut the leathe chicken wire etc...
Baseball to stucoo will make a hole. Ask me how I know grin
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 04:30 AM

Yep you nailed gunite, and I remember stucco on block in Fla. that's where we went when we were laid off in winter. Work a week go get drunk. Till spring thaw back home. We saw and were mixed up in a corporate war here re: the blow on products, nobody knew who would do the work, carpenters, hodcarriers, cement finishers, brick layers, and at the same time the differing companies were in the courts arguing about patent rights each putting out bids on jobs based on cost of time and material. All of that above my pay grade. They must have got it figured out, I know the next year I put up the tallest scaffold that county ever had 103 ft. Tube scaffold carpenters did the work and gunite was used. That was Archer Daniel Millons, Then Ely-Lilly wanted to use it as fire proofing on the red iron on the inside and a minority co. bid on the job way lower than the gunite co. They couldn't figure out how they were underbid. Find out later other co. used pearlite in the mix. Soon comes styrofoam, then glass fiber, next I guess old lady underwear. Eventually everybody had their own patent products that leveled the playing field for prime contractors but left the owners of the finished product. (The building) in total darkness. Now fellows like us here are arguing bout what is witch.

About your styrofoam sheathing here it is 1 to 2 inches thick and is used as an insulation layer between blocks and the face brick, we call it ol'blue or ol'pink depending on manufacturer if anyone put anything on it as a finnish coat outdoors they would be .......... well it wouldn't be good. Quite frankly I can't imagine it used in any exterior application likely because of our extreme differences in climate, yours and mine. Your Dryvit may have some applications down there as a cost saving measure but i can't see it used as a real building material for any realistic use. Just my opinion others are free to have their own.
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by Lugnut
Originally Posted by warrior
It's also quite fragile. Almost poke your finger through fragile. And birds love it, almost every dryvit chimney chase around here has at least one woodpecker hole in it. And you won't be putting a ladder against it to fix it either.



Originally Posted by Oh Snap
Your talking about something different than whatís used here. We are working on Ft. Wainwright doing core drilling. It takes 5 minutes to drill through it. Far from being fragile.

Itís been used here for over 30 years and I have never seen any removed other than for a remodel job tie in!


I used to be certified to install Dryvit, even had the shirts with the penguin logo. laugh

Installed correctly it is very tough stuff. Install Panzer mesh in the base coat and you will have a tough time denting it even if you wail on it with a hammer.

Most of the problems in the nineties were caused by poor installation procedures by non-certified installers, especially improper installation or lack of drainage mats behind the foam. There are other EIF systems out there but Dryvit was one of the better ones, still is.


Sir. Would you please tell me what an EIFSystem is? And maybe Panzer mesh. As to certified is that to ANSI specs? You should know, after all you have the t-shirt? And of course please google ANSI. Thanks
Case
Posted By: adam m

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 05:48 AM

Case That is interesting. Thanks for the lesson. I've always seen stucco usually made sand cement lyme sometimes a poly is added to the mud which is all hand trowled never thin or sprayed. On brick it can be applied directly w/o foam wire felt etc... You just need to soak the brick prior to applying the base so the brick doesn't rob the moisture from the stucco base.

I think of gunnite thin watery stuff used on pools. Come on down to the SW and you will see buildings of various shapes and sizes fully covered in hand trowled stucco with various finish styles. You would be amazed. Easy to find stucco guys here.
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 07:08 AM


Adam
Please take a reading comprehension course.


I'm done.


Second post.
Before hitting post relply I decided to reread the entire post, maybe you did not see I was a hod carrier for 25 yrs. do you have any clue how many mortar boards, stucco hods I filled in those years. Do you even know what a hod is? You think that you can teach me something. You by your own words say "I have always seen" you don't have a clue what "mud" is, ask any bricky, or mason they will tell you the best mud they ever had was no good. JESUS HELP ME, you people pixx me off.







First post.
Not sure about your posting, here Indiana, stucco is used only indoor depending who the customer is. Most govt.agencies/entities use Portland, fine sand also known locally as sugar sand, and bagged lime. But we have one, the major user in our area of many, many , many, Millions of dollars each year, that requires slaked lime. All others but this one can be mixed by common two or three bag mixers. Really don't have a clue about robbing water from cement, due to the fact that once mixed water and cement create a chemical bond and reaction enabling concrete to harden underwater if needed it cannot be separated on a molecular level. Any and all chemical reactions create heat. Added to your ambient temps may be the cause of your consternation. Hear we add calcium in winter to keep concrete from freezing but that's about the end of my knowledge. If you can help me in any way I am a sponge and constantly in search of things.

I can't argue with you people anymore.
I'm done
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 12:08 PM

SOMEBODY NEEDS A NAP!!!
MAN!!!!! Leave it to a bunch of trappers to turn a question about exterior house coating into a whizzin' contest!! laugh
I've always known the exterior stuff to be referred to as stucco............interior stuff referred to as texturing.
The exterior stuff is very low-maintenance when applied properly and lasts for many years. I guess its a regional thing as to whether stucco is exterior or interior.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 12:16 PM

EIF......Exterior Insulation Finishing system. I wasn't aware of the term either. Had to google it myself.
Im not sure what stucoo is............. laugh
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by CaseXX
Sir. Would you please tell me what an EIFSystem is? And maybe Panzer mesh. As to certified is that to ANSI specs? You should know, after all you have the t-shirt? And of course please google ANSI. Thanks
Case


EIFS=Exterior Insulation and Finishing System.

Panzerģ 20: A 20.5oz/yd≤ (695 g/m≤) mesh recommended for all ground floor and high traffic areas. (Must be installed under Standard Plus or Standard Mesh).

Panzerģ 15: A 15oz/yd≤ (509 g/m≤) mesh recommended for all ground floor and high traffic areas. (Must be installed under Standard Plus or Standard Mesh).

Dryvit Systems Inc. holds several ANSI, ASQ, and NQA certifications. Please google as needed. Therefore, the answer to your certification question would be yes, I was certified to ANSI specs.

Oh, and they're not T-shirts, they're polo shirts.

Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 01:13 PM

My Sons have installed some Dryvit in Nebraska. So far so good I think..after several years.
Posted By: adam m

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by CaseXX

Adam
Please take a reading comprehension course.


I'm done.


Second post.
Before hitting post relply I decided to reread the entire post, maybe you did not see I was a hod carrier for 25 yrs. do you have any clue how many mortar boards, stucco hods I filled in those years. Do you even know what a hod is? You think that you can teach me something. You by your own words say "I have always seen" you don't have a clue what "mud" is, ask any bricky, or mason they will tell you the best mud they ever had was no good. JESUS HELP ME, you people pixx me off.







First post.
Not sure about your posting, here Indiana, stucco is used only indoor depending who the customer is. Most govt.agencies/entities use Portland, fine sand also known locally as sugar sand, and bagged lime. But we have one, the major user in our area of many, many , many, Millions of dollars each year, that requires slaked lime. All others but this one can be mixed by common two or three bag mixers. Really don't have a clue about robbing water from cement, due to the fact that once mixed water and cement create a chemical bond and reaction enabling concrete to harden underwater if needed it cannot be separated on a molecular level. Any and all chemical reactions create heat. Added to your ambient temps may be the cause of your consternation. Hear we add calcium in winter to keep concrete from freezing but that's about the end of my knowledge. If you can help me in any way I am a sponge and constantly in search of things.

I can't argue with you people anymore.
I'm done

Hahaha sorry your underwear is in a bundle.

I've grown up doing stucoo concrete construction making Adobe amongst other skills. Stuccoed many houses and walls. Im not so prideful a's to not have a conversation to learn and educate unlike you. You say it was a legal patent battle when it's been around for thousands of years all over the world.
Like I said you will be impressed to come to the SW where nearly every building is stuccoed. Hopefully you fix your underwater.

Yes I've said I have always seen made a certain way but if you read my other comment you would see I've worked with it made it and being that nearly every building here is covered in it also means im constantly exposed to it. Just because stucoo wasn't my career doesn't mean I'm stupid you Karen. Seriously, you need to humble yourself.
Posted By: Wright Brothers

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 02:10 PM

or Standard Mesh).

Lug does this mean expandable metal lathe / diamond wire mesh?

Been in my fair share of mud. As a 20+ year certified internet trapper,
it's lots a times best to, "I know nuttink" on here lol.
Posted By: charles

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 02:17 PM

A regional architectural finish in the Biltmore section of Asheville is called pebble dash. I think it is pigmented concrete with pebbles actually thrown onto the finish. Never seen it done. Several commercial buildings here are finished in pebble dash and it is very attractive.
Posted By: Wright Brothers

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 02:26 PM

Charles I saw that here. Colored aggs and crete and retarder mixed together, laid / hung, then hosed at the right time. Very nice and high end,,, and easy to do.
Wished I could have learned more but was busy.
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Wright Brothers
or Standard Mesh).

Lug does this mean expandable metal lathe / diamond wire mesh?

Been in my fair share of mud. As a 20+ year certified internet trapper,
it's lots a times best to, "I know nuttink" on here lol.


No metal mesh used in Dryvit systems. The Dryvit reinforcing meshes are fiberglass in various weights, I think five different weights are available.

We save the metal mesh for real stucco or mortar parging.

I hear you about going the Sgt. Schultz route. grin
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 02:56 PM

Posted By: Oh Snap

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 03:02 PM

That was a very interesting evening!
Posted By: Wright Brothers

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 03:05 PM

Thanks. I might PM you in mudding season.
Posted By: 653

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Oh Snap
Dryvit 3 coat synthetic plaster over foam for insulation. Used on commercial buildings here in the interior!

the only way to go!! I have done EIFS since the 70s and no problems whatsoever. can be put on wrong just like real stucco or siding so get a good contractor
Posted By: Oh Snap

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 03:18 PM

I think that a good vapor barrier in the building is needed. A company out of Seattle built a Lamontís store here and the superintendent didnít want to put a vapor barrier said itís not needed. Well that building has had problems with moisture on the exterior walls every

This summer the Wells Fargo bank building ( wood structure) had EFIS installed. Holds up well and looks great!

EFIS on a residential building in my opinion is the way to go in northern regions if done by a certified installer. To answer the OP original question
Posted By: dirtydogtrapping

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 03:48 PM

How does some one put in 25 years as a hod carrier? Union ?
I'm a retired concrete finisher. No way would I have started out as a laborer muck raker. And not been able to learn the trade. And advance into a finisher. In that amount of time. crazy
By the way lugnut is the man when it comes to masonry. And just like him I know nothing either.
Posted By: Eyehi

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 05:50 PM

We are thinking about using concrete framing instead of.lumber due to the hjgh.prices of wood ..... Our home will only.be one story but have a finished basement and garage .... Thanks for.all.the responses here ....
Posted By: Eyehi

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
ever thought of cedar shake ? 50+ years and no stain , paint or other , nice big eves and let it turn dark

I hated painting the house as a kid my current house has well faded aluminum siding but it keeps the weather out so it can stay forever I would rather live in a silver house than waste another summer scraping and painting.



We have thought about cedar shakes gcp ...... Looking at all low maintenance options ....I don't care.for.the way vinyl siding fades over time ....
Posted By: CaseXX

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 08:09 PM

Don't know if I can do this but I'll try. At no time did I say or imply stucco and gunite are the same thing, gunite was where the legal battle came in. I am well aware of stuccos use in American architecture, and as I said from the start it is my opinion that true concrete stucco is the preferred form of that material. Lath (metal or wood) and plaster is used exclusively as an indoor building material here and is not the same as stucco in any way.

Dirtydog I don't have to ask lugnut anything because I will just make the assumption that if he were working 6-10-20 stories off the ground on a scaffold he would hope he has someone with my experience building it, not some fresh face kid off the street. Been on two jobs where scaffold failed both resulting in a single death and many injuries, one a friend of a few years. Now as to your shot about not advancing in the trade, when I came home there weren't many jobs for people with my skill set, that whole "baby killer" thing and all. And no hi school diploma, so I went to work as a laborer muck raker as you called it. It was good pay with by today's standards are exceptional benefits. And yes I worked out of a union hireing hall, I've never been somebody's company man. I've drug up off more jobs than you have fingers, if I didn't like my situation I told them (not back up and ask them for my money) to go get my check. One of those bennies, I controlled my own life. I go back to the hall and be on another job in a day or two, you see there is always a demand for skilled people.

Advancing??? Well one winter while laid off I watched my wife walk through two feet of snow to go to work while I watched drinking coffee in my living room. That afternoon I was at the local hi school signing up to take the GED class, took it passed with honors. Immediately headed to the local community college got out my checkbook and wrote a check for the total 2 year 4 semester plus books and labs AAS degree in Architectural Design, then took my associates degree to Purdue where I turned it into a Bachelors in Architectural Engineering. Still never heard of EFIS. Total time 5 years while working when time allowed. That all in my 50's. Took my withdrawal card from the union, Went to work for my state govt. doing research on new concrete and asphalt mixes. To make better safer longer lasting hi ways. My equipment all calibrated to ANSI spec. At ten years I'm fully vested in the retirement fund, the Dr.'s find my lungs have so much scare tissue from inhaling silica sand (they use it to keep bricks from sticking together) that I can no longer transfer oxygen in or carbon dioxide out efficiently enough to work.


So here I am twice retired feeding a few cows, and a few dogs. And arguing about nothing with fellow outdoor enthusiasts. I'm done arguing with you folks, you win, I'm done.
Case.
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: Stucco - 01/15/22 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by CaseXX
Dirtydog I don't have to ask lugnut anything because I will just make the assumption that if he were working 6-10-20 stories off the ground on a scaffold he would hope he has someone with my experience building it, not some fresh face kid off the street.


I'm a residential building and remodeling contractor. I don't do commercial work. The highest I get is 40-50 feet. Me and my crew build our own scaffolding.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: panaxman

Re: Stucco - 01/16/22 12:00 AM

[Linked Image]

In SE PA I see a lot stucco houses like this. This house is only 20 years old. We replace rotten 2 x 6's and plywood after tearing off the 3000 SF exterior wall. Remediation is very expensive. Most of my customer use Certaintainteed Monogram Vinyl after ridding their home of stucco.

I'm my area stucco houses raise a red flag in the resale market.
Posted By: T-Rex

Re: Stucco - 01/16/22 12:51 AM

Stucco is a great waterproof solution. Waterproof not only keeps water out; but, also keeps water in. As a former home inspector, i saw a lot of rotten framing in stucco homes. Some, just after a few years.

I owned one built in the 1920's A few holes the former owner had put in for something or another, made that house much more attractive to honeybees than a Langstroth beehive.
© 2022 Trapperman Forums