quail or chickens

I was thinking about raising some for table fare and eggs, are quail easier than chickens? Anyone experienced with both, pros and cons? thanks!

Quail are generally harder to raise, taste better than chickens IMO, the eggs of course are smaller, and are very good and often in Asian recipes :-)

My opinion is that quail are born looking for a reason to die. We use a lot of them for dog training.

lol.. well two for two on death rates. So alright, I'll look into some yickens... thanks.

I wonder if the people saying quail die easy are talking about bobwhites? Corturnix quails are quite easy to raise and have good meat and delicious, though tiny, eggs. If you get chickens for meat you'll want Cornish x

Biggest problem I saw with raising the Courtunix was you have to hatch them in an incubator. Other then that they are very hardy.

Yep Bob's for me

I think it was Keith that said he has raised a bunch of quail. Maybe he will chime in. They might be harder to raise but I think quail are as good of eating as I ever have.

I would ask this question of KeithC. He's the quail expert on here. I do believe that I have read that quail beat the pants off of chickens for feed to egg ratio gram per gram.

They're both easy but very different. Want something that can eat table scraps and forage in the yard? If so chickens. If you are keeping them in a cage in a building, quail would be my choice. As others have stated Keith has th most experience on here.

I hatch out around 60,000 coturnix quail a year. Coturnix quail are hardy as adults, with no extra heat, slightly below zero, as long as you have around 25 or more in a group. Below 20 they don't lay as well. I've raised a lot of species and breeds of birds. For me, Coturnix quail are the easiest and definitely the most prolific bird. Most Coturnix hens, if given 14 hours or more of light, will lay 300 plus eggs a year. There are roughly 5 Coturnix eggs worth of mass in 1 extra large chicken egg. Coturnix eggs will average around 14 grams. Coturnix mostly start laying at 6 weeks and 2 days of age. The earliest I have Coturnix lay is 5 weeks and 5 days. 20 Coturnix hens will lay enough eggs for a normal family of 4. I feed a 16% protein layer mash at all ages. You get faster and more growth on a higher protein diet, but the hens won't lay as well. You can effectively caponize the males by keeping them in low light, to gain about 2 additional ounces of weight.

Coturnix quail have a better feed conversion rate for eggs than chickens do. Chickens have a better feed conversion rate for meat. Chickens can be free ranged. Coturnix quail must be contained. The eggs taste very similar. Coturnix eggs have about 1% higher protein than chicken eggs. i can completely butcher a quail, if I skin it, in under 2 minutes.

I raise a lot of chickens, but not nearly as many as I do quail. I personally recommend raising some of both. There is much better profit margins on quail and their eggs than on chickens, unless you are raising very high quality show chickens.

Keith

Wife asked how long will they lay eggs

The hens will lay for at least 2 years. They lay best under 1 year of age. I usually don't keep them for more than 6 or 8 months, but I sell a huge amount of adult quail for pet food and constantly grow out more.

Keith

If you live in an area of low competition, close to a major city. You can make very decent money on Coturnix quail.. 210 hens can be kept in 96 square feet and produce 63,000 eggs in 1 year. Quail eggs typically sell for $3.00 a dozen or more. 63,000 eggs is worth $15,750.00 at $3.00 a dozen.

I keep 350 to 400 Coturnix breeder hens most of the year.

I sell live chicks for $2.00 each.

Keith

I did some research on Bobwhite quail , and it said there's a disease that chickens get that chickens can live with , but quail die from it at about 2 months of age .
Do you know anything about it Keith ?
Reason I ask is because some Amish friends tried to raise some that they let chickens hatch .
All the quail dies at about 6 weeks or so .
They just lay down and look like they're sleeping .
They stumble some and lay down and close their eyes , and they're gone .

Bobwhite quail have not been in captivity long and don't have immunity to many common viruses, bacteria and parasites. Coturnix were likely kept before people even started keeping chickens. Most captive Bobwhite are killed by ulcerative enteritis, which is caused by a Clostridium bacteria and Coccidia, a tiny parasite. Both can be treated with sulpha drugs. The best treatment was Di-Methox, but the AVA, who wants a monopoly on selling medicine for animals, paid Congress to make it illegal to get without a prescription. Bacitrin can be added to feed to help with enteritis in bobwhite. Most domestic poultry can carry both Clostridium and Coccidia, with little adverse effects, unless they become stressed. The chickens likely had both in them. Bobwhite are best kept on wire or at least deep clean sand, if outside or deep pine shaving bedding on concrete, if inside.

If they did a necropsy on their Bobwhite, the Amish would probably have found a lot of small lesions in the guts. They need to keep Bobwhite away from other poultry in dry pens.

Once, I did lose a pen of Bobwhite to poison hemlock, that was in the hay I used. They ate it, fell asleep and died. Poison Hemlock slows the nervous system down, causing the heart and lungs to work progressively slower, until death.

Chukar are effected just a little less than bobwhite by enteritis and Coccidia. Hungarian Partridge and Pheasants have much better immune systems.

Keith

I’m convinced! I’m getting Quails this Spring! Woot Woot!!

In a pen quail are easy to raise up.

Keith C ,


So if chickens aren't around , quail have a better chance of survival ?
To get the Di-Methox, you need a vet to prescribe a prescription .

Well , they really aren't the type to use a vet for quail . I could be wrong , but I don't see them doing it.
I told them to ask the people they got the eggs from about it .
Seems they raise deer and other game animals also , so they may be able to get the medicated feed for them .
I'll see them when the weather breaks , as they don't worry about snow in their driveways , and it's easy to get stuck in them .

Yes, if your Amish friends can keep other birds, including wild birds, away from the quail, they are less likely to get sick. Dry pens help greatly, especially with Coccidia, which needs moisture to live.

Yes, you now need a prescription for Di- Methox. The long name is Sulphamethadioxine. I used to buy cases of 6 1 gallon bottles.

Keith

Thank you for the information .

Coturnix quails and a raised pen for me.
I get 100 straight run chicks every year.
Sex out the males when its time.
I've read its good to keep a few males mixed in?
No expert but the feed to egg and meat was impressive to me.
Eggs all summer and then butcher when weather turns bad.

Pickled quail eggs are high on the request list from family.

Just like with chickens, if you don't need fertile eggs, you don't have to have male Cotunix quail present to get eggs. The cleanest quail eggs come from quail raised on wire. You get better feed conversion rates using the deep litter method, especially in cold weather. In wire cages, quail throw out and waste a lot of feed.

Keith

Keith, how do you keep your quail? Do you gave a picture of a laying pen?

I have 4' wide by 8' long by 2' high, plywood boxes with 2 piece, hinged, wire lids. I put pine, wood shavings on the bottom for the initial bedding. I have good concrete floors underneath. I then let the manure build up covering any wet spots with wood shavings. It's called the deep litter method and works well.

I keep 70 hen Coturnix to 20 males, which is a 3.5 to 1 ratio. I've experimented a lot and that ratio gives me the best fertility rate for the eggs, while keeping the hens in decent shape. I sell mostly chicks, adults and eggs that didn't hatch after incubation.

I can't find my pictures. I'll take some more.

Keith

Thank you so much for the input Keith, the boxes are directly on the cement or elevated? Could you could take some pictures of the boxes to use as an example? Id think id be more interested in the deep box if it helps eliminates waste.

how many quail in a 4x8x2 box?

Im looking at a minimum for a family of 4 actually, between meat and eggs.

I usually keep 70 adult Coturnix Hens and 20 adult cocks per box. You can give them more space, but they will produce okay without it. The boxes sit right on the concrete floor. I open one side of the lid, which is hinged long ways and bend in to collect the eggs. Higher up would make the pens easier to collect eggs out of, but harder to clean, less stable and more expensive to build.

A few years ago, Dermestid beetles showed up in my quail colonies. They greatly reduce the build up, so that I only need to shovel the pens out about once a year.

I use stainless steel bowls for water and rubber bowls for feed. Stainless is easier to keep clean.

Keith

This pen was made by my friend James's mother, back in the fifties or sixties, long before I was born. It was originally used to brood chicken chicks. He gave it to me in 2012, when I bought my farm. It's been in use for around 60 years. All my other quail pens are modeled after it.





Just some inside shots of some of the other pens. They are not pretty or fancy, but work well. I have 5 pens in current use. I have 9 more that will go into use soon, for the Spring rush. The other pens were made in 2012.







As you can see i have some young chickens in the 1 quail pen. They'll go to another barn soon. There's the last guinea of the year to hatch in there too.




Keith

When I used to raise some quail I had them in wire pens that the eggs would roll out to collect, is there anything wrong with that method? I want to raise quail again for eggs and thought ide go back to that setup.

Rollout pens are fine for most people. You get much cleaner eggs and the quail are less likely to break the eggs and learn to eat the eggs.

Rollout pens cost more to make. Your feed conversion rate goes down with rollout pens because quail throw feed out, often more than they eat. Deep litter pens are easier and cost less to make. The quail waste much less food in them. The pens last longer than wire pens. The manure throws heat, which keeps the quail laying longer and in better condition, during cold weather. Eggs are more likely to get soiled and cracked with the deep litter method. Egg eating can become a problem.

Since I mostly sell chicks and adults, I use the deep litter method. If I was selling mostly eggs, I would keep my quail on wire.

Deep litter is much less maintenance. The trays between the wire levels, of the battery roll out systems, need frequently emptied. Deep litter is less smelly than keeping quail on wire. Wire can cause sore feet and lameness. Deep litter can cause poop balls on the toes, which need to be removed. Both systems have their good and bad points.

Keith

Keith, I'm looking to start raising quail this spring, How far apart from my chickens should they be & can they winter outside. Thanks, John

Thanks for all the info!

I grew up raising chickens commercially and they used deep litter, it does work really well but I just want easy, clean eggs so I'll go back to the wire cages.

Rooting for this guy

Coturnix quail do fine around chickens. Coturnix quail don't have the disease issues Bobwhite do. I frequently keep chicken chicks, guinea keets and pheasant chicks, with Coturnix chicks if I don't have enough chicks to make running another brooder profitable.

Once feather hardened by exposure to rain or misting, you can keep Coturnix outside without shelter as long as there is 25 or more in a group, in areas with weather like Central, Ohio. I think deep snow and extended periods below zero F would be to much, but don't have any experience with conditions like that and Coturnix.

I would keep Bobwhite, the Southwestern Quail species and Chukar Partridge in a separate building, if possible, from chickens, pigeons and other poultry. If outside, 150 feet is probably sufficient distance as long as the wind doesn't blow towards them and the water doesn't drain towards them.

Keith

I have access to 4 different breeds of Coturnix quails around me. Do they all taste the same and same egg size?

The different colors of Coturnix quail all have meat and eggs that taste the same. Diet can change the flavor some. For a long time there was 4 colors available. Now with the new patterning genes and modifiers, there is a very large number of different appearances for Coturnix. I get well over 60 variations in my Coturnix.

Unlike chickens, there are no fixed breed standards for Coturnix. Even the word Jumbo, in referring to Coturnix, has no agreed upon, set meaning. Most Coturnix hens will weigh from 11 to 16 ounces now and most males are about 1 1/2 ounces lighter than the hens.

What people call jumbo browns, which are a size selected version of the wild type, were the first bigger Coturnix. Now most of the colors have the same potential size, if selected for it.

Smaller to medium sized Coturnix lay better than the really big ones. Eggs average 14 grams.

Keith

Lots of good information

Thanks Keith! You answered everything and more!

For all who thanked me, you're all welcome. I am glad to help.

Please feel free to ask if you have any more questions on quail.

Keith

I saw someone on ebay that was selling blue coturnix eggs. That was a new one on me.

They call those Celadon eggs. They were all the rage a few years ago. They were very expensive after first being smuggled into the US and were later brought in legally. The Celadon Coturnix quail have a lot of genetic problems. The eggs are often weaker. Just like in Maran Chickens, most of the color is placed on the egg as it goes through the ovipositor. You can wash most of the color off a Coturnix egg.

I had some Celadon Coturnix a few years ago. I didn't like them and didn't try to isolate and keep the gene.

Keith

To do this correctly, what would we be looking at monthly costs for feed and everything for that size of box and 50 -75 birds? Besides feed, what medicines, chemicals or whatever other care agents would be needed?
That wouldn't take up much space at all. I was originally thinking of a box and covered pen attached to the shed out back untill I saw your box.

So alright, now I'm thinking of inside the garage along the wall with a heat lamp. Anything different?

How often do you change the bedding, and what do you recommend getting from a feed store or say rural king, etc.

A very rookie question but do you clip the wings or what's the reason they aren't flushing once you move the lid back to collect them or the eggs?

Adult sized Coturnix eat roughly one ounce of feed per day. Feed consumption varies based on the feed used, I feed a 16% protein layer mash, the ambient temperature, age, sex, whether or not the quail is laying, the amount of light, which effects activity level, the bird's individual metatabolism and other factors.

In temperate weather, 50 pounds of feed will typically feed 50 quail for 16 days or 75 quail for 10 days. 1 Coturnix hen will eat around 23 pounds of feed a year and produce around 9 pounds of eggs.

I would not keep any medicine for Coturnix. They're usually healthy. I immediately cull any quail that seems off.

Heat lamps will only be needed for chicks. Day old chicks need a high point of 95F to 99F with enough space to get away from the heat source into the mideighties. They can take around 5F lower per week until fully fledged.

I clean my pens about once a year, preferably after the first cutting of hay, so I can use a manure spreader to fertilize the fields. I add more wood shavings if the pens get wet. I also add wood shavings to raise the water bowls up.

Feed is cheaper from a feed mill than TSC or Rural King in most places. 50 quail will use around $24.00 in feed a month. 75 quail will cost around $36.00 to feed a month.

Buy quail lip waterers, that screw onto mason jars, if you decide to start with chicks. Chicks will readily drown if given the chance. Start chicks on paper towels with the rough side up. Chicks can eat small pieces of wood shavings and starve, so don't using wood shavings for the first few weeks. Chicks can fly some by about 3 weeks of age.

I can leave my pens open, while feeding or collecting eggs, because I selectively breed my Coturnix to be docile. Young birds are a little more flighty. The first time a young quai flies out of a pen, I pull the flights out of one wing, which prevents controlled flight. If it happens again, I cull it. Adult birds that fly out of a pen are culled. Nervous adult birds are culled. Wildness is mostly genetic in birds and mammals. In mice, there are actual formulas that can identify how wild a mouse is based on the timed distance it covers when released in the center of a specific sized room.

Keith

I have a small quail pen built off the chicken coop window. I close it in the winter but the quail do just find in cold temps. Don't bother them a bit except the turds freeze and wont go through the wire. I keep it closed for the chickens inside.

The heated bucket waterer with nipples is nice. Quail take to it and works great. I never had one freeze yet and they use it year round ,no hassel at all.

I like that big feed pan Keith has. They tend to throw more feed than they eat.

If you have a incubator they are easy to hatch and raise, almost none die on me. I get more eggs off 10or so hens than I can use. I am constantly giving eggs away, friends love them. The yolks are creamy not dry like a chicken egg. Make great pickled bite sized eggs too.

I would raise quail if I could.

For those interested in learning more about coturnix quail, Quail Con 2022 is in Miamisburg, OH 45342 on September 3rd and 4th. So far, people from 49 of the 50 US states, plus people from several foreign countries, have registered to attend.

https://myshirefarm.com/quail-con-2021

On site camping is available. Several hundred people have already registered. There will be classes, paid experts on hand to answer questions (including me) and a quail feast. This is the largest convention on coturnix quail in the world.

Keith

Awesome Keith^^^

cool!

Is there an easy way to sex them other then wait to see them crow?

Do we have an archive for topics like this? Cause it should definitely be preserved. What a wealth of knowledge!

I had been considering getting chukar or quail, and had I not read this I’d have just put them in with my chickens. Thanks for saving me from that blunder!

2 hrs 18 min drive checked schedule and I'm working nights. Grr

A little after 5 weeks of age, males will develop a foam ball, on the tail side of the vent, that when pushed, expresses a white, foamy substance, that resembles shaving cream. The substance is placed in the female during copulation and feeds the stored sperm for up to 2 weeks.

Females, after they start laying, will have a very wide, horizontally stretched vent, that is bluish in color. Any foam placed in the vent by the males will be loose, spread out and on the belly side of the vent.

In most varieties of coturnix, the females will have spots on the breast, like immature quail, after the adult molt and males will have colored feathers, without spots. Overall males have a more upright cast. Females will be on average 1 1/2 to 2 ounces heavier.

Keith

Didn't bother to read the post above. My dad was the biggest supplier of bobwhite quail on the east coast for 10 plus years. He raised Wisconsin giants and and had a 50' by 200 ' flight conditioning pen. Supplied every feild trail within 400 miles. Raised them in commercial laying pens and incubated The eggs in cabinet style incubator that hatched 5000 at a time.
Courtinex quail are 10 times more efficient but the size and taste is no comparison.

Wow that is awesome

I went to Quail Con 2022 today. I answered questions people had on quail and making a living with a small farm for pretty close to 7 hours straight. I think I helped a lot of people learn ways to make a decent amount of money. I got a lot of very appreciative feedback.

It was a nice event. A little over 400 people attended from all over the US and a few foreign countries. There were a lot of good classes offered and tours. From the people I talked to, I would guess there were many more people from out of state than Ohio. There was an extremely busy food truck during the day. In the evening many hundreds of quail and a kunekune barrow were grilled to perfecton.

If any of you are seriously interested in quail, I would highly recommend going next year.

Keith

Sounds like a good time Keith.

I searched and dug this post up yesterday wanting to look at your boxes you use for your birds. Depending on how things work I may be starting some fall chicks for layer hens next spring and thought your box design would make a good brooder and grow ouf pen for them until feathered out well.

One question on the quail, how do they handle the heat?

Keith , I have a couple of questions I'm hoping you can help me with . My first batch of quail (jumbo coturnix) that I hatched out in late February / March had the feathers on most of their back curled up since they developed them as chicks . Any idea what causes that ? Second , those same quail lost all their feathers on their backs and have not regrown them (its been well over a month) with very few pin feathers showing . Third I've had several laying hens die I'm assuming after laying eggs . The area around the vent was bloody . I could see a bit of blood on the eggs and some in the pen . Its happened to what appear to be very healthy hens that have been laying eggs for months . Any help would be appreciated .

Coturnix take heat pretty well if in the shade and given full access to water. They will drink and pant a lot. To much direct summer sun can kill them.

Keith

The feathers curling could be from getting wet and then dirty with fecal matter that drys, protein deficency or genetics. The feathers not growing back could be from damage to the follicles, when the feathers curled, likely exacerbated by plucking. If plucking is the issue, trimming the thin tip of the upper mandible of the beak back, with nail clippers, so that it is shorter than the lower mandible will help. It makes it hard for the quail to grasp feathers hard enough to pull them out.

The dead hens are likely prolapsing when laying and tearing their cloacas. Often other quail will peck and eat the prolapsed cloaca on the still live quail causing it to bleed out. Quail hens, that don't lay the smaller pullet eggs first, often prolapse. Older hens, which have stopped laying for a while, that start laying again, often prolapse too.

Keith

Dag gone Keith You are a walking computer of knowledge when it comes to quail I f you did not mention it in your post it must not be important Once again the members on Trapperman can answer just about any question and get and answer in a short time

Thank you Keith . Id like to think its genetics as they have never really spent any time in a dirty or wet environment . Ive never seen them pulling feathers but who knows what's going on when I'm not there to see . They were fed a 30 % protein game bird feed for the first 8-9 weeks then gradually switched over to a mix of the 30% and a 16% poultry laying crumble . Ive hatched out about 100 or so of their offspring and some are showing the same feather curling though the majority are not .

You're welcome. I feed all my quail a 16% layer ration at all ages. The very high protein level you are feeding could be an issue.

Keith

Ok , thanks