Political question..I think

Question, when does a political following Turn into a cult of personality?

When you swallow what you're told without stopping to question or think about it.

Mike

Same as claiming to be a member of ANY political party, instead of being an independent and using your brains.

When you don't call out someone that does something you don't agree with just because you like them. I liked Trump a lot, but I'll not hesitate to say he did things I hated.... such as the Covid relief checks.

Good question.

Maybe the inverse is true when a cult blinds one to a political truth.

I would opine when it cross the line from political support to personal allegiance.

I would fathom this question may be in response to the rather strong support of our most recent lawfully elected president. Of which I am in support of.

Yes, it's scary to put so much faith in the abilities of just one political figure. Especially when that one has major faults. However I would say that with or without the individual there is a movement of shared principle and we the supporters will see it through with or without him. Further we actively seek out others to carry the platform forward.

Some of the above cultists and many of the cultists on their way should read Mark's discernment post again. Then they should discern real hard before answering.

A not too surprising post by BC.

When you feel the need to defend a person or party that does not have your personal best interest at heart.

Sometimes you hit a lick Ang

I discern that a bovine critter just had a huge bowel movement.

Yes and no. I am registered Republican... But I have to be registered in a "state sanctioned" party to vote in primaries.

While I don't particularly toe anyone's line I still have to put up with playing by their BS rules.

Mike

I don't think he wanted to , timing was bad , and dang if you do dang if you don't situation

Same as claiming to be so open minded independent that you fall for the flavor of the month or have no hard core values.

And for the record I'm a constitutional conservative.

Walking around thinking you're independent minded and maybe even smarter than those around you is fine . But at the end of the day if you don't choose one of two sides you are just a worthless piece of crap and completely in the way

Now where's that dang like button!

When you walk into the big city ritzy hotel lobby fund raiser n see all the cookies n dixi-cups, and take that first drink of the kool-aid. Just my opinion of course.

Kool aid comes in many flavors and colors. We all have our favorites or the ones we don't like. The real important issue to know is what else are they putting in the Kool Aid of your choice?

Bryce

Agree 100% but some think there are only two. There's and everyone else's.

There are now very few areas of modern Western culture that aren't marinated and infected with too much political speak.
And there is a main reason for this.
Hope.

Our main hope in America, Canada, and Europe is absolutely and fundamentally different than what it used to be only 4-5 generations ago when it comes the total of our populace.
There are of course outliers but the one who gives the masses hope is working overtime to bring any rogues to heal. Whatever it takes. Today, bank accounts. Tomorrow who can say.

The masses cry out for more rights, more stuff, more everything from the one who gives them hope!
Government!
So the political strategists give the people what the polls tell the strategists the people want.... more rights, more stuff, more everything... more hope.

Why are so many people so P'ed off these days? The government has been on Star Trek warp drive like never before giving and doling out and promising goodies and hope. Or so the politicians tell us.
You'd think 20+ trillion would have created just about the most fun loving people there's ever been.
Maybe 20+ trillion more would help with people not being so P'ed off?

Need more $$$$ to buy hope? Hold on. Crank up the money presses.
Need more equality for the "people?" Hold on. Elevate one ethnic group above until people forget who outranks who.
Need more hope? Whatchaallneed? the pundit politicians ask the masses in 2022.

I need what that person has.
I need life to be fair.
I need my way paved.
I need.
I need
I need.
And the politician says sure.
Tell me more.
Whisper it in my other ear.

In answer to the OP, we are so far out of perspective as a people, we have elevated to prominence what was never meant to be there (the governing officials) and boys will be boys and girls will be girls. They are the cult. They know it. And they know the people cry out for a king and they are it.

Expect more of the same, because the masses of people have made what was never meant to be the main thing, the main thing.

And some of us will never be brought to heal to proclaim that this is our main hope.
That'd be fishing in a pond with little fishies and no bait on the hook.

Blessings,
Mark

I like that post but I define hope a little differently.

You just described the liberal left and inadvertently included yourself in that mess

Sure, we can place hope in the government KC, but today, more than any time in this nation's history, it's a full blown worship service and faith be to the glory of the politicans.
That's outta whack.

Blessings,
Mark

AntiGov,
I disagree 100%.

And you know full well as you read my posts, I have as very little humanist, progressive bent in me. Some. I mean I am a product of 400 years of renaissance, enlightenment, and post modern secret sauce.
But I will place no ultimate hope in a human government.
I will respect it. I have worked to get certain people elected. I submit to the authority of it.

Your view is not accurate but then it wouldn't be atypical.

Blessings,
Mark

Romans 13:1-2
New King James Version
Submit to Government
13 Let every soul be (A)subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists (B)the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will [a]bring judgment on themselves

The people I know are sick of politicians. All politicians.

My brother and sister ln law were here today. We were talking about how they all say wonderful things. Acknowledge problems. Then make things worse. I am starting to think no government would best. Anarchy.

Obviously I don't put much faith in government , but have you seen the modern day pastor or church leaders these days ? Truly unbelievable , preaching over and around anything uncomfortable . Anything goes as long as the church grows with more customers

I'll stick to my statement , I know who you are .....that's why I used the word " inadvertently "

I am aware of this verse and Mark 12:17 and Luke 20:24 which means in a contextual way, submit the things to the government which are the governments and submit the things to God which are God's. That'd be material and spiritual in that order.

You are aware, there are what you call liberals (in a political sense) in government?

That'd be your philosophical interpretation but not mine. I think that's accurate.

You are aware, there are what you call liberals (in a political sense) in government?
[/quote]



And demonic spirits in the church

I've often wondered about this in light of our unique system of governance. People didn't get to elect caesars. They were at the mercy of their whims and dictates. But in our system, a document, not a man, is the supreme law of our land. We have a voice in who will represent/lead us.

When we were admonished to obey the laws of the land, then by that we are to obey the Constitution. Obeying a president's dictates that are against the Constitution would be akin to obeying a minister's teachings that go against scripture.

Whom do you obey? The man or the scripture?

I know, way off the beaten path. But I feel it's a fair question.

Mike

And demonic spirits in the church [/quote]


I think there is a verse somewhere that states the church will be corrupted. The trick is to know the word use that discerning brain God gave you to avoid being lead astray. Find a church that sticks to God's word or start one yourself. The people of God are the church after all not the building they meet in.

I think there is a verse somewhere that states the church will be corrupted. The trick is to know the word use that discerning brain God gave you to avoid being lead astray. Find a church that sticks to God's word or start one yourself. The people of God are the church after all not the building they meet in.[/quote]


I agree

When you know which party you'll vote for, before knowing who the candidate is.

Lenin, Idi Amien , Hitler, khmer rouge, Seems a bit odd to be told it is a sin to stand against them.

Back to politics. All successful politicians have charisma. people are just attracted to them. So maybe all politics is cult like.

There are more liberal seminaries now than during the era of the liberalists (early 19th century). Sadly.
I attend one of the last bastions of non-denominational fundamentalism as the remnant attempts to preserve and pass on what was handed down to the faithful and has been believed everywhere, always, and by all (Orthodoxy). Jude 1:3 is vital.

There is much hope as conservatives around the world are importing conservatism to our country as our brites attempt to import liberalism abroad.
It is NOT what the News @ 11 is reporting but solid things are occurring as they always will.

It's always been a remnant and it's always been impossible odds but that's the way the Lord operates time and time again.
When all seems lost, it never was.

Blessings,
Mark

When i can get flannel shirts at 98% off at JC Penny's made by 11 year old skilled asian craftsmen again thats who i'm following

Not only is this thinking not off the beaten path, it's the main path in many ways. It's what Christ was saying to the religious leader Pharisees trying to trick him (Mk 12:17). When making discernment decisions, Jesus taught to realize that there are those things which do not belong to any government. They belong to God.
Which is which is what we all decide.

This is all big picture stuff is the theme of Jesus' answer, when in fact, most people think small picture.

Blessings,
Mark

Why would it be a sin to stand against them?

An orthodox Christian would denounce all these.
Many have and have died for their faith.
Many still are.
Every day.

Evil knows where truth resides and the darkness tries to overcome the Light.

Or really should.

Round and round the mulberry bush.

How do political posts get turned into religious sermons?

The same way me asking about weapons turning into a post about sanctions I guess ,you guess is as good as mine

That'd be termed a worldview. Your allowance (freedom) for other worldviews not on a long tether this evening?
You prefer mulberries and some folks prefer blueberries.
You struggle quite a bit with one worldview in particular and that's ok.
There's a lot of that going around these days.

Blessings,
Mark

30 years ago, it may have been hard to discern what we were as both sides made good arguments.
When Obamba was elected, that changed ALLOT.
I vote R although I gotta admit I'm a bit ashamed as what R means but as of right now, I'd be disgusted have the D moniker attached to me!

When the personality takes precedent over the policy. Trump supporters are often accused of this. Liberals are creatures of emotion and conservative Trumpsters are more likely to be pragmatic.

Yep. Liberalism (by philosophical definition) is an emotional position.
If you are debating, arguing, or flat out even trying to discuss facts, figures, stats, history, or any other logical process with a liberal please realize....
they hate that.

You're calling their baby (emotions) ugly.

What about classical liberalism of the enlightenment vs the modern progressive liberalism?

I don't believe you have to be on the left or right to be a man of hard core values. The main problem with this America is people divided.You call yourselves Conservatives or Liberals I'm right down the middle on separate issues, not claiming to be on one sides or other.Neither side is right or wrong, today we need to be less one sided and willing to do what makes every American have a better life. A fur trapper fore Ever!

The problem with standing on top of the fence post appeasing those approaching from either side is you either become confused or untrustworthy or both

I want the country to stop accumulating debt.

No Antigovernment I'm not confused or untrustworthy I call it the way I was brought up and call it the way I see it. Don't need a political fence post to guide my beliefs.

Hey it's your story ....

Just messing with you , only you can choose what's best for you

please explain how one is right down the middle on separate issues on abortion? or domestic sovereignty or charging criminals or 1st amendment?
seems these and many more are yes/no with no middle
Abortion or life
closed borders with documentation, or a free for all
charging and incarcerating offenders or let them free to repeat their offences
free speech or let some third party decide what one can say


It is true we were never this divided, couldn't be. dems and reps wanted in the same goals, strong safe America leading the world, good education system,
safety and security for Americans in America and abroad etc etc etc.

We disagreed on how to obtain these goals, Humphry Mondale era dems wanted to tax tax tax and the government spending would prime the economy, Repubs wanted less tax and govt and the private sector with its' capital flow will prime the economy.
We argued and debated but that all ended "at the border" we all took America's side in any international issue.

Today's dems want none of that, they feel America is XXXist whatever the XXX is. And want to fundamentally change or replace it.
That leaves little ground for "middle"

I assume he meant he's conservative on some issues and liberal on others. For example, someone fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I imagine that would be a living heck because you'd go through life never happy and hating both sides.

Thankfully I'm pretty far right, although there are a few issues I lean left on... like legalizing and/or decriminalizing drugs, allowing felons to vote (and have guns!), etc.

Welp this post has answered some stuff

Hard core values of not ever making a decision or taking a position that you would have to defend.

Irony is choosing not to decide is a decision.

How so?

When you hear socially liberal people often make the assumption that someone is "for" a certain issue. That isn't necessarily so. It may mean they don't care about an issue enough to grant government the right to control or enforce the issue.

Example: We have a law in Oklahoma that requires me to show ID to buy Sudafed or it's generic equivalent. This was done to put a dent in the meth problem. You go to the counter and ask for a box of the medicine. You have to show ID and they record how many boxes you bought. So, in theory, LE can check these records to see who is buying up all the Sudafed and it would help narrow down who to check out. But it hasn't done squat to stop the meth problem, they're still cooking, selling, and blowing their houses apart... But I still have to show ID.

Now showing ID to buy sinus medicine isn't exactly an onerous overreach... But it sets the precedent to give idiot politicians the power to infringe on a lot of other things in the name of public safety, health, or any other stupid reason they come up with... And the meth heads are still blowing their houses up cooking the crap because they found other sources for ingredients.

The law did nothing to solve the problem. But it gave politicians the opportunity to get their toe in the door... And the last couple of years have proven what happens when you give them that little bit of power.

So socially liberal doesn't necessarily indicate someone is "for" a certain issue... It might just mean they're against giving government a little more power that they can use as an excuse for overreach later on.

The Patriot Act and the 1/6 folks rotting in cells waiting trial is another good example. Some folks here would say those folks deserve it... But everyone thinks that until it's their turn... And then they wonder where their fair and speedy trial is at.

Mike

We're looking for a voice, someone with brains and articulate enough to convey the message we want heard. Those types aren't a dime a dozen. I'll follow the person who champions my cause, that doesn't make me a member of a cult.

Tell me about Biden’s charisma.

Charisma vs cognitive....lol

I agree. Here's another issue. I find homosexuality disgusting. I think it's abnormal, unnatural and a sin against God. BUT I also don't think the government should be in the business regulating who someone should love or marry (except, of course, in the case of minors). If they want to marry, let them, I don't care. They don't have to answer to me, but one day will to God. I don't feel they should be allowed to have a church wedding, but again, that's not the Gov't's concern... it should be the churches banning that! (When you get into other issues regarding this topic such as men in women's bathrooms or women's sports, that a whole different topic)!

And then now and then there is a belief I hold that I don't even KNOW what side of the aisle it falls on. I don't believe America should go to war with Russia to save corrupt Ukraine. I don't believe America should be involved in any wars that don't directly involve us. I used to think that was a liberal viewpoint. But now liberals are chomping at the bit to fight Russia. Some conservatives are too. So I have no idea where that belief of mine falls.

Lol, there's the exception to the rule.

You hit the nail on the head Ang!

Mike

Your belief falls on the side of mainstream America IMO Ang. Talking heads on TV want us divided. Racism, class warfare, a sense of entitlement seem to be the goal. I dont think the enemy of the American people is in a foreign country.