FHA Grades are up & posted !!!!

Woke up in the middle of the night
and decided to check to see if the
FHA grades had been posted yet.

They are up, at least the muskrat catalog is.

Cheers

walleyed

The bidders catalog with pictures is up and working. Buyers can start bidding when ever they want. First lot closes at 7 AM eastern time on Thursday the 24th.

NOTE - only registered buyers can see the bidding catalog. The catalog with values is also posted but I’m not sure if anyone can see that catalog.

I can't believe that it took this long for someone to post. My account was updated with all the grades Monday morning at 6 am central. I have been waiting for all the "the graders hate me" and "why would you ship your fur there" posts. Those are my entertainment going into every auction. I am very happy with my grades. Might even have a couple top lots in there. Does anyone know if they are still sending out the Top Lot certificates?

Possible Top Lots
2 pelts in Raccoon lot 90161
1 pelt in Skunk lot 180001

Schmattz

Been talking about it on another thread since Sunday, but still no prices post for stuff sold PT since July sale.

I got one last year. So, probably. Stroked me pretty heavy about being an ambassador of the fur industry in an accompanying letter. Hence, I have nothing on this sale.

tuff grades 0n rats at least for me

After the give a ways the last few yrs at fha. I can not believe a single person sent them fur this year.

^ right on cue! Lol

Does the FHA have a posted valuation amount? I never really ever looked for one. I did not look often at NAFA either. During slow or down markets valuations were typically optimistic. I don't know if those were hoped for values or realistic values. I thought my rat and mink grades were good. I had 7 early November mink that had 2 selects and only 1 11 grade. On the rats I had about a half that were in the winter grades.

Bryce

Valuations are posted for buyers and their customers to see. I’m not sure if shippers can see them or not.

The problem with posting valuations is that the complaint starts right away. If they don’t post valuations for shippers to see, then the complaining doesn’t start until after the goods have been through the auction.

It was nice ,years ago when they gave out cool stuff ,like this Mink Board for Top Lot !

Right, especially with the huge paydays folks have been getting locally with Groeny, or the state sales?

I do hope that auction houses such as FHA can stay operating as the auctions do provide an option for marketing commercial fur.

Bryce

I'm all for as many options as there could be and never Say never. But I'll never ship f h a one single article of fur ever again

Day 2 of the auction. I'm guessing we will see some updates by the end of today. I'm guessing those updates won't be very promising.... Did anyone every hear or confirm if they are selling PT after the auction concludes?

They have increased their cold storage capability.There is also another sale in June,not too far away.They could consider PT sales after the June sale depending on how it goes is my guess.

Apparently they have already been doing some PT sales. I called FHA asking them why several of my bobcat lot numbers didn't appear in the auction catalog. The answer I got was they had already sold PT and the price would be updated after the auction.

That has been my question a number of times on here. Some fur has obviously been sold, probably months ago. Is there a reason they will not update accounts till after the auction? or just their outdated accounting software? Yes, I have asked FHA and no response yet, but I know they are busy.

Might skew the current evaluarions in the catalogue.

A logical answer, thanks.

All we wanna know...and im not the only one wondering this....im just the one elected to make the post on this thread.......What really happens to the 25% of everyones fur that gets graded "NV" through Fur Harvesters?

I've sold thousands of pelts through fha and don't remember having any that graded NV. Every fur you catch is not high quality, but I don't send junk.

I've never seen that either. Must be a southern thing.

Well it sure isn't 25% of everyones fur, since I've never lost a pelt, so 25% of the shippers must really be getting the shaft.

My understanding is that the pelts FH grade as NV, are taken out and buried by Fish & Game. At one time I said I would take the NV pelts and do something with them. They just laughed. I don’t think they liked the idea that some one might make money off a pelt they think is worthless!!

If you’re worried about complaints as an auction house you probably should find another line of work. I liked valuations when NAFA. did them just because it gave you a general idea. Sad fact in today’s world every selling option we have can say we are lucky we’re even buying or selling your fur. To many trapping was something more than a hobby but a way to supplement your income.

Speaking of worthless/no value fur.

Nancy,

Have they sold the muskrat catalog yet ?

walleyed

They haven't even dug the trench yet Walleye!

The letter from FH that Jerry got said NV fur was given to the Ontario DNR
.or whatever they're called..to be disposed at their discretion.

But yet they just sold coyotes up there and got .50?

The 50 cent coyotes werent NVd but yet our coon..that graded # 2 were NVd?

We got 1.00 for our section 3s at a big name buyer last year


Who determines what's an NV?

We were told by the same buyer that he talked to a guy out of Ohio who was told
.when he questioned FH about why 300 of his 1000 foxes were NVd ...that it was because the packing and handling came to more than the pelt would sell for......he averaged 1.72 on those 1000 reds(700) after the 300 NV.
Before commission.

.but yet a yote goes for 50..and we all know that a yote that brought .50 cent is a piece of crap in any market..

All I can say is thanks FH because because of your grading and NV policy..whatever it is..we found alternative markets for our fur which are much more lucrative for us.

Those markets may not be traditional fur markets but they're fur markets just the same


Despite the disappointing wording of the article in Trappers Post.

If the guy averaged 1.72 on the 700 "better" reds, I think it is pretty obvious why the 300 poor ones graded NV.

Trapping to early or to late will produce a lot of No Value fur in the coming years. Just because fur producers remember that early caught fur used to bring some kind of satisfactory return (money) that will not always be the case, especially going forward. Like most things in life TIMING is important.

So walleyed. since you're reading why didn't you answer the question .if you ha e a clue...what really happens to NV pelts?

And yourw Wrong about the foxes...

The buyer said he offered him 5 straight the guy said hed take his chances with y'all. Then said he wished he hadn't and that hed never ship another piece of fur to FH. Ive had 20 guys tell.me the same thing.

The big buyer said they were of good quality just small


And How do raccoons that yalls(FHs) own grader graded #2. Become NVs and get tossed

A number 3 or 4 we could understand..but #2s?

By the same.token if you wait on some.of it there's no access because of snow


And jerrys october caught marten just brought 35 av on 275


And not all southern fur is junk
.either.
We sold a bunch of that for good money too..like otter for 42 nose count on em
.like 81 total

Around here trapping and putting up red fox for $5 would be considered NV. That would be Negative Value.

Rarely do I agree with Dirt but here I do. Trapping and putting up red Fox for $5. Better pay off cutting and selling firewood.

Don Rumford (a higher up at FH) told me the NV pelts are given to the DNR to be disposed of. He said they bury them but I do not know if that is true.

Based on what I’ve seen in person at FH, they offer for sale some very rough looking pelts. If those pelts are being graded and offered for sale, I can’t imagine how bad the NV pelts were.

In some cases, it almost looks like the DNR is reconsigning the NV pelts to be graded and sold for their account. Just kidding, I think…….

Wissmiss...That's what we think

And we didn't send any blue or rubbed coon.

None of them we sent graded lower than a #2... that's why we don't understand how they were deemed NVs

Otter have taken a nice bump up in price just recently, there's demand. A lot of Sables in the fur market usually come from Russia, they cannot be exported now and that may last for another year. You happened to put a several years worth of Sables up for sale in a year where buyers are really searching them out, congratulations. But southern Wyoming sables caught in early fall won't do that all the time. I have a friend that just moved to Saratoga WY. last summer, and he trapped marten in November from Bridger Peak to Hog Park which is probably near the same vicinity to where Jerry trapped and his best just sold for $63 and his average was $49 and small change, (72) skins all sold. for the first year in a new area, he's a really good marten trapper.

Walleyed and I are not the same guy, but no matter.

I think we have all turned down offers, then later wish we hadn't. I wouldn't blame him for turning down a $5 offer on 1000 red fox, but yes, sometimes it comes back to bite you. I just turned down a decent offer on a bunch of beaver pelts, hoping to do better elsewhere. If not, it's no ones fault but my own.

I have nothing to do with Fur Harvesters other than occasionally sell through them, so I have no idea what happens to NV pelts.

I have shipped thousands of pelts to both auction houses for almost 50 years-never had a no value pelt.
I have seen some no value pelts from both auction houses..

Years ago no value pelts were taken by MNR and some were given to the FN to use.The rest were disposed of (incinerated I believe).
I had a buddy bring some to me that he got thru his band that had been traditionally tanned,To make one hat for him it took around 7 foxes and a lot of cutting and sewing to find enough useful fur.

I also seen some No Value beaver that the local FN got from MNR-they were untannable by any means.

I dont think the FN craft people take No value fur anymore-The stuff I seen is pretty much useless to try to do anything with.

"The Northern areas of Canada and Alaska produce a Sable that is larger in size and heavy in weight. The Central and Southern areas of Canada and Northern U.S. produce Sables that are smaller in size and lighter in weight. Pelts from the Western U.S. are flat with loose underfur, light in weight and have hazy tone to the colour."

Only 310 Sables graded Western in the Catalog. Must be some intersorting going on. I bet they weren't in the samples.

Wywolfer... he has NEVER sold his marten for less than 35.00 in the country or at auction.

Some of the ones he sold this year actually brought 45 ..but the average was close to 36 overall this year.


Maybe you should look at the quality of the marten he has before you make such generalized statements about fur you've never actually seen .

And they were sold to a regular fur buyer and not for the craft market..

And get this...the buyer he sold to is in Wyoming so I'm pretty sure he has a clue to the quality of the fur he's buying...
.


Our thing is if its NVd in the country you get it back and they will explain to you why it has no value

They don't just say its worthless and keep it..and sell it
.or do whatever they want with it

Tom Krause told Jerry dont trap the marten before the 15th. Of october..he said if Jerry waited he wouldn't have the section 3s so that what Jerry does.

And he's done usually by Nov 2nd or 3rd...depending on the weather

We moved out season from Oct. 15 to Nov. 01 20 years ago and are a lot better off for it. Marten are not going anywhere and maybe push a bit of snow but worth it for the priming that goes on. Better again Nov. 15 if a person can wait.

My Alaskan grandson sold his lynx for $110.00 and his red fox for $50.00.

For real? Who was the buyer?

When he contacted Jerry and offered him 35 straight he said with Jerry's his order was filled because we asked him if he needed anymore because we were going to tell a friend about the market .

For real?



Who was the buyer?

Hes a big buyer in Wyoming and a member of TMan



If he wants his identity known he will.post on thia thread


I'm not.gonna post his name because hes already said his orders full and I don't want him over run with people calling him trying to sell theres to him.

I'll tell you in PM if you dont post it on the open forum

No Value NV pelts are disposed of in the landfill.

In general a no value pelt has gone through a full season of auctions before being deemed no value.

I have never seen no value pelts disposed of in any other fashion.

Mostly happens for example on eastern/central type coyote or raccoons.

When the auction calls them no value it is the last thing they want to do because they have money involved in them too.

In the past anything and everything was shipped to auction for example rubbed out junk or really early small skins, summer road kills. You don't see as much now but some trappers thing if they catch it they have to skin it.

FHA threw away a lot folks bottom third of red fox and raccoon a while back. The facts are these pelts were not mangy, badly rubbed, summer caught junk no matter how anyone wants to spin it. The same type of pelts brought BIG money back in 2013.

The market has changed and the lower end has no to little value BUT the high end is not worth much either!

I understand there was no demand for these type of pelts and I also understand that FHA was not going to store forever but accusing trappers of sending pure garbage is insulting because many of us know what fur we sent and also know for a fact that these pelts would have some value in alternative markets.

How is a trapper to know what is NV when the needle on the barometer is always changing??

They may have value if someone adds value to them,but no value on the raw fur market.

I can not comment on what they do today, but try and keep in mind they have to invested time and money in the pelts.

Some you folks should attend the auction and see the process for yourselves. Calling it no value is the last thing they want to do.

They are their own worse enemy because when the market for something is hot they jam the crap into it.

When the market is bad and this should be no surprise to anybody the bad stuff falls off the table.

With less and less selling opportunities it is getting harder and harder to sell just about anything.

Maybe some of you have noticed not many places let to sell anything.

It is truly a rock and a hard place. It is easy to say “trap later” or “cherry pick and send the best” but what happens when the next market swing occurs and when once a November caught fox or raccoon has no value now becomes a December pelt having no value simply because the trapper lives in the wrong section? It’s a game of Russian Roulette.

The reality is is that the practice is forcing the hand of those who once were content in shipping to get creative in finding new outlets for their fur. That’s probably a great thing for fur producers but maybe not such a good thing for an auction house whose revenue comes from moving a volume of fur.

Well, if a fur dealer in Ohio had 1000 red fox I'd like to know, where did they come from, how many were stale goods, from how many years ago etc. As far as NV's are concerned, I've sent a lot of raccoon up there over the years, none recently, and I doubt I've had over 2-3 NV's in all the thousands sent, and none of them were there less than a year, more like at least 2 years, and they were small off grade skins that I wouldn't even think of buying in todays market.

Last year a few hundred rats were shipped, more than double that amount sold to a big buyer that has direct markets, I was happy with the direct market rats but the FHA rats averaged almost a dollar more, was real happy with that and in hindsight wished I had sent them all up and took a chance. I also cherry picked some coyotes from western Kansas and sent them last year, two didn't sell. One did last week, a 1X-Lg select semi D for $22.00. Last year a 1X-Lg I semi D sold for $43.00. Kind of wish the select would have sold last year, but the market is gone and there's nothing I can do about it now.

Since I've been trapping the grade has been changing with the demand, and according to the A R Harding book from 1915 I've been reading for entertainment, that was the case back then too. A hot market means a soft grade, a weak market means a tough grade, I would really hope that no one out there doesn't understand that this overall market is now as bad, or almost as bad as most of us have seen in our lifetime. For my section fur there is much of it that is truly no value on the world fur market right now, learn to tell what you have, if it's NV then simply don't skin it.

Good and interesting post Mr. Daniels.

I can't pm you, your message inbox is full.


I would like to know, for curiosity sake.

But you don't owe me anything.

Thanks

The grade doesn't change it is the market base that is always in flux.

For example;

A $12.00 top lot for the best muskrat gives a market base with lots of room for a 5% drop per grade right down to the smalls, kits and damages.

A $6.00 top means the base does not support the off grades.

Same grades but half the grades are selling for nothing or going unsold.

Trappers are left wondering what is going on,

In a hot market when you have competition for the goods you can push the grades a little, but understanding the market base is what really drives the sales.

In a down market the grade is tighter because the buyers can and will ask for their money back if the goods don't match the grade.

Good explanation Jim.
Could see it play out in the Coyote market over the last few years.

Marty B.

Message sent

Agreed, and your last two lines are exactly what I am saying. Grades will have the same name, yes, but the skins within that grade name will differ slightly depending on the market. It's been that way in the country for my lifetime because that's what the end users were obviously agreeable to.

Your last line hold true and return shipping is costly

lots of discussion on not sending the c and D colour coyotes this fall as there was no market for them

are some of you guys still reading smoke signals for fur reports....

Tightening and pushing grades equals changing the grade. I have also seen the grades change names. 25 years ago a good marten graded I-II Lot of mine would grade II

When prices came back up in 2006 a good marten would now be called a Select or I. Grade II virtually disappeared. Even got up to Super Select. For the same marten.

In the end the grade is just a name and every trapper gets them and price is the only thing that matters. If I have marten in the first few lots they can call them whatever makes them sell for a profit for me.

P.S. Those were NAFA grades.

When I switched to FHA sizing was much different to my benefit.

The select grade at OTA/FHA was I pt II.
They changed I pt II to select later on-same grade different terminology.

Fur from this area is average quality at best, no comparison to western or northern Canadian fur. The fur market is a train wreck based on valuations and clearances. Don’t think it would be difficult to get multiple no value pelts at FHA in this market for pelts that would normally sell in good market conditions.