Anyone know about Nursing Homes? Problem!!

Mom wants to be discharged and go back home. After seeing and hearing what is REALLY !!! going on in that place; I DON'T BLAME MOM ONE DANG BIT FOR WANTING TO GO BACK HOME! Everyone of Mom's friends says that she does not need to be in there. Well, I spoke to the Social Worker today, and they are having a Family meeting tomorrow Morning for Mom. Mom and I both said that she wants to go home. I told them I want Mom discharged right away. Come to find out , THEY ARE NOT MAKING IT SIMPLE!! They said "it's a process" I then said " if you refuse to discharge Mom when we have both told you she wants to go home, then , you are holding Mom hostage !! "


Is there any way that they can force my Mother to stay in that Nursing Home , and refuse a discharge to her home ? I took care of Mom before she went into the Home, and after seeing how bad that place is, I can definitely do a better job than what they are doing!

If your mom wants to leave, and you want to bring her home, your both adults, dont ask permission just go.

Call the State
File a suit
Ask a Lawyer
Document Everything

If they don't believe its medically advisable to discharge, they can keep a patient there. Sounds like you'll need lawyers involved.

Sadly many nursing homes milk old people for their life savings and social security checks. I believe in free ranging old people, on their own home range, if at all possible.

I hope you can quickly get you mother back with you, where she belongs.

Keith

Tell them to get her out AMA against medical advice. Seems to help

I do not believe they can force her to stay without a court order

You should have a State Ombudsman that is there for patients rights, whistle blowing, etc. Get in touch with them ASAP.

Next, unless your mother has signed over power of attorney or is otherwise under the guardianship of another she is free to leave, now. Of course the facility will say it's against medical advice and make it difficult.

The missus has worked in nursing homes since the age of 14. Well over 30 years now.

They will claim “against medical advise”. They really push it some times but I don’t think they can forcible keep her there.

I have two daughters that work at a assisted living home, not sure about making them stay but I do know that both of my girls care a lot about the people they care for, had a really sad and teary night a coupe nights ago when a resident they were very fond of passed away. I know we all hear about the apple at care homes but there are some care givers who really care and do a good job. I hope you get her home quickly.

Scott

I hope you can get your mom out of that joint.

Get yourself a tablet and document every conversation, whether on the phone or in person, that you have about this situation. Make sure you get who said what, dates, referrals to others, and the times and dates of any phone conversations and with whom.

Develop a care plan that will meet with your Mom's needs, care, and safety when she leaves. Use the language from the care plan that the nursing home must already have in place for her. Your statements and plans will carry a lot more weight if it sounds like you know what you are talking about in their language rather than acting on conjecture or emotion.

Do what Warrior said about the Ombudsman.

I wish you and your Mom my best.

Moosetrot

I agree with Danny. Just go and get her!

I got a Laundry list of issues with that place.

1. One of the Aides got fired because she threatened to punch my Mother in the Nose !! When the Nurse called to tell me what happened between the Nurses Aide and my Mom, that Nurse was really nervous.

2. The food looks like it is barely edible.

3. Some of those Nurses are flat out RUDE!

4. I swear some of those Patients in there are put on some sort of meds. Some of them look and sound all doped up.

5. Clothing that gets "Lost "

6. And the best yet!!! When I WANTED TO LEAVE THAT FLOOR, one Nurse's Aide almost REFUSED TO LET ME LEAVE!! They thought I was one of the Patients , too !!!!!!!!!!!! OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jot down some notes about why you want her out of there. Unsanitary conditions, perceived maltreatment, lack of staff following prescribed programs, dates of your visits when you witnessed things, etc. Also ask about staff/resident ratios and if they have held consistent with state rules. BE VERY SPECIFIC WITH EVERYTHING!

Moosetrot

What warrior said.
Unless someone has a POA for medical care over her,she cannot be kept against her will.

Yep, pack the bags and walk out.


You should have a State Ombudsman that is there for patients rights, whistle blowing, etc. Get in touch with them ASAP.
Good advice

If somebody has POA it will be a fight. the things I suggested will help you in the fight.

Moosetrot

You watch the move called “ I care alot “. it will give you all the answers you will need about keeping people in a nursing home against their will. Get a lawyer and file charges then walk your mom out of the building. I would also request the local sheriff to escort the 3 of you out of the building. Might have to make a small political contribution to his re-election campaign. But it works. Marty

Is Medicare involved? How many daily needs does she require help with?

Can she prepare her food?
Take her meds by herself?
Dress herself
Bathe herself
Enter and exit the bed without assistance
Attend to her toilet needs by herself
Walk unassisted
Use the telephone unassisted
Perform basic housekeeping chores
Is her home on one floor, how many steps are there


These are the items a social worker will consider.

PM sent. Good Luck. Long Term care. Assisted Living Dementia units all have the residents best interest in mind. This is why it is very important for anyone to understand a care plan. Everyone who is admitted has to have a care plan. With Goals and objectives in place. Discharge timeline etc... Weekly updates. Sometimes daily if needed. If you are not getting these things. Then it is time to leave. Every state has an Ombudsman. They are seniors advocates. This should be your first point of contact. They are there to help and the service is free.

I would not suggest taking her out without going thru the proper channels. Unless you want to be arrested. Then you would not be helping your mother. The community is responsible for all residents. You would put yourself as a threat towards the community. You would be escorted out. If you refuse to leave. The local police of sheriffs department would physically remove you. Follow thru. It will all work out.

I did all of Mom's Shopping, Cooking, Laundry, do up the bills for Mom, make the Doctor's appointments. Mom can bathe and dress herself. Gets in and out of Bed without assistance. Reason I did the bills up and the Cooking, is because Mom has Cataracts, and can hardly see. With her bad heart, and her age; Mom is not a candidate for Cataract Surgery.

I worked matenance at one for a few years. Executives made tons of money off the elderly while keeping wages low for the rest. Low wages ment low hiring standards. Many times you had staff that was high taking care of your family member. Turnover for staff was tremendous even before the pandemic. I loved the residents, like having 150 grandparents but couldn't stand upper management. Knowing what was going on I had to leave. You'll never see me in a home as a resident!

IMO, don't delay getting her out of there; they may be stalling you while they try to work some legal shenanigans to more or less get custody. I know they do that with kids, not sure about adults, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Possession is 9/10ths of the law, I think if she is out before they contrive anything you will be home free. I don't trust outfits like that one bit.

Wait a minute here, what’s the rest of this story? Who or how did your mom get put in that institution? Who is paying the cost of her residency? Who is her POA? If no POA who is responsible for her wellfare? If you or your family are not responsible for any of those actions, you’d better see a lawyer because somebody dropped the ball on your mom!!!

x2 -- get her out of there -- get a lawyer ( as distasteful as it is) -- nursing homes are no place for people UNTIL -- the family decides that they can't meet the requirements any longer.

Well we've seen your mugshot!

There is nothing wrong with those Work Horses!!

I went in one once for a look and they had the oldtimers lined up in chairs against the wall feeding them meatballs with slingshots.

I feel like your post got lost somehow...my wife has been in the geriatric care business for longer than she and I have been together. She is solemn, but unfortunately there are those that are not. If your mother is not sound of mind, she needs to have constant care...if you can provide that, then get her home!! Nursing homes aren't ALL bad, and sometimes (I've seen it more than once) the loved one can misinterpret what they have experienced. Our elderly (much like our vets) need to have the best care available! I hope you give extended care a chance, because most of the staff there knows what they are expected to do.

States may very well have differing regs about many aspects of elder care facilities and issues. Having had a mother and mother in law reside in assisted living then elder care and dementia quarters we have dealt with aspects.
Some of the issues the care unit may be faced with is legal as they need to do assessments for many things that may reduce liabilities if released w/o proper assessments etc. Care giving units may well create a series of hoops that may be more then needed or lengthier than needed. If there is medical staff from the unit doing the assessment, you could or should get a 2nd medical opinion if you are not satisfied with the assessment. As stated above getting legal assistance may be needed also. Not surprising that if the units are not full that the providers will find ways to slow down having people leave, especially if they are strictly private and profit based. Even at the very high costs many care giving facilities are money losers. The one my MIL was in changed hands twice in 3 years and was in receivership and transition when she past last January.

Bryce

Im assuming she was admitted into the nursing home after a hospital stay?.possibly for "rehab"?
I worked in nursing homes .for 12 years.

The big issue is insurance.
There are lots of ins and outs but the bottomline is that if you take your mom out of the home without the doctors
Approval, Medicare can and in moat cases will, refuse to pay for any of her treatment since she was admitted because you took her out before she was deemed ready to bw released. Basically they sew it as you're refusing doctor ordered treatment.
Aside from seeing this happen firsthand with residents I cared for..
I was my dads medical POA and had to deal with the same issues.

Here they can keep them for up to 90 days if they can justify the "rehabilitation" guidelines.

My dad was ping-ponged in and out of "rehab" centers
.but they were really just LTCF

Long term care. Facilities.

You need to try to get her doctor to discharge her for home
It may require the purchase of special medical equipment and the hiring of health aide at home or the commitment of y'all...her kids..to provide the care for your mom that the doctor has ordered.
Good
Luck

I can also tell you that not all aides are useless. I took pride in taking care of my residents and treated them like id want my mom and dad or grandparents to be treated in the same situation.
There are some useless aides but don't paint us all with the same brush.
Some.of us are there because we truly care about our residents.
I had many fights with administration over the care and treatments of residents where I worked and some of them weren't even my residents but they weren't being treated exactly right and I definitely raised he'll about it and got aome.of my coworkers wrote up but I didn't care.
I told more than one
. if your just here for the check get a job somewhere else
I got out of the nursing home setting and do private care
.too much BS to deal with in the nursing home setting.

Also..its not just the aides. I had a nurse one time tell me.to take a bandage off a sou d and put a new one on with the current data because she didn't want to clean the ladies wound.
I refused.the nurse said I wasnt a team player and i told her I wasn't being a party to neglect and if she didn't clean the wound I was going to report her.

She cleaned the wound.. The lady had a hole at the base of her tail bone the size of a 50 cent piece
that had to be suctioned out daily and packed with gauze..it literally took 3 feet of gauze to pack the wound.

If youre a good aide you are often ostracized by other employees that just wanna clock in and out and collect a check for doing nothing

You need to be visible
.go everyday..at different times so they're not sure when you're gonna show up
.raise he'll if your moms not being taken care of and I mean raise he'll..they will make sure shes taken care of because they will get tired of dealing with you.
She'll be the first one they get ready for the day

When my dad was in the home I heard them when I came in saying..there's the (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).
I didn't care.

He was only way once..the first time I visited
.

Drs dont like being sued. Go get your Mom.

I've seen numerous long term facilities close because they weren't making money from Medicare/aid. They're in it for the money, not the people. Some employees do care for the residents but not the management.

Cathyrn you hit the nail on the head. Thank you. I home all on this thread read what Cathyrn posted. Not all Senior Care facilities are bad. Most are good. Health care lost 13 percent of its work force during the Covid outbreak. This includes Senior Care

GOOD NEWS !!!!


Had the phone conference meeting this Morning. What a change in tone they had !!!!

Suddenly everything was good on their end !!! They were HAPPY to discharge Mom.!! Sending Mom home on Tuesday , March 29th !!!

You watch the move “ I CARE ALOT “. It is great move and I think based on a true story. MD

From the conversations I've had with various levels of people at our local nursing homes, insurance plays a huge factor in care, sadly!
There are good and bad aides, good and bad nurses... and good and bad local administration. There do exist local administrators that care a great deal. But they don't own the facility and there's a limit to the decisions they can make independently.

Like Gary said, the facilities are in it for the money. It is a business. The income has to at least equal the expenses.
From the financial conversations I've had with administration at two of our three local homes, the consistent thing I'm told is:
Medicare pays different amounts based on the needs of the resident.
The nursing home evaluates the residents to determine their level of care.
A higher level of care creates more expense by added labor hours and more resources for that individual.
The problem comes with the bartering nature of insurance and Medicare being, well, Medicare.
Insurances regularly barter with providers and only pay a percentage of the bill. If the bill is previously inflated so that the final percentage covers the actual cost, great!
But, it seems that, regarding nursing homes, Medicare is aware of the actual cost... and pays a percentage of *that*
The nursing home says - this is the actual cost for this level of care, we need you to actually pay it.
Medicare being what it is simply says, take it or leave it, this is what you're getting.
This leaves the nursing home with few options:
1) Take the loss from Medicare residents and depend on private pay residents to balance the budget and admit new residents based on the percentage of existing Medicare to private pay.
2) Find another financial resource to cover the deficit created by Medicare.
3) When you run out of money and can't pay your bills... close the doors...
4) Give poor care. That is, give the level of care that matches the income received regardless of the needs of the resident.

No idea how much of the budget is allocated to the actual owner or to any administration above the local level, if there is any. But I can't see someone owning a business and contentedly receiving zero profit from it, or worse, taking a loss.

Good Deal.
But please remember there are healthcare qorkwra that truly care and do their best to care for their patients

I lived in a Nebraska town where the Koolaid people lived. They were heavily invested in the hospital which one wing was the long term care. When the long term started losing money there were 22 residents kicked out the door and the place was closed.

Unfortunately it all comes down to money. They make it "a process" to stall things to try to keep someone there to keep the money flowing in. Get a free consultation from a local lawyer first and just go get your mom