shorter shotguns

I had bought a used 870 with a 20 inch slug barrel smooth bore I/C some years back got it used for a good price , used it some for deer hunting my brother used it on more deer than I did , mainly because his gun was so long and this carried so easily I also have a 24 inch slug barrel on my 500 that shoots slugs very nice so I used it , also a lighter gun

it was just darned handy to carry in the woods , but sort of limited with that I/C fixed choke

a little shipping and a trip to Carlson's choke fixed that it is now threaded for Rem-chokes as I feel it should have been all along.

shot deer a few pheasant and rabbits with it , seems a good proof of concept.

a concern going from long barrel shotguns is how much velocity are you giving up . it varies greatly by load but some were around 70-90fps less on some ammo going from 30 to 20 inches working out the % it is about 5-7% change by reducing 33% of your barrel length.

so it becomes a matter of is a 5-7% reduction in energy a big deal

so far I haven't noticed any difference in effect on game the rabbits I shot were nearly all pass through with #4 and the pheasant didn't seem to notice the shorter gun.

I may see about getting a chronograph at some point

last night I ordered up a 20 inch factory barrel from Mossberg so I will have a 28 and a 20 and it would be interesting to see the difference in 2 factory barrels same make same gun , however with the turkey guns out there and people still taking turkey just fine with 20 inch barrels it probably isn't much of a concern.

ability to swing and get on target don't seem to be an issue.

when you think about it a 26 inch barrel OU is really almost the same length to the bead as a 20 inch barrel pump.

I don't have a hunting dog so when we hunt we are the dog maybe that is why I like the shorter setup , also it is easier in and out of the truck

with no regulation to case in WI any more after Nov 2011 I just get in the truck with my gun , if I am the passenger I hold it if I am the driver it rests between the seats (unloaded action open in a vehicle) we have some spots where we can drive slow down lanes and hop out if we see pheasants in the lane (yes legal here) we get out load and stalk up to them. we do this after we have worn ourselves out pushing fields.

the pattern from the 20 inch rem choked barrel and the 28 inch rem choked barrel are indistinguishable using the same choke in each gun from the few side by side comparisons we have done.

With the 500 the new barrel was within a few dollars of what sending it off would have been and about half what a new gun would be

with the 870 I couldn't even find a 20 inch barrel with choke tubes at the time and I had this one and the patterns stunk so anything was an improvement.

buck shot seems to pattern well from the full choke compared to the i/c the full choke I run puts about the same pattern at 35 yards that the I/C did at 10 yards , I have tested buck out to 50 yards and while there are some pellets not where I would like I always have 2-3 within a couple inches of point of aim. hoping to use it calling coyotes some day.
as do the 4,5,6 for bird and rabbit loads.
I also have a turkey choke and have patterned some loads they look good to 40 yards but I haven't had the opportunity to shoot a turkey with it yet.
for slugs I have a rifled slug choke now and it does seem to make them group better


has anyone else tried going to a shorter barrel than 26-30 ?

My mossberg 410 pump is an 18.5" barrel. Had it threaded for invector chokes. I've killed a pile of turkeys and rabbits with it. Great little gun

it was an old police gun being sold by a dealer for the PD , it was filthy and had some finish wear and a missing sight wen I purchased it but this is what it looks like
the stock is built up to line my eye up with the sight then a sleeve to hold some ammo and cover the foam and tape , it works to get me where I need to be on the stock.
it seemed odd the threading cost more than I paid for the gun,

Only thing I don’t like is less pointability. When anyone points at something they extend their arm, full length. It’s inherently more precise. No a few inches prolly don’t mean much and you seem to be hitting!

A gun shop owner once told me modern shotshells are optimized for about 24 in barrels. True? Idk

I bought a Winchester 1300 upland edition when I was a kid. I think it is a 24 inch barrel. The only complaint was from buddies when we were duck hunting about how loud it was. I never noticed it when shooting. Even the guys on the trap range thought I was shooting some hopped up shells till I told them about the short barrel. It has killed countless birds and is nice to carry grouse hunting in thick brush.

My shotguns have 24 in barrels. Years ago I bought a Fox model B (savage) double barrel that had 24 inch barrels. It was a limited run "quail special". I've been hooked on short barrels ever since

Back in the day I've had several barrels cut off to 24+ inches and had tru chokes installed. Now days you have a verity of chokes to pick from

My 870 I use mainly for turkey hunting has a 21 inch barrel. It seems to recoil more than my dad's, with a 28 inch barrel. Other than that, I notice little difference. The short barrel is very handy in blinds, whether pop-up or natural.

The trend in sporting clay, trap, and skeet is toward longer barrels. Seems a 28"OU is considered short now.

I shoot a 28" O/U. It swings better than the shorter guns

looking at the numbers 18, 20 , 26 30 , as you get closer to 30 you keep making smaller and smaller gains in velocity so it wouldn't surprize me if 24 was a sweet spot , Mossberg makes all their slug barrels 24 inches

the SAAMI on non magnum rifle cartridge's are all figured on a 24 inch test barrel while it used to be and may still be that shot shells are calculated on a 30 inch test barrel.

much like most semi auto pistol rounds are done from a 4 inch test barrel relaoding manuals typically specify where what they used for the velocity.

some carbine rounds like 300 blackout are SAAMI on a 16 inch barrel it is all what the original designers send it off for testing with.

in looking for velocity info there were several that put it between 4 and 7 fps per inch , I think it is more of a non linear thing probably loose very little between 30 and 26 then a little more per inch between 26 and 22 then a little more per inch as you go shorter yet

one fo the best videos I could find was a guy who had a pile of shotguns all the way down to about 8 inches some were NFA items h didn't have a 30
he used the same bird shot , buck shot and slugs
I think federal 7.5 bird shot , estate 00 buck and Federal true ball slugs
bird buck slug
36 " 1195 1395 1662

26 1143 1317 1570

21.5 1092 1304 1563

19 1081 1277 1529

18 1094 1294 1549

14 1034 1255 1444

these were 5 shot averaged velocities and some of the shot to shot differences were 40-50 fps and it definitely seems the specific barrel matters to get absolutely true numbers you would probably need to get a a barrel and start cutting it down so only the length changed as have been done in some of the best rifle velocity tests.

if you ask me a 8-10 inch shorter barrel in the field is worth the that drop in velocity I think so and the person who did the video took it a step further and calculated foot pounds energy with the rounds and buck and slug for 26-18 inch were basically statistically insignificant the difference was 2390 to 2330 60fpe , when you start with 2300 what the 3rd and 4th digits are really don't make a difference. 2300 was plenty to get it done

the 20 inch pump and the 28 O/U are nearly the same length

on stationary targets shorter guns give better target acquisition easier to stop the inertia of a moving gun when it is closer to you than when the weight is farther away.

on targets like a clay crossing it probably isn't much of a change but when you stop on a target squeeze off a round and move to the next target it does make a difference

it is also possible when your talking multi projectile you may just break the trigger as you get to the target I know many of the USPSA PCC shooters as the dot in their sight breaks the edge of the target are pulling the trigger 2 fast hits on paper being scored better than a-zone hits shot slower. it's is all in how they choose to game the game even in single projectile.

Picked up a police 870 wingmaster about 30 years ago. Not sure if it has a 18 or 20" barrel. It came with a cylinder bore and I had it tapped for choke tubes. Adding a mag extension gives an 8 shot capacity - which helps it swing better - (have to plug it for dove & ducks). I enjoy carrying an O/U. But after hunting pheasants, quail, dove, ducks, turkeys, and coyotes for many years, if I really want to be proficient at taking game...the 870 "Rooster Booster" is what I use. It is incredibly quick to get on target. It started out with a nice shiny finish. After the finish wore off and got a lot of "field character" I gave it a rattle can paint job.
A short gun is also a lot more effective than you think at a distance with the right choke tubes.

Short gun with a sling is also fantastic for a coyote gun …easy to carry with a rifle also. I use OO buck calling or chasing them with trucks.

My mossberg 535 has a 24 in. with a turkey choke patterns beautifully with # 5 shot at ranges farther then I should be shooting its not much over 5lbs. so shooting heavy loads is noticable but I carry it more then i shoot it Balances nice but it is a pump sxs or o/u mite be a little whippy Tried buckshot in it just for kicks cause of what I heard about tite chokes 41 pellets of #4 buck will disintegrate half a fox at 40 yds. at 50 just make it unusable never shot a coyote

Most doubles are going to be a minimum of twenty-six inches. Factory twenty-six inch barrels on a vintage upland gun will almost always command a higher price over the longer barrels.

I have two Stoeger's, a 12 ga SxS and 28 ga O/U both with 26" barrels. I really like the oal of both and I can miss equally well with either.

yep i primarily use 30" on clay guns with one 32" 20 gauge. my pigeon gun has 31.5" bbls.

GreenCountyPete--velocity perhaps means more for down range energy/penetration on targets with slugs, buckshot. Guess it does come into play on live birds like ducks etc but overall I doubt 50-75fps means alot unless you are playing right out at the very edge of effective range. and even then putting enough pellets on target likely means just as much as velocity on impact. reality is effective scatter gun range is greater than the ability of many of us to put the pattern on the target at that range

It takes a pretty awful experienced wingshot to be able to concentrate enough to get to a point where you can slow moving targets enough to see the mere inches of differences in forward lead that are impacted with varying/higher velocity rounds so i dont think you lose anything going with shorter bbls. eventhough my guns tend to long side i like short 26" barrels in tight cover such as grouse in brush or woodies in standing timber where getting the gun moving immediately is crucial. i can shoot a short bbl much easier in those conditions than a long one. but the opposite comes into play when the targets become complicated with multiple lines and long distances. i might hit with short bbl but itll be much more sporadic. long bbls smooth out swing and improve the visual picture for me in those type of conditions.

It all depends on what I'm doing. In the field I prefer a shorter barrel. To the extreme I have single shot H&R that I cut the barrel down to 18" and took a couple inches of the stock. It will breakdown and fit in a backpack.Itfits good in a spot in my sxs. Ive killed a deer and a turkey with it.
If i want to shoot fast give me a long barrel. My 3 gun shotgun has 28" barrel and a 30 inch tube. I can run 0.20 splits all on target. I can't do that with my shorter guns.

Some spend alot of time and effort honing their missing skill I was a born "Natural"

very nice gun, I like the rattle can camo job

I have the OEM Rem mag tube extension to take it to 8 rounds , I find it more weight than I like to lug around most of the time int he field walking, I will be putting it on for 3 gun this summer it may stay on if I get used to it.

the 20" barrel has room for the +3 mag tube to take it to 7+1 the 18" only has room for the +2 mage tube 6+1

want to talk about crazy we have a +8 Nordic tube for an 870 my son runs in 3 gun makes it a 12+1 shotgun it sticks out past the 28 inch barrel a few inches. try finding a case to fit that.

I know pump guns are not the norm in 3-gun or rather USPSA multi-gun similar to 3-gun but USPSA. we are probably the most budget multi gun shooters I have seen , it is great practice but my truck costs less than some guys shotguns.

in our class you can only pre-load 10 but I found a deal on the +8 round so I went with it

We had trap tonight , I don't get to shoot often at trap it is for the kids , but we were early and got setup with time to spare so I got a quick round in . shot a 23 missed the first bird and one in the middle that went left I was a touch ahead of it and backed off on the lead and broke the rest.

the long barrel is definitly more forgiving than the short barrels

what re you running for your 3 gun Rig?

Stoeger M3K. Poor man's Benelli

A shotgun has a full powder burn in 16" That's why the test data showed the 18" with optimal performance. The only thing a longer barrel gives you is a longer sight plain and better balance that's why longer barrels are used for wing shooting and clays and so forth. I have several rifled slug guns in the 20" area and the longest turkey gun has a 24". I have many with 28" barrels and I prefer them for wing shooting. All my short barrel shotguns have some type of sights on them mostly reflex type which takes care of the sight plain issue.

nice , I have my eye on that new 940 Jm pro , but I don't see it happening this year.

Thirty years ago Remington made a special upland model 1100 with a 21” barrel with Remchoke tubes and nice bluing and nice wood. I bought a barrel as an extra for my 1100 3” magnum. No problems with different loads. Makes a nice pheasant gun.

An even better pheasant gun is the Ruger Red Label over under with 28” barrels. Very nimble.

For waterfowl, I prefer the 1980s 1100 3” magnum with the 28” barrel, or the 1930s Winchester Model 12 3” magnum heavy duck gun, or the ugly Beretta Extrema 3.5” with 28” barrel.

That 940 looks pretty nice. I don't hear near the reliability complaints that I did with the 930.
My only hesitation is the receiver doesn't look to have enough meat in front of the loading port to allow me to open it up like I like to for quad loading. If you aren't quad loading (or just better at it than me) then the 940 is a pretty slick set up.

Remember reading the only loss of performance was the shorter amount of the barrel in a Turkey gun article.

I am just getting started so no quad loading yet

my other thought is the 940 tactical they just cam out with as a sort of all around gun use it for everything and don't worry about being slow in 3gun since it is just for practice for me.

in USPSA I am happy to just run middle of the pack in limited and run each stage reasonably clean I am the only person I am really competing with , I have no deletions of grandeur

Barrel arrived

not sure how it shoots , test that Friday.

but it sure carries easy.

I always liked the way a longer barrel points and swings but back in KS i used to hunt quail with a guy who had and antique Petro Beretta with 24 in barrels and just about the time I would get a bead on a quail he would knock it down. A couple times I would switch to a 2nd bird and he dusted it too. I called him everything but a Caucasian

did well with the rifle sights and a full choke on the 870 last week , we will see how this one does Friday.

I can see where long swings nice

I am hoping short also means fast , I think practice is more likely to mean fast

when I was getting my son ready for his first 3 gun match I would take a stack of clay in my hand and start Frisbeeing them as fast as I could.
it get interesting when you get past how many shells were in the gun , you have to get real fast feeding

well I like it

took a touch of getting used to how light it was if you don't keep swinging the weight of it does nothing to keep you swinging

shot a 20 in the dark and wind after the kids had shot.

my son shot a round and shot a 23 , before I got a chance to try it.
patterns decent at 35 yards

Cool! Maybe I will try that out if my buddy passes on his O/U to me in his will

What slugs are you shooting out of it?

my go to slug is 2 3/4 Winchester Super X 1 oz I haven't shot any out of this barrel yet

I had some lower velocity s&B slugs I tried 3 they are ok at short range and being slower velocity and I was shooting a full choke , I don;t intend to shoot slugs from a full every day but wanted to know how they hit should I need to quick switch to a slug

buck shot patterns decent from the one round I tried

I'd like an original stagecoach gun.

Or the one Doc Holiday used.

not original but some very shoot-able replicas are being made now , Stoger and CZ each have one

played around at the range a little today after the kids shoot , ran some steel plates and it is very fast on transitions and getting on target really the only issue is rounds go so fast it seems to be empty a lot

i can imagine as your bouncing a long on a coach that a quick sing and pull was about ideal for shooting from a moving coach

Got out with this 500 yesterday to chase pheasants , this is my first real time with the new 20 inch barrel on it besides clay this spring. I also added a oversize safety I had bought a while back ,
she is a dream to carry all afternoon , swings good and very fast on target I limited on birds
all of our birds came in the woods yesterday they were calling back and forth so we stalked them in the woods not much time on those once they flew both fell instantly

Yes bansners modified my 870, the guy told me it only needed to be 21" long

This is slightly off topic but my brother had a Ruger M77 IN .308 caliber It was their ultra light model It had a 18 or 20 inch barrel that was like a pencil Even with a 2.5 x8 scope the thing was so sweet to carry .And he killed a lot of deer with that rifle .At the same time I was carrying a similar model M77 in 25.06 caliber It had a 24 inch barrel with open sights on it And it was fitted with a Bushnell 4x12 scope . I really liked how it shot but it was a bugger carrying it in the brush And it was not much better when I was in a tree stand . A light quick handling gun will make up for any slight loss of bullet velocity most of the time because the shooter will be able to get on the target and get a god shot .

most of our hunting is rather short range can't think of a deer I ever shot over 150 yards with most under 80 yards getting on them fast at the short range is definitely key.
I am sure it changes with terrain , ours isn't suited for seeing far unless it is a hay field.